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08 Jun 07 - 04:37 PM (#2071694) Subject: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Jim Dixon Lately I have found Google Book Search to be very useful, especially in finding the texts of old Scottish songs. Google has digitized dozens of old collections of them. Of course, if you're looking for a particular song, the best way is still to search using a phrase from the lyrics, but I thought there might be people out there who'd like to browse in some of these books, so I compiled a list of them: Abbotsford Series of the Scottish Poets, by George Eyre-Todd, 1896. Ancient and Modern Scottish Songs, Heroic Ballads, Etc., by George Paton, 1869. Ancient Scotish Melodies: From a Manuscript of the Reign of King James VI, by William Dauney, 1838. Ballads in the Cumberland Dialect, by Robert Anderson, 1815. Beauties of the Scottish Poets, or Harp of Renfrewshire, anonymous, 1821. Early Scottish Melodies, by John Glen, 1900. Gleanings of Scarce Old Ballads, by Peter Buchan, 1891. Love Songs of Scotland: Jewels of the Tender Passion, by Robert W. Douglas, 1901. Modern Scottish Poets: With Biographical and Critical Notices, by David Herschell Edwards, 1897. Scotia's Bards, anonymous, 1856. Scottish Song: Its Wealth, Wisdom, and Social Significance, by John Stuart Blackie, 1889. Scottish Song, by Mary Carlyle Aitken, 1874. Link fixed. --JoeClone, 9-Jun-07. Studies in Folk Song and Popular Poetry, by Alfred Mason Williams, 1895. The Amusing Songster, by Joseph Edwards Carpenter, 1866. The Book of Scottish Poems: Ancient and Modern, by John Ross, 1878. The Harp of Caledonia, by John Struthers, 1821. The Harp of Perthshire, by Robert Ford, 1893. The Harp of Stirlingshire, by William Harvey, 1897. The Illustrated Book of Scottish Songs, anonymous, 1854. The Leading Poets of Scotland, by Walter Jenkinson Kaye, 1891. The Modern Scottish Minstrel, by Charles Rogers, 1856. The Music of the Waters: A Collection of the Sailors' Chanties, or Working Songs of the Sea ..., by Laura Alexandrine Smith, 1888. The Pictorial Book of Ancient Ballad Poetry of Great Britain,..., by Joseph S. Moore, 1853. The Pocket Encyclopedia of Scottish, English, and Irish Songs, anonymous, 1816. The Poets and Poetry of Scotland, by James Grant Wilson, 1875. The Popular Songs of Scotland with Their Appropriate Melodies, by George Farquhar Graham, 1887. The Scottish Ballads, by Robert Chambers, 1829. The Scottish Minstrel: The Songs of Scotland Subsequent to Burns, by Charles Rogers, 1882. The Scottish Songs, by Robert Chambers, 1829. The Songs of England and Scotland, anonymous, 1835. The Songs of Scotland, Ancient and Modern, by Allan Cunningham, 1825. The Songstresses of Scotland, by Sarah Tytler, Jean I. Watson, 1871. The Souvenir Minstrel, by Cornelius Soule Cartée, 1833. The Universal Songster; Or, Museum of Mirth, by George Cruikshank, 1878. |
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08 Jun 07 - 04:50 PM (#2071703) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: katlaughing WOW!!! This is going to be fun to delve into! Thanks!! |
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08 Jun 07 - 11:35 PM (#2071924) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Malcolm Douglas Don't get too excited just yet: this is a raw list of digitized books that Google's webcrawlers have found, rather than an archive. Some of the above are available to the general public online, some are not. Most have been digitized and put online not by Google, but by academic or commercial institutions; and some of these place restrictions on access. With due respect to Jim, an edited list, checked to see which links actually lead to available resources, would be more helpful; and some of the above aren't collections of Scottish songs at all, though all contain enough Scottish references to come up in a Google search. |
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09 Jun 07 - 12:11 AM (#2071930) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: katlaughing Thanks, Malcolm. I have been having a problem with Mozilla not showing up maps and, in this instance, pages of books when I click on them. I've only tried the first few links and I am pretty sure it is my problem, not that of any site, but I still appreciate the information. Maybe those of us who go through the links can post which ones work without restrictions and a list could be generated from that. Still exciting, though.:-) |
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09 Jun 07 - 01:26 AM (#2071946) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Jim Dixon With due respect to Malcolm Douglas, can you give me even one example of one of my links that doesn't lead to a book that can actually be viewed? |
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09 Jun 07 - 10:14 AM (#2072132) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D I believe those books are all there...so far, no problems. I have already downloaded the PDF files of several of them, and am working my way thru the list to see which ones I want. When I first looked at this project a few months ago, I wondered if I should offer them MY copy of - "The Popular Songs of Scotland with Their Appropriate Melodies", by George Farquhar Graham, 1887. ...but I see that they have added it, also. (It was listed as one of F.J. Childs' sources) This is one of the largest and most complete books of Scottish song, and it does have tunes included. The whole resource is amazing. |
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09 Jun 07 - 10:20 AM (#2072137) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: katlaughing Thanks for the note of that one book, Bill. I wasn't sure which one to start with. Have downloaded the pdf for further reading. Looks very interesting! Thanks, again, Jim, for this thread and all of the links. |
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09 Jun 07 - 10:56 AM (#2072157) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Jim I Maybe it's just me but how do you download a pdf of, say, "The Popular Songs of Scotland with Their Appropriate Melodies"? When I click on the link all I get is details of the book with no apparent way to download anything (?) |
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09 Jun 07 - 11:45 AM (#2072196) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: katlaughing When you click on the links above, it should take you to a google page about the book. On that page, over on the left, under a small scan of the front of the book, there are two options: read this book and download a pdf of this book. You ought to be able to click on the pdf and get it that way, IF you have adobe reader installed on your computer. If not, it is free and simple to set up. I think THIS is the latest version. Hope that helps, kat |
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09 Jun 07 - 01:14 PM (#2072243) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Jim McLean I already have The Popular Songs of Scotland with Their Appropriate Melodies", by George Farquhar Graham, 1887, in my library but I tried to read it on the Google site and I have the same problem as Jim I, there is no scan of the book on the page. |
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09 Jun 07 - 03:41 PM (#2072309) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Mick Pearce (MCP) I have downloaded several books from this site before. To see which books you can download you should specify Full View in the Advanced Search option. I believe these are all downloadable. I think the Limited Preview option gets you books you can read online but not download. Others are not downloadable, though some have selections you can view. You should be able to see which of Jim's list is downloadable - there should be a Download PDF button on the page the link takes you to; if it's not there it's not downloadable. Mick |
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09 Jun 07 - 05:49 PM (#2072382) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Malcolm Douglas Since you ask, the following are, so far as I can tell, not available via your links: George Eyre-Todd George Paton John Glen Peter Buchan Robert W. Douglas John Stuart Blackie Mary Carlyle Aitken (the link above doesn't work, incidentally; there needs to be a J on the end of the URL) Alfred Mason Williams (there is a link, but it is to JSTOR, which is available to subscribing institutions and their affiliates only) Joseph Edwards Carpenter John Ross Robert Ford William Harvey Walter Jenkinson Kaye James Grant Wilson George Farquhar Graham Sarah Tytler Universal Songster 'Snippet View' is just that; a few small samples of bits of some pages. Not of any real use, so not indicated above. Though not linked to from Google, the Buchan is available at the Internet Archive: http://www.archive.org/details/ancientballadsan02buchuoft Others of the above may be also, but I haven't time to check at the moment. Of course, I may be missing something at Google. Please let us know if that's the case, and I'm wrong about some or all of this. |
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09 Jun 07 - 07:48 PM (#2072457) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D *shrug*...I'm not sure what might be different for different people, but I went to the George Farquhar Graham item and both read it online and downloaded it. It is 433 pages, and loads almost instantly in Foxit PDFReader or PDF-XChange Viewer (The former opens faster, the latter seems to have a couple of extra features) I am trying some other titles now... |
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09 Jun 07 - 07:57 PM (#2072464) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D Well, I did find the link for Mary Carlyle Aitken was indeed not correct, but when I searched for it, it gave me this link, and the full text and PDF were there, and I downloaded it. http://books.google.com/books?id=r3cCAAAAQAAJ&dq=Mary+Carlyle+Aitken curious... |
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09 Jun 07 - 08:04 PM (#2072472) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D ....as far as I can tell, they are all there. The Cunningham is the only one with no download link, though I was able to read it online. I have not tried every download yet...I'll post if I find any problems. |
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09 Jun 07 - 08:08 PM (#2072475) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Malcolm Douglas That's thoroughly puzzling. Can you provide a precise URL for the pdf? The issue is not what you use to read pdf files, but the fact that several of us can find no link to any pdf of the Farquhar Graham in the first place. I've tried it in five different browsers over two operating systems, with no success at all. |
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09 Jun 07 - 08:26 PM (#2072486) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D The download link is given as http://books.google.com/books/pdf/The_Popular_Songs_of_Scotland_with_Their.pdf?id=eqjVHSYidH0C&output=pdf&sig=5VsH2Zcm6w_8w78I99NkiKyfy9Y I don't know why it is not a direct link....but it worked for me. |
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09 Jun 07 - 08:28 PM (#2072488) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: GUEST,Lighter Malcolm, I find Farquahar Graham downloadable >here: Have you gone directly to Google Books and searched from there? This service of Google, BTW, while sometimes very helpful, is more often infuriating and nearly useless. "Snippet view" my foot! And don't trust *any* of the magazine dates. |
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09 Jun 07 - 08:38 PM (#2072496) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D lighter...I think that link you posted is to the 'read online' version. |
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09 Jun 07 - 08:39 PM (#2072498) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Malcolm Douglas I get a 'not found' message in all browsers. Is there anything missing from the URL? |
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09 Jun 07 - 08:50 PM (#2072509) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D Malcolm...try this page Book search and enter George Farquhar Graham in the exact phrase search box. That took me directly to it. |
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09 Jun 07 - 08:52 PM (#2072511) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D whoops ..that IS the search phrase...but it still took me there. This is the search page |
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09 Jun 07 - 09:33 PM (#2072533) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Malcolm Douglas Thank you; but I do know how to find the advanced search page! I tried that before even my first post to this thread. I don't make comments without checking the facts -so far as is possible- first. I wondered if the problem might be that I didn't have a google account, so I created one. No difference. I still get the same page, with no link to any pdf. Masato's links all work, so far as I can see. I am quite baffled about the Farquhar Graham. So far as I can tell, it doesn't appear either as a 'full view' or 'limited preview' option. What else is there, and where? |
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10 Jun 07 - 10:24 AM (#2072845) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: GUEST,Lighter Bill D, correct. But there's a "download" button on the right of the screen. |
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10 Jun 07 - 11:48 AM (#2072885) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D well, Malcolm, I can only wonder if there is not some security setting or cookie protection in your browser(s)....or even interference by your ISP...(though I can't see why any of those would happen). Could you 'possibly' have set some parameter that precludes your browser(s) accessing those pages? (I even tried Google.UK to see if there was any difference...and found none.) this is what I see when I go the Farquhar Graham page (screen capture in full screen mode) ...and by the way, in trying to help, I am quite aware that you are a competent user of computers, but others may also be reading this...now or in the future. It is BECAUSE this isn't working for at least one person that I made what may seem like obvious points. |
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10 Jun 07 - 12:19 PM (#2072907) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Marje I'm having problems too. Many of the links take me to a Google book page, with further links but with no sign of a download or pdf option. I've found one so far that does have a pdf button, which opens with Acrobat reader. I'm using plain vanilla-flavour IE without any special settings or blocks that I know of. I'm not particularly anxious or curious about this, I just thought I'd make it clear that Malcolm has not suddenly lost his wits or his reading glasses. Marje |
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10 Jun 07 - 12:27 PM (#2072910) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Malcolm, I have the same problem with the earlier links. However, the ones that Masato (Thanks, guy) provided all have links where I can download the file. |
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10 Jun 07 - 01:10 PM (#2072944) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Jim Dixon I think I found the answer, at the Google Book Search Help Center:
Only books in the public domain -- books whose copyrights have expired -- have the download feature available. For users in the United States, this typically means books published before 1923. For users outside the U.S., we make determinations based on appropriate local laws. As with all of our decisions related to Google Book Search content, we're conservative in our reading of both copyright law and the known facts surrounding a particular book.... |
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10 Jun 07 - 01:14 PM (#2072947) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D Once in the Google search area, it seems that there are various ways to look at the books and get the downloads: all the following URLs get me to the page to view.. or the download of Graham. http://books.google.com/books?id=eqjVHSYidH0C http://books.google.com/books?as_q=&num=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=George+Farquhar+Graham&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_libcat=0&as_brr=0&as_vt=&as_auth=&as_pub=&as_drrb=c&as_miny=&as_maxy=&as_isbn= http://books.google.com/books?id=eqjVHSYidH0C&pg=PA2&dq=%22george+farquhar+graham%22#PPR8,M1 very curious. (Malcolm said he has used different browsers....I, so far, have used only Opera9)...perhaps I will try to access things in other browsers in my collection..(4 versions of Opera, 2 of Firefox, I.E., and 2 weird little ones) |
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10 Jun 07 - 01:17 PM (#2072950) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D hmmm...Jim Dixon may indeed have at least part of the answer. *IF* that is the case, I will be happy to put any .PDF requested where Google does not have to take responsibility. |
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10 Jun 07 - 01:19 PM (#2072951) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D note this collection of resources for online storage http://www.freepims.com/id39.html |
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10 Jun 07 - 01:21 PM (#2072953) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Jim McLean I think Jim Dixon's correct. I tried most things yesterday but couldn't access the GFG page, but I have the book anyway. By the way, to those of you who can read it, what do you make of GFG's comment on Robert Tannahill under The Braes o Balquhidder? He starts by saying Tannahill committed suicide, which is correct, but then there's a strange paragraph about him dying in his bed. He must be talking about another poet but it's a trifle confusing. Any suggestions? |
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10 Jun 07 - 01:37 PM (#2072959) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: greg stephens Well, I can't get at the Graham book, looking at any of the links and advice provided. |
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10 Jun 07 - 01:44 PM (#2072968) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D I had to go get my hard copy, as the page numbering systen is different in the version I downloaded....but I think it is the case that he is referring to some other poet...though he certainly could have phrased it better. |
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10 Jun 07 - 01:47 PM (#2072971) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Jim McLean Yes, Bill D, I think you'r right. It's just that Tannahill himself expressed doom and gloom in a letter he wrote shortly before he died and I thought maybe GFG confused the two. |
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10 Jun 07 - 02:01 PM (#2072986) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D Ok...for those who can get large files, I have uploaded it as a test to one og those storage sites.... http://www.content-type.com/345596911/The_Popular_Songs_of_Scotland_with_Their.pdf.htm (I'm not sure it will help you, greg) let me know if this works. |
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10 Jun 07 - 02:14 PM (#2072999) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Got an error message, Bill |
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10 Jun 07 - 02:28 PM (#2073010) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Malcolm Douglas That's a distinct possibility, Jim. It hadn't occurred to me as an explanation because I have no reason to think that the book isn't well out of copyright in the UK, too; as, so far as I know, are all those in your list for which I got no results beyond a listing or 'snippet view'. Perhaps Google hasn't actually checked the details and is just being careful. The fact that George, in Canada, gets the same results that I do might suggest that. How annoying. Although print copies of most of the 'missing' books can be picked up reasonably cheaply, and many are just verse anthologies without any particularly useful material in them from my point of view, I need to refer to so many books at times that it's useful not to have to find money for them all. Perhaps I should try contacting Google for any comments they may have; though I rather doubt that I would get anything other than a general reply that won't address the specifics. I originally tried to access the Farquhar Graham some time ago, but gave up, assuming that there was no text available. Resuming my efforts when you posted your list here, I found that most (though not all, as I mentioned) of the links led, for me, to references or 'snippets' only. Naturally I assumed that that was the case generally (it evidently is for UK and Canadian users, at any rate), though obviously I was wrong about that; so my apologies for doubting you. I have wasted several hours now examining source codes and all manner of stuff; it is time to assume that Jim is right, and give up. I suppose that any further lists should include a note to the effect that much of the material is restricted to users in the USA. PS: Thanks to Bill for trying to help on access; and for putting up the pdf in 'neutral territory', where I had no problem getting hold of it. The main interest of this particular book, from my point of view, lies in the historical notes attached to the songs. |
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10 Jun 07 - 02:42 PM (#2073020) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Bill D, I clicked on the Download Ticket thing, and it came back with a messagE "Error on Page". Nothing else seemed to happen. Weird |
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10 Jun 07 - 03:05 PM (#2073033) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D hmmm...George, it has some sort of javascript access control. (I get this sometimes, as I use Proxomitron, and have to disable it to get to some of these storage sites) I will see if I can figure out which sites have the fewest hassles in downloading, and try to put it at an easier spot a little later. Good, Malcolm....I'm glad 'something' finally worked. |
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10 Jun 07 - 03:07 PM (#2073036) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: katlaughing I got a weird page with the title of the book, but nothing else except ad stuff, Bill at http://www.content-type.com/345596911/The_Popular_Songs_of_Scotland_with_Their.pdf.htm |
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10 Jun 07 - 03:48 PM (#2073063) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Mick Pearce (MCP) kat - I was able to download it. For me the process was: In the Free Download Access section, click the 1st link under marked Wait in line & download. This gave a popup telling me that the download was ready and to click the link marked Download Ready (which replaced the Wait in line.. link). I right-clicked this to Save As and it was fine (it's about 22Mb). (I was having exactly the same problems as Malcolm when I tried the file and I think Jim Dixon has found the solution. Thanks to BillD for putting the file up!). Mick |
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10 Jun 07 - 03:58 PM (#2073069) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca kat's information helped. I turned off the Popup blocker, and refreshed the page. The download is now proceeding. Thanks everyone. |
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10 Jun 07 - 04:01 PM (#2073071) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Sorry. That was Mick's information. Nothing told me there was a popup until I saw Mick's message. |
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10 Jun 07 - 05:36 PM (#2073148) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D Yes...popup blockers are a help for a lot of things, but they can be a hassle when they keep you from getting what you want. The better they do their job, the more you forget they are there. Anyway, as time goes on, I'll try to help those with denied access to get past the |
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10 Jun 07 - 06:20 PM (#2073175) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Q (Frank Staplin) Bill D- Thanks for help offer- Here's one that my system says 32 minutes to load- others are quick like a bunny. "Music of the Waters," Laura Smith, a book of sailor, water and sea songs, is available from Gutenberg, but pdf takes 32 minutes to load and multiply spaced lines in parts are a nuisance (Univ. Toronto). The same book is at this site; it can't be downloaded, but material is easily found and one can copy what is needed: http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/music-waters/music-waters%20-%200017.htm Music of the Waters
[there was a comma instead of a dot after WWW. Best to copy URLs instead of typing them...Mudelf} |
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10 Jun 07 - 06:59 PM (#2073202) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D hmmm, Q...my search of Gutenberg doesn't find either Laura Smith or "Music of the Waters"...but I'll peek thru the online version you note. Oh...wait...I see. It also is at Google books...ok. |
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10 Jun 07 - 07:19 PM (#2073215) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Malcolm Douglas Also in several formats at the Internet Archive (University of Toronto copy): http://www.archive.org/details/musicofwaterscol00smituoft The pdf is nearly 80 mb, but the 'flip book' and plain text options should be manageable for slower connections. |
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11 Jun 07 - 10:32 AM (#2073647) Subject: RE: Old Scottish songs at Google Book Search From: Bill D Yes...got it now. I can see I am going to be burning a lot of archival CDs. Maybe I will even label and file them clearly, breaking with my tradition of cryptic markings and random piles. |
