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02 Apr 99 - 05:48 PM (#67668) Subject: Bells of Rhymney From: Derek Woolley Hi, can anyone shed light on what was the inspiration for this song? Was it the Aberfan disaster or the decline of the mining industry in wales? Thanks Derek Woolley |
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03 Apr 99 - 10:36 AM (#67845) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Dr John No, earlier than both these. Pete Seeger says in the book of the same title: "Idris Davies, a coal miner in South Wales, was a friend of Dylan Thomas. I came across this poem reprinted in one of Thomas's essays. After the failure of the general strike of 1926, Idris Davies determined to leave coal mining. He studied nights for four years, and finally passed his examinations to Nottingham University. After graduation he became a school teacher in London and published three slim volumes of poetry. "Rhymney is a typical mining town: one hundred yards wide and two miles long..." The music to this poem is by Pete Seeger. His description of a Welsh mining town is spot on, by the way. |
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03 Apr 99 - 04:37 PM (#67884) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Derek Woolley Many Thanks Dr John, I'll try and find the book. Only been to a Welsh mining town once, Can't remeber too much apart from being intoduced to Brains S.A. Derek |
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03 Apr 99 - 07:56 PM (#67935) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: murray@mpce.mq.edu.au I thought there was a song/nursery rhyme to the same tune called "The Bells" or something like that. It starts: Oranges and Lemmons, say the bells of St. Clemments. and that "Bells of Rhymney" was a parody of that with socio/political content. Murray |
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04 Apr 99 - 08:15 AM (#68036) Subject: Lyr Add: ORANGES AND LEMONS From: Dr John Yes, the poem then song is based on that - converstion between the bells of various London churches and other places. It was a playground game, now mostly gone. The "chopper" caught the child who arrived under the arch made by two children at the last line. It's called "Oranges and Lemons":- ORANGES AND LEMONS Gay go up and gay go down, To ring the bells of London Town. "Bull's eyes and targets", say the bells of St. Margarets. "Brickbats and tiles", say the bells of St Giles. "Oranges and Lemons", says the bells of St Clements. "Pancakes and fritters," say the bells of St Peters "Two sticks and an apple," say the bells at Whitechaple. "Old Father Baldplate", say the slow bells at Aldgate. "Maids in white aprons," say the bells of St Catherine's. "Pokers and tongs," say the bells at St John's. "Kettles and pans," say the bells at St Anne's. "You owe me five far'things," say the bells at St Martin's "When will you pay me", say the bells at Old Bailey. "When I grow rich", say the bells at Shoreditch. "When will that be," sat the bells at Stepney. "I'm sure I don't know", says the great bell at Bow. Here comes a candle to light you to bed, Here comes a chopper to chop off your head! |
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04 Apr 99 - 09:39 PM (#68137) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Bev and Jerry Derek After you're introduced to Brains S.A. you ususally don't remember much. We were told that S.A. stands for Skull Attack. |
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04 Apr 99 - 10:09 PM (#68143) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: murray@mpce.mq.edu.au Thanks Dr. John. After I made my posting, I began to try to recall the rest of the rhyme, and you have probably saved me a night's sleep. I forgot the "chopper" part was from that game. Murray |
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02 May 99 - 07:54 PM (#75150) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca There was a thread on this earlier. |
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03 May 99 - 10:40 AM (#75290) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Pete peterson I have loved Bells of Rhymney for just about 40 years now having first heard it on Pete Seeger's Folkways record-- his 1957 Carnegie Hall concert with Sonny Terry. He re-recorded it on Vanguard's Folk Music at Newport 1959, volume 1 and had greatly complicated the guitar accompaniment. A friend of mine, knowing my fascination with the song, once travelled all through Wales (he had traveled through Britain and most parts of Wales) sendine me postcards from each of the towns. . . does anyone besides me make the connection with 1984 and Winston Smith's befuddled attempt to remember the first four lines of the Oranges and Lemons rhyme? PETE |
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04 May 99 - 04:53 AM (#75493) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Steve Parkes Is it "Rimney" or "Rumney"? They talk funny in South Wales. As compared with North Wales, that is ... Steve |
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04 May 99 - 03:45 PM (#75592) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: skw@worldmusic.de Steve, do you mean the pronunciation? It's closer to 'Rumney', with an open u (sort of Scottish ...). - Susanne |
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04 May 99 - 11:18 PM (#75677) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: bseed(charleskratz) Here Comes a Candle was the title of a horror novel by Fredrik Brown--a serial murder, traumatized by an experience linked to that song--chops off the heads of a few people. I must have read it at least 40 years ago, and I don't remember much more about it. --seed |
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05 May 99 - 02:38 AM (#75709) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Murray on Saltspring Susanne is right--Welsh Y in other than final syllables is pronounced like a short U, as in "rum", rather than as in -- what, the last sound of "rummy" maybe. |
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05 May 99 - 03:29 AM (#75715) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Steve Parkes I can pronounce North Welsh words reasonably well (I think!), but I know there are differences in South Wales (and Argentina!) but I don't know what they are, since I've not spent much time down there. Maybe we can start a new thread in Welsh lessons? The "Oranges and Lemons" rhyme is a bit different from the "classical" version I learned as a kid. I've never come across another version before. Steve |
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08 Nov 01 - 12:15 PM (#588287) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,Kevin Morgan Wow! A discussion on the net about Rhymney? Oh my God, I've lived here all my life (just 1 mile away in a neighbouring village)... and yeah, the pronunciation is rum-knee. I'm having trouble figuring out why people visit this place! It's... boring and there's nothing to see or do! Anyway... take care all, Kevin Morgan |
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08 Nov 01 - 03:00 PM (#588454) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: wildlone I have been to Rhymney in my travels, very little has changed except the pits are now gone. BTW Wales has some of the best biking roads in the UK. dave |
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08 Nov 01 - 04:38 PM (#588508) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Gareth oh I don't know, Kevin, not many people can say they visited Sodom and Gomorrah, bowdlerised by the Rhymney Railway into Pontlottyn (Tr Lotts Bridge) Gareth from Ystrad Mynach |
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28 May 02 - 05:19 PM (#719022) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,Maripryssmith@aol.com Hi everybody Interesting to hear about what you've all got to say about Rymni (the proper Welsh speaking way of writing it). I stumbled on this conversation on the web one drunken night when my husband and I were having an argument about the rock group 'The Alarm' They sing on a b-side cd 'The bells of Rhymney' (eventhough it sounds like Rimni) and didn't know who wrote it. So, I decided to come on the web to find out and I was right - it was Idris Davies. Kevin Morgan - is it that bad there ? coz the song is about the crime that was in South Wales during the industrial revolution - maybe it's still there !! Rymni fo am byth Mari XXX |
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28 May 02 - 06:11 PM (#719045) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Joe_F "Oranges & Lemons" is in the database (somewhat corrupted) & in quite a number of threads. |
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28 May 02 - 08:51 PM (#719136) Subject: The Bells of Kabul From: Suffet THE BELLS OF KABUL Tune: The Bells of Rhymney by Pete Seeger (words by Idris Davies) New words: Stephen L. Suffet (with some encouragement and constructive criticism from Pete Seeger) © 2002 "Twenty years of Hell!" Cry the sad bells of Kabul. "Oppression and war!" Scream the bells of Kanduhar. "Did we win? Did we lose?" Ask the broken bells of Kanduz. "May God grant us peace," Pray the bells of Mazar-i-Shareef. [Repeat last couplet ad lib.] If all goes according to plan, these lyrics should appear in Pete's next edition of Where Have All the Flowers Gone? --- Steve |
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29 May 02 - 04:25 AM (#719307) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Nigel Parsons Maripryssmith: Surely the 'welshified' spelling should be Rhymni as the initial letter is Rh. Of course, this would seldom be heard in Welsh, even amongst fluent speakers, because the name is often subjected to the soft mutation, which drops the h, making your version right, but only in those contexts. Using a Welsh name in an English language song it is difficult to justify the mutation. Hwyl dda (Cheers) Nigel |
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29 May 02 - 05:02 AM (#719320) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: sian, west wales Yeh, I thought Rh would be the correct spelling, except I wouldn't call it Welshified as it would be the original. Anything else would be Anglicized. Also, it wouldn't undergo the soft mutation all that often because Rh and Ll are exceptions to a lot of the mutation rules. I actually do pronounce the 'h' in both speech and in song... sort of a soft flutter of the R just behind the front teeth. sian |
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29 May 02 - 05:12 AM (#719324) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Nigel Parsons sian,west wales: yes Ll & Rh are exceptions to many of the mutation rules, but not the soft mutation. Soft mutation affects C, P, T, G, B, D, Ll, M, & Rh Nasal affects C, P, T, G, B, D, Aspirate affect C, P, T. It is the lack of the other two mutations which makes Ll & Rh appear to be exceptions. I used the term "Welshified" because I don't know of any original Welsh place name of Rhymney, (as in the valleys,) or Rumney as a part of Cardiff. If they are invented place names then providing 'Welsh' spellings is the equivalent to providing English spellings of genuine Welsh placenames. Nigel |
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15 Oct 02 - 11:14 PM (#804066) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,jduran2@cox.net does any one know wherei can download this song? I heard it the other day and fell in love with it! PLEASE e-mail me. JDURAN2@COX.NET |
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16 Oct 02 - 12:38 AM (#804117) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Art Thieme When I was much younger, no older than 18 or 20, I heard Pete do this fine song. It hit me like a ton of bricks. I had never heard anything to compare with it. This song opened my eyes and my brain and my heart to all the wonder and information that can be crammed into a song. There is so much there---both said and inferred. Every line of the song tickled nerves that create vivid pictures on that most sensitive of all photographic emulsions---the human mind. I would lay awake and fantasize about doing this song myself and adding spoken dialogue that would be based on all the brilliant(?) insights I'd gleaned from the words (I hoped). These, of course, were only adolescent mental meanderings, but they set the stage for what I would wind up doing on stage for all the time I was a folksinger----rambling from song to song, never the same order or message twice, and bringing in bits of folklore and jokelore, tall tales and short tales that, hopefully, went toward making the songs and ballads I cared so much about a bit more accessable to people who might've been 300 years removed from the events taking place in the songs. And Pete Seeger continued to provide his great examples for me for a half century. But this was the song that grabbed my by the scruff of the neck and pointed the way. I will forever be grateful. Art Thieme |
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25 Nov 03 - 01:59 AM (#1060388) Subject: DTCorr: Bells of Rhymney From: Joe Offer There is a rather noticeable mistake in the middle of the DT lyrics for "Bells of Rhymney." Here is the corrected text I submitted to the Digital Tradition. Did I make any mistakes? BELLS OF RHYMNEY (Idris Davies & Pete Seeger) Oh what will you give me? Say the sad bells of Rhymney Is there hope for the future? Cry the brown bells of Merthyr. Who made the mine owner? Say the black bells of Rhondda. And who robbed the miner? Cry the grim bells of Blaina. They will plunder willy-nilly, Cry the bells of Caerphilly. They have fangs, they have teeth, Say the loud bells of Neath. Even God is uneasy, Say the moist bells of Swansea. And what will you give me? Say the sad bells of Rhymney Put the vandals in court Say the bells of Newport. All would be well if, if, if, Cry the green bells of Cardiff. Why so worried, sisters, why? Sang the silver bells of Wye. And what will you give me? Say the sad bells of Rhymney. Lyrics from "Gwalia Deserta" by Welsh poet Idris Davies, who lived in Tonypandy in the Rhondda Valley the heart of the coalfields of South Wales. The poem was written in about 1927, and published in 1938. Tune by Pete Seeger, 1959. Copyright Ludlow Music, 1959. Source: "Where Have All the Flowers Gone?" - a book by Pete Seeger.
@Welsh Here are the DT lyrics, still incorrect in 2019: BELLS OF RHYMNEY (DT Lyrics) Oh what will you give me Say the sad bells of Rhymney Is there hope for the future Cry the brown bells of Merthyr Who made the mine owner Say the black bells of Rhondda And who robbed the miner Cry the grim bells of Blaina They will plunder willy-nilly Cry the bells of Caerphilly They have fangs, they have teeth Say the loud bells of Neath Even God is uneasy Say the moist bells of Swansea Say the bells of Caerphilly Put the vandals in court Say the bells of Newport All would be well if, if, if Cry the green bells of Cardiff Why so worried, sisters, why Sang the silver bells of Wye And what will you give me Say the sad bells of Rhymney @Welsh recorded by Ian Campbell Folk Group filename[ BELLRHYM TUNE FILE: BELLRHYM CLICK TO PLAY SOF |
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25 Nov 03 - 05:28 PM (#1060830) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Bill D wow...the tune was only from 1959? I heard it on record in about '61, and heard Pete do it live in 61 or 62! An amazing song...and my introduction to WHY guys work so hard to play a 12 string guitar! Brings back memories... (reads ok to me, Joe) |
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25 Nov 03 - 07:21 PM (#1060916) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Gareth No Joe - Seems OK ! And as a thought - The traditional 'Toast' of the old South Wales Miners Federation was this - "To the day the last man left the last pit on the end of the last shift" Don't pray to hard, you may get what you pray for. Gareth - from Ystrad Mynach in the Rhymney Valley Caerphilly 5 miles to the South Rhymney, Dowlais, and Merthyr Tydfil about 12 miles to the north. And Aberfan, well, just over the hill. |
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26 Nov 03 - 06:14 AM (#1061228) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,celtaddict at work When Mainbrace were in the U.S. they sang "The Bells of Rhymney" (which they pronounced "rumney" naturally, and paired with "The Old Miner" quite effectively) and at one concert a woman who had lived in Wales commented that she had not heard it for years and now that she had lived there the words meant more to her, for example, the "why so worried, sister, why?" reflected the fact that Wye is so near the English border that it was less affected. I would be very interested in knowing the sociopolitical background of Davies' poem in general and the specific comments linked to specific places in particular. |
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26 Nov 03 - 12:03 PM (#1061319) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Chris in Wheaton While we're at it, does anyone have the Welsh words for the great Canadian song about the mines, A Working Man (google on "it's a working man, I am" for the English lyrics)? Diolch a dwirnod twrci hapus - wel, yn ol i yr pwllau, Chris in Wheaton (dwi'n dysgu Cymraeg!) |
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21 Dec 03 - 05:17 PM (#1077435) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,anthony You can hear the song and see an evocative video showing scenes of the mining industry in Wales at http://www.worldwidewales.tv/index2.php?mid=168 |
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21 Dec 03 - 05:28 PM (#1077439) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Peace I first heard the song in a basket house in New York. It was remarkable. The fellow who performed it played a seven-stringed guitar (the treble E was doubled--he had seven tuning pegs) and it blew me away. It still remains a wonderful song. I didn't hear it again until Pete Seeger's "We Shall Overcome" concert at Carnegie Hall (the record). My grandfather had been a coal miner, and the stories he told me in my youth came back to me--just like the dam had broken. Wow! Thanks for this reminder. |
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21 Dec 03 - 07:15 PM (#1077490) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,madwaff First heard this song done by the late John Denver, probably in the 70's. More recent, and vitriolic, version I've heard is by Oysterband - really hits a political message about the pit closures and Thatcherism (not that this is that new any more!) plus ca change! madwaff |
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22 Dec 03 - 12:51 PM (#1077828) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,skipy Derek If you do want a copy of the book, there are several avilable on ABE. Just type "ABE" and then type "idris davies" in the slot marked author. The cheapest is £1.99 + p&p Regards skipy |
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02 Mar 04 - 10:17 PM (#1128158) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,cindy thank you for the video clip about the song, The bells of Rhymney.It is so beautiful and typical of the coal miners all over the world. |
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10 Oct 04 - 12:27 PM (#1293829) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,sian i do think this is just a parody of orages and lemons as durin the mining era in wales it was the chapels an not the churches that were rife therefore why would miners be singing of the norman churches that most of them would have bycotted anyway |
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13 Oct 04 - 06:15 PM (#1296425) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,penmorris@tiscali.co.uk Has anyone been able to find a recording of John Denver singing 'Sad Bells of Rhymney' I am from Rhymney and I saw him live in Cardiff twice, where he sang the song both times. As the Church which is known as St., Davids or the 'Top Church' is where I was christened, confirmed, and married, I would love a recording of JD singing this poem. Gail Morris Penpedairheol |
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13 Oct 04 - 07:09 PM (#1296461) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST Idris Davies is a very interesting chap and as important to the cultural history of s Wales as Pete Seeger is to the US(!) Idris Davies never lived in Tonypandy. He was born to a Welsh speaking family in Rhymney, grew up speaking Welsh and trained as a teacher before moving to England. He was mainly self taught. He was a real poet of the deacy and social breakdown of s Wales in the 1920s and 30s, a naion which having already lost the Welsh language then lost the coal industry. As to the bells themselves the bells of Brecon and Wye are off the s Wales coalfield, which meant that they could be happy without the mass unemployment endured by the coalfield to the south. Neath is in the anthracite coalfield of s Wales, which didn't experience the depression of the 20s and 30s so severely. Caerphilly is just off the coalfield. Many miners from Merthyr and Rhymney traveled to pits in the Neath valley at that time. At this time the British government was talking of closing down Merthyr and transporting the people to England- hence the brown bells. This is not a 'song' by miners this is a poem by a great poet who happened to be a miner that expressess a great biterness and hurt.The poem was borrowed by an American singer. Nothing wrong with that. Around here 'Rhymney' is pronounced as it looks with the 'y' long. |
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01 Nov 04 - 09:19 PM (#1313745) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Paragon Has anyone been able to find a recording of John Denver singing 'Sad Bells of Rhymney' I am from Rhymney and I saw him live in Cardiff twice, where he sang the song both times. As the Church which is known as St., Davids or the 'Top Church' is where I was christened, confirmed, and married, I would love a recording of JD singing this poem. Gail Morris Penpedairheol ---------------------------------------------------------------- John Denver recorded Bells of Rhymney with the Mitchell Trio in about 1966 just before Peter Paul & Mary recorded 'Leaving on a Jet Plane' and 'For Bobbi'. You'll find John's first acoustic 12-string rendition of Bells of Rhymney on the 'Violets of the Dawn' album by the Mitchell Trio (this album was recorded shortly after John replaced Chad Mitchell.) This sure is an interesting thread. Thank you all. Edward Minnesota, USA |
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02 Nov 04 - 03:37 AM (#1313905) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Splott Man Although the chapel was and is predominant in the valleys, the Church in Wales (Anglican) has a presence in most communities, and indeed, the Catholic Church has a strong presence, particularly in Cardiff and the immediate surroundings, where there was a lot of Irish immigration during the boom years. Chapels can have bells too. Splott Man |
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02 Nov 04 - 08:51 AM (#1314034) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Snuffy You are right there, Ned "But hark! I hear the chapel bells. They'll all be open now" Ali Baba's Camel, by Bonzo Dog Doodah Band |
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02 Nov 04 - 04:13 PM (#1314472) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: DaveA Regarding the John Denver version, I'm not sure if it was on "That's the Way It's Gonna Be" rather than "Violets of Dawn". However, Kelcoo Music in the UK have released a CD with BOTH these excellent Mitchell Trio LPs amalgamated (24 tracks), including his great version of Mr Tambourine Man. The complete link thru to Kelcoo & this CD is: http://www.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/cpc_150701_ps_6951480_gs_15811229.html Hope this helps Dave |
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03 Nov 04 - 11:46 AM (#1315323) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Flash Company Heard Pete Seeger sing this in The Free Trade Hall, Manchester on his first UK visit after his spell in the McCarthyite slammer. I loved it, but really you can only do it with a 12-stringer. No use to unaccompanied guys like me! FC |
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21 Apr 06 - 10:20 PM (#1724365) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,Gareth Owen I am actually a Rhymney resident, born and bred here and also my whole family. I am a distant realtive of Idris Davies. There is a strong sense of pride and passion for the great man here in our town. The place itself, as some have queried, is atypical of any post industrial town in the South Wales valleys, once proud traditional towns morally and socially corrupt throughout the years by poverty and desperation! Sorry to paint such a grim picture but I only speak the truth. The good sense of community still thrives though and a lot of good, voluntary work is done in the community. It is set in the most beautiful rugged scenery you could imagine and we take the neighbouring mountains for granted really. If you are interested in Idris Davies work then do a google search and try to find a book of poems released by him, through the legendary T.S Elliot. 'RUM KNEE' Is the pronounciation too! ;) |
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22 Apr 06 - 06:02 AM (#1724512) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Emma B I've not heard this wonderful sung version of the Idris Davies poem for many years but driving down the Wye valley and the Vale of Neath on the way to the Gower Wedding a fortnight ago the road signs brought the powerfully emotive words back and I found myself singing in the car. A song well worth "resurrecting" |
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22 Apr 06 - 11:58 AM (#1724685) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Bunnahabhain As noted above, the Oyster bands version of this has some real fire and venom behind it. They are rather good at political and protest songs. |
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22 Apr 06 - 05:06 PM (#1724870) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,ifor What a great writer was Idris Dvies...the bard of Rhymney. I am pretty sure that he was a schoolteacher who died quite young. His collection of poems Gwalia Deserta is a tragic account of the destruction caused to the welsh mining valleys as poverty and unemployment hit home in the 1920s and 1930s and the young people of the valleys were forced to move to London and elsewhere to look for work. As a young teenager I could barely beieve my ears when I realised that the Byrds were singing about my home town of Neath.Of course Roger McGuinn being a folkie himself would have known the Pete Seegar version of this wonderful song. Ifor |
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22 Apr 06 - 11:25 PM (#1725037) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,Texas Guest No doubt in my mind - The Byrds version of "The Bells" is the one that makes my heart sing. McGuinn's "jingle-jangle" Ric 12-string just created a wonderful bed for their moving vocals to soar upon. I simply loved the Byrds, then and now. Cheers. |
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23 Apr 06 - 12:15 AM (#1725057) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: number 6 I with you on the Byrd's version Texas Guest. sIx |
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23 Apr 06 - 07:47 AM (#1725203) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,Dr Price Gwalia Deserta was a cycle of poems about the Depression, and the bitterness and hopelessness it engendered; The Bells Of Rhymney was a part of that. But Idris Davies shall be remembered for his incisiveness of his poems and his love for the Valleys of South Wales. On their album "Songs And Tunes From South Wales", Calennig recorded the poem "When April Came To Rhymney": When April came to Rhymney In shower and sun and shower The green hills and the brown hills Could sport some happy flower And sweet it was to fancy That even the blackest mound Was proud of its single daisy Rooted in bitter ground. And old men would remember and young men would be vain and the hawthorn by the pithead Would blossom in the rain and the blackest streets of evening They had their magic hour When April came to Rhymney In shower and sun and shower. |
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23 Apr 06 - 09:09 AM (#1725247) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: breezy Chris Flegg features it occasionally. Winward Folk Club Sundays in St Albans, club re-opens Sun 7th may at the Comfort Hotel it was Pete Seeger on Sunday night at the London Palladium where I first heard it |
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26 Jul 07 - 02:56 PM (#2111994) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,peter Entirely too cool. My curiosity in the bells is from the Emmylou Harris song "Goin Back to Harlan".
and play me a little Shady Grove Ring the bells of rhymney till they ring inside my head forever Bounce the bow. Rock the gallows For the hangmans reel And wake the devil from his dream. |
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27 Jul 07 - 11:15 AM (#2112659) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: goatfell I love Wales, I just think it's a quite place, and I jsut can't stand busy places at all. Tom From Scotland |
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27 Jul 07 - 11:18 AM (#2112660) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Scooby Doo I have lived in Wales for 24 years and i love Scotland.I have to have a holiday up there at least once a year. Scooby From Wales. |
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27 Jul 07 - 12:11 PM (#2112707) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: SINSULL John Denver's Bells of Rhymney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7OYUqVfnGY |
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27 Jul 07 - 01:21 PM (#2112759) Subject: RE: Bells of Rhymney From: Bill D someone ELSE did The Bells of Rhymney, and lighting did not come down and strike them?....*grin* I don't think I'll listen to Denver do it... |
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31 Aug 07 - 03:20 PM (#2137861) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: Llanfair Oh, I did enjoy that!! I was looking for the words and meandered into this thread. I'm planning on singing it on the market tomorrow. Welshpool, of course!!! |
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13 Sep 07 - 05:33 PM (#2148511) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,pen morris wow, I have waited so long to hear him sing this song again. I am from Rhymney, and I was told of a story of when John Denver came to visit the church, St. Davids Church in Rhymney,and my neighbour who was the caretaker of the church, showed him around, probably in the 60s. I must admit that when he sings the song, it sends shivers down my spine. I just love it! Gail |
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14 Sep 07 - 11:20 AM (#2149148) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: Bryn Pugh Peth yw'r enw Gymraeg o "Mudcat" a os welychi'n da ? |
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14 Sep 07 - 11:26 AM (#2149158) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: Splott Man Cath llaca? Cath mwd? Cath llaid? |
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20 Sep 07 - 08:54 AM (#2153360) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: Bryn Pugh Diolch i, dyn Splott, yr wyfi'n hoffi 'cath llaid'. Hwyl fawr, Bryn. |
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20 Sep 07 - 09:16 AM (#2153379) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,Tippy tin I heard the tune on the MUZAK the other day. |
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20 Sep 07 - 11:14 AM (#2153448) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,old girl 1 I might be giving my age away but when I was in school we had to learn this poem off by heart I do'ent think it was set to music then. Rose |
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19 Dec 07 - 08:21 PM (#2219346) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,Margo http://www.welshicons.org.uk/html/rhymney.php |
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19 Dec 07 - 09:15 PM (#2219372) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: Lonesome EJ Until I saw him perform it in a You Tube video, I'd never seen or heard Pete's version. Very raw and emotional with its almost arhythmic music accompaniment. The soaring harmonies of the Byrds do seem to give the song a more ethereal and wistful feel. Both great versions, but nearly entirely different songs. The Denver and Alarm versions seem to plow the same turf as the McGuinn one. |
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20 Dec 07 - 04:48 AM (#2219519) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: David C. Carter I thought Judy Collins did it on some record or other.Can't remember which one though. The only version I have is by Dylan and the Band,on a Basement Tapes cd.Not a great performence,he's just running through stuff.But I listen to it a lot.I always loved that song. |
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20 Dec 07 - 09:46 AM (#2219613) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: Uncle_DaveO GUEST,sian said, in part: i do think this is just a parody of oranges and lemons Not a parody. A development of a thought, an echo if you will, even a theft of an image, but not a parody. A parody embodies a degree of sarcasm, or a satirical turn which is not present in this moving song. Dave Oesterreich |
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21 Dec 07 - 04:10 AM (#2220173) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: Fidjit Quote Flash Company., but really you can only do it with a 12-stringer.. Unquote: No! You can do it with six strings too. Sang it at a gig last Saturday as a tribute to Pete. Fifty years since it was recorded!! I have the LP. One of my first. Chas |
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25 Oct 08 - 02:10 PM (#2475956) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: Lonesome EJ Interesting conversation about this song. The consensus seems to be that it is not about a specific event, but about the general decline in the mining industry in Wales in the 20s and 30s. But a few phrases seem particularly to point at particular occurrences. "Who made the mine owner", "They will plunder willy-nilly", "they have fangs they have teeth" ,"Throw the vandals in court", . Is this anger directed at the owners? The phrases seem to target something more active and aggressive than seeming to express sadness and frustration over mine closings. |
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25 Oct 08 - 06:35 PM (#2476091) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: SussexCarole Sadly the bells of Rhymney can no longer be rung 'full circle', and as I understand there is no plan for their restoration. It appears that they would have become unringable soon after Idris Davies had written the poem |
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26 Oct 08 - 07:55 PM (#2476867) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: Susanne (skw) EJ, I don't know, but I've always assumed the anger was directed at the mine owners for their treatment of the miners - long on demands, short on pay, safety, honesty etc., as many of the songs about mining disasters seem to prove. |
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10 Dec 08 - 05:16 PM (#2512050) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,RussRhymney SussexCarole is correct, the Bells of Rhymney can no longer be rung 'full circle', if fact they cannot be rung at all. We just have some of the chimes working. However, we are embarking on a complete restoration programme of St David's Church (the Top Church) where the bells are housed. This restoration will include the 'Bells of Rhymney'. The current estimate for the complete restoration of the church is approaching £750,000, which includes a cost of £50,000 to restore the bells to their former glory. We are currently vigorously fund raising and seek grant assistance to assist with this mammoth task, so all contributions, financial or otherwise, will be greatly appreciated. If you are able to help please contact russ@shurmer-associates.co.uk. |
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23 Dec 08 - 09:30 PM (#2523463) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST,another byrds fan Heard it years ago by Seeger. Loved it. Seemed rougher by him. Heard the Byrds take on it and fell in love all over again. Wish they hadn't omitted the middle verse. Play it every time I pick my Ric 360 12. Its on their first album "The Byrds". Give it a listen. (Yeah, I know it wasnt their first. But it was their first real album. |
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12 May 10 - 03:17 PM (#2905475) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney From: GUEST Lonesome EJ, only half the phrases are directed towards the coal owners e.g. Who made the mine owner", "They will plunder willy-nilly", "they have fangs they have teeth", over their treatment of the miners during the strike and lockout. As for the phrase "Throw the vandals in court" this isn't a reference to the coal owners. Because this cry came from Newport an area which suffered less unemployment in the 1920s than the south Wales coalfield, the cry to put the vandals in court refers to the militant miners of 1926, as they were seen as vandals who refused work and created social disturbance. From Swansea onwards Idris Davies is portraying the social unsease felt by the more prosperous areas towards the south Wales miners. |
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13 Sep 11 - 02:00 AM (#3222322) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: GUEST,Jim Clark poetryreincarnation youtube channe Its nice seeing the great Idris Davies being mentioned here at Mudcat he wrote such excellent poetry that was steeped in the realities of the struggles of the working classes. I have recently reincarnated him reading several of his finest poems in several virtual movies at my poetryreincarnations channel @ youtube Heres a link to The Bells of Rhymney.......... "The Bells of Rhymney" by Idris Davies Poem animation |
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13 Sep 11 - 02:19 PM (#3222660) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: GUEST,Don Wise As an aside, "Goin' back to Harlan" (mentioned somewhere above and years ago) was actually composed by Anna McGarrigle. |
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14 Sep 11 - 10:38 AM (#3223082) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: GUEST,Don Wise It occurs to me that, in the context of "The Bells of Rhymney", it's probably helpful to remember that Cardiff, Newport and Swansea were all major coal exporting ports at the time Idris Davies was writing. For all three, coal export was 'a very nice little earner', and that any disruption in the coalfield was bound to have a negative influence on their prosperity. Don |
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15 Sep 11 - 10:15 AM (#3223576) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: Chris in Portland Jim, great video, thanks for that. Huw Williams' show on the song was great too. Getting excited about our early November visit to South Wales. Working on my Welsh! Hope to visit Rhymney (pronounced "Hrrrum-knee," not "Rim-knee")on our driving tour of the Valleys. Did you get those bells going again? Hoping to see Dewi Pws in Brecon too. Chris in Portland |
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16 Sep 11 - 04:09 AM (#3224045) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: Splott Man Hi Chris in Portland. If you are visiting south Wales, there are quite a few catters here. Folk clubs (and catters) can be found in Llantrisant, Newport (2!), Chepstow, Gower and Pontardawe to name a few. Splott Man |
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02 May 13 - 08:39 PM (#3511162) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: GUEST I understand the poem is by Idris Davies and dates to 1926. I further heard that, ironically, the year the poem was published, Wales had no mining disasters. Such events were apparently so very common in those days that that year (1926) without calamity amounted to great, blessed, and all too infrequent, relief. I heard Seeger found a copy of the Davies poem inserted into the pages of a volume of Dylan Thomas verse. Its potential appeal to Seeger, who was an ardent socialist, is easy to understand. Politics aside, though, the poem and the song remain deeply moving. Who can disagree that, whatever one's own political leanings, we all owe our fellow human beings respect, fairness, and humane consideration, whoever they might be. A little less cruelty to strangers might make us all (the public at large) less willing to apply our own cruelty (what Seeger refers to as "Fangs and Teeth", our very own venom) to other people. Everyone of us could do with receiving a little less callous treatment. Let us pay for that relief in advance by applying some kindness to our fellows in the hopes that we can rachet down the world's quotient of sadness. The song is only about Welsh mining disasters on its most superficial levels. I think it begs for hope that we as humans will work to decrease suffering and increase compassion. The cost would be small, the benefits great. My own favorite version of the song is by the Byrds. |
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03 May 13 - 08:56 AM (#3511278) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: GUEST,Lavengro In regard to Splott Man's post. Don't forget Rumney folk club. Rumney is run by Elaine and Derek Morgan and is a fantastic club which keeps many of us off the streets ;) Whitchurch RFC also have a good club which took over from the BBC folk club once run by Frank Hennessy. And Finally Barry Folk Club at the Glenbrook. |
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04 May 13 - 03:47 AM (#3511510) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: GUEST,Eddie1 For an example of how a wonderful song can be RUINED, go to Spotify, enter the title and give a (brief) listen to the version by Cher! Uughh! Eddie |
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04 May 13 - 03:58 PM (#3511652) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: Airymouse I guess I'm mixing up apples and oranges, or maybe lemons. Anyway here in Virginia we sing a song, "King William was King James's son" which ends with "Here comes a light to light you to bed, and here comes a hatchet to chop off your head." |
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08 Jan 14 - 04:28 AM (#3589950) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: GUEST,deb in ny Judy Collins has a beautiful version on her Judy Collins 3 recording. |
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08 Jan 14 - 05:45 AM (#3589970) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: GUEST,jim bainbridge I first heard the song on an Ian Campbell Five LP in the mid 60s & it made a great impression at the time- it's probably on CD by now. I was also delighted to find a copy of Idris Davies' poetry in the shop of the Welsh Mining Museum at Blaenavon- that was years ago, but they might still have some copies. Essential reading for all folky lefties, like me |
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08 Jan 14 - 01:10 PM (#3590087) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: GUEST Pete seeger coosd an effective 12 string accompaniment tha may be found on jerry silvermans 12 string guitar tutor as piblished by oak |
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09 Jan 14 - 05:29 AM (#3590309) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: eddie1 I guess my favourite version has to be by Pete Seeger, with nods to The Byrds/Roger McGuinn. Interesting to have a trip through Spotify, quickly skipping past the version by Cher. Judy Collins does a good job and the six- or twelve-string question is answered by Bob Davenport who does an acapella version - with a tune much closer to the nursery rhyme of my childhood. Way back, probably my first venture into Mudcat, I answered a query about Len Partridge from Edinburgh. The late, great Hamish Henderson once introduced Len to Pete with the words, "This is Len, he can play "The Bells of Rhymney" better than you."! Eddie |
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09 Jan 14 - 09:23 AM (#3590351) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: Eldergirl Nice to discover this thread, bringing back memories. First version I heard was the Byrds', pronouncing it wrong of course, but I knew no better till I asked my schoolmate's Dad, who was Welsh, and he promptly went off into raptures about the Rhymney Brewery!! Ah, poetry indeed (chortle). Thanks also for posting full lyric, as I too had missed out on the second verse. So a bit more learning to do. X el |
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24 Mar 15 - 03:47 PM (#3696518) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: Joe Offer Could somebody post the text of the original Idris Davies poem? I can't find it anywhere. I have listened to several Seeger recordings. He sang it different each time, so who knows what lyrics are correct? -Joe- |
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24 Mar 15 - 05:22 PM (#3696536) Subject: ADD: Bells of Rhymney (poem by Idris Davies) From: FreddyHeadey Safest I could find: from a comment in the southwalesargus.co.uk(they should know??) Gwalia Deserta XV Bells of Rhymney (poem by Idris Davies) O what can you give me? Say the sad bells of Rhymney. Is there hope for the future? Cry the brown bells of Merthyr. Who made the mineowner? Say the black bells of Rhondda. And who robbed the miner? Cry the grim bells of Blaina. They will plunder willy-nilly, Say the bells of Caerphilly. They have fangs, they have teeth Shout the loud bells of Neath. To the south, things are sullen, Say the pink bells of Brecon. Even God is uneasy, Say the moist bells of Swansea. Put the vandals in court Cry the bells of Newport. All would be well if — if — if — Say the green bells of Cardiff. Why so worried, sisters, why Sing the silver bells of Wye. And that seems to match this YT of Idris Davies reciting it www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PMXfpbFccg One from the words in the book On the Air with Dylan Thomas: The Broadcasts So the main difference from the poem seems to be missing out of To the south, things are sullen, Say the pink bells of Brecon. |
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24 Mar 15 - 05:32 PM (#3696542) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: Joe Offer Thank you kindly, Freddy. Sounds like Seeger's recording is quite accurate, except for his tendency to switch the verbs around (say, sing, cry, etc). -Joe- |
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03 Apr 23 - 04:09 PM (#4169166) Subject: RE: Origin: Bells of Rhymney (Idris Davies/Pete Seeger From: sian, west wales The National Library of Wales is marking the 70th anniversary of Idris Davies' death on its blog which might be of interest. sww |