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03 Sep 07 - 11:49 AM (#2139701) Subject: Grey Owl From: john f weldon An artist, Dwayne Jensen, recently asked me if I new of any songs about the legendary fake Indian known as Grey Owl. He's hoping to use it as the basis of a short film. I couldn't think of anything, but maybe some other Mudcatter has some ideas. (Or wants to write the song?) |
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03 Sep 07 - 12:13 PM (#2139719) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Found this: 3. Grey Owl words and music by Peter Titchener Pete was inspired to write this song after reading a book written by Geoff Hutchinson Canadian Indian 'Grey Owl'. The story tells how Grey Owl went from being a hunter to a well-respected conservationist. Shortly after his death it was revealed that he wasn't a real Indian at all, in fact his name was Archibald Stamfield Belaney and was born in Hastings in the UK, which is where Pete was born. (The similarity ends there.) |
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03 Sep 07 - 12:27 PM (#2139729) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: GUEST,Dwayne jensen thanks to John and George Seto I'll check that out. Dwayne |
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03 Sep 07 - 12:43 PM (#2139741) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: GUEST,Grey Owl's friend "..the fake Indian" Grey Owl may not have been raised a Native American, but he adopted the lifestyle, beliefs and outlooks of those people. He turned his life around, made peace with nature and himself. I should imagine the Native American People would have been proud to have him as one of their own....and indeed if you look in this clip you'll see that they took him in as exactly that. The Story of Grey Owl You can choose to see him as a drunk, a bigamist and a liar. OR...you can see him as a very human man, with many faults, who faced his demons and conquered them. And then became a man who went on to do as much as he could for the planet, whilst also trying to make amends for his former life. I see him as the latter. |
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03 Sep 07 - 02:22 PM (#2139835) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: john f weldon Don't blame Dwayne for MY choice of words. I believe he plans to make a very positive film. Luckily for Archibald, I'm not the one making this film. |
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03 Sep 07 - 03:06 PM (#2139872) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: GUEST,Dwayne Yes I do know about the bad side of him. The film they made afew years ago, I think dealt more on the famous side of him. I am interested in more the day to day stuff. How trappers in general had to kill everything in site to make money and survive, and really people in England and Europe supported this life style. I relate to him in some things, I always wanted to be an indian and live free like he did. But without the trapping but maybe just a little hunting. But I was not strong enough or strong willed to accually do it. But I'm in need of a sound track for this. I was hoping someone would have done it, in a folk style maybe. Anyway I did the lylrics from the Australian band, but no sound. I will try to get in touch and see what they say. Thanks everyone you were a big help. I have 2 styles ready to work from, I would be interested in which one you like the best. Or if you don't like either! http://www.dwaynejensen.com/Blog/Untitled-1.jpg http://www.dwaynejensen.com/Blog/Untitled-2.jpg http://www.dwaynejensen.com/ Thanks Dwayne |
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03 Sep 07 - 03:52 PM (#2139916) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: GUEST,Dwayne Grey Owls friend. I was wondering when you say Grey Owl's friend, do you mean you acually knew him, to talk to etc.?? Dwayne |
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03 Sep 07 - 04:12 PM (#2139941) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: Q (Frank Staplin) Some books about or by Grey Owl. An interesting character, looked on fondly by most Canadians. Lovat Dickson, "The Strange Story of Grey Owl." MacMillan Canada. E. E. Reynolds, "A Book of Grey Owl. Pages from the writungs of Wa-Sha-Quon-Asin." MacMillan Canada. Grey Owl, "Tales of an Empty Cabin. MacMillan Canada. Irene Ternier Gordon, "Grey Owl: The Curious Life of Archie Belaney." Altitude Pub., Canada. Grey Owl, "Sajo and the Beaver People." Translated into German and other languages. Stoddart and other publishers. These books are listed at a dollar or two at Abebooks. |
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03 Sep 07 - 06:23 PM (#2140044) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: Stilly River Sage I relate to him in some things, I always wanted to be an indian and live free like he did. You delude yourself if you think Indians "live free." You don't need to be an Indian to live such a lifestyle, and in this day and age, being a wannabe doesn't win friends and admiration. Perhaps Jeremiah Johnson would be a better role model for you. . . SRS |
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03 Sep 07 - 06:56 PM (#2140076) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: gnu He was a man. He had faults as we all do. But, he brought a bit of the native life to those who knew not. That may or may not be a good thing. Up to you. I look on it as a good thing. My native brothers know much and so do many of us whites. Hopefully, together we can be friends and treat our Mother Earth as it should be treated. Hopefully, sooner than later. |
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03 Sep 07 - 07:13 PM (#2140093) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: GUEST,ddj47 You don't need to be an Indian to live such a lifestyle, and in this day and age, being a wannabe doesn't win friends and admiration. Perhaps Jeremiah Johnson would be a better role model for you. . . Yea that's true. But if it was anything like the movie Jeremiah Johnson , I don't think I would lasted too long!! :) ddj47 |
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03 Sep 07 - 08:09 PM (#2140120) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: john f weldon Remember, Dwayne is an animator, like myself. We live in the world of the imagination, and being a wannabe part of the job. If it results in a film, it will win friends and admiration aplenty. |
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03 Sep 07 - 08:49 PM (#2140137) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: Stilly River Sage Well then why stop with Grey Owl? Go all out and go for the biggie of the disdained wannabe texts--The Education of Little Tree. A lot of folks who don't know any better might like the story, despite the fact that "Forrest Carter" who wrote it was also Asa Carter. From Salon.com:
But "Forrest Carter's" most memorable creation was himself. "Forrest Carter," revered author of the beloved "Little Tree," was actually Asa Carter -- virulent segregationist, former Klansman, speechwriter for George Wallace and professional racist. http://archive.salon.com/books/feature/2001/12/20/carter/. Just because you can do a thing, and just because some people who don't know better will applaud, doesn't mean that it is worth the effort. SRS |
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03 Sep 07 - 11:43 PM (#2140212) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: Q (Frank Staplin) Caravaggio, the most important of the Baroque era painters, was a killer and a thug; that does not invalidate study and appreciation of his art. Benvenuto Cellini, the 16th c. silver- and goldsmith was a liar, womanizer and a bully, but his work was great art. George Washington hated the Indians and wanted them removed from 'civilized' areas. Jumping forward, Leni Riefenstahl was a great photographer whose work is still studied by aspiring photographers, but she is tainted with the Hitler era. Asa Earl Carter, author of "Gone to Texas" and "The Education of Little Tree," was a 'masterful storyteller' (Lawrence Clayton, in "Handbook of Texas") whose literary work, though small in volume, is appreciated. He is typical of the white people of his time and place; the South was not yet ready for racial equality and it had to be forced on them. As Clayton said, the influence of the Civil War and his Cherokee heritage are strong components of his assumed identity of Cherokee storyteller. All of that has little bearing on the life of Grey Owl. Grey Owl was a gentle proponent of what he perceived as the simple life of the 'Indian.' He led many into an appreciation of nature. His work with the National Parks of Canada (then Dominion Park Service) in the 1930s (his cabin in Prince Albert National Park, where he lived for a time with his Mohawk (second) wife and their two pet beavers, is preserved and often visited) was important as he introduced many children to nature. Prior to that, he had worked as a forest ranger in northern Ontario (his first wife, of that time, was also Indian). Always he will be remembered as Grey Owl. The Canadian Government blurbs for Parks call him a 'noted naturalist'. http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/sk/princealbert/natcul1_c_e.asp I wish Dwayne Jensen good luck with his endeavors. Few people are more worthy of commemoration than Grey Owl, although his was not an earth-shaking role. Something that might be interesting to investigate is how many Park officials, naturalists, artists and writers in Saskatchewan-Manitoba-Ontario knew or suspected, but encouraged belief, in his authenticity. Some notes might be found in the archives of the "Group of Seven" and their contemporaries, papers of Ernest Thompson Seton, and Parks and Forest Service employment records. Remember that Grey Owl was following the lead of Ernest Thompson Seton, the Canadian naturalist, scientist, anthromorphosist and supporter of the 'natural' way of life. Grey Owl lived the life laid out in "The Two Little Savages" (published by Seton 1903, with many reprints up to the present day). Grey Owl, born 1888, would have been 15 years old when that book came out in both England and North America. Asa Earl Carter, as a typical white Southerner of his time, also would be a good subject for biography and film, but in no way should he be related to Grey Owl. |
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03 Sep 07 - 11:57 PM (#2140230) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: Cluin I suggest you contact James Gordon. He'll knock a fine thematic and well-produced acoustic song about Grey Owl out for you in short order. Right up his alley. |
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04 Sep 07 - 12:11 AM (#2140239) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: Stilly River Sage You certainly met my straw man with Mr. Straw Caravaggio! :) I didn't suggest Carter as a equivalent to Grey Owl, I suggested it sarcastically as a subject for someone whose rose colored glasses with the powerful blinders will allow him to be just another well-meaning (probably young, probably white) guy to speak up and defend the downtrodden Indian and tell his story, ala the Chief Seattle hokum that Ted Perry penned for the Southern Baptist Convention's really schmaltzy film that tried to do something along the same lines. My statement, of course, conflates Dwayne with "Grey Owl's friend." Gray Owl did have some interesting aspects to his life, I don't deny that. And as you point out, his influences were powerful and he was a man of his times. But telling some stories just stirs up more trouble than it's worth. The subtext here isn't "don't kill the messenger," but is "what spin is going to be put on the message this time," because we weary of unreliable narrators. SRS |
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04 Sep 07 - 12:24 AM (#2140244) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: Cluin I hope you make your film, Dwayne. I'd like to see it. I've always found Grey Owl/Archie Belaney an interesting character. I knew a guy a lot like him. |
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04 Sep 07 - 01:02 AM (#2140254) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: Q (Frank Staplin) Canadians regard Grey Owl as an effective early spokesman for nature and the defense of wildlife, not for the Indian, who is able to speak for himself. The rapid inroads into our boreal forest make his example and message more important now than when he was active in the Canadian Parks system- the first naturalist hired by them in 1931, a post he held until his untimely death in 1938. May the ghosts of Rawhide and Jelly Roll gnaw on his detractors! |
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04 Sep 07 - 01:54 AM (#2140269) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: GUEST Sooo.......Whhhoooooo?????? Gets the finder's fee, George????? or little john?????????? |
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04 Sep 07 - 02:07 AM (#2140275) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: GUEST,ddj47 All I wanted to find out is if there was a folk song about Grey Owl. I thank all of you because I have a few things to check out now. I have a blog that I will open soon, if you want, you can check in and comment as I go I'll post it here, maybe tomorrow. Thanks ddj47 |
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04 Sep 07 - 03:09 AM (#2140297) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: GUEST,Grey Owl's friend "Grey Owls friend. I was wondering when you say Grey Owl's friend, do you mean you acually knew him, to talk to etc.??" Sadly no, but I would have found him fascinating to talk to. I discovered Grey Owl when I was about 11 years old, through a biography of him in my local library. It was one of those moments when something changes you. I deeply admired his outlook on life and I respected the fact that he chose to turn his life around, that he recognised his faults and he tried to make amends for them. I called myself his 'friend' on here, merely because I was prepared to stand up for him, as I felt that some would come in with destructive and negative comments about him. I also called myself that because he was one more person who led me into a love of animals, nature and a realisation that people can turn their lives around and in so doing, change the lives of others and make a big impact on the world around them, for the better. He became 'Grey Owl' in every sense of the word. He did a great deal of good. He got people to think, to see a different way, to realise what was happening, what could and would happen if things didn't change. To call him a liar and a cheat is wrong. He fought hard to find the good in himself and those who, strangely, still seek to destroy that, should spend their time trying to find the good within themselves. I'm sure he would want his message to be heard loud and strong again in this world right now. We need many more 'Grey Owls' at present, people who are prepared to stand up and say what is wrong in this world. He could have been like thousands of others and continued his life from the bottom of a bottle, ruining lives, killing animals and blaming everyone else for his problems along the way. But he did not do that. He got down to the bottom of life, and then he clawed his way up again, to the top, taking many with him, changing things in a positive way. Yet now, here we all sit, at the bottom of life again, where apathy has come to rule a world that somehow has ceased to care. Where consumerism has replaced conservation in the list of important words. Grey Owl started his life as one man, he ended his life as another. But without the first part of his life and the problems within that part, he would not have found his way to the second part of his life. He simply became the person he was meant to be, for the reasons that were meant to be, that is all. We each have our own destiny to fulfill. Not all of us reach it in this lifetime. Grey Owl reached his. He was Grey Owl He will always be Grey Owl. Thank you for making a short film about him Dwayne. I hope that somehow your film finds its way into our schools, to our children, for they need wisdom passed on to them, they need to know that we all need to care far more than we do. They need Grey Owl, perhaps now more than ever before. |
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04 Sep 07 - 03:20 AM (#2140305) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: GUEST,Grey Owl's friend "One earth. One Mother. One does not sell the earth that people walk upon. We are the land." - Crazy Horse John Trudell and 'Crazy Horse' "We ARE the Seventh Generation" (taken from the song above) |
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04 Sep 07 - 06:05 AM (#2140387) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: Mick Tems There was actually a film based on the story of Grey Owl, with Pierce Brosnan playing the conservationist. |
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04 Sep 07 - 09:55 AM (#2140570) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: Q (Frank Staplin) A brief biography of this beloved Canadian naturalist and a picture of him and his Parks cabin at this Natural Parks of Canada website: Prince Albert Park Grey Owl |
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04 Sep 07 - 12:14 PM (#2140657) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: GUEST,ddj47 I've tried to find Grey Owl's cabin on google earth. As far as I know it's still there, with Canadian Parks looking after it. ddj47 |
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04 Sep 07 - 01:10 PM (#2140689) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: GUEST,ddj47 OK I have a blog up,about Grey Owl's animation. If you are interested go to http://www.dwaynejensen.com/wordpress/index.php My Site http://dwaynejensen.com |
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04 Sep 07 - 01:28 PM (#2140699) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Blicky for above |
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04 Sep 07 - 05:54 PM (#2140935) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: GUEST,Pete Titchener (Colcannon) Hi all, Like all of the above I too found the story of Grey Owl fascinating. A friend of mine, Geoff Hutchinson, wrote a condensed book about Archibald's life which is where I got the inspiration to write the song. As part of Geoff's research he actually went to Canada to 'follow in some of Grey Owl's footsteps'. Since then I have been given a couple of Grey Owl's books and one of them is actually signed by the man himself! I was also given a copy of the DVD mentioned above with Pierce Brosnan. (Too good looking in my opinion to play a man living from the land...) If Dwyane would like to contact me direct I'd be happy to send him a copy of my song. (See Colcannon's 'Dolphin Bay' CD on Greentrax.) Good luck!! Pete |
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04 Sep 07 - 08:01 PM (#2141042) Subject: RE: Grey Owl From: GUEST,ddj47 I tried to make those "blue clicky" links but didn't do it right. so if someone would to make those links for me that would be great. to my blog http://www.dwaynejensen.com/wordpress/index.php website http://dwaynejensen@shaw.ca thanks ddj47 |
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05 Sep 07 - 08:40 AM (#2141388) Subject: RE: Grey Owl (legendary fake Indian) From: Mick Tems Hello Pete, I did a review for the all-Wales magazine Taplas of Colcannon's CD Dolphin Bay, which includes your song Grey Owl - it was superb! Mick Tems |
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05 Sep 07 - 04:16 PM (#2141806) Subject: RE: Grey Owl (legendary fake Indian) From: john f weldon http://www.dwaynejensen.com/wordpress/index.php dwaynejensen(at)shaw.ca Dwayne's lynx Links fixed, the second isn't a website, but an e-mail address, with an '@' where the '(at)' is. JC |
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05 Sep 07 - 06:50 PM (#2141935) Subject: RE: Grey Owl (legendary fake Indian) From: Commander Crabbe In the book tales of an empty cabin there is a quote: And always I hear the sound of men dipping Down to the Chaudiere, their thin blades dripping, Catch the long, low wraith of a bark canoe And hear the wild sweet chansons of a phantom crew. this is attributed to Lloyd Roberts however I can't find it by a quick Google. Might be a start of a song. CC |
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05 Sep 07 - 11:57 PM (#2142101) Subject: RE: Grey Owl (legendary fake Indian) From: GUEST,Pete Titchener (Colcannon) Thank you Mick. I appreciate that. I'm not a regular Mudcat person - a friend of mine told me there was a thread I might be interested in... so I checked it out. Colcannon are about to head off on a 2 month tour to the northern hemisphere.... busy busy busy!! www.colcannon.net Pete |
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06 Sep 07 - 12:50 AM (#2142109) Subject: RE: Grey Owl (legendary fake Indian) From: open mike Grey Owl actually sat on a native council which was convened from first nations people. From what i heard some of the others (chiefs and tribal leaders) thought it a great joke that he was included in the circle, as he was not actually born as a native, although he did live the life and try to work for the rights of native people. He was born in England, to rather well to do parents as i recall. |
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07 Sep 07 - 12:31 AM (#2143035) Subject: RE: Grey Owl (legendary fake Indian) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Commander Crabbe- haven't found anything. Perhaps a new thread asking about it would help. |
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07 Sep 07 - 01:34 PM (#2143396) Subject: RE: Grey Owl (legendary fake Indian) From: Commander Crabbe Q It is on the title page of the chapter "Mississauga" and I still can't find anything as yet. CC |
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07 Sep 07 - 11:45 PM (#2143749) Subject: RE: Grey Owl (legendary fake Indian) From: GUEST,.gargoyle Iron Eyes Cody was also a "fake indian" Hollywood legend complete with the emotional ecology tears on USA commercials for pollution.
Sincerely,
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08 Sep 07 - 06:40 AM (#2143847) Subject: RE: Grey Owl (legendary fake Indian) From: Mr Happy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Owl |
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08 Sep 07 - 06:45 AM (#2143851) Subject: RE: Grey Owl (legendary fake Indian) From: kendall What about Chief Dan George? Don't tell me he was also a fake! |
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08 Sep 07 - 06:45 AM (#2143852) Subject: RE: Grey Owl (legendary fake Indian) From: Mr Happy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Eyes_Cody |
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09 Sep 07 - 11:31 AM (#2144625) Subject: RE: Grey Owl (legendary fake Indian) From: Mr Happy What about Chief Dan George? See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Dan_George |