|
22 Oct 07 - 12:08 PM (#2176507) Subject: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Donuel Our New Constitution http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html Our new Pentagon : In the largest Washington DC federal construction project since the PEntagon the new Homeland Security fortress is now underway. What does this all mean? I've said it all before. If there is such a thing as the quintisential last thread for an individual here, I suppose this is mine. If you like a youtube format there is plenty to do with what amounts to our new constitution that nullifies every emergency act , every word of the Constituion and every ammendement to the historic document. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Bush+51+directive&search=Search But of course none of Presidential directive 51 is to take place until the "castastrophic disaster" is declared. It is defined as a significant loss of life. PS there is also a directive 52 |
|
22 Oct 07 - 12:52 PM (#2176543) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Barry Finn There's no checks & balances & there's no Congress??????? We the people are fucked! This paves the way for a Coup. He assumes complete control of the government. He will be our 1st Dick-taker. So if he's not impeached before a disaster takes place (self-created, self-forefilling) will we ever make it in time to the polls in time to save this nation from a neo-con facist state? What will they need us for? Take a wild guess! Barry |
|
22 Oct 07 - 01:02 PM (#2176555) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Bill D http://www.metafilter.com/61456/Protectng-the-piece-of-damn-paper |
|
22 Oct 07 - 01:07 PM (#2176564) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Bill D http://minusthemusic.blogspot.com/2007/05/national-security-presidential.html seems others have noted this also. |
|
22 Oct 07 - 01:18 PM (#2176574) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Barry Finn Anothr item that the news media has seen as not fit for news worthy coverage. Barry |
|
22 Oct 07 - 01:46 PM (#2176601) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Goose Gander And this is happening more or less in open view - you can't call it a conspiracy because IT'S NOT HIDDEN ANYMORE. |
|
22 Oct 07 - 01:53 PM (#2176606) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace It never has been hidden. |
|
22 Oct 07 - 01:56 PM (#2176609) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk No, but something IS effectively hidden if the main media do not cover it and the vast majority of the citizens of a country are not aware of it on a daily basis, and do not understand its implications. That's how consent is manufactured. By covering certain news exhaustively and ignoring other news. That's why you will hear a lot about Brittney Spears' personal problems or how Iran is a "threat to the world", but very little about what Mr Bush is doing to establish his dictatorship. The legal moves that Adolf Hitler and Mussolini made to consolidate their power were not hidden either. They were just camouflaged and justified under rhetoric about other stuff, and the people bought it. |
|
22 Oct 07 - 01:57 PM (#2176611) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace "(24) Security. This directive and the information contained herein shall be protected from unauthorized disclosure, provided that, except for Annex A, the Annexes attached to this directive are classified and shall be accorded appropriate handling, consistent with applicable Executive Orders. GEORGE W. BUSH" Gotta love the guy, huh? |
|
22 Oct 07 - 02:02 PM (#2176614) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace True, LH, but when I want to know what my insurance policy says, I read it. I don't 'listen to the salesman'. |
|
22 Oct 07 - 02:08 PM (#2176620) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace '"Another [9/11 type terrorist] attack could create both a justification and an opportunity that is lacking today to retaliate against some known targets" (Statement by Pentagon official, leaked to the Washington Post, 23 April 2006)' |
|
22 Oct 07 - 02:12 PM (#2176624) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace . . . and the orders are already in place for the military to take over police duties at both federal and state levels. Makes a guy feel all warm inside. |
|
22 Oct 07 - 02:37 PM (#2176651) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Goose Gander Will that be the US military, or will that be Blackwater? |
|
22 Oct 07 - 02:37 PM (#2176652) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk Well, Peace, you're an old dog like me with a lot of experience, that's why. ;-) |
|
22 Oct 07 - 02:40 PM (#2176655) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Donuel The new seat of goverment is HS under presidential decree. HS needs more manpower. Call TITAN, Call Blackwater... A lot of proud guys with fancy new weapons will be glad to put disloyal America bashers in their place. |
|
22 Oct 07 - 02:40 PM (#2176656) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace LH, we been on before about this stuff, and it's just heating up. What odds they giving in Vegas it all happens on Bush's watch? |
|
22 Oct 07 - 04:30 PM (#2176763) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Donuel So you think that it will be done when Fred Thompson is playing the president? Oh well it will happen eventually (too much has been invested by Murcdoch and others) but until it does we might as well all be happy and bury this thread |
|
22 Oct 07 - 05:35 PM (#2176774) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace The thread can't go just yet, Don. We've yet to have someone, usually a nameless guest, tell us we have tinfoil hats. |
|
22 Oct 07 - 05:58 PM (#2176794) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: McGrath of Harlow My first reaction was, this has to be a spoof put together by some satirist. Someone please tell me I was right? |
|
22 Oct 07 - 05:59 PM (#2176795) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace Say it ain't so? No can do, McG of H. |
|
23 Oct 07 - 10:22 AM (#2177249) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace Lest we forget . . . . |
|
23 Oct 07 - 09:30 PM (#2177730) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: GUEST,a shadow of my former elf Am I the nameless guest? Seems I get an "access denied" screen whenever I pass by here nowadays. Must've been the Hitlary '08 handle I started using. Directive 51 is hot air. It has to be enforced. I shot one-inch groups at 200 yards this weekend, and I was outshot. They should've disarmed us first, like they did the Canadiennes and the Brits. Those poor folks. A link to a transcript of a 3-hour radio show--the most interesting thing I've read lately: http://www.rense.com/general77/fulf.htm I'd list the link in a more appropriate place, but it's all tea and crumpets here now. Essentially, Fulford says it's over for the global elite in the west. They have til High Noon to shit or git off the pot. The SARS stuff is interesting. The whole thing's interesting. The audio may be archived at the Rense site. And how 'bout the Bill Maher thing last Friday? The mass murderers of 9-11 are in sooo much trouble. Don't bother responding to this. The fascists rarely let me through this door nowadays. Cheerio, y'all.
-Joe Offer- |
|
23 Oct 07 - 10:03 PM (#2177752) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: GUEST,shadow of... Well, since I'm here, I may as well elaborate on the Bill Maher comment. Several people in the audience of his live cable television program last week spoke up about the ongoing September 11 coverup. They were scattered through the audience, and when one would get hustled away by security, another would stand up and shout. they disrupted Maher's show for 5 minutes, and during that time he revealed himself as one of the Bush/Clinton sub-demons. He actually defended GWBush. He's a gatekeeper for the liberal branch of the neocon fascists. The film clip has just hit Youtube and will be yanked and reposted, yanked and reposted I'm sure, so just go to youtube and search for something like, "Bill Maher Throws Out 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists On Live TV." Ought to bring up something. 9/11 is the seminal event. It is the seed of the destruction of people who'd try to make you think PD 51 trumps the Bill of Rights. |
|
23 Oct 07 - 10:23 PM (#2177764) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk We canadians are not unarmed. You'd be surprised how many privately owned guns there are in this country. Thanks for the link. A lot of interesting stuff there...they even mention David Icke and his weird theories in passing. Very interesting indeed. I had not heard about the Oriental connections before. |
|
24 Oct 07 - 08:54 AM (#2178029) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace Estimates are 2.4 million to 3.8 million firearms in the counter of Canada. |
|
24 Oct 07 - 09:00 AM (#2178037) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: McGrath of Harlow "Canadiennes" would rather imply he was just talking about Canadian women - and probably only the French speaking ones. |
|
24 Oct 07 - 09:11 AM (#2178056) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace Well, O Nameless One, I agree with your politics but you don't know jackshit about Canada. |
|
24 Oct 07 - 09:23 AM (#2178066) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk Ditto. |
|
24 Oct 07 - 02:00 PM (#2178282) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Donuel "My first reaction was, this has to be a spoof put together by some satirist." Yes indeed I am a satirist who sometimes find it necessary to show what is happening... thats why I used the official WhiteHouse.gov website link http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html For 60 years the goverment has been controlled by no fewer than 100 corporations. It is no longer arrogance but merely a natural course of events for corporate war profiteers who control a military empire to overtly take over the entire constitutional chain of command and balances so that there are no obstacles to war except for flesh and blood that can be obliterated with extreme predjudice and low cost. |
|
24 Oct 07 - 02:22 PM (#2178302) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk Abraham Lincoln was already warning in the 1860's that big business interests were threatening to subvert and destroy the democratic traditions of the USA. It's inevitable, really, that that would happen in a $ySStem where money is the final arbiter of all important decisions, and where decisions are made in order to secure profits...and other forms of personal gain for those in charge of either making the decisions...or going along with them. You can easily hire people to kill the ones who don't go along or to simply intimidate them into silence. You can control the primary media sources, because you own them. You can edit what people hear about and what they don't. You can shape media reporting to mould the common people's perceptions of reality. The only real chink in that armor is the Internet, at this point...and the fact that these guys don't control the whole world. They're working on doing so, mind you, but I do not think they will succeed. |
|
24 Oct 07 - 02:45 PM (#2178317) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace It would be soooo easy to shut the 'net down. (Ninety percent of it, anyway.) |
|
24 Oct 07 - 03:07 PM (#2178341) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk How? Through the servers? |
|
24 Oct 07 - 06:14 PM (#2178472) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: dick greenhaus Well, if worst comes to worst, we can move to Cuba. Bush is trying to make sure that they have a democratic government. |
|
24 Oct 07 - 06:17 PM (#2178478) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace Bush had best spend his time making sure the United States of America has a democratic government. If democracy's good enough for them, then it's good enough for Americans. |
|
25 Oct 07 - 01:26 AM (#2178644) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: GUEST,a shadow of my former elf So what are you saying Joe Offer, that I see the access denied screen because I use assorted names? I think a more likely reason is that you just have some pissy moderators who thought they were "liberals" all their lives but are now starting to realize they are fascists. Welfare-state fascists. Their Chosen One Hitlary says Americans should be FORCED to purchase health insurance, and the Iraq war should go on forever, and there won't be any tax increases for the super rich. Must be hard to be a Democrat nowadays. Let's see...before the door's slammed on me again, the Fulford thing. Somehow I get the feeling the guy is perpetrating a hoax. Things are so utterly bad in America, it seems as if nothing short of a miracle can save the country. And up pops this miracle. A mysterious Oriental society. And if the wicked Illuminati doesn't go along with the society's wishes, it'll kill, probably with technology that causes strokes. And they'll start at the top with David Rockefeller. But Rockefeller is 96 frickin years old, so if he has a stroke tomorrow, what does that mean? Is it just nature taking its course, or have we been saved by the Yakuza? Man. What a perfect cover story. The only thing that would make me believe the story is is video of Cheney getting disassembled with samurai swords. So, should I just stick to the "Hitlary '08" handle, Joe? I've worked up a nice bumper sticker design with the slogan and sent it to the Clinton campaign...waiting to hear back. I think it would appeal to the far right-wing crowd, pull people together under the big tent and all that. Let me know on the handle thing.
Thank you. -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
|
25 Oct 07 - 03:43 AM (#2178665) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Joe Offer I have to say I see no reason for alarm about this "Directive 51." It seems to be just an update of the "Doomsday Plan" we've had for a generation or more. You can put "spin" on it and see it as some evil right-wing plot to take over the country, but I really don't think that's likely to happen. And if an unthinkable catastrophe DID happen, I'm reassured to know that there's some sort of plan in place that will attempt to keep the government running. It's one of those plans you hope never gets used, but I'm glad to know that it's there if it's needed. -Joe Offer (I've never been good at believing in conspiracies)- |
|
25 Oct 07 - 10:53 AM (#2178900) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: dick greenhaus Joe- It's just that the same people who cn declare an emergency are the ones that get all the power if an emergency is declared that bothers me. I'm a firm disbeliever in laws that work only if we can assume good will on the part of the enforcers. |
|
25 Oct 07 - 02:52 PM (#2179113) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Barry Finn Agreed Dick & there are no checks & balances built into "51" to prevent a tragic mishandling of those powers. It's a step in the wrong direction without a safety valve & without any restraint. There's reason to believe that this could be used as a way to circumvent what otherwise would need congressional appvoval. I'm dead against giving that type of power & control over to fools never mind giving it to those that can be trusted. It's giving away the farm for an unjustified feeling of security. So far the government hasn't handled one national emergency crisis with care & intellegance what makes anyone think that giving one man complete control of the whole (espically a idiot) country would make us safer. Do we really need to be that SAFE??????? Barry |
|
25 Oct 07 - 03:22 PM (#2179122) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk You say you're not inclined to believe in in conspiracies, Joe? But there are always conspiracies. Thousands and thousands of them, big and small, private and national. Every plan that is hatched in secret behind closed doors between two or more people who have little or no intention of revealing all its details to the entire world outside those doors IS a conspiracy. It's a conspiracy whether or not it is a good plan or a bad plan, whether or not it has been hatched by criminal minds or public benefactors. It's a conspiracy when the "bad guys" do it, it's a conspiracy when the "good guys" do it. Therefore, to say you are not inclined to believe in conspiracies is just downright silly. What you are really saying is that you are not inclined to believe in those conspiracies that didn't already occur to you or that you don't find agreeable to your view of the things are....... ;-) The Bush administration has been hatching its own conspiracies since Day 1, regardless of whether or not it has to do with the Illuminati or some such group. That's what administrations do. They hatch conspiracies, they camouflage them under patriotic blather and propaganda and disinformation, and they hope most people will be fooled and that their conspiracy will achieve its intended goals. |
|
25 Oct 07 - 11:47 PM (#2179439) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Richard Bridge I'm always amused at the idea that a bunch of people with rifles can effectively resist the military force that bombed Afghanistan and Iraq back into the stone age. |
|
26 Oct 07 - 12:24 AM (#2179448) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk Oh, they may have tried to bomb Afghanistan and Iraq back to the stone age, Richard, but they have not yet succeeded in doing so. And they're not going to succeed. The Afghans and the Iraqis will outlast the American empire, just like the Vietnamese did. |
|
26 Oct 07 - 12:24 AM (#2179449) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Barry Finn I can't seem to find the amusement but I do find that the stupidity of a military that's capuabale of boming Afghanistan & Iraq back into the stone age can't figure out how their enemy's strengths are working at their own weaknesses to defeat them, espically when one would think that they've already learn the same lessons not 40 yrs earlier Barry |
|
26 Oct 07 - 12:43 AM (#2179456) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk They are incapable of winning their pre-emptive foreign wars of aggression, because those wars were launched for stupid and downright insane reasons, on false pretenses that virtually no one would believe except maybe about half the American public who know nothing they don't hear on mainstream TV, and because their wars are irrational and unjustifiable on any basis. Such causes are never won in the end, they are lost, because they have no moral basis whatsoever...and because their military presence is utterly intolerable to the people whose lands they invade. Like Hitler and Mussolini they don't deserve to win their damned wars, and they are not going to win them. But it will take time and a lot more blood before it's over. The so-called War on Terror IS terrorism. It's the number one terrorist effort in the world....which is NOT to say, however, that the American soldiers who are serving over there realize they are committing terrorism. They don't, and I wouldn't expect them to. Soldiers almost never realize a thing like that, because they are simply doing the job they were trained to do, as best they can, and suffering and often dying in the process. It's not their fault. It's the fault of the politicians who sent them there under false pretenses, in pursuit of a hidden agenda. |
|
26 Oct 07 - 10:59 AM (#2179715) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace Ours is not to reason why . . . . |
|
26 Oct 07 - 11:03 AM (#2179717) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace The Charge of the Light Brigade by Alfred Tennyson. Half a league, half a league, Half a league onward, All in the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. "Forward the Light Brigade! Charge for the guns!" he said. Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. Forward, the Light Brigade!" Was there a man dismay'd? Not tho' the soldier knew Some one had blunder'd. Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die. Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon in front of them Volley'd and thunder'd; Storm'd at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well, Into the jaws of Death, Into the mouth of hell Rode the six hundred. Flash'd all their sabres bare, Flash'd as they turn'd in air Sabring the gunners there, Charging an army, while All the world wonder'd. Plunged in the battery-smoke Right thro' the line they broke; Cossack and Russian Reel'd from the sabre-stroke Shatter'd and sunder'd. Then they rode back, but not, Not the six hundred. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon behind them Volley'd and thunder'd; Storm'd at with shot and shell, While horse and hero fell, They that had fought so well Came thro' the jaws of Death, Back from the mouth of hell, All that was left of them, Left of six hundred. When can their glory fade? O the wild charge they made! All the world wonder'd. Honor the charge they made! Honor the Light Brigade, Noble six hundred! |
|
26 Oct 07 - 06:30 PM (#2180065) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Stringsinger "The so-called War on Terror IS terrorism. It's the number one terrorist effort in the world." Little Hawk, the "War on Terror" is a ruse. Substitute the word "terror" for "communist" and you see the pattern. Create an enemy, divide and conquer. From: Joe Offer - PM " You can put "spin" on it and see it as some evil right-wing plot to take over the country, but I really don't think that's likely to happen." Joe, it already has happened while most Americans have been asleep. The Constitution is being dismantled before our eyes. This is why the US is in Iraq and why Bush wants us in Iran. A news blackout is part of the takeover. Anyone that speaks out in the entertainment field today is going to get "Dixie Chicked". Another disaster like 911 or Katrina will introduce martial law. The concentration camps are ready. This time is worse than McCarthyism because Bush can retain dissenters at will. During McCarthy there was the Fifth Amendment to protect dissenters from jail time. Not any more. "-Joe Offer (I've never been good at believing in conspiracies)-" I think that conspiracy theories are a good thing. They bring important issues to light that are ignored by the main-stream media and a corrupt administration. We don't have the answers as to why 911 happened and I am not willing to drink the White House Kool Aid. Frank |
|
26 Oct 07 - 06:39 PM (#2180074) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk I agree with you on every count, Frank. Yes, the War on Terror is a ruse. After the Soviet system's collapse in '89 the USA's gigantic military-industrial complex needed a new enemy, and soon. So they manufactured one. Now they have a war that is defined in such a manner that it can never be brought to an end. What could be more perfect for their purposes? George Orwell predicted this sort of thing in "1984". He was off by less than 20 years. But he did NOT expect it to be achieved by capitalists, and that is kind of ironical, I think. |
|
26 Oct 07 - 07:22 PM (#2180091) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace "But he did NOT expect it to be achieved by capitalists" However, he should have, because such things always are, regardless their 'political posturing'. |
|
26 Oct 07 - 07:24 PM (#2180092) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Stringsinger Little Hawk, here is how I see it. Runaway capitalism is a form of totalitarianism whereby the corporation controls the public interests. It has almost a theocratic resonance in the US. Since Reagan's trashing of our government and his attempt to sell it off to the highest bidder, the corporation has become a "human" entity (schizophrenic to say the least) which claims the right of a human being. It is not a human being at all but a mistreatment of a law by a clerk from Santa Clara County, CA involving the rights of railroads. Thom Hartmann has documented this in his book "Screwed". Smedley Butler warned us prior to Eisenhower about the rise of the industrial-military complex in his essay, "War Is A Racket". The evidence is to take a look at those who have profitted from past wars. The so-called "war on terror" is an attempt to engage a sonambulent public by evoking an imaginary enemy. I am shocked to find some otherwise progressive members of Congress who have bought into this mythology. The Pentagon is dangerously involved in the political process (Gen. Betrayus, Oliver North) and the evangelical religious organizations that have infiltrated it. The word "crusade" appears in the religious pamphlets that flood the military these days. This is contrary to the US Constitution and is another example of how our great document is being trashed. Frank |
|
26 Oct 07 - 07:49 PM (#2180120) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Bobert Ahhhhhh, what am I missing here??? The US has been in more wars since WW II than any other nation... It is addicted to war... How else could the massive redristribution of wealth away from the working class in favor of the military industrialists occur??? Eisenhower told us this might happen and now it has... The US government is now completely controlled by the "Masters of War"... And there is no way out of it... No way... B~ |
|
26 Oct 07 - 07:51 PM (#2180123) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace Yes there is, Bobert. The notion that there is no way to stop the bastards is, IMO, wrong. However, there will be a price to pay, and it will be steep. |
|
26 Oct 07 - 08:04 PM (#2180134) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Bobert Yeah, yer right, Brucie... But even then it's a long shot and will take a major revolution... Problem is that last time we tried to pull it off the creeps killed off all our spokesmen... We can't beat these folks militaristically and they own the media and can have anyone dead they want dead so, ahhhhhhh, it is a long shot... Throw in the dumbed down militaristic thinking epsilons they use as gate-keepers, I wouldn't have the slightest idea on how about going about stopping them... It's like they have all the power, all the guns and they can change the rules any time they want??? I am completely open to any ideas... B~ |
|
26 Oct 07 - 08:12 PM (#2180142) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: dick greenhaus Voting isn't a bad first step. |
|
26 Oct 07 - 08:30 PM (#2180149) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Bobert With all due respect, Dick, but for whom??? I have voted all my adult life... The only major candidate who won was Jimmy Carter... That was pushing 40 years ago... The process doesn't allow a Dennis Kucini8ch to even get asked a friggin' question in the debates and then Hillary and Edwards are making back=room deal to even get him outta the debates??? So, excatly how is voting going to bring about a cultural shift where the US isn't going to continue on it imperialistic/militraistic path??? That is the big question here... B~ |
|
27 Oct 07 - 12:16 AM (#2180263) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk What Bobert said. I always vote too, Dick. Sure, it's a start, but not much of one as things stand now. I'll tell you what will beat this $ySStem...it's own insanity and excessiveness will beat it in the end as happens with all corrupt systmes that overreach themselves. The trouble is, a lot of people will suffer and die before we reach that end, and there's no guarantee what will emerge out of the wreckage of this godforsaken $ySStem we are presently living under. |
|
27 Oct 07 - 06:09 PM (#2180638) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: dick greenhaus Well, let's see. Getting involved with local politics is time-consuming and dull--but it has a real effect on who's going to run for president. Simply calling congressman and letting them know what you feel they should vote for isn't a bad idea either. Believe it or not, they often listen. Or, as I said, we can all move to Cuba, where Bush is working on installing a democracy. Of course, it would be nice if he tried it here first. |
|
27 Oct 07 - 06:31 PM (#2180644) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Bobert Bush hates democracy, Dick... He absolutely hates it... It almost cost him the job he now has... As fir writing Congressmen??? I've sent more letter to them knotheads over the last 40 years to choke an elephant... I'm probably responsible for several trees worth of paper... I've also writen letters to newspapers... I've marched in or co-organized many a demonstration... The deck, I am afrain, is hopelessly stacked against the US surviving it's own corruption which is quickly eating US alive... The Iraq war is "Exhibit A" on just how a corrupt military/industrial complex can eat away at the4 fablic of our country... They wanted it and they got it... Just as they will get the next war... And the next until our working class is reduced to living like folks in Third World countries just lining the pockets of "Masters of War"... B~ |
|
27 Oct 07 - 09:09 PM (#2180723) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk I'm not an American citizen, dick, so I don't have much pull with your Congressmen. However, I wish both you and Bobert good luck in dealing with the situation as best you can, each in your own way, and I mean that. Meanwhile, I will try to deal with the Canadian situation in my own way. |
|
27 Oct 07 - 11:15 PM (#2180776) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: dick greenhaus I suspect that Bobert's (and my) activism is somewhat offset by the general public's apathy. But we keep plugging away. |
|
27 Oct 07 - 11:16 PM (#2180777) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace Keep doing that, Dick. |
|
28 Oct 07 - 12:22 PM (#2181044) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: dick greenhaus Of course, a workable solution might be to find a really neocon fanatic and put him up to lead a third party--could siphon a lot of votes from the ones in power now. Roosevelt did this with Orville Faubus when it looked like Huey LOng might be getting out of hand. |
|
28 Oct 07 - 02:01 PM (#2181100) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk That's exactly how 3rd parties function in the USA. They siphon votes away from one of the 2 big parties, so the other one can win easily. That's because you have a "first past the post -winner takes all" type of system. Such systems are neither beneficial nor democratic in their effect on the political process, but they are great for maintaining entrenched power structures. |
|
29 Oct 07 - 09:50 AM (#2181796) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Teribus I'd love to hear the "Stringsinger"/ Little Hawk definition of who or what they think this mega-evil, all powerful "corporation" is that is plotting our collective downfall. Sounds a complete and utter load of cobblers to me - "concentration camps" already built eh? - Got the addresses of any Frank? Can we go and see one so that we could at least pick out our bunk. As they no doubt can identify "it", or "them" to match their scaremongering, I believe that analysis and investigation of their claims will result in the "corporation" being identified as a business venture, more than likely in public ownership with millions of shareholders, including insurance companies and pension funds, i.e. actually owned by those they are attempting to round up and jam into Frank's "Concentration Camps". Complete and utter crap. Sounds as though LH spends far too much time war-gaming and believing a load of crap he read in comic books as a child. Talk about "Wag-The-Dogitis". All these conspiracy theory believers - If you want to attempt to present a lie as the truth, the maximum number of people that can be aware of it is three, two who actually know that it is a lie and the third who is only in on the "lie" half of the story. Now for 911 how many would have to know - at least hundreds if not thousands - simply not plausible. |
|
29 Oct 07 - 09:58 AM (#2181800) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk It's quite a large number of major corporate entities, Teribus, not just one monolithic name. Big business has one objective: to maximize its market share and its profits. That leads in one direction...if you accompany it with no moral sense of responsibility whatsoever. I'm sure they are delighted to have your tacit support, and if you're young and vigorous enough they might even give you a key position as one of their hatchetmen. Or if not, well, they'll give it to your son(s) instead. Won't that be lovely? ;-) |
|
29 Oct 07 - 09:59 AM (#2181802) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Teribus Sorry I forgot. To the following: Richard Bridge; Little Hawk; Barry Finn. I was not aware that the United States of America had made any attempt to "bomb" anyone back to the Stone-Age, or any other era for that matter, in recent years. They most certainly have the capacity and the ability, but, events show that so far they have resisted the temptation to actually do so. |
|
29 Oct 07 - 10:01 AM (#2181805) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk The only temptation the USA has resisted lately (since 1945) is unilaterally dropping nuclear weapons on someone. Let's see if they can continue resisting that one or not. |
|
29 Oct 07 - 10:09 AM (#2181814) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Donuel US Depleted Uranium weapons in the Balkans and Iraq amounts to over 10,000 Hiroshima sized bombs in the amount of radioactivity unleashed over 17 years. |
|
29 Oct 07 - 10:17 AM (#2181821) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk Oh, well, that's different...the results are only noticeable to the local people who are directly affected by the radiation, and they may not even realize where it's coming from. It's the "invisible" way of nuking people. Much kinder and gentler. |
|
29 Oct 07 - 10:35 AM (#2181837) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Teribus "US Depleted Uranium weapons in the Balkans and Iraq amounts to over 10,000 Hiroshima sized bombs in the amount of radioactivity unleashed over 17 years." - Donuel Now let's see: The Depleted Uranium of which you speak occurs naturally - is that a danger to us all Donuel - No it isn't. Only US Depleted Uranium weapons are the problem, Donuel? What about those fired by Saddam Hussein's gunships? What about those fired by the Soviets? How is it that these Depleated Uranium weapons are only a problem in the Balkans and in Iraq, Donuel? How about in the locations in various countries where there are "live-fire" ranges where they practice and test these munitions? How about the factories where those munitions are machined and made? Your statement is inaccurate, misleading, uneducated, emotive crap. |
|
29 Oct 07 - 12:51 PM (#2181978) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk And it's counterproductive to raising support for foreign wars of aggression too. It causes a loss of confidence to speak of such things. Just stop it right now, Donuel! |
|
30 Oct 07 - 01:48 AM (#2182426) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Barry Finn Teribus, I said "I do find that the stupidity of a military that's capable of bombing Afghanistan & Iraq back into the stone age" not that the "United States of America had made any attempt to "bomb" anyone back to the Stone-Age, or any other era for that matter" note that I said they, as a military, was "capable" not that there was any "attempt" buy the military! that was your twist on what was said. Please get it right. If you want an address for these corporations try "any # Wall Street". Or look up any of the Energy Trading firms, Chemical trading comodity Industries, etc. You're like the little kid that's gotta be taken by the hand, shown into the bath room, placed in front of the urinal & then told what to look at before you can actually understand what's gotta be done. Get a grip man & start thinking for yourself. Barry |
|
30 Oct 07 - 02:29 AM (#2182428) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Teribus Reading through some of the posts on this thread Barry, it certainly is not me that needs to "get a grip" of reality. As usual I am responded to by personal attack, not a single point that I have made to counter the more outrageous claims has been addressed. By all means Barry, tell us HOW the Energy trading Companies and Chemical trading comodity Industries are building Frank's "Concentration Camps" and attempting to enslave us all. "Any # Wall Street" - my arse. If you want a little piece of reality Barry, ask yourself, then go and find out, who works for these "Corporations" that Little Hawk & Co keep banging on about, find out who owns their shares. You will find that in the majority of cases where the stock is listed they are people no different from you or from me. |
|
30 Oct 07 - 09:35 AM (#2182598) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk The shareholders are simply a lot of poor saps (or maybe clever traders) who have invested their money in the corporate monster, Teribus. The Board of Directors of the corporate monster are the ones who control it. The few suits at the top (most importantly, the Chairman) control it. Most of the shareholders are just hoping their portfolio will go up this year, not down, and they don't have bugger-all to do with determining that corporation's policies...nor do they know bugger-all about it in the first place. To say that the shareholders control the corporation or manage corporate policy is as laughable as saying that the voters control and manage government policy in the USA, the UK or anywhere else. LOL! That's funny, mate! If you believe it, I've got a bridge to sell you. |
|
30 Oct 07 - 12:40 PM (#2182707) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace The coming thing is seeds disguised as seeds. Here's what happens. Ya drop tons and tons of seeds near rivers and water supplies. Seeds that turn into water-sucking plants. Eucalyptus, purple loose strife. Follow that up with air strikes wherein you drop fertilizer. Let the plants grow. THEN, instead of sending in the military, send in people who farm. Together, the people from both sides will have to find a way to defeat the trees and plants. The genius of sheer simplicity. |
|
30 Oct 07 - 01:11 PM (#2182727) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace Just thought: it would give new meaning to the word 'silos'. We could be onto something here, guys and gals. |
|
30 Oct 07 - 01:18 PM (#2182736) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Donuel Teribus, I would never automaticly respond to you with a knee jerk personal attack. I would weigh the issue, truth and tolerence of what you have to say. Ad Hominum attacks are often merely juvenile. In this case I would would like to bind you with wire and force feed you DU like a goose in November. While I am sure you would cry nimby I would continue until you resembled a Macy's day balloon because in this case taking the respondsibility yourself for what you claim is fine to do to others is of paramount importence and morality. |
|
30 Oct 07 - 02:14 PM (#2182787) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Teribus "The Board of Directors of the corporate monster are the ones who control it." - What bloody comic book did you lift that from Little Hawk?? "The Board of Directors" according to Company Law this side of the pond have to be nominated and elected to the Board and guess who has the final say as to whether they sit on the Board as Directors - dramatic roll of drums - The shareholders, yes Little Hawk, those poor saps who by investing their money in the corporate monster - actually own the bloody thing. Now this other one I really liked: "In this case I would would like to bind you with wire and force feed you DU like a goose in November." - Donuel Very kind of you Donuel, now let's see what the WHO says would result from your actions. Point 1 - 98% of everything you feed into me will not be absorbed but would pass right on through. Point 2 - Contact exposure with DU through the skin is very low and unimportant. Point 3 - Gut absorption rates for uranium in food and water are about 2% for soluble and about 0.2% for insoluble uranium compounds. Point 4 - The fraction of uranium absorbed into the blood is generally greater following inhalation than following ingestion of the same chemical form. Of the uranium that is absorbed into the blood, approximately 70% will be filtered by the kidney and excreted in the urine within 24 hours; this amount increases to 90% within a few days. Point 5 - In assessing potential health effects of exposure to depleted uranium no consistent or confirmed adverse chemical effects of uranium have been reported for the skeleton or liver. So I am left with the distinct impression that there would be no swelling to the proportions of a "Macey's Day" Balloon or any engorgement of my liver like a Strasbourg Goose. But anyway Donuel, thanks for the gesture but as with most of your endeavours your time would be a damn sight better spent engaged in something a bit more purposeful. Now then Donuel care to weigh the issues, truths and tolerance and come up with some sort of reponse to the questions you were asked relating to your assertion that: "US Depleted Uranium weapons in the Balkans and Iraq amounts to over 10,000 Hiroshima sized bombs in the amount of radioactivity unleashed over 17 years." Only US Depleted Uranium weapons are the problem, Donuel? What about those fired by Saddam Hussein's gunships? What about those fired by the Soviets? How is it that these Depleated Uranium weapons are only a problem in the Balkans and in Iraq, Donuel? How about in the locations in various countries where there are "live-fire" ranges where they practice and test these munitions? How about the factories where those munitions are machined and made? By the bye Donuel have you got any idea why it is called "Depleated" Uranium? Natural uranium consists of a mixture of three radioactive isotopes which are identified by the mass numbers 238U (99.27% by mass), 235U (0.72%) and 234U (0.0054%). Depleted uranium contains about 99.8% 238U, 0.2% 235U and 0.001% 234U by mass. The main difference between DU and natural uranium is that the former contains at least three times less 235U than the latter. DU, consequently, is weakly radioactive and a radiation dose from it would be about 60% of that from purified natural uranium with the same mass. So Donuel it is actually less radioactive than natural uranium that can be found just lying about on the face of the planet - how come we didn't all die off centuries ago, if it is as dangerous as Donuel would like to make us all think it is. |
|
30 Oct 07 - 02:17 PM (#2182790) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Peace So, my seed idea ain't gonna fly, is it. S'ok. I'll be back. Gonna make you all an offer you can't refuse . . . . |
|
30 Oct 07 - 03:33 PM (#2182840) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Little Hawk There are different types of shares, Teribus... Preferred Shares and Common Shares. The Preferred Shares are usually issued to a small group of original investors who set up the company, appoint a Board of Directors from amongst themselves, and then issue a great number of Common Shares which are sold to the ordinary public...people such as you and me. The ordinary public buys those shares in hopes that their investment will appreciate. The original investors, who are probably sitting on the Board, happily take the public's money and use it to finance the company's activities...and pay themselves a nice big salary as well. On the higher corporate levels, those Board members are normally exceedingly wealthy men who already have their money in a number of different corporate endeavours, and they move that money around. The ordinary public who have invested by buying Common Shares usually know very little about what is happening with corporate policy...mainly because they are busy with other matters, like their daily lives, their jobs, survival, the usual stuff. Accordingly, they trust the business pros in the Board to manage things for them...and they will not get upset if the value of their shares does not decline. Their input into corporate policy is normally ZILCH (nada) (nonexistent). Now and then there is an election for a new Board of Directors. If you're a small shareholder, you may get a form letter in the mail advising you that you have the privilege to vote for the Board on such and such a date, time, and place...or you can send in your vote by mail. Since you don't know personally know anyone on the Board or who might soon be on the Board, you have little if anything to go on to make a voting decision...so what happens when most people get those form letters? Nothing. They do not go to the meeting. They do not vote. If they did go, they wouldn't know who to vote FOR. They would all have to actually know each other AND know the people nominated to serve on the Board to be in any position to be empowered to have a meaningful influence on who serves on the Board and what the Board does. You cannot vote effectively when you're out of the loop and don't know how to vote or for whom. And most of them know little or nothing about it. So their influence on corporate policy, like the influence of ordinary voters on government policy is theoretically there in a potential sense, of course, but it never actually happens in reality. What happens is that a group of corporate pros and insiders come to the election of the Board, they elect the people who THEY picked ahead of time to serve on the Board, and corporate policy remains in the hands of the insiders who are at the top of the corporation and always will be...aside from infighting, of course, amongst those very insiders...which happens a lot. And that's reality, in almost every case. That is essentially what happens in our party politics and our political elections as well. They are run by the insiders, for the insiders, and the public rubber stamps whichever insiders the system puts in front of them at election time. They choose Tweedeldum, Tweedledee, or Tweedledawk...all of whom have been picked by the insiders from among the insiders. The public does NOT have the real power, because the public is too disunited and uninformed and out of the loop to be ABLE to have the real power. 50,000 or 50 millions owners of something (a corporation or a nation) CANNOT work together effectively and CONTROL what they own, if they can't communicate with each other and figure out what the hell is going on. And that's what the insiders depend on. The guys at the top. The politicians and corporate Board members. They don't fear the public, because the public has been rendered ignorant, disunited, and impotent. The only thing the insiders must fear, generally speaking, is competition from their fellow insiders. Money serves money. And it goes around in a closed loop, run by those who already HAVE the most money. This is true in politics. It is true in corporate management too....Hollywood feelgood movies about working class heroes who challenge the system notwithstanding... If I buy shares, Teribus, I am lending my money to an artificial entity called a "coroporation" on a calculated risk that I will get more money back some day. If I buy government bonds, I'm doing the same thing on a national scale. Who then has the power? Me, or the executives of the corporation or government I lent my money to? They have the power, because THEY HAVE MY money in their hands, and they will use it exactly as they see fit. They may even cause the corporation to go into receivership in order to create a tax loss against some bigger thing they're doing elsewhere. They may take the country to war. If so, I and the other shareholders are screwed. They have the power. We take the risk. They reap the main rewards. We get the crumbs that are swept off the table after they have eaten. |
|
05 Nov 07 - 08:24 PM (#2187197) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Donuel Yup, DU is no more dangerous than Radon. mmmmmmm DU with Radon sauce. yum Since it is so safe China should start making their toys with DU. Heck, who would be surprised if they do already. |
|
06 Nov 07 - 01:26 AM (#2187292) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Teribus Wrong again Donuel Radon (Naturally occuring) is more dangerous than similarly naturally occuring uranium or DU. Little Hawk the investor whether he holds 'A' or 'B' shares, 'Preferred' or 'Ordinary' shares has the ultimate sanction, he or she can withdraw their money. It is up to the individual as to how ignorant he or she wishes to remain about their investments. Personal choice LH, not part of some great plan or evil scheme. Your little lecture is riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions. "Corporations" are run by ordinary people, just like you and me, for the benefit of their shareholders, they have enough to do just doing that, without having any mega-evil plan for enslaving the masses, or to control governments, or for that matter building concentration camps to park us all in. Another fallacy dearly clung to by such as yourself and your fellow travellers is that "War is good for business" - generally it is not, quite the reverse in fact. One does not have to be a rocket scientist to recognise that a period of peace and prosperity are more conducive to making profit than a period of war, disruption and uncertainty, it does of course make a difference in what you are making. Over this side Stock Brokerage Firms tend to be used and the investor relies on that company's intimate knowledge of the markets for advice, tends to work as well thinking back on the first shares I bought £5,000 of BP, became £25,000 in 10 years. If you elect to do so and pay extra for his services the Stock Broker can assign a manager to your portfolio of stocks and shares and he "works" your investments to maximise capital growth. This tends to be more long term and you get little or no income from your investments but the total worth of your investments increases amazingly. |
|
06 Nov 07 - 07:51 PM (#2188002) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Bobert We've had this very discussion before about DU's... I remember posting, ahhhh, 5 or 6 years ago about a VA doctor who was getting too close to the truth... He was fired by the Bush people who insisited that DU's were of no danger... The reason given for the firing was that the VA hospital was overstaffed... First of all, no VA hospitals are overstaffed, quite the opposite... Secondly, the same hospital hired not one, but two, doctors to take his place... This DU arguments is typical of the Bushites... They "proclaim" but ain't interested in the truth... Might of fact, the truth is the enemy to all Bushites, the T-Bird included... No, we don't want no truth gettin' out... DU's if good for you... Better than Wonder Bread... Word on the street is that the health food stores are goin' to be sellin' DU suppliment pills come spring... Maybe I'll send a couple bottles to Bush and Cheney??? Maybe a bottle to the T-zer??? B~ |
|
07 Nov 07 - 01:03 AM (#2188116) Subject: RE: BS: Our new Constitution and new Pentagon From: Teribus What has the current President of the United States of America or his Administration got to do with the World Health Organisation Bobert? Natural uranium consists of a mixture of three radioactive isotopes which are identified by the mass numbers 238U (99.27% by mass), 235U (0.72%) and 234U (0.0054%). Depleted uranium contains about 99.8% 238U, 0.2% 235U and 0.001% 234U by mass. The main difference between DU and natural uranium is that the former contains at least three times less 235U than the latter. DU, consequently, is weakly radioactive and a radiation dose from it would be about 60% of that from purified natural uranium with the same mass. So Bobert according to science it is actually less radioactive than natural uranium that can be found just lying about on the face of the planet - So you tell us Bobert if DU is so dangerous how come we didn't all die off centuries ago, due to the amounts of natural uranium which is 1.67 times more radioactive. |