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09 May 07 - 11:05 AM (#2047030) Subject: helping floorsingers From: The Sandman As an experienced performer,I am always happy to give advice and constructive criticism,to amateur performers should they wish it. by asking guests, floorsingers can hopefully improve,their performing skills. I have noticed that several folk clubs provide workshops for performers,. do people on this forum think, asking a guest for performing advice and attending workshops is a good idea for floorsingers or novice musicians,. |
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09 May 07 - 11:17 AM (#2047035) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: skipy In a word "yes" Skipy |
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09 May 07 - 11:22 AM (#2047041) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: Snuffy
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09 May 07 - 11:25 AM (#2047046) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: My guru always said I'm with Snuffy! But I must add that advising floor singers to tape themselves may also help them to polish their performance skills! |
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09 May 07 - 12:05 PM (#2047069) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: Big Al Whittle 'I have noticed that several folk clubs provide workshops for performers,'. yeh! nail the buggers in their seats til they've learned the words. |
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09 May 07 - 12:09 PM (#2047075) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: jacqui.c Yes to workshops - I've learned a lot from workshops at the Getaway and Neffa. |
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09 May 07 - 01:02 PM (#2047112) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: synbyn yes, and also to practice intros - not too long & solely info which isn't in the song! taping is a very good idea, if revealing sometimes. The harmony workshops at festivals are a good way in. Many clubs seem now to be fuller of potential singers than listeners, and all are anxious for their turn. Offering constructive advice is much better than turning them away, I feel: just as some stand-up comedians find eventually that they prefer to hear others rather than perform, the truly tone-deaf tend quietly to participate by applauding and putting money in the hat! |
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09 May 07 - 01:41 PM (#2047133) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: Cats Most definitley. Any performance should be good and to the best of the performers ability but shouldn't take the fun away. We welcome new performers at Fox and Hounds and are always supportive. |
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09 May 07 - 01:42 PM (#2047134) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: McGrath of Harlow I'm not too sure about these kinds of attempts to formalise the learning process, when they get beyond the occasioanl workshop at a festival. Maybe they might help some people, but I have a feeling that there's a danger of smoothing out the quirky and the idiosyncratic qualities. I'd hate to see a situation where people had to pass some kind of driving test before being allowed to sing in public. |
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09 May 07 - 02:24 PM (#2047172) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: Jim Lad I've often thought that a "Performer's Workshop" would be a good idea. Until, that is, I stumbled upon a book which was being promoted on one of these threads. While the book was receiving rave reviews from all, I was, on the other hand, in total disagreement with what most of the author said. The learning process is a rough one and we can try to smoothe the way but ultimately, the artist has to plough his own furrow, I'm afraid. |
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09 May 07 - 03:04 PM (#2047198) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: Waddon Pete Hello, Anyone who is serious about their craft as a singer and musician, at whatever level, is always willing to learn. The ways to do this are, of course, many and various and workshops, master classes and similar settings all have their part. But we all have to learn our craft in the school of hard knocks! So yes...provide all these opportunities freely...but no cotton wool, no certificate at the end and no compulsion to attain targets! Best wishes, Peter |
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09 May 07 - 03:38 PM (#2047233) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: BB I'm not sure why anyone should think that workshops, organised by clubs or otherwise, should 'standardise' anything. I don't think anyone is suggesting having to pass any kind of test. Our club runs workshops whenever the chance arises for someone knowledgeable to lead them, and on a variety of subjects, with the aim of improving performance skills of all sorts, as well as songwriting. And they have made a difference to many people involved in the club, as well as those who have attended from a wide area around. And one of the workshops was entitled, 'How to make a song your own' - hardly 'standardisation'! :-) Barbara |
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09 May 07 - 06:09 PM (#2047342) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: GUEST,Shimrod I've always found workshops to be helpful. I attended one of Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger's workshops back in the late 60s and I consider it to have been one of the great educational experiences of my life. As a result of that experience I've been involved with workshop sessions ever since. Workshops can have many different objectives but they can be very useful for problem solving ie. an attendee may come to the session with a song that they're not happy with ("I've just learned this song, it's a great song, but I'm just not comfortable with it"). The other members of the workshop can often come up with a solution (or solutions) to the singer's problem(s). These solutions are often quite simple eg. "try singing it a bit slower/faster", "try singing it in a lower/higher key" etc., etc. It's amazing what a difference a different perspective can sometimes have. I vividly remember struggling with a particular ballad and hence being reluctant to sing it in public. One of my fellow workshoppers suggested that I wasn't taking breaths in the right places. Once this was pointed out it seemed obvious - but it worked - everything then fell into place and I found myself to be much more comfortable with the song. To my mind workshops are not about standardisation but about a group of singers pooling their various strengths, resources and knowledge in order to help everyone in the group become a better singer. |
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09 May 07 - 06:18 PM (#2047349) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: The Sandman Mcgrath, 1.floor singers are already singing in public. 2.you are the only person who has mentioned driving tests. |
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09 May 07 - 06:40 PM (#2047371) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: Rowan The oldest of our continuously running folk festivals (in Oz) started as a workshop to teach 200 people from the city the tunes and moves of a series of dances that had been discovered in NE Victoria. The success of that and subsequent workshops led to the starting of the National Folk Festivals here. The fact that many of the people who started the Nationals were also involved in getting the Nariel workshops up meant that many of the events at the early Nationals were workshops and/or seminars. Floorsinging (and dancing) was my path into my "career" (if that's what it has been) as a performer. Such workshops are frequent at current Nationals although there was a transition to more and more concert-oriented events, still called workshops, after the Darwin Folkies regrouped following their evacuation from Darwin in 1974. I may have more confidence than some. perhaps, or it might be that my uni experiences allowed me to put workshopping into a context that suited me but my observations of others seems to suggest that standardisation hasn't eventuated, but that knowledge and skills have gone from strength to strength. And the enormous breadth of styles and content of workshops at Nationals these days is unlikely to straiten anyone's approach, collectively or individually. But my experience is such matters is distinctively Australian. Cheers, Rowan |
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09 May 07 - 08:12 PM (#2047450) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: McGrath of Harlow I'm not against workshops, but in moderation. As part of a festival I'm all for them - it's the idea of clubs getting into a pattern of regular teaching for singing that makes me a little bit uneasy. And I got the feeling people posting had been welcoming the idea of formal teaching with arms a little too wide open. |
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10 May 07 - 04:51 AM (#2047736) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: The Sandman Here is an argument in favour of folkclubs running workshops. 1.the floorsinger goes regularly [perhaps once a week]to his/her local club,can get regular support and encouragement[hopefully on a one to one basis],.[the performer improves the club benefits]. 2, I think your argument is illogical[why is it ok for festivals but not clubs].http://www.dickmiles.com |
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10 May 07 - 05:43 AM (#2047776) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: Marje I'm all in favour of some workshops to support floor singers. I don't think it's a question of "formal teaching", more an opportunity to think about and discuss what you do and how to do it better, and compare ideas and techniques, preferably with input from one or more experienced and successful performers. I've attended this sort of event at festivals, weekend events etc, and have found them very useful. It always surprises me that some people will take a lot of trouble to tune their instrument properly and take lessons to help them play it well, but give no similar attention to the way they sing. Apart from vocal technique, there's the whole business of deciding what to sing and how to introduce it, finding a key, learning words, whether to go for chorus songs, use (or not) of accompaniment, etc. Not to mention coping with stage fright, sore throats and other difficult situations (first or last song of the evening; someone's just done the song you've been practising all week; how to follow a very confident and popular performer, etc.) And, if you can bear it, getting up in front of the workshop group to sing to each other and accept constructive criticism can be really helpful. What is there to lose in considering and discussing these things together? Marje |
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10 May 07 - 05:57 AM (#2047785) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: The Sandman well said. Marje. |
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10 May 07 - 11:03 AM (#2048074) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: synbyn As she will be too modest to say so, let me commend Barbara's approach (and Tom's) - if you get a chance to go to one of the Brown's sessions please do. They provide a welcome which encourages the very inexperienced (my son was 8 and has never forgotten) and gives them a platform whilst encouraging respect for contributions which are genuinely intended. As a result their singarounds are usually populated also by extremely experienced singers and everybody has a good time. |
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10 May 07 - 12:26 PM (#2048172) Subject: RE: helping floorsingers From: Surreysinger Captain - re the matter of floorsingers asking guest performers for comment on performance skills/technique etc, I think the answer to whether it is a good idea or not may rather depend on honesty of the guest. There is sometimes a tendency to say nice things to people in those situations because its easier than being critical in a club situation. Re workshops, whether organised by club or other organisation, I reckon that they are GOOD THINGS (using Sellars and Yeatman's capital letter technique!) Lewes Arms club runs a very good series of workshops on all topics throughout the year ... I've been to several useful ones there - harmony ones with Coope Boyes and Simpson and Craig Morgan and Robson, (purely for enjoyment and out of interest, as I'm never 100% sure that harmony workshops actually achieve all that much, other than allowing people the opportunity for a sing - which is great), and one on ballads (of much more interest to me). But in the past I've been to some which deal with warm up techniques, approaches to song etc. I think that they are really a kicking off point, and a means to prod the individual singer into thinking about what they're doing. The best singing workshops I've been to, though, were organised by Folk South West under the banner of "In the Tradition" at their Easter School in Bath - effectively run on the master class principle, with individuals singing in front of tutor and fellow classmates, in non-intimidating circumstances, with participants ranging from those who had never sung in public at all, to those who were actually very experienced. Run over a period of 4 days, the tutors (who on the courses I went on included Shirley Collins, Nancy Kerr, John Kirkpatrick and Eddie Upton)and fellow students are very supportive... and on each occasion by the end of the four days everybody had gained in confidence, been given food for thought, and had the chance to sing in performance in front of fellow students and staff if they wanted to. (I can think of one fellow student on that first course in 2001 who was terrified of singing in front of anyone else when she started, by the end of the four days had picked up courage, and sang in the student performance in the theatre, and four years later was singing out at local clubs... it had made a difference). Attending that workshop ended up with my performing with a fellow student at the end of the course, and as a result of our collaboration, eventually led to my first and second paid gigs, producing a couple of shows with him, something that I doubt would have happened if I had not attended the course.... so yes, I reckon workshops can be a good thing, and would recommend them anytime. |