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04 Aug 07 - 04:42 PM (#2119169) Subject: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk Why do I see so many people using the word "conflate" lately? It's not a real word. Judging by the context people are using it in, they intend to use a word that means "confuse". If so, they should say "confuse" because confuse is a real word, but conflate isn't. I looked in the dictionary. "Conflate" isn't in there. What is in the dictionary is this word: conflation - n. a combining or fusing together, esp. of two variant readings of a text Keep this in mind. You can have a conflation, but you cannot "conflate", and even if you could conflate, it would not mean "confuse". |
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04 Aug 07 - 04:57 PM (#2119183) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Cluin Wasn't this covered before? |
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04 Aug 07 - 04:59 PM (#2119186) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk Was it? Peace says that "conflate" is in his dictionary, although it's not in mine. It means to fuse or combine. Okay, so maybe it IS a real word, and I was wrong about that, but it does not mean to confuse, and that's how I see people using it. |
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04 Aug 07 - 05:02 PM (#2119187) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Cluin So how do the different prefixes alter the meaning of the root "flate"? Or is it all "flatus"? |
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04 Aug 07 - 05:11 PM (#2119194) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk Could be... ;-) |
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04 Aug 07 - 05:26 PM (#2119213) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: gnu I am both confused and conflated. |
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04 Aug 07 - 05:27 PM (#2119215) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk But not deflated. |
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04 Aug 07 - 05:27 PM (#2119216) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: John Hardly It's okay because it is word-like. Like the new word "nutraceutical". Because we are collectively a stupid, conflated mass, paramedical industry knows they can fool us by making up medical sounding words to make the newest placebo sound more appealing. Otherwise we may not spend our last red cent on the newest nutraceutical. But if an actor, playing a doctor on TV tells us that this nutraceutical will heal us, we will buy it. We're conflated. |
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04 Aug 07 - 05:29 PM (#2119219) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk We're trapped in a conflationary spiral. |
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04 Aug 07 - 05:30 PM (#2119221) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Peace "We're conflated." We're fucked up! |
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04 Aug 07 - 05:36 PM (#2119230) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: gnu Well, it IS Saturday night, and some of us still have a death wish, so, LET'S GET CONFLATED! |
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04 Aug 07 - 05:39 PM (#2119233) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Megan L Peace if i hiv tae send Granny ower there tae skelp you your in trouble mind yer tongue wummin present |
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04 Aug 07 - 05:40 PM (#2119234) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Cluin She packed my bags last night, preflate... |
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04 Aug 07 - 05:44 PM (#2119243) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Peace Yes, ma'am. Sorry. "We're messed up." |
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04 Aug 07 - 05:47 PM (#2119248) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Cluin Ha ha, Peace. You fucked up. |
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04 Aug 07 - 05:49 PM (#2119250) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Megan L As fur you Cluin I dae postal skelps as weel :) |
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04 Aug 07 - 05:49 PM (#2119251) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Peace Meg, look what Cluin said. Sorry buddy, but you know how it is . . . . |
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04 Aug 07 - 05:52 PM (#2119256) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Cluin I'll watch the mail, Meg. Have nae had a good skelping in years. |
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04 Aug 07 - 06:01 PM (#2119266) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Peace I don't think getting skelpt is an enjoyable experience. |
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04 Aug 07 - 06:04 PM (#2119268) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Peace She was a mere 5 years older than me. Look at the pic. WHEW! |
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04 Aug 07 - 06:04 PM (#2119269) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Emma B I believe some people pay good money....... |
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04 Aug 07 - 06:08 PM (#2119273) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: John Hardly I was just crazy about her little sister, Annette Funiviolin. |
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04 Aug 07 - 06:24 PM (#2119280) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Cluin I think you got that link in the wrong thread, Peace. |
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04 Aug 07 - 06:29 PM (#2119283) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Bev and Jerry We Googled "conflate" and there are numerous dictionary definitions for it. One of them is, "1.a : to bring together : FUSE b : CONFUSE 2 : to combine (as two readings of a text) into a composite whole" And, it's an old word dating back to around 1600. Bev and Jerry |
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04 Aug 07 - 06:31 PM (#2119287) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Peace You're right, Cluin. |
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04 Aug 07 - 06:58 PM (#2119305) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk Yes, Bev and Jerry, I am now prepared to admit that conflate is a real word, even though my huge and impressive edition of... (drum roll.....) *** Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary of the English Language - Canadian Edition 1988 *** ...does not deign to give it such status. However, conflate does not mean to confuse. It means to fuse or combine. I object to the ostentatious and pretentious overuse of "conflate" by certain members of this forum, and I think they are misusing the word. They are thereby contributing to a conflationary spiral. |
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04 Aug 07 - 07:01 PM (#2119310) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Peace "Order in the court!" Uh, may I have a medium all dressed, hold the anchovies . . . . |
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04 Aug 07 - 07:05 PM (#2119313) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Cluin Not culpably, I trust. However, there may be a lilliputionally palpable thrust to subconflate on a micro-macro level. |
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04 Aug 07 - 07:32 PM (#2119327) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: GUEST Shorter Oxford English Dictionary dates the first recorded use to 1610, meaning "to blow or fuse together, to bring together; to compose; produce, bring about. Now rare." With a more modern meaning "to combine two readings into a composite reading" dated to 1885. Maybe some people onthe Cat do misuse the word. However it's very easy to make up a sentence using "conflate" where confuse could be substituted and it would still make sense. Just not quite the same sense. I rather suspect that some of the posts Little Hawk is complaining about are examples of that. |
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04 Aug 07 - 08:35 PM (#2119356) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: JohnInKansas The word is in my Random House Unabridged Dictionary (CD edition), but it's a "Word Perfect" spinoff so it's probably wrong. I think the misuse of "conflate" to mean "confuse" might come from a book some one wrote that described people who "conflate metaphors" - i.e. mix a pair of perfectly good bits of tripe into a single peace of meaningless tripe. At least that's one of the first places I encountered the word. But I was only about nine years old and haven't the slightest memory of a title or author. It might also have been that the author was simply confused, as many people have been since, and just wanted a big word to impress nine-year old kids; but I doubt that kids my age were really expected to read that kind of stuff, even back then. John |
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04 Aug 07 - 09:57 PM (#2119377) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk Yeah, I think it's probably one of those words that people use to impress other people with how intellectual they are, and in the process they misuse it...ironically. ;-) I mean, hey, "conflate" sounds really important when you use it in a sentence where "confuse" belongs. I think that's why people use it, rather than using a more common word. Or am I confused? Anyway, I'm not conflated! |
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05 Aug 07 - 01:08 AM (#2119459) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Amos Running two ideas together inappropriately is a common failing. And it produces confusion, since the data doesn't work well when it is wrongly conflated. For example, Bush's effort to conflate 9-11 with Saddam Hussein was very irritating because it did not compute. Many folks being unable to tolerate the pain of the resultant confusion stemming from this self-serving conflation, simply lapsed into sullen acceptance or even bought the whole nine yards, conflation and all. Sic semper tyrranis. A |
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05 Aug 07 - 01:56 AM (#2119474) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk Uh-huh. I see. |
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05 Aug 07 - 09:26 AM (#2119624) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: McGrath of Harlow I think Amos puts his finger on the confusion about conflation. "Running two ideas together inappropriately" is an extension of earlier meanings of conflation, which are more about runnings ideas together appropriately, but it seems a justifiable enough extension - and it marks out a specific source of confusion, which can be a useful enough distinction to make. Using less ordinary words as a way of showing off is generally better avoided - but I don't think we should fall into the opposite trap of limiting our vocabulary in ways that get in the way of precision. |
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05 Aug 07 - 11:42 AM (#2119685) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: John Hardly For breakfast this morning I had a nice big bowl of Kellogg's Cornflates. Now I feel all "bloaty". |
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05 Aug 07 - 01:48 PM (#2119769) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk Well put, McGrath. |
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06 Aug 07 - 08:59 AM (#2120241) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Wolfhound person Are we not all conflations.....as in the fusing or combining of our parents genetic material.....? 'Scuse me, the dog needs a long walk, right now. I won't be back for a while. Paws |
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06 Aug 07 - 09:27 AM (#2120258) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk This whole society is one giant conflation. |
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06 Aug 07 - 09:35 AM (#2120261) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: George Papavgeris *!* whoops sorry it's just conflation bicarb anyone? |
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06 Aug 07 - 09:54 AM (#2120273) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Donuel This is just another example that the word LIE is never to be used in Washington DC. It is called the L word and is never allowed to be used in Congress while the F word is excused when Cheney says it. Words that imply LIE are: dissemble disingenuous mispoke misinterpreted conflate spin misused misinformed credibility gap etc.......... |
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06 Aug 07 - 04:16 PM (#2120388) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: McGrath of Harlow I'm sure there's a "Conflato" spell somewhere in Harry Potter world. It'd make things stick tigether. Could be unpleasant. |
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06 Aug 07 - 04:25 PM (#2120398) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk I believe you have hit on the real source of the recent widespread overusage of "conflate", Donuel. It's those damned politicians that have popularized the word and spread it far and wide. |
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07 Aug 07 - 03:29 AM (#2120653) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Gurney Little Hawk, Mr. Webster was reputed to be an anglophobe, so maybe he left some words out out of malice, and/or to drive a wedge between Canada and England. Heh heh. I keep advocating this, but it seems that few listen. Download the free Wordweb dictionary! It sits on the toolbar, and is pretty comprehensive. Highlight word and click Wordweb. Easy. It says; Conflate: to mix together elements. It doesn't have my test word, though. Oxter. |
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07 Aug 07 - 07:33 AM (#2120753) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Ella who is Sooze perhaps the next step will be to have a conflaterization or we conflaterized It drives me BONKERS I tell you, BONKERS, when people add erizated or erization or erizationalised on to the end of perfectly decent English words which already have proper plurals, suffixes and so on. Rant over, Carry on. I'm off now to discombobulaterize my dinner and to burglerizate the refrigerator and cookeratorize my kippers. arggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh |
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07 Aug 07 - 07:37 AM (#2120758) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: GUEST,PMB It's called pleonasmization. |
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07 Aug 07 - 08:30 AM (#2120794) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Donuel Here is a guy that decided to speak his conscience and NOT conflate. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWksEJQEYVU As long as he repeats the party line next week he will probably keep his job. btw Berneke will not drop the rate. |
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07 Aug 07 - 10:45 AM (#2120811) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Amos AN awesome deomonstration. She couldn't get a rope on that cayuse to save her life. A |
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07 Aug 07 - 11:00 AM (#2120824) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: dick greenhaus Y'know, CONFLATE and CONFLATION are perfectly good and useful terms, when used properly. How wlse would you describe a version of a ballad created by piecing together several other, less complete versions? As far as misuse, all I can say is that, as misused words, they're in good company. |
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07 Aug 07 - 04:05 PM (#2121057) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Cluin "How else would you describe a version of a ballad created by piecing together several other, less complete versions?" The folk process. |
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08 Aug 07 - 01:20 PM (#2121799) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Uncle_DaveO It's easy to lose sight of the fact--and it is a fact--that, at least in English, words morph from one part of speech to another easily. There's a grand history in English of this sort of change, which is called "back formation", if I've got the concept right. Conflation is a noun form, and it's common enough to found a verb on it. The fact that a word "isn't in the dictionary" doesn't mean it isn't a word. You said, yourself, that you run into it often. Therefore it is a word. Whether you like it or not doesn't mean it isn't a word. Whether a dictionary author decides to list it doesn't mean it isn't a word. I'll bet your dictionary that omits "conflate" is a desk dictionary, an abridged edition, a "college edition", or some such description. That means that, in order to make a volume which is useful for most purposes and of a size (and price) that can be handled, the editors have chosen to cut way back on the word list they choose to cover. And even the big unabridged dictionaries, contrary to popular belief, don't have all the words that are and/or have been current in the English language. It's just not possible. Dave Oesterreich |
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08 Aug 07 - 03:12 PM (#2121909) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Amos "We found 18 dictionaries with English definitions that include the word conflate: Tip: Click on the first link on a line below to go directly to a page where "conflate" is defined. General (17 matching dictionaries) conflate : Encarta® World English Dictionary, North American Edition [home, info] conflate : Compact Oxford English Dictionary [home, info] conflate : Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary, 10th Edition [home, info] conflate : Cambridge International Dictionary of English [home, info] conflate : Wiktionary [home, info] conflate : The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language [home, info] conflate : Infoplease Dictionary [home, info] conflate : Dictionary.com [home, info] conflate : Online Etymology Dictionary [home, info] Conflate : Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia [home, info] Conflate : Online Plain Text English Dictionary [home, info] conflate : Rhymezone [home, info] Conflate : AllWords.com Multi-Lingual Dictionary [home, info] conflate : The Phrontistery - A Dictionary of Obscure Words [home, info] conflate : WordNet 1.7 Vocabulary Helper [home, info] conflate : LookWAYup Translating Dictionary/Thesaurus [home, info] conflate : Worthless Word For The Day [home, info"] From this on-line wordfiner. Perhaps Little Hawk is just bloviating out of laziness? A |
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08 Aug 07 - 04:32 PM (#2121980) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk No, Dave, it is not an abridged dictionary, it's a huge, encyclopedic dictionary. It does contain "conflation", but not "conflate". Nonetheless, your point is a valid one. Any word that is in use clearly is a word...even if it's not in some dictionary. I dislike conflate simply because I think people have been misusing it on Mudcat and doing that way too often...but that's just my own particular opinion. Now, here's a word that is not in the dictionary, but it's a real world, because I am about to use it. Diddlyboob. Amos, you are a diddlyboob! ;-) An erudite diddlyboob, to be sure....a diddlyboob who speaks and writes brilliantly, but a diddlyboob nonetheless. I regret to say that I still don't know what "bloviate" means, so I shall have to look it up. But you accused me of being lazy!!!! Well.....yeah.... I am proud of my laziness, sir. The only being around here that is demonstrably lazier than me is my dog, and he has attained absolute mastery of the art, due to the fact that he doesn't need to earn a living. I hope to one day be in such an exalted position myself, at which point I shall achieve a degree of laziness which at present is still beyond reach for me. ;-) |
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08 Aug 07 - 05:19 PM (#2122019) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Gurney LH, 'Orate verbosely and windily' says Wordweb. I made a bumpersticker for my van. 'Eschew Obfuscation'. No-one ever asked. |
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08 Aug 07 - 05:34 PM (#2122031) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Amos And to thee, oh, Hawk, I say "eschew bloviation". Here's a friendly thought from a man we all should learn from: BLAME What if I should discover that.... I stand in need of the alms of my own kindness, that I myself am the enemy who must be loved -- what then? Carl Jung |
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08 Aug 07 - 05:57 PM (#2122047) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk Yes, well, I must find out what "bloviation" means, mustn't I? I'll go and do that, okay? |
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08 Aug 07 - 06:01 PM (#2122049) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk Well, I'll be darned. "Bloviation" is not in my dictionary either. I'll guess I'll have to search online. It surprises me that you people keep fining words which are NOT to be found in an 1147-page encyclopedic Webster's dictionary! |
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08 Aug 07 - 06:14 PM (#2122056) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk Aha! The mystery is solved. It is an Americanism, and that is why it is not in my Canadian dictionary. Canadian dictionaries, quite properly, scorn the more obscure Americanisms. ;-) The term "bloviate" first appeared around 1850-55, and was a concocted psuedo-Latin term, meaning: "to speak pompously" "to orate verbosely and windily" It was popularized into general usage by Warren G. Harding in the 1920s. And that is why it is not in a Canadian encyclopedic dictionary. So, Amos, you accuse me of speaking pompously? Of orating verbosely and windily? Ha! I freely admit to doing so. I take delight in doing so. I do it deliberately and frequently. Why? I am attempting, in my own small way, to match the sublime heights of bloviation achieved by the master of it on Mudcat...that master being yourself. I regret to say that I am still falling a wee bit short of your own godlike capabilities in that regard, but I am sincerly trying. Give me time. Now that I have learned the Americanism "to bloviate", I have one more round of ammunition in my arsenal, as it were... Expect some inspired bloviation when I have had time to replenish my energies fullsomely, for then I shall advance again to the field of honour, thesaurus in hand. |
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08 Aug 07 - 06:23 PM (#2122067) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Amos Th'art free with compliments and praises, and such, Render the open eye distrustful at the touch, Such deluge of fine phrase, without inflection Of doubt or irony, requires reflection. And to this strange conclusion come we all: It is untrue -- the foolish shepherd's call Of wolf, alone against the village night, Offered as some excuse to join the light. This flavor causes one to flinch from touch By one who praising, praises over-much. Thus is the sad conclusion of reflection -- Your iron, though soft, is just projection. Winifred Bigelow Ames Songs in the Distant Bushes Naughty Editions, inc., Saville, 1908 |
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08 Aug 07 - 09:20 PM (#2122162) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Don Firth Eschew! Eschew! Gesundheit!! Don Firth |
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09 Aug 07 - 12:27 AM (#2122233) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Little Hawk "Where did you say you're from?" "I said, I'm from SCHENECTADY!!!" "Bless you!" |
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09 Aug 07 - 12:36 AM (#2122242) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Amos 'Bout time that Little Hawk owned up -- all this time pretending to be Canadian -- explains a lot, I tell ya. A |
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09 Aug 07 - 09:37 PM (#2122869) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Gurney LH, that's an Aussie joke! "Where are you jokers from?" "Schentady and Kootenay" "Oh." "Where did they say they come from, Blue?" "Dunno, they don't speak English, Sport." |
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10 Aug 07 - 10:21 AM (#2123057) Subject: RE: BS: Conflate THIS!!! From: Donuel Conflatio - lieing through one's teeth. |
