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14 Sep 07 - 12:40 AM (#2148800) Subject: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: CapriUni This is a memory snippet that slipped to the front of my consciousness the other day, and won't leave: When I was about five or six years old, and about to lose my first baby tooth, and getting all excited about getting my first Tooth Fairy quarter, my mother said to me, in all seriousness: "You know, the Tooth Fairy is really a giant rat, that comes into your room..." I thought she was flat-out crazy. I mean, that went against everything the popular culture pointed at. For years and years, I thought that was just her, pulling my leg, and deliberately trying to counter the predominate culture's attempts to fit me into the lace and daisies mold for little girls (she'd also stop, in the middle of reading a storybook, like Babar the Elephant, and point out exactly how it was sexist tripe -- to a four-year old...). Then, one year, in high school, I came upon a book of animals in folklore, and in the chapter on rats, it mentioned that rats had such strong teeth (they do -- in reality, they can chew through solid concrete with no problem), that parents used to leave their children's baby teeth by rat holes, in the hopes that the rat would give one of its own in trade -- one that would never break, or get a cavity. Moral of the story? Never doubt The Mother!! Now, to make this a musical thread: does anyone know of any songs, or children's rhymes, that mention the tooth-rat (Checked Wikipedia, last night, and the tooth fairy article mentioned the "tooth mouse" tradition in Spain)? I also suspect that my mother got this from her mother, who was from Louisianna -- that has both Spanish and French connections. |
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14 Sep 07 - 01:22 AM (#2148814) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: Rowan These two are neither songs nor about tooth rats but a pair of Oz aphorisms meant as terms of disparagement; "He was a flash as a rat with a gold tooth!" and "Cunning as a dunny rat!" And your tooth fairy gave out quarters? The going rate for Oz tooth fairies was sixpence when I was a lad, though I gather inflation has, since, got to the tooth fairies too. The notion of a tooth rat does ring a bell, very dimly, in the distant recesses of what passes for my memory though. I'll try and think harder. Cheers, Rowan |
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14 Sep 07 - 01:38 AM (#2148818) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: CapriUni Yes. I suppose inflation is a factor... And since the Tooth Rat / Fairy no longer gives out actual teeth, any more, I suppose you could look at the coin (of whatever amount) as the recycling deposit return, the way we do with beverage bottles around here... |
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14 Sep 07 - 09:39 AM (#2149063) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh Never heard of The Tooth Rat, tho' I look forward to terrifying friends' children with tales of the critter; with regard to Australian folklore re. Rats, Brendan Behan (1950s/early 1960s) frequently used the expression "cute as a shithouse rat", where "cute" has the same sense as in Rowan's posting. Love the idea of a rat with a gold tooth. |
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14 Sep 07 - 11:36 AM (#2149174) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: clueless don I once saw a book (as I recall, it was in the waiting room of my wife's dentist, but recollection can be hazy) that described tooth fairy traditions from around the world, and there were several references involving rats. Don |
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14 Sep 07 - 01:17 PM (#2149253) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: Q (Frank Staplin) The tooth mouse tradition is widespread in Latin America. Raton Perez in Colombia. The story comes from Spain, Italy (Topino) and France; when or where started I don't know. Other animals and birds (magpie) share the blame in the orient. I wonder if the camp robber (a bird) is the exchanger among some western American Indians? The tooth fairy seems to be a fairly recent invention, ca. 1890s, from what I have found so far. |
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14 Sep 07 - 01:39 PM (#2149269) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: Q (Frank Staplin) A kid's animation film from Spain about "El Ratoncito Perez" has been released and has been shown in some American and Australian theatres as "The Hairy Tooth Fairy." A DVD has been released in Spain but I can't find it in American listings. On youtube- Ratoncito Perez |
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14 Sep 07 - 01:43 PM (#2149272) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: Q (Frank Staplin) Hmmm- found the youtube film through Google- "El Ratoncito Perez" film - |
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14 Sep 07 - 01:53 PM (#2149283) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: McGrath of Harlow It may be speciesist of me, but while a Tooth Mouse is quite a jolly idea - in fact I think I'd prefer it to a Tooth Fairy - a Tooth Rat is something else. And as for a Giant Tooth Rat... |
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14 Sep 07 - 02:11 PM (#2149299) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: CapriUni Q -- your link doesn't work. I also found a link to a short film by that name on YouTube (see below). I wonder if it's the same one: Here is the section from Wikipedia that mentions the tooth mouse -- though, as noted in the header, the article does not cite any sources. Perhaps we could get a Mudcat squad on the case? In Spanish speaking countries (according to this article), the character is known as Ratoncito Pérez, which is actually "little mouse" Pérez (not quite the same character to scare the neighbor kids with as a giant rat, but...). Putting the Spanish name into Google, the first hit I got was to the Spanish version of Wikipedia. As I read it through the computer translation, it looks like the tooth mouse was actually a literary creation from the end of the nineteenth century, by a Jesuit priest. Though he might have just been putting down, in literary form, a vague folk belief that goes back much further. I did find a YouTube video called "Ratoncito Pérez," about the tooth-buying ritual, though the mouse himself doesn't appear. McGrath -- I actually like rats, and think they get a bad rap (though I think a giant one would give me pause). But even a giant rat is preferrable, to me, to the trend (at least among American advertisers) to show the tooth fairy as a fat, middle-aged, un-shaven and surly man in a tutu and fake wings. That's just being clever and contrary for the sake of it. |
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14 Sep 07 - 02:21 PM (#2149309) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: Becca72 I never heard of the Tooth Rat either and I must say I feel a bit cheated, being a child who was quite taken with rodents. My uncle made up a story about a rat at the dump in the town I lived in from birth to age 4. Every time I outgrew something (bottles, cloth diapers, etc) we had to take it to the dump and give it to Freddy the Rat who would find his own use for it. But that was just my crazy uncle...the same man who told me that cows on the left side of the road give white milk and cows on the right side give chocolate milk. |
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14 Sep 07 - 02:41 PM (#2149337) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: CapriUni LOl, Becca -- Sounds like you had a terrific uncle. You know, I'm thinking, now, that the "Giant Tooth Rat" may just be an example of the folk process filtering through my own particular family. Perhaps my grandmother (or great-grand), hearing the Spanish "Raton" mistook mouse for rat. And my mother (or perhaps myself, and my own foggy memory) superimposed the human tooth fairy over that, giving Raton Perez human size. |
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14 Sep 07 - 03:44 PM (#2149382) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: Q (Frank Staplin) CapriUni, that's why I put the Google for the Youtube, the link failed (not available). No mouse featured and not much of a video. In Spanish, 'raton' is a broad term for mice and rats- in New Mexico, the town of Raton was named for kangaroo rats (these are really cute!), native to the southwest. From a field trip, a friend took one home from the Texas Panhandle. It would climb and jump all over his apartment, but one day it jumped from too great a height and broke its little neck. Ratona- female mouse or rat. Ratoncito- a little mouse. A brief filmclip of Perez- El ratoncito de sus suenos |
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14 Sep 07 - 04:17 PM (#2149404) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: Uncle_DaveO In Minnesota, all those many years ago, the price for the excess tooth was ten cents. And after all these years, it's only twenty-five cents? Scandalous! Dave Oesterreich |
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14 Sep 07 - 05:24 PM (#2149447) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: Becca72 It was 25 cents in the last '70s when I was loosing teeth. My friends with kids, er, I mean the Tooth Fairy now pay out up to $1 for a tooth. |
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14 Sep 07 - 05:56 PM (#2149472) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: CapriUni *Nods*. I started losing teeth in '69-70, iirc. |
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14 Sep 07 - 07:10 PM (#2149513) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: Becca72 That should have been "late 70s" duh |
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15 Sep 07 - 12:08 AM (#2149657) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: dulcimer42 Don't know about the tooth mouse. Maybe my grenddaughter would have preferred it to the fairy, as she love all animals. But she could hardly sleep the night she lost her first tooth. Mommy had told her the tooth fairy would come in the middle of the night and leave some money for the tooth. She was afraid to go to bed. She finally expained She Didn't want some funny little guy with wings cominging into her room while she was asleep. The pressures we put upon kids!!! Now a little mouse, she would have been much less afraid, I do believe. |
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15 Sep 07 - 01:26 AM (#2149679) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: CapriUni Dulcimer -- when I was that age, it was The Sandman that terrified me. As far as I was concerned, he was nothing but a bully who threw sand in your eyes, and practiced mind control by making you sleepy, when you really wanted to stay awake. As far as folklore character, I think the sandman is on the same tier as the tooth fairy -- definitely below the Easter Bunny and Santa... |
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15 Sep 07 - 03:56 PM (#2150032) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: oldhippie Becca, your uncle really was crazy - everyone knows the white cows give white milk, and the brown cows give chocolate milk ! |
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15 Sep 07 - 04:50 PM (#2150060) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: Becca72 Here in Maine a lot of the cows are black and white, not one color or the other, Oldhippie... |
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15 Sep 07 - 09:13 PM (#2150167) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: Joybell Pack Rats - found mainly in the American South-West and in Mexico are known for their habit of taking objects they find in houses and leaving something in exchange. They often exchange a piece of cactus or a stone for a coin or anything that takes their fancy. Don't know if this fits here but it seemed like a good idea to mention them. I really like rodents too. Rats are beautiful, gentle, clever creatures. Where as Faeries -- the real kind are not nice. Cheers, Joy |
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15 Sep 07 - 10:35 PM (#2150204) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: CapriUni Joybell -- I'm not sure, but I think the Tooth-rat legend started in Europe, not the Americas, though maybe all rats have similar tendencies in their habits, if not all at the same intensities. |
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16 Sep 07 - 06:03 AM (#2150287) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: Joybell CapriUni -- The stories about these rats "trading" seem to stem from the fact that they happen to drop anything they are carrying when they find something more interesting. These particular rats are American but it's possible other animals, and I imagine birds, might well do the same thing. The stories are interesting, though, and it's easy to see how "tall tales" or legends could be born. Cheers, Joy |
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16 Sep 07 - 10:57 AM (#2150405) Subject: RE: Folklore: Tooth 'Fairy' as Rat From: CapriUni Joybell -- and the only reasnon humans don't do that, is that we have invented pockets! ;-) (and I can see how a rat would think a young human tooth is more interesting than a coin -- a rat can probably get some nutrition out of the tooth... the coin is shiny, but blah). |