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10 Jul 07 - 08:46 PM (#2099303) Subject: BS: Relationship problems From: GUEST,patty o'dawes Sorry this isn't going to be a saucy who's been sleeping in who's bed type of thing - Could anyone tell me what relation my uncle is to my children? Is he their second uncle/great uncle or somethin else altogether. He is my uncle by marriage, as in he married my mother's sister. And does the by marriage bit matter? What relation to my 'real' uncles are my children? Thank you to anyone who can unaddle my brian. |
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10 Jul 07 - 08:48 PM (#2099304) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: GUEST,patty o'dawes or even my brain. |
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10 Jul 07 - 08:50 PM (#2099307) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Bill D great uncle, once removed? something like that. |
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10 Jul 07 - 08:53 PM (#2099309) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: GUEST,meself To my understanding, he is your children's "grand-uncle". In our family, we always used "great-uncle" for that relationship, but my mother recently told me that the bona fide term is granduncle, and that that a great-uncle is of the same generation as a great-grandparent. And my mother's always right. |
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10 Jul 07 - 08:56 PM (#2099315) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: GUEST,patty o'dawes Right that makes sense to me as he is of the same generation as their grand parents. Thank you I think I'm unaddling. |
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10 Jul 07 - 09:16 PM (#2099334) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Bee-dubya-ell We'd call him a "great uncle" around here, but we can get away with it because meself's mother doesn't live here. Side topic: How is relationship by marriage affected by divorce? Is your mother's sister's ex-husband still your uncle? |
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10 Jul 07 - 09:22 PM (#2099342) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Stilly River Sage He's a great uncle in my book also. For example, my father's aunt, who is his father's sister, is my great aunt, on the par with the grandparent generation. If she were married, her spouse would be my great uncle. No "removed" in the figuring. That comes in with cousins and such. SRS |
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10 Jul 07 - 09:54 PM (#2099363) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Bill D MY mother's sister's ex-husband was still called "Uncle Doug" by my brother & I as long as he lived...just as ex-presidents are still addressed by their former title. It would have seemed silly to just refer to 'Doug'. |
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10 Jul 07 - 10:01 PM (#2099368) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: GUEST,meself How about "Ex-uncle Doug"? ... No? |
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10 Jul 07 - 10:51 PM (#2099395) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Stilly River Sage I had an Uncle Bob who I always considered my uncle, long after my mother's sister divorced him. It ticked my mother off that I was somehow disloyal to my aunt, but heck, you get to know these people as part of the family when you're a kid and it is just plain silly to somehow act like they weren't someone you loved all your life. It was fine with Bob, and we used to visit when I was in that area. I think it made his second wife a little uncomfortable, but my cousin (his and my aunt's son) and I were just fine with it. SRS |
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10 Jul 07 - 11:22 PM (#2099414) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: katlaughing Maybe this will help, though I don't go by any rigid set of guidelines myself: Uncle and aunt Your parents' brothers and sisters, and their spouses. You don't need any blood connection to be a full-fledged aunt or uncle. Your mother's sister's husband is not your uncle by marriage. He's your uncle, fair and square. Niece and nephew Son and daughter of your siblings and siblings-in-law. As with uncle and aunt, they're not your nieces and nephews by marriage, they're your nieces and nephews, plain and simple, even if they're your spouse's siblings' kids and don't have a single drop of blood in common with you. First cousin, full cousin, cousin-german Children of your parents' brothers and sisters. You and your first cousins share one set of grandparents. Double first cousins If a pair of brothers marries a pair of sisters, their kids are not only first cousins, they're double first cousins: They have both sets of grandparents in common. Second cousins You and the children of your parents' cousins are second cousins and share at least one great-grandparent. Your child and your cousin's child are second cousins. Third cousins You and the children of your parents' second cousins are third cousins and share at least one great-great-grandparent. And so on with the fourth, fifth, and sixth cousins. First cousin once removed A relationship that is removed is one that exists in two different genealogical generations. Generation refers to the order of birth, a genealogical level. Your aunt and your mother may have been born 20 years apart, but they are still of the same generation. Your parent's first cousin is your first cousin once removed. The child of your first cousin is also your first cousin once removed: your grandparent is that child's great-grandparent. You can do the whole "removed" thing for every category of cousins -- second cousin once removed, and so on. But by then you'll probably drive everyone completely crazy. Grandaunt and granduncle We always called grandpa's sister "great-aunt." But the experts say that terminology is incorrect, and the terms at left should be used instead to refer to the siblings of your grandparents. (Which doesn't mean we have any intention of using them.) Great-grandaunts, great-granduncles Your great-grandparents' brothers and sisters. In-laws Family by marriage: Your spouse's parents, spouses of your siblings, and spouses of your spouse's siblings. That is, your brother's wife is an in-law, but none of her siblings are. And your husband's sister's husband is your in-law, but none of his brothers are. And in-laws pretty much stop with your parents-in-law and your siblings-in-law. You are not in-laws with the parents of your sister-in-law's husband. And the two sets of parents of a couple are not in-laws to each other either; they are the competitive parents -- an entirely different category. Affinity relatives Your husband or wife's blood relatives -- the in-laws that are biologically related to your spouse. Birth mother, biological mother, natural mother Terms for the biological mother of a child who has (usually) been adopted by other parents. Adoptive mother Mother of a child who is not biologically her own. Excerpted from FAMILY REUNION Copyright © 1998 by Jennifer Crichton |
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10 Jul 07 - 11:40 PM (#2099423) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Bee-dubya-ell Thanks. I'm fascinated with the ways different families deal with that kind of divorce fallout. Personally, I come from a totally dysfunctional family in which an "ex-uncle" dropped to pariah status after he divorced my aunt. As far as I know, no family members other than his own kids ever spoke to him after the divorce. However, in conversation, my sisters still referred to him as "Uncle Sonny", even though he was persona non grata. |
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11 Jul 07 - 12:29 AM (#2099449) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Janie Thanks Kat. Probably because it is late, I can't figure this one out. The children of my husband's nieces and nephews are what degree of cousin to my son? First cousin once removed? We have more double first cousins in my family tree than you can shake a stick at. Sorta not thread drift (well, really, tremendous thread drift, but that's what happens with insomniacs) When Yer grandma was a Williams before she married a Williams, and they both hail from Johnston Co. Kentucky where there are at least two Williams clans up every holler, family tree research sure does get tenuous! Wish I could sleep. Love, Janie |
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11 Jul 07 - 12:30 AM (#2099450) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Janie BWL, We keep that stuff simple in my family. Once an aunt or uncle or in-law, always an aunt, uncle or in-law (or out-law) Janie |
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11 Jul 07 - 02:33 AM (#2099493) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Ebbie "The children of my husband's nieces and nephews are what degree of cousin to my son? First cousin once removed?" Janie Let's see if I can figure out it out. Your husband's nieces and nephews by usage are also your nieces and nephews. Your son is also your husband's son, by usage. Therefore, by usage, his nieces and nephews and your son are first cousins because they are of the same generation. I don't think 'removed' applies, since there is no blood relation. Anybody? |
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11 Jul 07 - 02:36 AM (#2099495) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Georgiansilver I had two such uncles in my life.....yes I just called them uncle and until you mentioned it I never even gave a though to just how we were related......mmmmmmmmmmm Best wishes, Mike. |
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11 Jul 07 - 04:10 AM (#2099526) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Megan L Heck our family was that small if i wanted aunties and uncles i had to adopt them . The family curse struck again this generation so now i'm on to adopting grand children . Hey its easier than having your own you didnt have the grief of brining up thier parents :) |
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11 Jul 07 - 04:25 AM (#2099539) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: katlaughing But, Ebbie, she was asking about the children of the nieces and nephews. If I read the above info correctly, I think they would be first once removed? |
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11 Jul 07 - 04:53 AM (#2099551) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: SharonA Kat, I think you're right. Your reference says, "The child of your first cousin is your first cousin once removed". So as long as Ebbie's logic is correct (that Janie's son is a cousin of Janie's husband's nieces and nephews), and I think it is, then you're correct. If I'm correct. :^) |
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11 Jul 07 - 05:36 AM (#2099570) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: beardedbruce I am my nephew's childrens gruncle. |
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11 Jul 07 - 06:49 AM (#2099615) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: GUEST,CrazyEddie Surely SOMEONE is going to link to "I'm My Own Grandpaw" |
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11 Jul 07 - 06:55 AM (#2099622) Subject: Lyr Add: I'M MY OWN GRANDPAW (D Latham/M Jaffe) From: beardedbruce Your wish etc... I'm My Own Grandpa - Lonzo & Oscar Composed by Moe Jaffe & Dwight Latham. Recorded by many people, including Guy Lombardo, Phil Harris, Jo Stafford ("I'm My Own Grandmaw"), Homer & Jethro, and Ray Stevens. contributed June 3, 1993 by Paul Maclauchlan from Jon Berger's December 17, 1992 repost of Jeff Osier's transcription (and performance tip) It sounds funny, I know, But it really is so, Oh, I'm my own grandpa. I'm my own grandpa. I'm my own grandpa. It sounds funny, I know, But it really is so, Oh, I'm my own grandpa. Now many, many years ago, when I was twenty-three, I was married to a widow who was pretty as could be. This widow had a grown-up daughter who had hair of red. My father fell in love with her, and soon they, too, were wed. This made my dad my son-in-law and changed my very life, My daughter was my mother, cause she was my father's wife. To complicate the matter, even though it brought me joy, I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy. My little baby then became a brother-in-law to Dad, And so became my uncle, though it made me very sad. For if he was my uncle, then that also made him brother Of the widow's grown-up daughter, who, of course, was my stepmother. *** Note: I find it's generally a good idea to pause at this point to allow the listeners time to process the ramifications of that last stanza! Father's wife then had a son who kept him on the run, And he became my grandchild, for he was my daughter's son. My wife is now my mother's mother, and it makes me blue, Because, although she is my wife, she's my grandmother, too. Now if my wife is my grandmother, then I'm her grandchild, And everytime I think of it, it nearly drives me wild, For now I have become the strangest case you ever saw As husband of my grandmother, I am my own grandpa. |
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11 Jul 07 - 06:56 AM (#2099627) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: beardedbruce opps!- more I'm my own grandpa. I'm my own grandpa. It sounds funny, I know, But it really is so, Oh, I'm my own grandpa. That should be all of it. |
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11 Jul 07 - 10:37 AM (#2099799) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: SharonA My father was the son of a single mother before single motherhood was cool. His grandfather (his mother's father) adopted him to "give him a name". So legally my father would be my grandmother's brother, which would make me my own second cousin. |
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11 Jul 07 - 11:42 AM (#2099856) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Bill D This has to the most complicated explanation of the Theory of Relativity I have ever read. |
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11 Jul 07 - 12:02 PM (#2099874) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Ebbie You're so right- I got too close to the addle. |
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11 Jul 07 - 12:14 PM (#2099887) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Becca72 We never dealt with "removed" cousins around here. they're either first, second, third, etc. We also referred to my mother's first cousins as "uncle" (and their wives as "aunt") but I think that was because of the generation gap, and the fact that my mother was close to her cousins growing up. |
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11 Jul 07 - 12:25 PM (#2099906) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: McGrath of Harlow Great-uncle. What else would the term "great uncle" mean? I take some pride in being a great-uncle, it goes well with the beard. Two great-nieces and a great-nephew. |
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11 Jul 07 - 12:27 PM (#2099909) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: McGrath of Harlow Great Uncle Buklgaria, chief Womble. |
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11 Jul 07 - 12:44 PM (#2099916) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: GUEST,meself 'What else would the term "great uncle" mean?' The uncle of your grandfather - as per my post way, way up there ... |
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11 Jul 07 - 01:01 PM (#2099931) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Stilly River Sage The only bitter divorces I remember in our family (aside from that aunt) was my own parents. My father was much better about it than Mom, who never spoke to him unless she couldn't avoid it, and around whom you didn't discuss him. I think she put entirely too much energy and anger into it, and it had negative consequences for a lot of people around her. With that awful example in mind, I was very careful during my divorce to not have people pick sides or stop talking to the party to whom they weren't related or weren't friends with first. His brother was a little stand-offish at first, but got over it. For years, until the neighbor (Bette) relocated to Arizona, we used to go to her house for Thanksgiving. Her daughter and grand kids were living with her for a number of years after their divorce, but the ex and his parents and sisters, if they were in town came over. As did my friend's ex in-laws. When I divorced I asked if we could join them regularly (I used to cook every other year just to keep in practice) so we could be together without having to be just our small group (it was difficult at first). When it comes times for introductions it gets pretty hilarious, describing the relationships and exes through the room. We did a surprise birthday for my ex this year--60--and Bette flew in and many of her kids and their exes (and one fiance--an ex in training?) were all here. A family who we used to see years ago also made the trip, and they're still married after 20 years. The introductions were convoluted and very funny. "We get along better when we're not married to each other," was the way I summed it up after going through the drill. (The surprise was effective--the kids got him here through a regular routine--our son tagged along for a ride when he picked up our daughter at work and brought her home. He always gets out of his car and walks to the back gate to pet my dogs before he leaves. This time there were 17 people standing in the shade on the patio waiting to greet him. It was priceless!) SRS |
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11 Jul 07 - 01:05 PM (#2099938) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: katlaughing That's really neat, SRS. On the subject of what else could a great-uncle be...well I had some uncles who were great!*bg* My dad's cousin is my Aunt Helen as far as I am concerned. She is one of only two relatives left who are of my parents' generation. |
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11 Jul 07 - 01:10 PM (#2099943) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Mr Red I would bet Great Uncle-in-law if you want pedantry. a Great-uncle is your parent's uncle. Or as Wiki puts it "A Great-uncle is the male sibling of one's grandparent." There is no term "Grand Uncle" which would be more logical. And the adjective for uncle-like behavour is avuncular - and there isn't a similar one for Aunt, but if it is also avuncular I ain't never seen it used so. & FWIW cousins are 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc if they are both the same generationally. And once, twice etc removed if there is a generation imballance. Now does a female Morris side regard themselves as step sisters? |
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11 Jul 07 - 01:39 PM (#2099973) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: McGrath of Harlow Uncles and aunts by marriage are still uncles and aunts, and people don't normally draw a distinction between "uncle by blood" and "uncle by marriage" - so the same goes for great-uncles and great-aunts. The uncle of your grandfather would be a great-great uncle. Or alternatively a first cousin thrice removed. .................................. The female equivalent of "avuncular" is, I understand, "materteral" - but it's not a word that is exactly commonly in use. |
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11 Jul 07 - 02:38 PM (#2100040) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Liz the Squeak Anyone else wishing for single child families? LTS |
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11 Jul 07 - 04:33 PM (#2100171) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: McGrath of Harlow Going a little bit further back, here is "Great Uncle Aardwark" - claimed to be the common ancestor of all us placental mammals (that leaves out kangaroos and platypuses and suchlike). |
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11 Jul 07 - 05:26 PM (#2100228) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: GUEST,meself For example, from the world wide web: Grand / Great Uncles If the brother of your parent is your uncle, what is the brother of your grandmother or grandfather? This relative is called a grand uncle or great uncle. Genealogy purists like the term grand uncle best because it fits well with the nomenclature for your direct ancestors - grand uncle goes with your grandparent. Similarly, your great-grand uncle is the brother of your great-grand parent. Each generation you go back adds another "great" at the beginning of the name of the relation. In contrast, if you go down the family tree instead of up it, you become the uncle, grand uncle, and great-grand uncle and your relative becomes your nephew/niece, grand nephew/niece, and great-grand nephew/niece. (You're welcome). |
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11 Jul 07 - 05:29 PM (#2100234) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Becca72 I have 28 first cousins on my father's side alone, Liz. |
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11 Jul 07 - 06:11 PM (#2100277) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: SharonA Mr. Red sez: "Cousins are 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc if they are both the same generationally. And once, twice etc removed if there is a generation imbalance." Oops, then I made a mistake above. I'm actually my own first cousin once removed. |
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11 Jul 07 - 06:19 PM (#2100287) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Zany Mouse I have so many cousins that I don't even know how many or the names of more than 3. The Coates family breed like rabbits. Rhiannon |
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11 Jul 07 - 07:18 PM (#2100322) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: McGrath of Harlow There are some quite close relationships for which there is no term in English. For example the brother and sister of your brother-in-law or your sister-in-law. |
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11 Jul 07 - 07:30 PM (#2100329) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: Cluin He's their great uncle, pure&simple. Marriage don't enterintoit as far as the "removed" thing. That's a generational displacement deal. |
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11 Jul 07 - 08:05 PM (#2100362) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: GUEST,meself and then from the internet there's: There is also no such thing as a great-uncle or great-aunt - the correct term for that is really grand-uncle (like grand-parent) or grand-aunt. and from a more authoritative-looking site: Although the term Great Uncle/Aunt is commonly used to describe the brother/sister of a grandparent, the above diagram adopts the preferred term Grand Uncle/Aunt as it properly aligns with the term Grandfather/mother at the same generation. Consequently, we have Great Grand Uncle/Aunt at the same generation as Great Grandfather/mother and so on. (You're welcome, again). |
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12 Jul 07 - 11:09 AM (#2100686) Subject: RE: BS: Relationship problems From: GUEST,Grandpa This song explains a lot http://youtube.com/watch?v=5L-tlchqLgU&mode=related&search= |
