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05 Jul 07 - 09:23 PM (#2095204) Subject: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: Little Hawk I never saw this one when it originally came out, but I finally rented it. It's extraordinary, totally gripping, amazingly well acted, and wretchedly depressing. I don't think I've ever seen a movie with greater impact or a more tragic theme. It's just a stunningly powerful film. |
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05 Jul 07 - 11:45 PM (#2095283) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: Stilly River Sage That's the one with the woman killing men who offered her rides when she's hitchhiking? Wournos. Such a grim subject. Jean Smart played her in a television movie, Charlize Theron in the film. Who can imagine two beautiful actresses wanting to alter themselves and then the submerge into such a character. I didn't watch either one. SRS |
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06 Jul 07 - 12:09 AM (#2095294) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: Little Hawk That was my initial reaction to it also, Stilly. I had no desire to ever watch such a movie. But then I finally did. She wasn't hitchhiking, she was hooking...at the lowest and grittiest level of sheer survival, having led a life from the earliest age which did not really prepare her to do anything else. Yeah, you bet it's a grim subject. I couldn't imagine it (beautiful actresses wanting to alter themselves and then the submerge into such a character) before seeing the movie. I can imagine it now. People who still have anything much in life are terrified of street people, and of life when it sinks that low. I think the reason why that is, they are deeply afraid inside that it could happen to them someday...that they could be that alone, that hopeless, that much of an outcast, that undesirable, that powerless in the face of the general society around them. Take away someone's money. All of it. Take away their dignity. Take away their family. Take away their friends. Take away their ability and basic knowledge of even how to get a normal job. Take away their home and all their possessions. Put them in the middle of this society, dropped at the edge of a street or a highway. It happens to people, people who might have been fine, given better circumstances. Make them realize that there is probably nothing left they could possibly do that would change their situation...except, oh, well...they could still do something to make it even worse, in the next five minutes or the next half hour. And tomorrow? More of the same. Until you die. That's terrifying. It could happen to anyone under the right circumstances. This movie was powerful because it made you feel for the people in it. Both the perpetrators and (in most cases) the victims. It's a simply heartbreaking movie. |
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06 Jul 07 - 01:06 AM (#2095312) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: Little Hawk Here's what I would call a pretty even-handed quote from a rather good article about Aileen Wuornos, the woman the movie is based on: "However, signs of Aileen's (damaged) mental health can be seen even at an early age. She was never able as a child to form healthy relationships. Her father abandoned her before she was born. Her mother abandoned her shortly after she was born. Her strict grandparents were never able to get her under control, frequently resorting to physical abuse, sexual abuse, and neglect. She admitted also to having sexual relations with her brother. She admitted to using recreational drugs. She was pregnant by age fourteen. Any one of these factors can have a massive impact on child development, combining all the factors likely just made things worse. During Aileen's short marriage to Lewis Fell, it became evident that Aileen was incapable of entering into a healthy relationship. Even married, she would continue the reckless, barfly lifestyle, hitchhiking, drugs, and prostitution. Fell's behavior made it clear that he had fallen in love with Aileen, and tried to provide for her a better life. Aileen, on the other hand, did not seem to understand this, rather viewing Lewis as something to fall back on when she needed it. When Fell had enough of Aileen's behavior, he left her. In his eyes, he could not take seeing the woman he loved on such a reckless path. In Aileen's eyes, Fell was just like every other man in her life, he abandoned her. For most of her life, Aileen supported herself by prostitution, or by stealing valuable items from people which she would later pawn, or by being a pool hustler. She never was able to maintain a proper job, and with her lifestyle, it was unlikely she would ever have been taken seriously when it came to employment. Without proper education, support, or vocational training, the only way Aileen had to fulfill her human needs was to turn to prostitution, hustling, or larceny. This does not excuse such behavior however it can be noted that Aileen did not know any better. When Aileen met Tyria Moore, further signs of her (deteriorating) mental health were clearly evident. The two quickly became friends. Tyria had fallen in love with Aileen. The more they were together and the stronger the bond between the two women got, Tyria was able to offer the one thing nobody else in Aileen's life was able to - love. As Tyria entered into what could be described as a lesbian relationship with Aileen, Aileen never saw things in those terms. Aileen could never see herself as a lesbian - however, if entering into a lesbian relationship was the only way she could find someone who would love her and not abandon her, that is what she felt she needed. In Aileen's mind, when Tyria left her (when it became clear that the two were being investigated by the police) Aileen did not feel abandoned. It became clear, especially in Aileen's confession, that it was an emotional decision on both their behalf that the two separate. Aileen knew she hurt her friend, and she knew things were about to get worse. Separation was the only way to help shield Tyria from the chaos that Aileen knew was likely to follow. Aileen's confession was a product of trying to shield the only woman she ever loved and who ever loved her." *I added the italics in the above excerpt. I also added the bracketed words (damaged) and (deteriorating). |
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06 Jul 07 - 06:39 AM (#2095484) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: kendall There was a woman back home who used to park in an obvious spot, lure men into her car, seduce them, then pulled a gun and tried to blow their brains out. Apparently, she was better at sex than as a gun slinger. Poor soul, I guess mid life was too much for her. |
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06 Jul 07 - 07:23 AM (#2095508) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: SINSULL Now why is that more funny than depressing? |
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06 Jul 07 - 12:59 PM (#2095727) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: Little Hawk Well, watch the movie, I guess. Nothing will seem funny for awhile after that. I knew a woman, the sister of another woman I went out with. Let's call her (the sister) "J" and the woman I went out with "A". J was a very unstable character who could have done well in life if not for the tremendous levels of anger she carried inside. The 2 sisters had grown up in an extremely dysfunctional family. The mother and father were both alcoholics, as were most other people in the immediate area around there. They and most of the people they knew were also chronically unemployed and on welfare. Their father, still a rather young man at the time, fell down a flight of stairs (due to being drunk) and died when "A" was around age 10. Both sisters were raped and sexually abused by various "friends" and relatives on numerous occasions. Both were later placed in a series of foster homes, along with their brother, and further instances of sexual abuse occurred in several of the foster homes. The brother ended up committing suicide at age 20. The girls went through a series of unsucessful relationships with men. "J" was apparently very good looking back then, and she was good at finding boyfriends, but she was too angry and volatile to stay with them very long. The strangest thing about "J" was her sudden mood swings. She could be absolutely charming, lively, and entertaining, great fun to be around...and then suddenly she would take offence over something and flare up into a bitter, raging fury...at which point it was hell being around her. It didn't matter who you were or what was going on, you never knew when this rage would come pouring out of her at you over some seemingly trivial thing that she attached great significance to. It was frightening, and it resulted in people avoiding her if they could. This made it basically almost impossible for "J" to hold down a job or sustain any relationship, unless she could find someone who had some emotional need to be abused, punished on a regular basis. I can understand why "J" would have been angry. She went through hell as a child, and was abused by a lot of people. She learned to trust no one. The same was true of her sister, "A". They both basically trusted no one, were certain that no one could ever love them, considered themselevs unlovable, and expected to be betrayed by anyone they were close to. Such expectations become self-fulfilling, because no one can put up with being around someone like that for very long. It's too stressful. Living with "A" was a very painful experience, and I lived with her for 3 years. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Having "J" around on her occasional visits was even worse. I eventually reached the point where I absolutely refused all contact with them, changed my phone number, and avoided them by any means possible...as was the case with all of "J"'s and "A"'s previous boyfriends. I don't find what happened to Aileen Wuornos surprising, in the light of that. Her young life was similarly disastrous. The thing about the movie that is so remarkable was that it somehow managed to make you aware of the essential value of this person whose life had gone hopelessly negative. It made you aware of the utter tragedy of her lost potential as a good and loving human being...a potential that was certainly fully there when she was born. Both "A" and "J" had great potential as human beings. They were smart, capable people, gifted in many ways. But their childhood experiences bent them totally out of shape. I couldn't deal with it. I don't know who could. That's what's so sad about it. May God help them...because I very much doubt that they will find help anywhere else. The same went for Aileen Wuornos. |
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07 Jul 07 - 01:55 AM (#2096170) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: Janie Thanks for starting this thread, Little Hawk. I watched "monster' just a few months ago myself. I was pretty awed by the empathetic and accurate portrayal of a trauma-based Borderline personality. Janie |
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07 Jul 07 - 03:32 AM (#2096206) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: Big Al Whittle "Who can imagine two beautiful actresses wanting to alter themselves and then the submerge into such a character. I didn't watch either one." I agree - leave a few gigs for the ugly old actresses! |
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07 Jul 07 - 08:53 AM (#2096303) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: Micca It is being shown on Film 4 on Sunday evening at 10.35pm here in ther UK and being Film 4 it will be uncut, they have a very high standard of integrety in these matters and treat Adults as Adults unlike the main commercial channels |
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07 Jul 07 - 01:46 PM (#2096435) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: Little Hawk Good for them. |
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07 Jul 07 - 02:20 PM (#2096451) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: robomatic LH: Well, you've convinced me. I was going to skip it although I like the actress. Soon as I'm done with "28 Days Later" I'll see about getting it. |
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07 Jul 07 - 07:21 PM (#2096639) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: TRUBRIT It was a wonderful movie -- terrifying, but a wonderful movie. This kind of stuff is so much scarier than 'blow them away/shoot them up....' movies because this is real -t his could/did happen.............the difference between the people in these films and your kids is YOU -- being able to support your family, step in and help and make sure that no disaster throws them off course --- without that -- what is a person to do? |
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07 Jul 07 - 09:29 PM (#2096699) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: Little Hawk Exactly. Society has no pity on such rootless people and no place for them. This was the most truly frightening and realest movie I've ever seen. |
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08 Jul 07 - 12:07 AM (#2096777) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: TRUBRIT Amen....and that is what keeps me working and working and putting my best foot forward -- because I never want my kids to finish up like this. |
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08 Jul 07 - 01:03 AM (#2096800) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: Little Hawk All power to that. I'm glad you are there for them. |
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08 Jul 07 - 01:14 AM (#2096803) Subject: RE: BS: Monster: Superb movie, but depressing! From: TRUBRIT And you, I am sure, for yours........ |