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20 Jun 07 - 01:16 AM (#2081831) Subject: HELP: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: JWB There are two chanteys (that I know of) which contain a reference to "long tail blue", viz.: ONE MORE DAY Get out yer long tail blue, my Johnnie One More Day Make yer port and take yer due, my Johnnie One More Day. and RANZO RAY We're putting on our long tail blue to dance the girls around... I've not come across this expression in any of the reading I've done, only in the lyrics of these two songs. What does it mean? Jerry |
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20 Jun 07 - 03:36 AM (#2081866) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: masato sakurai Isn't this the thing? Title: My Long Tail Blue. Composer, Lyricist, Arranger: na Publication: New York: J.L. Hewitt & Co., 239 Broadway, n.d.. Form of Composition: strophic with chorus Instrumentation: piano and voice First Line: I've come to town to see you all, I ask you how d'ye do? First Line of Chorus: O! for the long tail blue. Oh! for the long tail blue |
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20 Jun 07 - 04:06 AM (#2081878) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: Leadfingers That's the beastie - A Long Tailed Blue Coat! |
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20 Jun 07 - 04:11 AM (#2081881) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: John MacKenzie Lyrics wouldn't stand up in this day and age would they? G. |
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20 Jun 07 - 04:22 AM (#2081889) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: Megan L Ach i dont know "Put on yer wee blue hoodie boys." Nah perhaps yer right :) |
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20 Jun 07 - 04:31 AM (#2081896) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: GUEST,doc.tom After uniform was finally introduced into the British fleet just before Nelson's day, it gradually developed into different forms of uniform (e.g. No.1s - etc.) The long-tailed blue was the dress uniform for official or for 'dress' occasions and definitely for on-shore activity to impress the girls! Tom Brown |
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20 Jun 07 - 05:00 AM (#2081906) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: John MacKenzie Here is an interesting article about the Blue Coat school in Liverpool. There are several of theses schools in the UK, and I don't know if they are related one to another, except in the relationship of the colour blue to charities. Interesting though that this particular one was founded by a Master Mariner in 1708, which sort of gives the link to the Dress Blue' coat of mariners in those days. Giok |
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20 Jun 07 - 05:46 AM (#2081937) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Masato's link suggests a possible (blackface) minstrel connection - as do a few other Google hits. Regards |
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20 Jun 07 - 07:07 AM (#2081980) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: Trevor It's a parrot of course! |
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20 Jun 07 - 11:36 AM (#2082245) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: Q (Frank Staplin) The long tail blue coat showed up in minstrel song; perhaps inspired by the British naval dress or perhaps by the fashion of the time, but I don't have good references on fashions of the past. I think a previous thread discussed the minstrel song. |
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20 Jun 07 - 02:01 PM (#2082399) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: Q (Frank Staplin) "Long Tail Blue" was published 1834 or earlier; a copy with date 1837 has several songs and the single sheet music copies lack a printed date. The Levy collection has several. A longer version "as sung by Mr. W. E. Pennington" and published in Baltimore by Geo. Willig has a typewritten attachment with the date "circa 1834. Sung by Mr Dixon." This version was posted in thread 69384" Long Tail Blue The Traditional Ballads Index lists George Washington Dixon, 1827?, as possible composer. Roud 1287. |
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20 Jun 07 - 02:24 PM (#2082417) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Wackypedia has information on the dress uniform with long tail blue, but there should be better references. Windsor uniform A blue or black tail coat is much used in dressage. For Royal Navy use at Royal Naval College, 1822, see: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~ausnavy/Navy_Life.htm |
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20 Jun 07 - 07:14 PM (#2082669) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: Snuffy
Discuss |
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21 Jun 07 - 12:21 AM (#2082799) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: JWB Snuffy, my thoughts exactly. I'm no historian of fashion, yet all the early 19th century images of sailors ashore that I've seen -- even of RN swabs -- show them in short jackets. Perhaps by the 1830s and 40s the fashions had changed, especially if a song about a particular style of coat in the minstrel shows was a big hit, and merchant seamen were buying the latest togs without any thought of a relationship to naval uniform. Being away from home I can't delve into my chantey collections for help; it would be fascinating to try and link the age of the two chanteys to the period of popularity of the Long Tail Blue song. I'm feeling persuaded by Masato's and Q's links that perhaps the chantey reference is to the 1835 equivalent of the zoot suit, white T-shirt and pegged trousers, or leather warm-up jacket. Is there any way of discovering how popular Mr. Dixon's song was? Jerry |
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21 Jun 07 - 04:46 AM (#2082876) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: The Doctor In 'Cawsand Bay' the girl, having got her man discharged from the navy, then 'got a shore tailor to rig her young sailor in fine nankeen breeches and a long blue-tailed coat. He looked like a squire for all to admire, with his dimity handkerchief tied round his throat.' The song was recorded by Dave Burland on his 1972 LP 'Dave Burland'. (If you only hear and don't see the words then it becomes the only folk song I know to refer to an iconic 60s television presenter.) |
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25 Jun 07 - 07:59 PM (#2086939) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: GUEST I don't have any references but surely this is just a way of saying , "Put on your best gladrags boys, we're going ashore". maybe longtailed blue coats were high fashion at the time of both the shanties and the minstrel song although given the improvisational nature of shanties they, or these verses in them, could have come along after the minstrel song, maybe a long time after. |
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25 Jun 07 - 10:18 PM (#2086991) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: JWB I have to confess I don't get The Doctor's reference. Am I too young? On the wrong continent? So, three sailor song references to a long-tail blue (coat). It's adding up, on my calculator, to a fashion statement. But The Doctor's excerpt from 'Cawsand Bay' begs the question, "What is dimity?' Anything like calico? Or chintz, p'raps? I'm just woefully undereducated on historical fabrics. Is there a reference out there? |
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25 Jun 07 - 10:26 PM (#2086996) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Dimity- A sheer cotton fabric, plain weave in stripes or checks. In other words, a good hanky. (Webster's Collegiate Dictionary) |
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26 Jun 07 - 08:17 AM (#2087268) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: GUEST,BobL JWB: it's to a bloke by the name of Shaw Taylor |
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26 Jun 07 - 11:16 AM (#2087415) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: The Doctor Shaw Taylor, although an actor, is best remembered for presenting Police Five, a forerunner of Crimewatch, and that is the sort of joke my friends love me for. Nankeen, since no-one asked, is a sturdy yellow or buff coloured cotton cloth, often used for trousers, and getting its name from Nanking in China where it was first made. |
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26 Jun 07 - 07:01 PM (#2087804) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: bubblyrat But DID his Long Tail Blue make Nan keen ?? |
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26 Jun 07 - 07:30 PM (#2087824) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Commedians! There's one in every.... But someone is bound to ask about nankeen-nankin - A durable brownish yellow cotton fabric orig. loomed by hand in China. Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. |
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26 Jun 07 - 07:41 PM (#2087829) Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs? From: Charley Noble STOP! STOP! STOP! This is too much information for my poor brain. I only have some much memory left and if I imput more other, maybe, important stuff will be displaced. Charley Noble |