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23 Jun 07 - 03:20 PM (#2085028) Subject: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: GUEST,dianavan Los Angeles Times WASHINGTON — "The White House said Friday that, like Vice President Dick Cheney's office, President Bush's office is exempt from a presidential order requiring government agencies that handle classified national-security information to submit to oversight by an independent federal watchdog. The executive order Bush issued in March 2003 covers all government agencies that are part of the executive branch and, although it doesn't specifically say so, was not meant to apply to the vice president's office or the president's office, a White House spokesman said." |
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23 Jun 07 - 04:37 PM (#2085070) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: artbrooks The law of averages, we hope. |
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23 Jun 07 - 04:46 PM (#2085077) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: John on the Sunset Coast One would think they all would, and maybe one or two do. |
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23 Jun 07 - 04:52 PM (#2085082) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: Nick E The law of gravity. But it is hard to see as Dick is sagging in an undisclosed location. |
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23 Jun 07 - 09:03 PM (#2085226) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: SINSULL Cheney claims he is not part of the Executive Branch. Really? Given all the security lapses stemming from him and his aides I believe he may be forced to comply. We'll see. Shades of Richard Nixon. |
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23 Jun 07 - 09:17 PM (#2085237) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: frogprince Very hard to top Cheney for pure unmitigated arrogance; has the puppet on his knee ever breathed a word of disagreement with him about anything? |
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23 Jun 07 - 10:13 PM (#2085274) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: Riginslinger The law of supply and demand. Dick Cheney has proven himself to be the crookedest man on the face of the planet, so in Republican circles he's going to be in great demand. |
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23 Jun 07 - 10:21 PM (#2085283) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: katlaughing karmic law will get him...I hope it's sooner than later. |
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23 Jun 07 - 10:26 PM (#2085286) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: Bobert Hmmmmm??? Mulbury v. Madison has been overturneed by, ahhhhhhhh, a vice president who thinks he is exempt from obeying the law because he doesn't see the vice president as part of the "executive branch" of government??? This is a major stretch on his part and one that I can't believe that he can actually, deep down inside, believe... But I will say thei for him... He is imaginative... Next thing Bush will say that he isn't a part of the "executive barnch" and quity cooperating with the Congress entirely... The funny thing is that these two bozos have solidified power within the executive branch like nuthing we ahve seen in modern times and now that wnat us to beleive that they aren't part of ther executive branch of government??? Beam me up... Bobert |
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24 Jun 07 - 09:33 AM (#2085525) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: Greg F. That's MARbury there, Bobert old bud. Ol' Crooked Dick has been de facto president since the get-go. Almost makes me feel sorry for Ol' Tricky Dick. Guess this should be expected when a Dick gets elected president. The Road to Hell Is Paved With.... Republicans. |
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24 Jun 07 - 10:00 AM (#2085534) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: katlaughing with dicks! |
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24 Jun 07 - 10:36 AM (#2085560) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: Rapparee If they're not part of the government anymore, isn't Pelosi now president? |
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24 Jun 07 - 10:37 AM (#2085561) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: katlaughing Looks as though the Democrats might force his hand: click Here's part of it, but it is worth clicking to look at their graph: Following Vice President Dick Cheney's assertion that his office is not a part of the executive branch of the US government, Democratic Caucus Chairman Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-IL) plans to introduce an amendment to the the Financial Services and General Government Appropriations bill to cut funding for Cheney's office. The amendment to the bill that sets the funding for the executive branch will be considered next week in the House of Representatives. "The Vice President has a choice to make. If he believes his legal case, his office has no business being funded as part of the executive branch," said Emanuel in a statement released to RAW STORY. "However, if he demands executive branch funding he cannot ignore executive branch rules. At the very least, the Vice President should be consistent. This amendment will ensure that the Vice President's funding is consistent with his legal arguments." |
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24 Jun 07 - 12:46 PM (#2085670) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: JohnInKansas The Washington Post has just issued the first of a four-part report on Herr Cheney. The first installment is quite long, but appears to be fairly well researched: WP: Cheney exerts influence out of public view. It should be interesting to see what is yet to come. Both Bush and Cheney have claimed that there is "precedent" for the executive branch being "exempt from the law." The claims seem based in part on what they claim were similar actions by some former presidents. Most of us have always believed that a "precedent," in the most used sense is only established after judicial review and the rendering of a proper opinion; but the argument of Bush, and particularly of Cheney, would establish that while there was a serial murderer active in my town who killed more than a dozen people over a period of more than 30 years, a precedent making it okay for others to murder had been established? Of course the serial killer was caught, tried, and convicted, which overturns that precedent, but prior to the trial the claim of "precedents" would exactly equate to the claims of this administration.... ? Both Bush and Cheney have frequently and repeatedly asserted that they are above the law, citing both the laws passed by Congress and International law as exemplified in the Geneva Convention. They have claimed the "right" to act in secret, and to "do whatever" to both US citizens and any others, without respect for any other authority. They have claimed the "right" to imprison, without charge, "anyone they want to," and have created a secret court, the membership of which is unknown to the public, and which consists entirely of those appointed by ONE PERSON hand-picked by Herr Cheney (The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court is the only person who selects members of the court, or who legally knows who they are.) Opinions of the secret court are mostly unpublished, except when Herr Bush and Herr Cheney wish to claim a "legal point." The "precedent" most obviously applied by them, is that of Hitler, Goering, and Himmler. (But that's just my opinion, I suppose.) John |
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24 Jun 07 - 05:34 PM (#2085891) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: Charley Noble I would love to see Cheney brought before an international tribunal for war crimes. There is no one in recent history who has done more to earn such a call. Charley Noble |
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24 Jun 07 - 08:45 PM (#2085994) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: Bobert Well, John, I tore out that entire 1st of the 4 part series, which will take a couple days to plunge thru... Hope it exposes some of the truth... I'd just like to get a list of the folks that were involved in writing that stupid "energy policy"... But that probably won't happen... Bobert |
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24 Jun 07 - 10:24 PM (#2086048) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: SharonA Sure, there are laws that apply to Cheney. The problem is in making them stick once they're applied. We need a superlative superglue. |
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25 Jun 07 - 03:36 AM (#2086160) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: JohnInKansas Part 2 of the 4 part Washington Post series on Herr Cheney has now been posted: WP: Cheney reshaped limits on interrogation "His lawyer, they said, has recently restated Cheney's argument that when courts and Congress "purport to" limit the commander in chief's warmaking authority, he has the constitutional prerogative to disregard them." Sounds a lot like Adolf speaking - to me. [Note: this same post also entered at the "other Cheney thread" as it's not clear as yet that one thread is most read.] John |
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25 Jun 07 - 12:50 PM (#2086569) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: JohnInKansas A note for those interested in archiving the WP series or just reading off-line. If you access it at the MSNBC site linked above, the second installation is broken up into 8 or 9 separate pages. If you click the "Print this" button at the bottom of the first installation, you should get the entire article in one piece, with a popup printer menu. If you just cancel the printer menu, you can copy and paste the article in your word processor. In Word, Edit|Paste Special|Formatted Text (rtf)should paste in a clean form, with links that actually work for the "related info." (From some sites, even the "printer friendly" versions are full of frames, text boxes, ads, and other junk; but most articles at MSNBC give a very clean rtf paste from the printable version.) The "exhibits" that go with the first two installments of this are mostly fairly impressive, and should be checked out. Links to pdf items in the pasted Word version may balk on a "Save Target As" selection, but the pdf should load from the link, after which you can choose whether to save on your own machine for leisurely reading. The content is difficult enough. One might as well make the reading as easy as possible. John |
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25 Jun 07 - 02:55 PM (#2086699) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: katlaughing Thanks for the instructions, John, esp. that they aren't in medieval language!**BG** I will be able to read this all much easier that way. He sounds like Adolf to me, too. Of course, he does come from Wyoming where people can be murdered and, for the right price, it gets ruled a suicide, to save a rich oil family's social standing. |
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25 Jun 07 - 03:53 PM (#2086750) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: Sorcha As I said, he should just buy a desert island, move there, and be his very own gubmint. Wyoming sure doesn't want him back, at least part of us. Yea, kat....gotta keep that oil flowing, ya know.... |
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25 Jun 07 - 11:21 PM (#2087015) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: katlaughing Interesting video/song over on youtube about the shrub and cheney: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zSfZ9juF3M. A little to "nice" sounding for how I feel, but the end is very good and I like that it can reach so many people. It was posted by someone connected to give2shitz.com. One can sign an anti-war petition at that site. Please distribute both addys to as many people as possible, IF you agree with it, etc. |
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25 Jun 07 - 11:37 PM (#2087021) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: Amos From Democrats.com Dick Cheney is a War Criminal Dick Cheney is in the news because his lawyers say he's " not an entity within the Executive Branch " and therefore does not have to obey its laws. Rep. Rahm Emanuel wants to cut off the funds for Cheney's office until he admits he's part of the Executive Branch. Of course we support this, but there is an infinitely more important issue that is getting buried by this sideshow. After 6.5 years of Vice Presidential tyranny, the Washington Post is finally reporting on Cheney's decisive role in key administration crimes like authorizing torture . "The vice president's office played a central role in shattering limits on coercion in U.S. custody, commissioning and defending legal opinions that the Bush administration has since portrayed as the initiatives, months later, of lower-ranking officials. Cheney and his allies, according to more than two dozen current and former officials, pioneered a novel distinction between forbidden 'torture' and permitted use of 'cruel, inhuman or degrading' methods of questioning. " That "novel distinction" may exist in Cheney's sick mind, but it does not exist in the Third Geneva Convention, which prohibits torture, cruelty, and outrages upon personal dignity, particularly humiliating and degrading treatment. Because of Cheney's evil deeds, dozens of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, Baghram Air Force Base, and secret CIA prisons were tortured, raped, and murdered. And little has changed since the scandal was first reported three years ago, because Dick Cheney used bureaucratic sabotage and signing s Perhaps an international court will someday prosecute Cheney for war crimes. But until then, surely torture is a "high crime and misdemeanor" that demands impeachment . Over 37,000 of you have urged your Representatives to Impeach Cheney First : http://www.democrats.com/peoplesemailnetwork/73 if you have not signed this petition, please do so now. Also please email Speaker Pelosi and the Judiciary Committee to start hearings on Rep. Dennis Kucinich's H. Res. 333, Articles of Impeachment for Vice President Cheney, which has 7 co-sponsors: http://www.democrats.com/topelosiandjudiciary A |
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26 Jun 07 - 03:16 AM (#2087096) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: GUEST,dianavan "New revelations that Vice President Dick Cheney has been behind the now-failed effort to cover up an $80-100 billion criminal slush fund, run through the British arms cartel BAE Systems, adds new urgency to Lyndon LaRouche's longstanding demand that Vice President Dick Cheney be impeached or otherwise removed from office for high crimes and misdemeanors." http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/06/25/bae_lar_demands_impeach.asp |
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26 Jun 07 - 11:52 AM (#2087449) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: Greg F. I would love to see Cheney brought before an international tribunal for war crimes. Ditto, but don't anybody hold their breath on this one. There is no one in recent history who has done more to earn such a call. Well, there's that Nobel Laureate War Criminal Henry Kissinger- or perhaps he isn't 'recent' enough - tho he's still putting his oar in on a regular basis. |
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26 Jun 07 - 12:47 PM (#2087483) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: GUEST,petr I guess if his office had to submit to those security guidelines, it would have implications for that leak to discredit Joseph Wilson. |
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26 Jun 07 - 01:40 PM (#2087538) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: Donuel the law of the jungle. |
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26 Jun 07 - 06:14 PM (#2087756) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: Sorcha Where's _________ when we need him? Oh never mind...I'm sure the feebies watch this site. All a bunch of Red Terrorists here, ya know. |
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27 Jun 07 - 11:38 AM (#2088277) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: katlaughing There's an interesting op/ed piece, on cheney & the Constitution, in The Nation with some historical background on the office of vice president. Worth a read, imo. |
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27 Jun 07 - 04:02 PM (#2088491) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: curmudgeon Maybe there's hope--Tom |
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27 Jun 07 - 04:04 PM (#2088492) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: JohnInKansas The four-part series on Cheney by the Washington Post has been completed. I got the original series all from MSNBC, however the individual articles contain no links to other articles in the series, at MSNBC or at the WP website at the locations where they originally appeared. No links that I can find from MSNBC or at sites linked from there at WP give any indication of how to get from one part to another, if one wants the whole series. The first article, Part 1, has "disappeared itself" from MSNBC and from all links I've found from there to WP, the original publisher. This may be temporary while the article is being archived, so I'll include the original link. The article in The Nation that Kat linked above does include a link to a reference article, at the Washington Post site, where Part 1 appears, but under a different title. The "new" posting of Part 1 does appear to have an "about the series" link that possibly will tie the four articles together. Part 1: WP: Cheney exerts influence out of public view [The original posting, not functional 26 June 07.] Part 1:A Different Understanding [New location at WP] Part 2: WP: Cheney reshaped limits on interrogation Part 3: WP: Cheney's back stage decision-making Part 4: WP: Cheney's hand in environmental laws The first two parts will be most interesting to international observers. Parts 3 and 4 deal mostly with how Herr Cheney has abused his power to favor his … patrons. (I thought of another word, but …) There are differences in the several postings of each part of the series. At WP, most "related exhibits" seem to be to Wiki articles, while the MSNBC postings more frequently provided links to the same stuff but at "more official" sources. The MSNBC articles seem to include more easily saved pdf postings. Anyone who may want to "capture" the series may be advised to do it while it remains accessible, even if you don't intend to study it now.(?) John |
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27 Jun 07 - 04:12 PM (#2088503) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: JohnInKansas Parts 1 and 2 of the WP Cheney series include numerous "exhibits." Those who get to the articles in time can use links in the articles to look at the ones of interest in context. For convenience, the original links from the articles are collected, and can be considered a "laundry list" of precedents that make Cheney's performance questionable. Of course they'll have little meaning without the articles to show context, but they may have more general interest. I have not rechecked all of these links at time of posting, but they are mostly from "stable" sites. They should work, but I won't guarantee them all. Exhibits for Part 1: Authorization for Use of Military Force, September 18, 2001, Public Law 107-40 [S. J. RES. 23] Cheney's Advice to Baker in 1980 President issues military order Cheney remarks to Chamber of Commerce Gonzales Addington memo Jan 25, 2001 [pdf] Exhibits for Part 2: The War Crimes Act of 1996 Justice Department classified opinion (on torture) on Aug. 1, 2002 [pdf] Washington Post report on torture memo Cheney "edit" of OMB budget [pdf] Geneva Convention 21 October 1950 (reference is to Common Article 3) McCain's "Detainee Treatment Act of 2005" SCOTUS Decision on military tribunals Military Commissions Act [pdf] DOD Directive 2310.01E, the Department of Defense Detainee Program [pdf] |
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27 Jun 07 - 04:37 PM (#2088531) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: katlaughing John, thank you. I have captured each of the articles. Are the exhibits going to remain online, do you think, or should I "capture" each of them, too? |
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27 Jun 07 - 05:47 PM (#2088588) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: JohnInKansas kat - If you hover your mouse over a link, IE at least shows the URL on the bottom bar. Most of the links from the MSNBC versions are to standard reference sites where the items linked should be in permanent archives. The couple that are to MSNBC and/or WP sites may be a little more likely to evaporate, but are mostly old enough that they've probably gone to a permanent archive, so I'd expect them to be "stable" for a reasonable time. Of course, Cheney might just decide he has the authority to "erase" all history, so one never knows for sure. The articles themselves should eventually find a stable place, and the second link to Part 1 may be an archive. The concern is that the links to the articles, that work now, may not be the permanent ones - yet - and hunting them up later may be more difficult. John |
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27 Jun 07 - 06:00 PM (#2088600) Subject: RE: BS: Are there any laws that apply to Cheney? From: katlaughing Thanks, John. I have the articles saved as per your instructions. Wasn't sure if I needed to do the same with the exhibits. |