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11 Apr 07 - 08:03 AM (#2022058) Subject: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,Ignoramus I think some of the 15 British sailors should be charged with cowardice in the face of the enemy. They collapsed faster that an MFI chest of drawers when capture by the Iranians. |
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11 Apr 07 - 08:09 AM (#2022064) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Charley Noble What's a "MFI chest of drawers"? Charley Noble |
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11 Apr 07 - 08:10 AM (#2022066) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: curmudgeon This is BS on every level. Please move appropriately. Thanks. |
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11 Apr 07 - 08:12 AM (#2022070) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: manitas_at_work How on earth were they expected to resist? I thought that they were unarmed. |
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11 Apr 07 - 08:28 AM (#2022080) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Midchuck It would make more sense for military personel who are at risk of being taken prisoner and put under duress, to be told to go ahead and confess to anything their captors want them to; and for the fact that they had been so ordered to be widely publicized. Also, if we don't want other nations to use threats or torture to make out people confess to whatever, we could start by ceasing to do so ourselves. Just a thought. Peter |
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11 Apr 07 - 08:31 AM (#2022084) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: artbrooks Troll alert |
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11 Apr 07 - 08:48 AM (#2022089) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: John MacKenzie Art, I see no trollery, or do you not know about extraordinary rendition? G |
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11 Apr 07 - 09:18 AM (#2022120) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Mrrzy Actually, not fighting back showed tremendous courage. I don't think the Americans could have done it. So, my answer is, No. |
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11 Apr 07 - 09:20 AM (#2022122) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: skipy Go & boil you head you pratt! Skipy |
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11 Apr 07 - 09:23 AM (#2022127) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Sorcha Looking to start an argument here? Sorry, but no. Some of them were just children. |
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11 Apr 07 - 09:34 AM (#2022137) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Bee Appropriately named guest, how refreshing! |
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11 Apr 07 - 09:58 AM (#2022160) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: bubblyrat Of course they should NOT be charged !! They were the sad victims of the incompetence and ineptitude ,not to mention political cowardice, that is typical of any Labour ( Socialist, with strong Communist sympathies ) government , that our poor country has had to endure over the last 50 years.Why people continue to vote for these traitors, I have never understood. Perhaps now that the entire population of the world has seen what a toothless tiger our "armed " forces have collectively become, some country, somewhere , will be kind enough to launch a full-scale military invasion of Great Britain, so that what passes for a government MIGHT wake up and give our forces the weapons, equipment,manpower and support services, not to mention the skilled, daring, resourceful,and yes, courageous, leadership, that they so signally lack in these troubled and politically correct times. God Save The Queen !! |
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11 Apr 07 - 10:14 AM (#2022174) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: skipy DON'T THE TROLL! I with you all the way Bubbly Skipy |
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11 Apr 07 - 10:19 AM (#2022177) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: guitar No I do not think that they should charged because they were captured, so they SHOULDN'T BE CHARGED |
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11 Apr 07 - 10:21 AM (#2022179) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: guitar It takes courage not to fight and they were heroes and heroines to me. So they are not Cowards at all, the real cowrads are the world learders and the members of their parties they are real cowards. if you start a fight don't get someone else to do the dirty work. Tom |
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11 Apr 07 - 10:27 AM (#2022186) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: beardedbruce If they were following their ROE, ther is NO reason to charge them. If not, it becomes the officers' determination- THEY might be brought before a military hearing to determine if they acted properly, but the enlisted are required to follow the officers' legal orders. |
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11 Apr 07 - 10:49 AM (#2022211) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Jean(eanjay) I've never heard such a ridiculous suggestion. I'm with bubblyrat. |
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11 Apr 07 - 11:20 AM (#2022240) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Georgiansilver GUEST I am not at all surprised you chose the name Ignoramus...it certainly suits you!!!!!!!! |
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11 Apr 07 - 11:22 AM (#2022241) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Jean(eanjay) I think someone is just bored today. The name chosen tells us that they don't actually believe it themselves. |
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11 Apr 07 - 01:36 PM (#2022370) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,Ignoramus MFI is the British equivalent of IKEA. The sailors could have allowed themselves to be tortured just a little to spare their blushes. Look at the tortures James Bond (a Navy man himself) has had to endure for his country. The navy is getting really wimpy now - the senoir citizens' service, more like. {translation for foreign readers: The Royal Navy is known as the "Senior Service"}. Squaddies get the job done; the RAF would have swallowed cyanide capsules. The Jack Tars let the nation and Tony Blair down - especially his wife Cherry. |
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11 Apr 07 - 01:41 PM (#2022381) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Amos You are a piece of work, Igno. Are you so in love with cataclysm and destruction that you would have everybody dive in and pursue it at any cost? Methinks that is a truly idiotic -- not to say psychopathic -- impulse. As there was no state of war declared between the two nations, would you have enjoyed seeing these 14 men and 1 woman start one up? How many deaths would like to see caused in your tumult of unreason? A |
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11 Apr 07 - 01:43 PM (#2022384) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,Nelson I object! |
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11 Apr 07 - 01:45 PM (#2022386) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Charley Noble IKEA does a fairly good job of designing their easy to assemble furniture. Is MFI that different? I assumed that the British marines were armed with something more powerful than "super soakers" but probably no match for the heavy machine guns that the Iranians were said to have mounter on their boats. I really prefer the other thread on this topic. This one should be combined with it or deleted. Charley Noble |
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11 Apr 07 - 01:54 PM (#2022398) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,Ignoramus Nice one Amos! £100,000 for the story of how they shamed themselves, their Navy and their country - that's psychotic! Bring back the 'Cat'{Trans: Cat-o'-nine-tails; a whip used to punish miscreant sailors}. Keel-hauling's too good for them! |
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11 Apr 07 - 02:06 PM (#2022410) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: curmudgeon This is the clearest case of trolling I've seen in a long time. Will some joeclone please put it out of our misery -- Tom |
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11 Apr 07 - 02:32 PM (#2022437) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,Admiral Ballcoot Get this damn nonsense removed , all our service people are the bravest of the brave and do not crave a reward for keeping the world under our tender care, Iraq is peaceful and quiet now, thanks to our gallant forces. |
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11 Apr 07 - 02:38 PM (#2022443) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: dianavan he said, she said. I wanna see the scars and bruises. |
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11 Apr 07 - 02:41 PM (#2022445) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Peace Proof positive that Guests should not have the right to start threads in the BS section. |
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11 Apr 07 - 03:55 PM (#2022510) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Don Firth "Look at the tortures James Bond (a Navy man himself) has had to endure for his country." I presume this whole thread is some sort of leg-pull, but just in case it isn't, Iggy, James Bond is a fictional character. That means he's a figment of Ian Fleming's imagination. Have you ever had your goolies worked over with a carpet-beater? Or just your head? Don Firth |
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11 Apr 07 - 05:17 PM (#2022580) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: skipy Stop feeding him! he is sat at home laughing at ALL of us! I will buy any of the 15 a beer or three anytime, they can even borrow my dresses! I am sure on the day that the chips are down & they will not rashly start the 3rd world war they will serve us well & fill body bags if they need to! NOW STOP FEEDING THE PRICK! Skipy |
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11 Apr 07 - 06:57 PM (#2022656) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,Ignoramus Tut, tut, Skip your kind words on behalf of our sailors gladdens my heart. You've shown me the error of my ways - I now retract all the things I said about our noble Quislings. PS. You say you're going to buy them all a drink - they're a lucky lot: free Iranian goody bags, £100,000 in readies and a drink from a pal. Well done! I admire your altruism. Keep up the good show! |
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11 Apr 07 - 07:01 PM (#2022660) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: skipy Sorry TROLL, not going to feed you, Skipy |
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11 Apr 07 - 07:23 PM (#2022679) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Peace Classy, Skipy. Good one. |
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11 Apr 07 - 07:38 PM (#2022689) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,Nelson I agree! |
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11 Apr 07 - 07:39 PM (#2022690) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: McGrath of Harlow Let's talk about flat pack furniture instead. IKEA is pretty good. MFI isn't - the range of stuff they have is very limited, overpriced, badly designed, hard to assemble, and they don't even have most of their stuff in stock. I suppose that was what the aptly named ignoramus meant by saying "MFI is the British equivalent of IKEA." |
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12 Apr 07 - 01:22 AM (#2022881) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: dianavan IKEA is good if you have to set-up in a hurry but it doesn't hold up over time like real furniture. |
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12 Apr 07 - 04:22 AM (#2022930) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Jean(eanjay) I didn't realise MFI was still going - I might seek out my nearest one and go have a look. |
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12 Apr 07 - 05:11 AM (#2022952) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Jack Campin I have seen nothing in any media to say what they were actually up to. Presumably some sort of sabotage mission. They had a lucky choice of captors not to get shot out of hand. |
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12 Apr 07 - 08:21 AM (#2023033) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST The essence of all decocracy is its ability to olerate the absurd. If democracy demands that differing voices, no matter how objectionable, be removed, Then we have lost the right to call it democracy and must define it by another name. It is that call to expunge the offensive that often makes the views expressed here seem narrow and parochial. Be careful what ou wish for at the mudcat. To disallow disagreement is a an odious trait. PS I expect this post to disappear. |
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12 Apr 07 - 08:45 AM (#2023052) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Don(Wyziwyg)T "PS I expect this post to disappear." It didn't tho', did it Guest, and that was because the language used was NOT offensive, and neither was the content. Ignoramous, however, seems incapable of expressing his/her opinion without resorting to the use of highly offensive and emotive terms, which tends to a) Lower the tone of the discussion to the verbal slanging match level (which one must suspect was the intention), and b) Destroy any credibility which his/her opinion might otherwise have had. Free speech, I believe relates to the content of the statement, but not to the abysmal choice of terminology. Don T. |
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12 Apr 07 - 09:11 AM (#2023078) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,Shimrod Of course they should have sacrificed themselves. It would have made a fine spectacle of futile gallantry! I suspect that a quick death may have been preferable to being used as a pawn in a propaganda war between two bunches of devious and ruthless bastards (or, in our case, devious, ruthless, indecisive and muddled bastards)! |
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12 Apr 07 - 09:45 AM (#2023107) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Big Phil Our 15 did the UK no favours by their actions. The payment recieved should be given to some sea charity, lifeboats perhaps..... |
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12 Apr 07 - 09:50 AM (#2023114) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Jean(eanjay) It did all go a bit sour with the selling of stories. |
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12 Apr 07 - 12:10 PM (#2023257) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,Ignoramus Hi, Don Firth! "James Bond is a figment of Ian Fleming's imagination" - I should coco! Next you'll be telling me that WMD were a figment of Tony Blair's and his lovely wife Cherry's joint imaginations. Although ... Maybe Tone thought that the Iraqis had MFI - his hearing's not so good, you know. And this could make all the difference, don't you think? |
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13 Apr 07 - 07:42 AM (#2024020) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,Ignoramus I started this thread as a bit of a lark. I thought people using this site were also having a lark. I can't believe that they are not. Skipy - get a life! You really are a bigot - I thought it was just a leg pull. See ya! |
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13 Apr 07 - 01:34 PM (#2024352) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Keith A of Hertford Jack Campin, you say you have seen nothing in the Media about what they were doing. You can only have been deliberately avoiding it if you are Brit. Is there really nothing in US media? Here is some BBC stuff.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/6502805.stm |
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13 Apr 07 - 06:42 PM (#2024674) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: skipy I started this thread as a bit of a lark! Well you said it all there! "A bit of a lark!" 15 of our brave, facing death or imprisonment, well thats a bit of a lark! yeh right. Skipy - get a life! O/k, I spent 25 years in the military, so you pick the time & the place & we'll meet, last man standing reports back to mudcat! Skipy |
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15 Apr 07 - 04:24 AM (#2025778) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: dianavan I haven't been able to find their stories as printed in the Sun or the Daily Mirror. Is it true that Seaman Batchelor cried himself to sleep after the Iranians called him Mr. Bean? Apparently he also complained that they took his ipod. Is this a joke? I'm glad that the worst they seemed to endure was solitary confinement. Much better than having holes drilled in your feet. |
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15 Apr 07 - 05:10 AM (#2025803) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Strollin' Johnny Some people really are pieces of work. |
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15 Apr 07 - 05:32 AM (#2025809) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: guitar I have a friend and his father was a man called Wilie Bond and he had two sons and daugter the sons are George Bond and James bond. So James bond lives in Saltcoats, just down the road from me and him and me went to school together, anyway what has this got to do with these saliors. |
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15 Apr 07 - 07:17 AM (#2025853) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,meself "Is it true that Seaman Batchelor cried himself to sleep ... " So what if it were true? So the guy's not some man-of-steel great war hero - so what? |
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15 Apr 07 - 07:25 AM (#2025858) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Strollin' Johnny "Is it true that Seaman Batchelor cried himself to sleep after the Iranians called him Mr. Bean? Apparently he also complained that they took his ipod. Is this a joke?" Was it treated as a joke when a thread was started by a miserable whinger who moaned and begged for everyone's sympathy because a kid kicked them on the knee? Far from it, I recollect that sympathy was given in bucketloads. Words like 'Glasshouses' and 'stones' spring to mind. |
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15 Apr 07 - 02:23 PM (#2026060) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: dianavan I am just surprised that was all they had to say. Was there more to it? Is this the 'story' they were paid to tell? Of course, men cry, but they don't usually sell the story to a newspaper. I also think its funny that being called "Mr Bean" is the closest thing to torture that he seemed to have experienced. It seems hard to believe. Can this be true? Please give me more of the details. I don't have access to the English papers and I can't find the actual interviews on the net. |
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15 Apr 07 - 02:45 PM (#2026070) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Jean(eanjay) The decision to let them sell their stories was wrong. However that decision was not the sailors' fault. The stories clearly did not warrant the payouts but that does not in any way lessen the stress that those sailors suffered or the worry that their families had. You do not have to be tortured to suffer. My view has always been that it was not appropriate to sell those stories. I also commented on another thread that if I had lost a loved one in Iraq then the selling of the stories would have sickened me. Other people's feelings should have been considered before this decision was taken and that does not appear to have happened. |
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15 Apr 07 - 02:51 PM (#2026073) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Jean(eanjay) I started this thread as a bit of a lark. I thought people using this site were also having a lark. I wasn't "having a lark" when I posted to this thread. It just isn't funny. |
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15 Apr 07 - 03:08 PM (#2026085) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: dianavan I agree, eanjay, that they probably suffered alot of anxiety and uncertainty. I also agree that it was probably very hard for their parents and for the parents of those whose children had sacrificed their lives. It was a very poor decision to allow their stories to be told. When I first heard about it, I expected that their stories would be propaganda and that the government would play a censorship role in what was actually published. I even thought that the stories might be scripted. I didn't expect that they would be so foolish as to say anything that would embarrass the military or their government. How awful. How really disgusting to think that the Iranians and most of the world are laughing at this lack of common sense and utter lack of pride. Is this what the British military is made of? I hope not. What were they thinking? |
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15 Apr 07 - 03:14 PM (#2026089) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Jean(eanjay) Dianavan, it was a very poor decision to allow their stories to be told. I hope that it doesn't reflect on the British military because I think our forces are great. It should reflect on the British government and big changes are needed there. |
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16 Apr 07 - 01:00 PM (#2026996) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,JED Maybe Des Browne is the man to be charged for allowing 2 of them to capitalise on their capture. What of the other 13 surely the government should now offer the reported £150 000 the pair received, to the others. I notice that this thread was posted well after the service personnel were home safe and had 'kissed and told'. Ignoramous is entitled to satirise this event. If these two people out of 15 want the public gaze then they should be prepared for public disapproval. |
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16 Apr 07 - 01:16 PM (#2027015) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Jean(eanjay) Guest, Jed - I think it was the way it reflected on the British Forces that concerned people. I, for one, lost some sympathy with those selling the stories. Also, it was unfair because some of the hostages were given a higher profile than others and so they managed to get their stories in before the ban. The whole thing has been totally unsatisfactory and now Des Browne has told us all that it took him a whole weekend to realise the decision was wrong! |
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16 Apr 07 - 01:24 PM (#2027025) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: Jean(eanjay) Also, if he had satirised Des Browne and selling the stories that would not have been as bad as should be charged with cowardice in the face of the enemy .... that really is not on. |
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16 Apr 07 - 03:44 PM (#2027149) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,JED Agreed eanjay. But 'the blood in the eye' approach got me thinking, otherwise I would have 'let it slide'. now I've listened to the debate in Commons today with some interest. |
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16 Apr 07 - 04:50 PM (#2027224) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,Tunesmith I was surprised at how fast they "folded". Maybe, my thinking is influenced by those old war movies. John Wayne, for example, would have just given the Iranians his rank and army number, and then told them to sod off! I was surprised that the British press didn't turn on them. |
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16 Apr 07 - 04:55 PM (#2027228) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,meself Remember: John Wayne was just an actor - who stayed home for the big show ... |
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16 Apr 07 - 08:18 PM (#2027382) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: heric Rowan Atkinson wouldna cried neither. |
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17 Apr 07 - 01:56 AM (#2027538) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: dianavan Thats very sick, heric. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Iranians would use Mr. Bean to humiliate the enemy. There's something Monty Python about the whole scene. You're right, though, Rowan Atkinson would still be wondering what happened to the ipod. |
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17 Apr 07 - 10:06 AM (#2027786) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: heric Rowan Atkinson should name his next film "They Call Me Mr. Bean." |
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17 Apr 07 - 11:06 AM (#2027833) Subject: RE: Should the 15 British sailors be charged From: GUEST,JED At the end of JFK, Jim Garrison (Kevin Costner) says to the jury - 'the question should not be who shot the President, but why?'. The unfortunate serviceman and woman are being deliberately used as a smokescreen for something. Des Browne should come clean, then resign. |