|
05 Jun 07 - 06:42 PM (#2069514) Subject: BS: Straightening a fork From: McGrath of Harlow No it's not a Uri Geller infestation. It's a garden fork with a problem. Wrestling with some tree roots that had grown into what was supposed to be a flower bed I have bent out of alignment one of its prongs. Anybody got any ideas for getting it back into line with the other prongs? |
|
05 Jun 07 - 06:53 PM (#2069519) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: wysiwyg Vise and hammer. Perhaps heating it first. ~S~ |
|
05 Jun 07 - 07:11 PM (#2069532) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: Rog Peek If you heat it to bend it back, it would have to be red heat. If you do this, you will lose the 'temper' and it will bend all the easier next time you use it. |
|
05 Jun 07 - 07:33 PM (#2069550) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: McGrath of Harlow That's what I was thinking, Rog Peek. And the hammer and vice technique sounds like it might be a bit of a nightmare. I doubt if I've got a vice that could do the trick. I can envisage some kind of makeshift torsion device where I could twist a cable attached to the errant tine/prong and pull it back into alignment, but I can't see how it could be set up. I'm hoping the ingenious Mudcat community can come up with a cunning plan for doing this, or solving the problem in some other way. |
|
05 Jun 07 - 07:34 PM (#2069553) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: Rog Peek Turn the fork up the other way and tackle another root! Ha Ha. |
|
05 Jun 07 - 07:35 PM (#2069554) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: bobad You can try bending it by using a pipe of suitable diameter and length and brute force, the longer it is the more leverage you will get. |
|
05 Jun 07 - 07:35 PM (#2069555) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: Rapparee I assume it's a spading fork and not a hayfork or manure fork -- I did that too. Never did figure out a good solution and I finally had to throw the fork away. Darned shame. |
|
05 Jun 07 - 07:37 PM (#2069557) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: Rog Peek McGrath, you mentioned Uri Geller, perhaps he might be able to help. |
|
05 Jun 07 - 07:54 PM (#2069566) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: Declan Relleg Iru is the best person for this. |
|
05 Jun 07 - 08:00 PM (#2069573) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: redsnapper I managed to straighten one using bobad's method... worth a try. RS |
|
05 Jun 07 - 08:18 PM (#2069588) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: folk1e I assume it is the end prong and you are in the UK. Go to the nearest grid and lift it up, insert the prong into the trellis of the open grid and bend it back by levering the handle! This is easier than bending it out of alignment as you are only putting pressure on one prong. If you look around there are many suitable "fixed points" you could use for this, maybe try the gatepost or a concrete fence post....... but don't forget to drop the grid back after you have finished! |
|
05 Jun 07 - 09:50 PM (#2069635) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: JennyO What Rog Peek said. And I wouldn't laugh - it works for me. |
|
05 Jun 07 - 10:34 PM (#2069661) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: JohnInKansas Take it to the nearest auto body repair shop that has a frame straightener ... The difficulty that arises with bent tools is that when steel, the usual material, bends, it also hardens most (called work-hardening) where it bends most. When you try to bend it back, it's most likely to bend most somewhere else, where it has not been previously bent, since the original "unbent" material is slightly softer than the material in the original bend. With practice, one can learn how to compensate, but you're unlikely to develop the skill to a high level with your first fork. The essential problem is developing your eye for where the bend is, so that you can apply your re-bending force there, rather than just "pushing at what sticks out." The method(s) you use to apply the appropriate force will depend on the tools at hand. It must be remembered that for the "creative fixer" tools don't often look like tools, so some imagination is necessary. Suggestons previously made are pretty good, but are only a partial list. After you have made your best attempts, quite likely this fork should be set aside as the "loaner" you keep for the neighbor who never brings things back. Once he/she loses it, you can apply your persuasive powers to shaming said neighbor into buying you a replacement. Since such "borrowers" invariably will - even in the rare instance when replacement actually is made - come up with the shoddiest imitation possible, you should in the mean time get yourself a good replacement for your own use. When you get your good quality replacement, you should refrain from trying to pry tree roots, rocks, and water pipes out of the ground with it. For these, you need a different tool. There are specialty tools designed for the purpose, but I use a 5-foot long x 1.5 inch diameter axle out of a Massey-Ferguson combine, hammered to a point on one end. John |
|
05 Jun 07 - 11:15 PM (#2069687) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: Bill D I got one pretty well back into alignment by wedging it between the verticals of my iron porch railing...the same basic method folk1e suggested with a grating. The idea is to use the handle length as a lever with the tine trapped....Archimedes knew something... |
|
05 Jun 07 - 11:54 PM (#2069702) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: Leadfingers I would be inclined to look in Yellow Pages for a Blacksmith ! Not a lot of help to you Kevin , but we met one from Tazewell Virginia at the Williamsburg Festival . |
|
06 Jun 07 - 06:11 AM (#2069824) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: JohnInKansas I'd be inclined toward laying the base of the tines over something like a concrete foundation block, with the handle wedged under the front tire of the truck. A spare chunk of water pipe just large enough to slip over the tine, and at least as long as the fork handle should provide enough leverage, since the leverage available to produce the bend was the fork handle. The advantage of this rig is that the tine will bend at the end of the pipe, where the load is applied locally at a fairly specific point, so by sliding the pipe on/off to the right point, you can straighten where the bend is, rather than just deforming the whole tine to a "differently bent" kind of misshapeness. If there's a lot of springback, you may have to use two blocks, but be careful to assure that you have an appropriate landing place when the fork twists, the pipe slips, and your ass hits the ground. And don't wrap your fingers around the pipe so that they'll get pinched when the fork twists and your knuckles hit the ground (abnormally). It will hurt. John |
|
06 Jun 07 - 07:07 AM (#2069852) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: The Fooles Troupe But John, surely your knuckles wouldn't hit the ground, if they're already there.... :-P |
|
06 Jun 07 - 07:33 AM (#2069860) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: Bugsy I think that going to a blacksmith or bodyshop would most probably cost you more than the other solution. BUY A NEW ONE. Cheers Bugsy ps if cashflow is a problem - go to a car boot sale. |
|
06 Jun 07 - 07:57 AM (#2069867) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: JohnInKansas Foolestroupe - Actually I was thinking of guys like you when I inserted the "(abnormally)." Bugsy - The real reason for taking it to the body shop is the hope that you'll get to watch, and then you'll know how the next time. Or at least you'll discover some marvelous new tools to lust after. Fixing (to a point) something like this is easy enough. The whole point is to waste a lot of time being creative in order to avoid doing it using conventional tools and methods. It's no fun if you don't get to mess around doing it. There are, quite obviously, certain "conventional" rules that must be properly ignored and/or violated to maintain ones good standing in the "guy club." Check your membership card. You're probably on probation already. (There's a very special member category for creative gals too.) John |
|
06 Jun 07 - 08:06 AM (#2069875) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: The Fooles Troupe "It's no fun if you don't get to mess around doing it." Yep, that's "creativity" - using the inappropriate tools (because you don;t have the real ones) in an inappropriate manner to try to achieve something, the outcome of which is not certain, but is theoretically possible, cause you read about it in a book once... |
|
06 Jun 07 - 08:38 AM (#2069893) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: Dave the Gnome If you heat it to straiten it will, as Rog pointed out, lose it's 'temper'. However, all is not lost. If you can in fact heat it to such a level (which to be honest is quite unlikey unless you use a forge - although an old fasioned parrafin blowlamp can give off a hell of a temp.) you can also re-temper it. I can't remember the exact colours but as the steel heats up it changes the structure slightly. It goes through being red to orange to yellow and finaly white. Somewhere around the 'straw' colour you can extract it and plunge it into a trough of cold water. It makes a very loud and satisfying hiss:-) Do this a couple of times and you will re-temper the steel to it's original hardness. To do it properly of course you need a lifetime of experience in the skill of a blacksmith. Probably cheaper to but a new fork:-) Cheers Dave, |
|
06 Jun 07 - 08:42 AM (#2069895) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: Dave the Gnome Oh - and take the wooden handle out before you heat it to those levels. As if anyone would forget to do such a thing. Dave. Who once used the handle of a wooden spool down a copper pipe while soldering it in place. Wondered what that funny woodsmoke smell was... |
|
06 Jun 07 - 08:43 AM (#2069898) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: The Fooles Troupe I just realised we are taking this the wrong way... "Anybody got any ideas for getting it back into line with the other prongs?" How about an elderly Schoolmarm? |
|
06 Jun 07 - 09:39 AM (#2069933) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: JohnInKansas A steel rod or bar, about 3/8 to 3/4 inch in diameter/thickness and a little longer than the width of the fork, inserted with the straight tines on one side and the "bent" tine on the other - in the direction you want it to be bent, can be wedged down between the tines until a proper common degree of bend is achieved. You will need a way of holding the fork, probably a fairly large hammer, and likely a suitable "drift" punch to drive the bar far enough to be effective. Because of the springback, a degree of "overbend" be required, which can be determined by trial and error. Since you'll probably have to "tap it in" you can proceed slowly and guess at what the result will be. With the bar wedged in place, with a large enough hammer you may be able to additionally "persuade" the tine in a wanted direction by tapping near the wedge to "help it along." With the wedge to support the mangled tine, tapping between the wedge and the base of the tines will allow you to "localize a bend" that will probably be closer to where you need it, and you'll have less springback to toss the hammer back in your face should you decide to "really whack at it." There is a possibility that you'll bend the other tines a bit with this method, but there's no "sacred degree of curvature" really needed to make the fork functional. You only require that the tines align reasonably with each other. The method has been used around the farm for other "tinish" devices, and works quite well with hay forks (where a wood 2x4 may be an adequate wedge). It should be suitable here, if the deformity is reasonably uniform. Then you can consider the possible ways of getting the bar out from between the tines - which may require more inventiveness than the actual straightening. If the rod used as a wedge is sufficiently long to stick out on both sides of the fork, tapping it out with the same hammer you used to wedge it in quite probalby will not be too difficult. Fortunately, this is a method with which one can easily experiment, using an ordinary table fork and a butter knife as a wedge. Any one who can bend a spade fork should have no trouble mangling a throw-away dining fork, and the experiment will give you some indication of whether your manual coordination may be adequate to handling the larger garden fork. I would not recommend that inexperienced persons try heating for a tool of this kind. Unfortunately, the heat and quench method suggested above will most likely result in a brittle end condition, for most metals likely to have been used for a garden fork. The next time you apply a significant load, the tines are likely to break rather than bending. (Breaking a tool is much more hazardous than bending one.) If you must, a "sometimes" method for tools would be to heat to straw temperature, quench in water or oil, and then place the part in a pan of waste engine oil and light the oil. Let the oil burn itself off, and let the part cool without disturbing it. The flame temperature of the burning oil, in the absence of forced air, should approximate a temperature that will "temper" most carbon steels to a sufficiently tough state to avoid brittle failure the next time it's loaded. Success will depend on the specific metal present, but this method of quench and temper is used occasionally by some gunsmiths I've known for making special-purpose springs when exact replacements aren't available, and usually works well enough with steels somewhat similar to what I'd expect in a common spade fork. It works best with thinner material sections, but should be adaptable to something like your fork. (Expect a lot of smoke while the oil burns off.) Quite obviously, replacing the fork is probably cheaper, safer, and will get you back to useful work much more quickly. You can cut the tines off and use them for tent pegs at the next campout, if you really feel compelled to do something creative with the old one, but you can expect to consume about one new hacksaw blade per tine doing even that, if the fork is good material. John |
|
06 Jun 07 - 10:44 AM (#2069967) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: Mr Happy four candles??????? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCbvCRkl_4U |
|
06 Jun 07 - 03:02 PM (#2070143) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: Rog Peek Dave is right, it could be re-tempered, but it's not quite that simple. The process of tempering is to remove some of the hardness, hence the term 'temper'. To do this successfully, and assuming it is a good quality fork, (i.e.one manufactured from medium to high carbon steel), you would have first to nomalise the whole fork by heating it to cherry red and allowing it to cool.(don't forget to remove the wooden handle. The steel will now be in it's annealed (soft)state and you will be able to straighten the prong with relative ease. You would then need to heat it to cherry red and quench it in water. This will make it very hard indeed, but will also make it very brittle. Any attempt to remove a root with this will result in prongs breaking off. You would then need to temper it by first cleaing it with emery cloth until it is shiny. (if you don't do this you will not be able to see the tempering colours). You would then need to heat it uniformly; you should notice the shiny steel starting to change colour to light straw, through brown, then various shades of blue to purple. When the correct colour is reached for the degree of temper you require, the fork should then be quenched again. It will now be ready for use. I am guessing that the colour at which you would need to quench would be dark brown, but you could check this by refering to a good metalworking reference book. A wood chisel which needs very little hardness removed would be tempered to pale straw, while a spring would be blue. Too much trouble? You're damn right, but I just thought you might be interested to know just how much trouble. I'm sure other methods posted here will do it well enough for digging the garden. |
|
06 Jun 07 - 03:54 PM (#2070186) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: McGrath of Harlow I tried the bodad approach - "You can try bending it by using a pipe of suitable diameter and length and brute force" - using an old metal tent pole I had lying around, and treading on the fork. It worked brilliantly first time and reduced the bend. So I had another go to reduce it a bit more, and the tine broke off. So now I have a three tine fork. And a potential tent peg. "Such is life", to quote Ned Kelly. Or to quote Sandy Denny "Who Knows Where The Tine Goes?" Some great ideas in here anyway. You can rely on the Mudcat to come up with the goods. |
|
06 Jun 07 - 04:14 PM (#2070202) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: bobad Dems the breaks. |
|
06 Jun 07 - 09:22 PM (#2070407) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: The Fooles Troupe If it is a 4 tined garden form, take an angle grinder, and cut off the bent tine. Simple, fast and cheap. Of course, the fork probably won't be all that usable... See John, I'm simpler than you. Hmmm, I think that's what I meant to say... |
|
07 Jun 07 - 04:58 AM (#2070566) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: JohnInKansas As we all know, one may judge the skill of the artisan by the condition of his tools, and the care he/she takes with them. It is an unfortunate fact that the favorite tools do occasionally reach the end of their useful service to the arts we practice; but that need not mean that they must be discarded without respect and honor. As the surviving three-tined spade fork has no practical use in turning the soil, perhaps it deserves to be enshrined in your garden where you can be reminded of the honorable service rendered during its short life. I would suggest that you stick it . Ruffles and flourishes should be sounded at the planting, and each spring at the first bloom, of course. John |
|
07 Jun 07 - 09:31 AM (#2070693) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: The Fooles Troupe You can be almost poetic at times John.... sniff... |
|
08 Jun 07 - 08:39 AM (#2071317) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: Dave the Gnome You're once, twice, three tines a lady? :D |
|
08 Jun 07 - 08:57 AM (#2071331) Subject: RE: BS: Straightening a fork From: The Fooles Troupe three tines a trady? |