|
04 Aug 07 - 03:26 AM (#2118859) Subject: BS: help needed From: stallion Hello guys I need your help, my wife works for The National Trust, England, and is being psychologically bullied at work, I have started a blog but need some more clicks to raise it's profile, any help from the Mudcat community will be greatly appreciated Here |
|
04 Aug 07 - 03:43 AM (#2118864) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: Liz the Squeak There are several threads here that dealt with bullying and it gave the links to more good websites. Do a supersearch for bullying and you might find something useful. In the meantime, get her to document everything. Write down as soon as possible, what was said, who said it, what context it was in, and who else was present. Note down all the times she was made to feel threatened, intimidated, betrayed and victimised. If the tactic of the bully is to get her alone, then she needs to try to arrange it that she's not timetabled with them, or left alone with them. Talk to other members of staff who don't get on with the bully - there's a fair chance they've been bullied too. The bully has a manager and they have a manager too. Get those managers involved, even if it means going to head office. Actually, it's often better to get a third party from a neutral area as they will not be afraid to speak up. Colleagues who are also being harrassed may not be willing to support her, because they feel they may be the bullys' next target. Is there a Union Rep in the office? Get them involved even if she isn't a member - which I strongly recommend she becomes. Watch to see if they pick on a particular type of person - female, blonde, Asian, mouthy, popular, orthodox, fat, male, different sexual preferance, married, parent, poor sickness record, lower grade, poor education, poor language skills - anything can be grist to a bully's mill. Good luck - it's a road stewn with mines but when you get to the other end intact, it's worth it. LTS |
|
04 Aug 07 - 03:54 AM (#2118869) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: katlaughing HERE'S one of those threads Liz mentioned. Be sure to see Helen's posts. Shew went through a lot of workplace bullying. THIS link may have some helpful things. Perhaps if you show these to your wife, she will become convinced that is IS bullying and find a way out of it. Good luck! kat |
|
04 Aug 07 - 04:00 AM (#2118870) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: stallion I think that persuading her she is being bullied is the hardest, she just crumples whenever it is mentioned, it is such a sad sight, she was once a happy bright person and now she is a mental mess, thanks for your support. |
|
04 Aug 07 - 04:04 AM (#2118871) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: Liz the Squeak Have finally managed to get into the blog... sounds like some pretty heavy stuff there. Document everything. Every target set, every goalpost moved, every comment about 'do this or you're fired', every minute spent at the office over her allotted hours - there's a serious breach of Health and Safety right there if she's alone in the building, insurance cover might not extend to unpaid, unapproved overtime - keep a diary of incidents WHERE THE BULLY CANNOT GET AT IT... Don't trust a work locker or locked desk drawer. Try to check the work records for when this bully goes away for a week - was the work completed? Is the office a happier place to be? Does the bully even take a week off? Many bullies feel that the office will fall apart without them, so they take the bare minimum holidays they can get away with, usually less than 3 days at a time. They set impossible tasks so that only 'they' can save the day by "good management" - for which read threats and harrassment. When they see you attaining the target, they will move the goalposts, to imply that you cannot work without their guidance. Good luck. LTS |
|
04 Aug 07 - 04:11 AM (#2118872) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: Liz the Squeak Stallion, if she isn't willing to do it, you start it... when she comes home knackered and wrung out, tells you what happened, YOU keep the diary. Thanks for the link Kat, but there was another, later (2002?) thread about the same subject. I know, because I posted to it, after being bulled in the new job I'd just started in the thread you linked to! I'll have a rootle round and see what I find. LTS |
|
04 Aug 07 - 04:27 AM (#2118875) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: stallion Its worse, the line manager started one of these "no longer capable" things a couple of years ago, Line Manager then took a six month sabbatical and during that six months another line manager covering her office, in boss's absence, killed it because he found that she was indeed working efficiently. When this person returned from the six month break she was surprised to see her still there and started the process all over again! |
|
04 Aug 07 - 04:37 AM (#2118879) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: SharonA Stallion, I think that the first thing you need to do is to STOP BLOGGING about the bullying -- and take your blog off the internet. It's a very common practice now for employers to look for blogs where their employees complain about their jobs (in this case, obliquely through the spouse's account of what the employee is saying). I think that it can only make things worse for your wife if and when National Trust discovers your blog's description of her supervisor as a "vicious cow" against whom "we have enough evidence now to sink her without trace". That could be interpreted as a threat of violence against the supervisor. Certainly they could make accusations of libel and perhaps file charges. Even if they don't do that, they could cite the blog as a reason for firing her. I agree with those who say that you and your wife should document the abuses, talk with the supervisor's higher-ups, complain to the union if there is one, etc. But "raising the profile" of your blog is the worst thing you can do, given its content. Get rid of the blog right away and hope that the permanent footprint it will have left on the internet will never be discovered by National Trust. Then talk to a good attorney about your wife's legal options against this company. |
|
04 Aug 07 - 05:05 AM (#2118887) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: stallion That is probably sound advice but I think that whole thing has gone too far and I feel incredibly vindictive, the idea is make people think twice about working for the organisation. How else do you cope with someone who lies awake at night listening to the radio so her head doesn't fill with work related stuff, pukes every morning before setting off for works, bursts into to tears the moment the door shuts out the outside world after finishing work and all the subsequent exhaustion. On the building sites a person of that supervisors ilk would have been pinned to a wall and "pasted", so often that they would desist. It is a gut reaction and I don't think she will ever work for the organisation again, she wants to get out. I am angry, very angry probably only a notch away from stupid angry, no, maybe I am already stupid angry and only a notch away from dangerous angry. |
|
04 Aug 07 - 05:07 AM (#2118888) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: George Papavgeris Peter, so sorry to hear about all this. Luiz is spot on - document everything. SharonA gives some good advice too, though I would say keep the blog going, but cleanse it of all non-relevant items, implied or overt threats and keep descriptions factual. Perhaps I can be of a little help on the sidelines. Is your spouse working in IT? At least that is what I deduced from the blog. If so, that gives me a triple interest: First as your friend; second as a member of the National Trust, one of their customers; and third because I am an IT Director of a company myself and have been in IT since 1979 and in IT Management since 1990; and the specific area where I made my name and career in it has been people management. So I can offer a second opinion on specific tasks, whether the deadlines and targets set could be remotely acceptable etc and perhaps even ways round some of the problems. Email me or phone me and I'll be only too pleased to try to help - we live too far part for a casual visit, but a late night phone conversation is eminently doable. I feel very angry. Nobody deserves to be made to feel like this at work. |
|
04 Aug 07 - 05:11 AM (#2118890) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: Liz the Squeak I agree about the blog... although it's a good way to vent and get support and sympathy, it's not going to do any favours if the manager finds it - as Sharon says, it could result in disciplinary procedures against Mrs Stallion. I can't find the links to the other bullying threads - it was some time in 2002, probably after September, definately after March 2002... maybe even 2003. LTS |
|
04 Aug 07 - 05:12 AM (#2118891) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: stallion Thanks George, as ever, an assuring, calming voice of reason. I will try to curb my anger and channel my energy into something more productive. |
|
04 Aug 07 - 05:19 AM (#2118893) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: SharonA "How else do you cope...?" Sounds like she is not coping well at all. In addition to the above advice, I suggest that she consult a therapist to learn some coping skills and stress-reduction techniques. She's directing all her stress inward and it's obviously self-destructive. She might take up yoga or tai chi or some such, too. What is preventing her from resigning if she wants to? It might cause some economic hardship for a time, but it would be healthier for both of you stress-wise, which in the long run would mean lower health-care costs. If she's holding out so she can sue for wrongful termination, then document, document, document. |
|
04 Aug 07 - 05:26 AM (#2118895) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: stallion ist Sharon A, as advised I have taken out inflammatory remarks, please check and let me know if it is enough. 2nd She used to do YOGA but now doesn't have the time and energy 3rd. Yes the economic hardship would be huge at first but I could find ways around that, I am trying to build up yet another business which has proved quite difficult given poor health and broken wrist etc. but it will come good but it may take another six months to turn it into a decent job. |
|
04 Aug 07 - 05:31 AM (#2118898) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: stallion Oh by the way, I am an electrician |
|
04 Aug 07 - 05:56 AM (#2118907) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: SharonA 1. Stallion, I'm not in a position to know what constitutes "enough"; I'm not in the legal profession and, even if I were, I'm not in England so I wouldn't know British law. My gut feeling is that the very fact that the blog says that National Trust is bullying your wife is saying too much! In other words, I think you need to delete remarks that can be interpreted as defamatory, as well as those that are inflammatory. This thread only compounds the problem! To be on the safe side, I'd say the name National Trust should be deleted from both (though to be on the very safest side, the blog and the thread should go!) Again, talk to a good attorney about it right away. You need advice from someone who knows the laws in your country. 2. Hmm, that is a Catch-22, isn't it? No energy to do a thing that could give her energy... too stressed to do a thing that could calm her... 3. Good luck building up the new business! |
|
04 Aug 07 - 06:25 AM (#2118913) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: jacqui.c Hi Stallion I went through something similar with a bullying boss a few years back. As Liz says, document everything, all the tasks that your wife is being asked to do and how long it took another person to do them previously, all the hours she has to work, how the working conditions changed during this woman's sabbatical, the name of the line manager who took over during the sabbatical. Get your wife to her GP to show the deleterious effect that the situation is having on her and to get it all documented. Then go see a solicitor! The problem with this kind of abuse is that the perpetrator gets their victim to a state where they do believe that there is something lacking in them. The victim needs to learn that it is not their fault and that the abuser is the one to blame. Is it just your wife who is being picked on or are there others in the same situation? If so, just one legal action started could open the floodgates of complaints against this woman. I was lucky - there was a good procedure in place for complaints and I had a good union rep who backed me all the way. |
|
04 Aug 07 - 12:44 PM (#2119049) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: Liz the Squeak Other question/suggestions for Mrs Stallion... Does the manager ever call you into one to one meetings to discuss her shortcomings? If so, you should be able to request a third, unbiased person present - a colleague, Union Rep or a manager from another department. Are these meetings called at short - sometimes minutes notice? Disciplinary meetings should always have a reasonable amount of notice and a third person present (my manager called me to one at 11.59am, knowing full well that my set lunch time was midday. It's a flustering technique that often works because it catches you offguard). Are your shortcomings discussed with other members of staff to your detriment? This is divide and conquer. If the manager can get colleagues to think twice about supporting you, then the manager has already won the battle. There is always the option to quit, but if you're going to do that, make sure you have another job to go to that is a confirmed and solid offer before making a public stink about bullying in the NT, and a reasoned argument for leaving them. There is also the option of being signed off sick long term. This helps enormously in any grievance, if you have a sympathetic doctor. It may not feel the right thing to do, but if the mere act of pulling up outside the door makes you vomit, you are sick and need to take a break. If you can prove it is affecting your health (and it sounds pretty convincing to me), you have a stronger argument. Even better if no-one does your work whilst you are away. Get counselling, get medical help and get your self back. LTS |
|
04 Aug 07 - 12:53 PM (#2119056) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: SINSULL For your wife's sanity and health give her permission to quit. Vomiting on the way to work? That is insanity. Get a lawyer to review the situation but don't wait for her to be hospitalized to get her out of the situation. |
|
04 Aug 07 - 12:58 PM (#2119059) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: Liz the Squeak Sorry that was meant to be YOUR shortcomings in the second sentence... the manager of course, will have no shortcomings! LTS |
|
04 Aug 07 - 01:53 PM (#2119084) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: stallion We have just returned from a long walk, a pint of copper dragon and a long chat, shortly she will sit down and write a resignation letter, we shall then get another dog and we shall put our energies into building a business together. thanks all Peter |
|
04 Aug 07 - 02:59 PM (#2119106) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: GUEST,mg I was going to say if it is a female bully, good luck. Men (some)will be afraid to go after her, will pretend they don't see anything, and know that anything they say will be used against them. Women (some) have a stupid sense of sisterhood that keeps them from calling out these demons. Sue anyway. mg |
|
04 Aug 07 - 03:20 PM (#2119110) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: stallion Oh yes, sort of woman, not one that would be interested in me. |
|
04 Aug 07 - 03:44 PM (#2119123) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: jacqui.c A letter of resignation is probably the best thing in the circumstances but I would still say make a visit to your GP to document her condition and the reason for it. I know, from personal experience, that this type of bully doesn't stop. She will just find the next victim and the one after that..... If your wife can cope with doing it she would be doing everyone a service by taking legal action against the NT and this woman. Basically, resigning because of the way she has been treated can, I believe, be construed as constructive dismissal - I'm sure if I've got that wrong one of our legal eagles will put me right. Whatever the term, your wife has been forced to resign because the work situation has affected her health to a major degree. Once she's out of the firing line it may not be so difficult to take action against her employers and it could a) give a lot of satisfaction to both of you, and b) may galvanise the NT to do something about this woman. Hitting them in the pocket is one way of getting their attention! |
|
04 Aug 07 - 05:42 PM (#2119238) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: katlaughing Good for you both, Stallion. Good for you for supporting her and to her for accepting your counsel and being courageous enough to get out of there. I, too, urge you to get her health documented and to discuss things with a lawyer. Of course, before she turns in the letter, she should be sure to collect all the available "evidence" she can to back up her case. Good luck to you both, kat |
|
04 Aug 07 - 05:43 PM (#2119239) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: Liz the Squeak If you want to try for constructive dismissal, get a report from your GP first, before you write the letter of resignation. Make sure your colleagues know why you are resigning, and that copies of any resignation letters go to the bully's manager as well, so that they know exactly why you've been forced into this action. That way, the bully can't spread any 'bad vibes' about you and it may encourage other victims to speak up. Good luck LTS |
|
04 Aug 07 - 06:02 PM (#2119267) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: GUEST,mg If your wife could do this without injuring her health further, and if she was able to hold out a bit, since she is resigning anyway, see the doctor, document everything thoroughly, see the lawyer, and he/she will probably recommend you put something in writing to see what response will be. As in I have been abused in the following way in the following times...and here is what I want to see happen. You are in such a happy spot knowing you can leave the situation..many people can not...if they retaliate (here's almost hoping they do)go after the bully's manager and only incidently the bully. He or she is the either stupid or responsible one here, unless bully is so clever (and many are) as to totally hide her tracks. The people who allow bullying (and don't get me started on the idiots I have seen in schools who tolerated it) are worse than the bullies. mg |
|
04 Aug 07 - 06:56 PM (#2119304) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: stallion Well, for the record, this person is almost a perfect bully, I say almost because if she wasn't so eager and confident she wouldn't have made so many mistakes. One might ask why? Well Jo ( my sweetheart, lover and best friend for the last 35 years) Is such a forgiving person, she only sees the good in people, I, on the other hand, had several years of being a union rep., going on demos, getting locked up for political "crimes", I was born to protest and smell injustice under ten feet of bullshit so, when presented with the facts, they didn't add up to a coherent argument but the stench of bullying was everywhere. Basically I firmly believe she has promised Jo's job to someone else and is moving hell and high water to shift her to allow it, so certain am of this that I am considering lodging a note with a commissioner for oaths, naming the person, to use as evidence in any future court case. However, and it is a big however, Jo wants to walk away from this and forget it all and I must respect this, my only concern is that we may not achieve closure and it will haunt her for the rest of her life, and , subsequently me. I am a born fighter and I have difficulty walking away from this. Peter |
|
04 Aug 07 - 08:16 PM (#2119344) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: GUEST,mg I say hire the lawyer and let the lawyer doing the fighting and keep your hands clean so to speak. mg |
|
04 Aug 07 - 08:32 PM (#2119354) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: SINSULL A tough decision, Stallion. I admire your strength in doing it. Been there; done that. Just taking control of the situation is such a positive step for your wife. M |
|
05 Aug 07 - 05:19 AM (#2119538) Subject: RE: BS: help needed From: stallion We are fortunate in that one our Nephew Rupert Nevin is one of the country's leading employment lawyers, but, as he says, he usually defends companies in what is damage limitation. I am sure he would help if he had time. |