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EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant

01 Oct 07 - 06:17 AM (#2160959)
Subject: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: johnadams

Extract from Press Release

Hundreds of folk songs and tunes, representing a huge swathe of English traditional music heritage, are on their way back to the communities that gave birth to them.

The Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) has awarded a grant of £154,500 to the English Folk Dance and Song Society (EFDSS) for an exciting new project entitled Take 6. The grant will enable the EFDSS to archive and conserve six unique folk song manuscripts and make them more widely accessible to the public, including some of the communities where they were first collected.
The six manuscript collections are held by the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library of the EFDSS, based at Cecil Sharp House in London's Camden Town.

The award will enable the EFDSS, over the next two years, to archive and conserve over 4,400 paper items, digitise them and make them widely accessible through the web. The EFDSS will also pilot the use of the materials in London, in conjunction with a primary school in Southwark which has a history of promoting singing games – an annual festival there in the 1960s led to an album of recordings on the prestigious Topic Records label. Two of the manuscript collections will be used in primary schools and communities in two English regions where the songs were originally noted – Lancashire and Hampshire.

The Take 6 project will also produce classroom materials and exhibitions and the EFDSS will work in partnership with regional folk development agencies and volunteers to bring the songs to life for young people and hold showcase events in schools.

More in on the web site


01 Oct 07 - 06:37 AM (#2160961)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: treewind

Sounds wonderful. Congratulations!

Anahata


01 Oct 07 - 06:40 AM (#2160962)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: Bonnie Shaljean

Excellent news! Thanks for the heads-up John, and also for all your fine work over the years.


01 Oct 07 - 07:05 AM (#2160967)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: Ruth Archer

Eagerly awaiting the thoughts of Dick Miles...surprised he's not been in to congratulate EFDSS yet, actually.


01 Oct 07 - 10:38 AM (#2161109)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: Folkiedave

John I think this is absolutely terrific. A couple of weeks ago as I remember I posted that the magazine looked like that of an organisation that was going somewhere and should be supported and that people involved were starting to make a difference to the EFDSS.

You could do this quickly given loads of money or the society could evolve slowly given enthusiasm and support. Clearly others have recognised this.

Well done.


01 Oct 07 - 02:26 PM (#2161311)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: The Sandman

Ruth,
Have only just got to the computer.Congratulations, EFDSS.
Well done to all the people who have worked hard to acheive this.Dick Miles


01 Oct 07 - 02:32 PM (#2161317)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: GUEST,Sapper on the Flying Banana (NMT)

Well done all involved!
Makes a change to days gone past for EFDSS to be given some credit for it's work!


01 Oct 07 - 02:40 PM (#2161323)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: Richard Bridge

Excellent!

Next, the repeal of the licensing requirement for the performance of folk music and song.

After that a rule that apportions PRS and MCPS earnings for arrangements of folk music and song 9/10 to the original and 1/10 to the arranger - and gives teh 9/10 to the EFDSS or other designated archives or relevant projects.

Then sponsorship (maybe from Richard Branson?) for a set of recordings of Child Ballads with suggested melodies - let's try not to have too many from Martin Carthy, wonderful though he is, so that those of us who cannot dance in 17/4 while playing a guitar part in 5/4 get a chance -

After that some populist recordings of folk songs with contemporary arrangements. I know Stock Aitkin and Waterman are now old hat, but think on. Take some competent modern rockers into the studio with cut-down ballad lyrics and a mean riff (or a rapper with "Pretty Belle") and make some recordings that might get onto the R1 playlist -
(think sort of "Cotton eyed Joe", but as an arrangement of "Swaggering Boney) -

Next resurrect the education remit for public service broadcasters and make them play some of this fine stuff -

Nuada and their drone work at Glasto - or Reading - or Leeds -

Middle English lyrics for death metal bands -


Oooh, I must think some more!


02 Oct 07 - 02:35 AM (#2161655)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: Ruth Archer

Not sure the point you're trying to make, Richard...


02 Oct 07 - 03:07 AM (#2161669)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: Richard Bridge

Funding -
Outreach


02 Oct 07 - 03:11 AM (#2161671)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: Ruth Archer

Right...


02 Oct 07 - 04:37 AM (#2161705)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: the button

Well done for getting this. I've been involved in putting together a bid for Lottery money, and know something of the hard work this entails.

Also, well done for putting together such a good, imaginative project in your funding bid.


02 Oct 07 - 07:55 AM (#2161775)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: RoyH (Burl)

Congratulations EFDSS. Much maligned but still essential IMHO. Burl.


02 Oct 07 - 08:41 AM (#2161812)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: The Admiral

Sometimes the maligning is deserved Burl, but nevertheless on this occassion - Well Done EFDSS!


02 Oct 07 - 08:51 AM (#2161822)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: GUEST,Elfcall

Congratulations - brill news

I hope you have put in a good wodge of core costs in there too !

Elfcall


02 Oct 07 - 09:53 AM (#2161876)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: The Sandman

Much Maligned?
the past management deserves some criticism,those that have turned/turning things round now, have got my praise.well done again.
However if anyone feels that EFDSS should be criticised,they should feel free to do so,even if I wanted to[which I dont],I would feel intimidated to do so.Dick Miles


02 Oct 07 - 02:58 PM (#2162206)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: Surreysinger

Middle English lyrics for death metal bands .... do Glory Strokes include any such in their stage act?? Haven't yet heard or seen them in action, but they must be the closest we've got..

Oh and yes... great news ! (:-)


02 Oct 07 - 03:59 PM (#2162250)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: The Borchester Echo

GloryStrokes (all one word), 'a well oiled machine, come to kill you all'.
Jolly good.
Do it, Sheffield.
List of targets supplied on request.

As for the jobs, don't bother to apply unless you have the PG library diploma.
I did the course, but didn't turn up for the exam.
I'd just done a nightshift in a TV news library.


02 Oct 07 - 05:46 PM (#2162324)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: Alan Day

Great News and well done to the EFDSS new forward thinking committee.
There was some evidence of the hard work being done for modernisation of Cecil Sharp House and the EFDSS as an organisation in a recent discussion on this site,outlined by John Adams.
Well done John, onwards and upwards.
Al


02 Oct 07 - 06:14 PM (#2162333)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: Folkiedave

The name "Glorystrokes" came from Pete Smith of Sheffield City Morris and Grenoside Sword Dance Team.

And it has nothing to do with Middle English - trust me on that one. His reward was a Sample CD and I was in the car when he first played it. He took it back. Not into punk, thrash metal ceilidh music, our Pete.

Currently on the way to Australia via bus. Escaping Glorystrokes I heard......


02 Oct 07 - 06:26 PM (#2162342)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: Folkiedave

Apologies for the thread drift.

Dave


03 Oct 07 - 11:24 AM (#2162763)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: Mo the caller

Well done, let us hear how it goes in the local schools


03 Oct 07 - 11:40 AM (#2162772)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: GUEST,Brian Peters

"After that a rule that apportions PRS and MCPS earnings for arrangements of folk music and song 9/10 to the original and 1/10 to the arranger - and gives teh 9/10 to the EFDSS or other designated archives or relevant projects."

Yes, just the job, Mr. Bridge, why not take away the precious royalties that help me to sustain a career in traditional music? Since you're interested in Child ballads, would you agree that I should keep only 10% of the royalty for my arrangements of them - which often run to extensive reworking of both tunes and lyrics, never mind instrumental accompaniments?

But that's off topic. Excellent news as far as EFDSS is concerned.


03 Oct 07 - 01:29 PM (#2162844)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: Richard Bridge

The following is simplified.

The PRS collects the same amounts for contemporary songs, non-copyright songs, contemporary songs arranged by others, and non-copyright songs arranged by others. Oh, and non-copyright words with copyright music attached, and non-copyright melodies (and arrangements) with copyright words attached.

Where an arrangement (or new words) is with copyright material, then the division of such proceeds is allocated between the two (or more) copyright owners (well, actually, performing right owners) in the proportions they have agreed. If one has more "clout" he might get 90%. If I wanted to arrange a song by Andrew Lloyds-Bank, or one in which Cameron Mackintosh owned the rights, if I could get permission at all, that would be the BEST likely outcome for me AND in practice I would be forced to assign my copyright in my arrangement to them in consideration of the income stream I got. Those rightsowners preserve and promulgate their works as they see fit.

Where the "song" (curiously, copyright law does not recognise such a thing as a "song" that is to say a combination of words and music, but protects the musical work separately from the literary work) has non-sopyright words or music, all the money goes to the owner of the relevant rights in the copyright work.

When (as it does) the PRS coerces payments for the use of wholly non-copyright material, the money goes into "the black box" (ie non-attributable income: there is also a thing called "the grey box") and black box income is usually paid out to all those receiving PRS money pro rata to the money they get from the PRS. Well, some of it goes to support SECAM's swimming pool (this is only partly a joke).

So NONE of the money generated via PRS from non-copyright music goes to support, preserve, promulgate, etc that non-copyright music. In view of the cultural importance of much of that non-copyright music, that cannot be right.

I suggest that in the case of a Child ballad, the cultural value of the contribution of a modern tunesmith is likely to be about 10% of the cultural value of the whole. In the case of an arrangement of Greensleeves (let us imagine Davy Graham's Bluesleeves) I argue that the value of the contemporary arrangement is 10% of the whole.

The money derived from the non-copyright material should go to an organisation that protects preserves and promulgates the non-copyright material. It would better our cultural heritage. Sorry, Mr Peters, but that is to me (and to , I suggest, the country) more important than your economic wellbeing.

That is my case. Yours presumably is that you do more to protect preserve and promulgate in practice England's (and Scotland's and Wales') musical and lyrical cultural heritage than the EFDSS and the colelctions like the Vaughan Williams collection, and the Baring-Gould collection do. I wonder whether even Martin Carthy could make that claim.

It wasn't just a "flip" suggestion. The figures may be debatable but it seems to me a very good way to provide long-term support for our musical archives, and it has at least two possible advantages, first that it would encourage the EFDSS to put its treasurechest into play (imagine Congleton Bear" treated like Black-Eyed Peas' (it was them, wasn't it) version of "Cotton Eyed Joe") and second that it would not need primarly or secondary legislation only a rule change by the PRS. The snag is that the PRS is controlled by music publishers, so they might need their arm twisted more than a bit.


03 Oct 07 - 03:11 PM (#2162955)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: BB

Fantastic news, John. Let's hope this is just the beginning of 'proper' funding for the Society.

Barbara


04 Oct 07 - 06:07 AM (#2163454)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: GUEST,Brian Peters

"That is my case. Yours presumably is that you do more to protect preserve and promulgate in practice England's (and Scotland's and Wales') musical and lyrical cultural heritage than the EFDSS"

Er..... Where did I say or even imply that? It just seems to me that funding an organisation founded to preserve and promulgate our musical heritage (I'm a member, of course) by taking money out of the pockets of musicians who actually play the stuff is a curious way to go about it. And it occurs to me that a decision to award the copyright of Public Domain material (what, all of it?) to the EFDSS might not pass uncontested.

The hit version of "Cotton Eyed Joe" was by The Rednex, by the way.


04 Oct 07 - 06:43 AM (#2163470)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: GUEST,LTS Pretending to work

There is a Choral Public Domain library that has "copyright" on a lot of choral harmony music. They maintain a website I can't link to from this computer, but it's free to join and you can see, listen to performances of, download, save PDFs and print out all for free. Each piece is 'copyrighted' by CPDL with the disclaimer on it that it may be freely copied, stored, distributed and performed.

To allow EFDSS to "copyright" traditional music in the Public Domain would not be a bad thing, if it were regulated and serviced as the CPDL does. I'm pretty sure that preserving and mainaining such a wealth of music, making it available to all could do nothing but good for both the genre and EFDSS. They can start with the book Nutty recently acquired, published in 1811!

LTS


04 Oct 07 - 06:48 AM (#2163476)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: The Sandman

I agree, Brian.


04 Oct 07 - 08:32 AM (#2163533)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: greg stephens

May I register my total agreement with Brian Peters, and my total disagreement with Richard Bridges on his plausible but totally misconceived idea of giving the EFDSS 90%the out-of-copyright money.
Would that be 90% of the Bach money? No, that probably ought to go to Germany. Perhaps 90% of the Dowland money? Hang on a minute, didn't someone reckon he might be Irish?Oh, perhaps you only mean 90% of the "no known composer" money.So, the EFDSS should get the money, unless someone researches and discovers the composer? So, what happens then? Nobody gets the money? Or yet more new legislation? Well, let's face it, all music must have a composer(or several composers). So why should the EFDSS get the money only if the identity can't be established? I think your ideas need a little refining, Richard.
I have spent 40 years researching traditional English music, and then passing it on to other people, normally totally unpaid. Now, if I can occasionally get half-a-crown royalties for putting "Trad Arr. Stephens" on a CD cover, well good luck to me, I say.


04 Oct 07 - 11:54 AM (#2163697)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: Richard Bridge

PRS has SCARPRA A and SCARPRA B agreements with participating foreign collecting societies for copyright works from those places, system could be extended.

The arrangers of non-copyright music would still get their pennorth via the PRS for their arrangements, just as they would if they arranged copyright music.

Other countries had DPP categories ("Domaine Publique Payante"). Why not us and use it to do some good?


04 Oct 07 - 12:37 PM (#2163731)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: The Sandman

Greg Stephens is right,


05 Oct 07 - 08:37 AM (#2164360)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: greg stephens

Richard Bridges: can you elaborate on your strange scheme a bit? Will Purcell recordings attract royalties that will go to the EFDSS?And if not Purcell royalties, what other royalties? "Folk song" royalties? Perhaps you would care to define "folksongs"? (ha ha ha).
Actually, your scheme could be of enormouse personal benefit to me. It might deprive me of a few pence in royalities, but I think I might pick up in other directions. I am(if I may be so immodest) what passes for a bit of an "expert" in the matter of old English instrumental tunes, so I might get some fees as an expert witness when the EFDSS is in litigation with performers over these rights you wish to allocate.
    I think I might be just the sort chap to provide the background information on whether "Kershaw's Hornpipe" was in fact written by Joseph Kershaw, or by someone else entirely (even anon?).Remember, it's not always that easy to prove who did or did not write a two hundred year old song. A grand field for expert witnesses, not to mention lawyers. The lawyers, of course, are always the real winners from half-baked ill-thought out legislation.That is why lawyers advise the government on drawing up new laws, presumably.


05 Oct 07 - 08:57 AM (#2164371)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: The Sandman

on the subject of lawyers, how about a visit to www.crooked layers.com


05 Oct 07 - 09:32 AM (#2164393)
Subject: RE: EFDSS Wins Heritage Lottery Grant
From: GUEST,Elfcall

CB

I have known a few crooked layers in my time too !

Elfcall