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09 May 07 - 03:21 PM (#2047212) Subject: BS: not so fast... From: tarheel Subject: Not so fast with biofuels, U.N. warns - World Environment - MSNBC.com Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 15:42:20 -0400 Slowly but surely, most of this stuff is finally found out, but often the damage is already done. There is always someone coming up with the old "bell the cat" scheme. 'GEE, THAT'S A GREAT IDEA!" just to get revealed as an idiot when the consequences become apparent. Maybe Gore's time will come around. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18551000/ Ethanol!!! Whee!! That's great! Now, suddently the environmenalists are seeing the grey light of dawn. For openers: ethanal has a great affinity to WATER to the extent that, without a benzene (carcinogen) dryer, 100% ethanol is an impossibility regardless of how many times it goes through a still. The point? Fuel pipelines are made of steel, steel is made of iron and iron rusts!!! Talk about pollution?? Just wait until all those pinholes start spilling good old E85 up and down the countryside---all along the line. Also, unless the rubber is specially formulated to withstand ethanol, it turns it to jelly---ruined an electric fuel pump on my Onan generator set. My cow feed has jumped 40% and--since feed other than grass is my largest operating expense, my margins come down FAST!! So--I either quit or must get more for my cattle; in either case the price goes up---supply and demand. Be careful what you ask for, YOu may receive it Tar... |
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09 May 07 - 03:25 PM (#2047216) Subject: RE: BS: not so fast... From: Mrrzy Right - people are starving all over the world, so let's take food and turn it into fuel for our cars. Love the idea, personally. Not. |
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09 May 07 - 03:25 PM (#2047218) Subject: RE: BS: not so fast... From: KB in Iowa It would also mean even more fencerow to fencerow planting, good bye buffer strips. I have also heard (from sources who should know and had no particular axe to grind) that ethanol could never supply more than a fraction of our energy needs. Not saying that ethanol is a bad thing, but it is no cure all. |
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09 May 07 - 03:31 PM (#2047224) Subject: RE: BS: not so fast... From: Alice One reason producing ethanol from corn is not a great idea - because it would have to be transported in truck tankers instead of a pipeline, we'd be burning up even more fuel in its transportation (not to mention the extra use of petrol based fertilizer, the fuel to plant and harvest the corn, the irrigation water...). |
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09 May 07 - 03:39 PM (#2047235) Subject: RE: BS: not so fast... From: Ebbie Just the other day I was reading about a different plant that is being touted in certan parts of Europe and that can/could be used as a biofuel. Its name has slipped my mind- although I believe it begins with the letter 'r'. It's a crop that grows on shrubby land and is not edible. Did anyone else read this? |
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09 May 07 - 03:42 PM (#2047237) Subject: RE: BS: not so fast... From: Bill D Brazil is 'almost' energy independent using biofuels, but the cost to the land is something they don't like to discuss. It 'could' help a little (if fact, it does now) if properly regulated, but is not a long-term answer. |
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09 May 07 - 04:13 PM (#2047268) Subject: RE: BS: not so fast... From: JohnInKansas about a different plant that is being touted in certan parts of Europe Is this the same idea someone had when they thought importing kudzu to the SE US would be a good idea, since it was supposed to be a really good livestock food? John |
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09 May 07 - 04:17 PM (#2047272) Subject: RE: BS: not so fast... From: KB in Iowa Yes, but now they are thinking of importing a beetle that will eat the kudzu, that wiggled and jiggled and tickled inside her. |
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09 May 07 - 04:19 PM (#2047273) Subject: RE: BS: not so fast... From: MMario Kudzu *is* a good feed for cattle - except they don't like it. |
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09 May 07 - 04:24 PM (#2047277) Subject: RE: BS: not so fast... From: KB in Iowa Great pic you linked to John. It is amazing driving down south (the stuff doesn't grow here, too cold) and seeing large swaths just swallowed up by the stuff. |
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09 May 07 - 04:28 PM (#2047281) Subject: RE: BS: not so fast... From: GUEST, Ebbie Well, MMario, that's an easy one- just import some flavoring. The licorice plant comes to mind. :) No, it wasn't kudzu that I was reading about. (By the way, the word I wanted was 'scrubby', not 'shrubby'.) The US has reservations about this plant but part(s) of the world see great hope in it. Incidentally, if corn became the biodiesel of the future, why should its price go UP? Surely farmers would then have a cash crop that would bring them prosperity for the first time in decades. Old joke: Old farmer gives up and quits farming. Decides to go into business. He orders a boxcar load of hammers. Each hammer cost him $2.00 and he sells each one for $1.00 so his sales are brisk. Man takes him to task, saying, Hey, man, you can't sell those hammers for $1.00- they cost you $2.00! Farmer shrugs. Beats farming, he said. |
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09 May 07 - 04:37 PM (#2047288) Subject: RE: BS: not so fast... From: KB in Iowa How does a farmer double his income? He puts up another mail box. |
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09 May 07 - 04:42 PM (#2047292) Subject: RE: BS: not so fast... From: Donuel Don't tell anyone but hemp makes more, better and cheaper oil than corn on poorer soils without irrigation. but there isn't a govenor or Congress person that would get any subsidies or kick backs for hemp oil. |
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09 May 07 - 04:52 PM (#2047297) Subject: RE: BS: not so fast... From: Sorcha Are you perhaps thinking of jojoba? Or possibly rape/canola? |
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09 May 07 - 05:05 PM (#2047306) Subject: RE: BS: not so fast... From: Donuel jojoba or Rape Seed oil is bad for human consumption (FDA doesn't care), but I bet it is cheaper than corn if you are growing bio fuels. |
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09 May 07 - 05:08 PM (#2047308) Subject: RE: BS: not so fast... From: Sorcha Uh, Don....jojoba is NOT the same as rape, and I don't think the allegations have actually been proven. Yes, I've seen the scary web pages too. |