Origin: Fhir a Bhata/Fear A Bhata (Scots Gaelic)

28 Apr 99 - 06:40 AM (#73966)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: Joe Offer

That one's a bear to search for, but we're got it here, here, here in the database and finally here.
There are also references to a song called "Lonesome Boatman" - is it the same song?
-Joe Offer-

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28 Apr 99 - 06:55 AM (#73968)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: George Seto - [e-mail]

I've got a longer version in my Gaelic Lyric pages. It's in the Love song section. Gaelic Lyrics

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28 Apr 99 - 06:57 AM (#73969)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: George Seto - [e-mail]

Oh, there are conflicting stories of where the song comes from. Some say Irish, some say Scotland. Others say it's a true story as well. One report even names the man, woman and identifies the island in the Hebrides they came from. Suffice to say, it is a TRUE traditional folk song.

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28 Apr 99 - 07:07 AM (#73972)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: alison

Hi Joe,

The Lonesome Boatman is a tune........ on one of the Furey's CDs... beautifully haunting tune.

I'd still like to hear the parody someone mentioned before where they change it to being about a milkman.

slainte

alison

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28 Apr 99 - 08:18 AM (#73976)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhàta (gaelic)
From: Philippa

Scottish song also well-known in Ireland, connected with Rathlin Island which lies between Ireland and Scotland. There are some words in the Irish version which aren't familiar to modern-day Irish speakers (except through songs like this one. Bhàta has 'v' sound for bh in Scottish, 'w' sound in Irish (but maybe not historically). The lyrics Alison gave in a thread which Joe directs us to are in Scots Gaelic, as are George Seto's.

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20 Sep 99 - 07:14 PM (#115949)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: Mían

I have an Irish (well, mostly) version. i just need to figure out how to put it in here with the html codes for the fadas and returns.

I spent most of the day yesterday struggling with the trying to translate "oró" or "óró" into something more substantial that would make sense in the translation. (which is one of the reasons I ordered Dineen, Phillipa)

The word "bháta" or "báta" is a Scottish Gaelic word,"of the boat" or "boat" which according to one of my dictionaries originated from a Norwegian word for boat.

ah, them seafarin' days.

Stay tuned...

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21 Sep 99 - 07:38 AM (#116081)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: Philippa

well, don't try to translate the óró or even the 'eile' in Fear a' Bhata. Typical chorus sounds in Scottish songs, no dictionary meaning. I think you have a link to George Seto's site for Scottish Gaelic songs. As the song is also sung in Ireland, you may want to look up Aine's website.

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21 Sep 99 - 11:12 AM (#116139)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: Mían

ya, i did give up on the óró. Except that it was very close to urra, freeman, which might have made some sense. I also sort of fancied the idea of oráid, a prayer or ortha, prayer, spell.

Re: Áine's website - óró ! lovely, that! Thank you

Mían

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29 Sep 99 - 06:42 PM (#119057)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: Mían

Just got the Dinneen, "Foclóir Gaedhilge Agus Béla (Dictionary of Irish and English)"today. "bád", a boat, lists as variant spellings "báda" and "báta" with the latter being listed as an Ulster variant.

My teacher from Kerry was quite amused at the title of the song, though, as it made her think of a stern schoolteacher (translates to "man of the stick").

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29 Sep 99 - 06:46 PM (#119058)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: Mían

woops, spelled "Béarla" wrong, sorry. (Musta got too excited about figuring out the html for the diacritical marking)

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29 Sep 99 - 09:38 PM (#119145)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: George Seto - [e-mail]

Mían, in Scottish Gaelic, the Bàta = Boat, while Bata = Stick. So there is a difference there.

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30 Sep 99 - 08:46 AM (#119292)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: alison

According to the notes at the back of "Folk songs and Ballads popular in Ireland book 4" it did mean "the man with the stick" and was a song from Northern Ireland which probably wafted across from Scotland where it is translated as "the Boatman".

slainte

alison

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30 Sep 99 - 07:57 PM (#119555)
Subject: Lyr Add: FEAR A' BHÁTA
From: Mían

Fear a' Bháta

Théid mé suas ar an cnoc is airde
féach a bhfeic mé (an) fear a' bháta
An dtig tú anocht nó an dtig tú amárach?
Nó mura dtig tú idir is trua atá mé.

curfá

A fhir a' bháta 's na horó eile
A fhir a' bháta 's na horó eile
A fhir a' bháta 's na horó eile
mo shoraidh slán leat gach áit a dté tú

Tá mo chroí-se briste brúite
Is tric na deora (a rith) ó mo shúile
An dtig tú inniú nó an mbeidh mé ag dúil leat?
Nó an druid mé an doras le osna thuirseach?

curfá

Gheall mo leannán domh gúna den tsíoda
Gheall é sin agus breacán riabhach,
Fáinne óir anns an (a) bhfeicfinn íomhá
Ach is eagal liom go ndearn(a) sé dearmad

curfá

Tá mo chroí-se ag dul in airde
chan don fidléir, chan don cláirseoir
Ach do stiúrthóir an bháta;
Is mura dtig tú abhaile is trua atá mé.

curfá

Notes: This song appears on the album "Blackbirds and Thrushes" by Niamh Parsons. Lyrics are available on the CD cover and also a little story about the song/lyrics. It is also one of the offerings in the little songbook "Ceolta Gael" (I forgot to note if it is Volume 1 or Volume 2), though the version in that book differs in the last verse(s).

(I also saw a little blurb about it appearing in 18-something or other on one of the Library of Congress screens but now I cannot duplicate how I found it in the first place...)

Would "anns an" be a version of "annsan" ("a gold ring in which I would see my image")?

final note: hope the html works!

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30 Sep 99 - 08:02 PM (#119558)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: Mían

Oh, the Blackbirds and Thrushes version of the chorus has "céad míle fáilte gach áit a dté tú" instead of "mo shoraidh slán leat gach áit a dté tú".

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30 Sep 99 - 11:57 PM (#119630)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: George Seto - [e-mail]

The Scottish Gaelic tradition has it, that "The Boatman", was written by Jane Finlayson, of Tong, Isle of Lewis, about Donald MacRae of Uig. The song is from the the latter part of the 18th century. She later married him.

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01 Oct 99 - 11:21 AM (#119771)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: Mían

I really like how the song appears multi-traditioned - it not only has Irish & Scottish ties but smacks of the North Men as well.

woops, puns, sorry

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01 Feb 01 - 11:36 AM (#387488)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: Noreen

I've got this wonderful song sqirrelling in my head and would love to sing it, but would feel happier singing the verses in English, keeping the original chorus.

Can anyone tell me if the English version in the DT FEAR A'BHATA is an accurate translation, verse for verse? Some of the language seems a bit 'flowery'. Is there another singable translation anywhere? (I've looked at the links given above, and Joe's two final links no longer lead anywhere.)

Many thanks in advance,

Noreen

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01 Feb 01 - 04:34 PM (#387740)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: George Seto - [e-mail]

It is reasonable for a translation, and it seems singable, which is difficult to do in a straight translation.

The Gaelic is "flowery" and full of imagery. You can probably use it.

HOWEVER, if you would, please pas out the information that it was written by Jane Finlayson of Tong, Isle of Lewis,in the late 18th century. Sometime after she wrote the song, she did marry her young fisherman, a Donald MacRae of Uig.

Now, let's see.

1st verse for example

Often I am looking from high on the hill
The sight left me, man of the boat
Will you come today, or will you come tomorrow
And will you come anyway, that sorrow is on me.

So, it's reasonable, the translation in the DT.

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01 Feb 01 - 07:58 PM (#387917)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: Cobble

Try the cd's from Capercaille, and yes it is Scottish from the Western Isles.

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01 Feb 01 - 08:33 PM (#387940)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: George Seto - [e-mail]

Noreen, the reason those last two links of Joe's don't work is the nature of the mudcat database. Links are created to it based on the name of the database at the time.

Every time a new one comes along, the name changes. It's unfortunate, but it is too bad the database name couldn't stay permanently.

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02 Feb 01 - 06:30 AM (#388116)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: Noreen

Thanks very much, George, for the help and for the extra information. I will indeed include Jane Finlayson in my intro if I ever feel able to do the song justice. I love the imagery, but I need to work at the words- it was the verse with 'droop and languish... my bosom's anguish' which seemed a bit much.

I'll PM Joe Offer to ask for Jane's details to be mentioned in the DT entry with the English translation.

Thanks again.

Noreen

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02 Feb 01 - 11:30 AM (#388278)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: George Seto - [e-mail]

I'll have a look at that for you, Noreen and see what I can come up with.

If it's not as good, I probably won't post. I will work out a more specific translation of the tune at my site.

Fear a' Bhàta

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02 Feb 01 - 01:08 PM (#388409)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: Noreen

Thanks, George, you are very kind.

Noreen

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02 Feb 01 - 05:48 PM (#388706)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: GUEST,[e-mail]

Regarding yur request for Fear [Fhir] a Bhata you will find a gaelic version in kenneth Peacock's Songs of the Newfoundland Outports vol. 3 1965 pgs 786-87. The version provided is in Gaelic. Best of luck A Guigne

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05 Jun 01 - 06:24 PM (#477105)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: GUEST,Philippa

I don't think the information given in Alison's book (see 30 Sept 99) is correct; I would go with Mian and George (Sept 29){ bàta is boat in Scottish and Rathlin Island Gaelic)
For a while now I am only getting a title page at Áine's site (which I gave a link to above) and can't access individual songs.

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05 Jun 01 - 06:27 PM (#477110)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: GUEST,Philippa

three verses in Rathlin Gaelic (song as sung in Ireland)at http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=5494#74039

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05 Jun 01 - 06:41 PM (#477127)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: Áine

I've fixed the link to the song on my page now, Philippa. Here it is: Fear an Bháta

-- Áine

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06 Jun 01 - 03:02 PM (#477744)
Subject: RE: Lyric request: Fear a Bhata (gaelic)
From: GUEST,Eileen Knowles

Many thanks to all of you for replying so quickly; I am overwhelmed by the response and haven't had a chance yet to read through the entire printout. Go raibh mile maith agaibh go leir! It's about time the lovely old songs got an airing again, and I plan to do just that at our local folk club in Ripon, North Yorkshire. If any of you are local, this is held at the Blackamoor pub in a stone-built back room, Sunday nights. The acoustics are absolutely unbelievable. Thanks again, folks and if I can help anyone with any lyrics, I'll be only too pleased to do so. Best regards, Eileen.

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06 Aug 09 - 08:24 PM (#2695112)
Subject: Lyr Add: FHIR A BHATA (Scots Gaelic, 1804)
From: Jim Dixon

From Cochruinneacha taoghta de shaothair nam bard gaëleach by Alexander Stewart and Donald Stewart (Dunedin: Clodh-bhuailt le T. Stiuart, 1804), page 339:

ORAN gaoil do Mharaich, le Maighdean araid.

LUINNEAG.

[CHORUS:] Fhir a bhata na horo eile,
Fhir a bhata na horo eile,
Fhir a bhata na horo eile,
'S e mi rùn chaich thug dom' ghradh mo threigeadh.

1. 'S tric mi sealtuinn o'n chnoc a's airde,
D'fheuch am faic mi fear a bhata,
An tig thu'n diugh, na'n tig thu maireach,
'S mar tig thu idir, gur truagh ata mi.

2. Tha mo chridhe-sa briste, bruite,
'S tric na deoir ag ruidh o'm shuilean,
An tig thu nochd na'm bi mo dhuil riut,
Na'n duin mi'n dorus le osnadh thùrsach,

3. 'S tric mi foineachd de luchd nam bata,
Am fac iad thu na'm bheil thu sabhailt,
'S ann tha gach aon diu rium ag raite,
Gur gorach mi mo thug mi gradh dhuit.

4. Gheall mo leannan domh gùn dhe'n t-sioda,
Gheall e sud agus breachdan riamhach,
Faine oir anns am faicinn iomhagh,
Ach 's eagal leam gu'n dean e di-chuimhne.

5. Cha'n eil baile beag sam bi thu,
Nach tamh thu greis ann a chuir do sgios diot,
Bheir thu lamh air do leabhar riamhach,
Ghabhail dhuanag, 's a bhuaireadh nianag.

6. Ge do thuirt iad gu'n robh thu eatrom,
Cha do lughadhaich sud mo ghaol ort,
Bithidh tu m'aisling anns an oiche,
A's ann sa mhadain bithidh mi ga d'fhoineachd.

7. Thug mi gaol duit 's cha'n fhaod mi aicheadh.
Cha ghaol bliadhna, 's cha ghaol raidhe,
Ach gad a thoiseach 'n'air bha mi m' phaisdean,
'S nach searg a chaoidh gus an claoidh am bàs mi.

8. Tha mo chairdean gu tric ag innseadh,
Gu'm feum mi taogas a leig air di-chuimhne,
Ach tha'n comhairle dhomh co diamhain,
'S a tilleadh mara, a's i toirt lionaidh.

9. Tha mo chriosan air dol an airde,
Cha'n ann o fhidhlair, na o chlarsair,
Ach o stiuireadair a bhata,
'S mur tig thu dhathigh, struagh mar tha mi.

10. Bithidh mi tuille tùrsach, dèurach,
Mar Eala bhan, 's i 'n deigh a reubadh,
Guileag bàis aic air lochan feurach,
A's each uile an deigh-sa treigeadh.

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23 Aug 20 - 05:44 PM (#4069377)
Subject: RE: Origin: Fhir a Bhata (Scots Gaelic)
From: Felipa

The song is attributed to Sìne NicFhionnlaigh from Tong, Isle of Lewis, in the late 18th century. Despite the desperation expressed in the song, it appears that she did marry fisherman Dòmhnall MacRath from Uig a while afterwards. Verse 9 in the previous message infers that Sìne was pregnant when she composed the song, "my belt is getting higher, Not from a fiddler or a harpist, but from the helmsman of a boat,If you don't come home (correct spelling dhachaigh) it will be a pity for me https://www.bbc.co.uk/alba/oran/people/sine_nicfhionnlaigh/

learn a shorter version of the song: https://learngaelic.scot/littlebylittle/songs/bata/index.jsp

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23 Aug 20 - 05:51 PM (#4069378)
Subject: RE: Origin: Fhir a Bhata (Scots Gaelic)
From: Felipa

I see George Seto gave the same information as I did re attribution, with an English version of the author's name, in this discussion 19 years ago.

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24 Aug 20 - 11:52 AM (#4069451)
Subject: RE: Origin: Fhir a Bhata (Scots Gaelic)
From: Jack Campin

Anne Lorne Gillies's "Songs of Gaelic Scotland" gives the same info, but adds the earliest source she knew of: Logan's "The Scottish Gael", 1876. Surprising that a song so good could stay unrecorded for 100 years.

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22 Oct 20 - 04:51 AM (#4076417)
Subject: RE: Origin: Fhir a Bhata/Fear A Bhata (Scots Gaelic)
From: GUEST,Rory

verse 9 from the 1804 text

Tha mo chriosan air dol an airde,
Cha'n ann o fhidhlair, na o chlarsair,
Ach o stiuireadair a bhata,
'S mur tig thu dhathigh, struagh mar tha mi.

Chriosan = belt


On another thread this verse is

Tá mo chroí-se ag dul in airde
chan don fidléir, chan don cláirseoir
Ach do stiúrthóir an bháta;
Is mura dtig tú abhaile is trua atá mé

chroí-se = heart

Could the first line of this verse refer to the heart and not the belt (inferring pregnancy).

I am no expert on Gaelic dialects

.

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22 Oct 20 - 05:08 AM (#4076418)
Subject: RE: Origin: Fhir a Bhata/Fear A Bhata (Scots Gaelic)
From: GUEST,Rory

Tá mo chroí-se ag dul in airde
chan don fidléir, chan don cláirseoir
Ach do stiúrthóir an bháta;
Is mura dtig tú abhaile is trua atá mé

My heart is rising
Not for the fiddler, nor for the harpist
But for the helmsman of the boat;
If you don't come home it will be sorrowful for me

.

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22 Oct 20 - 08:02 AM (#4076432)
Subject: RE: Origin: Fhir a Bhata/Fear A Bhata (Scots Gaelic)
From: Georgiansilver

I really enjoyed this version of the song back in 1970s. Sung by Paddy Bell and the Corries.    https://youtu.be/BNmTbw2hwVg

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22 Oct 20 - 04:31 PM (#4076471)
Subject: RE: Origin: Fhir a Bhata/Fear A Bhata (Scots Gaelic)
From: Felipa

Rory, The verse you give is in Irish Gaelic, and definitely says My heart is rising (not "my belt") not for the fiddler ... but for the helmsman of the boat ...

but the Scots Gaelic verse also uses a different preposition, ...not from the fiddler or the harpist but from the helmsman of the boat...
And in Scots Gaelic "my heart" is spelled "mo chridhe"
In Irish "crios" (belt, mo chrios = my belt) and "croí" (emphatic, croí-se; my heart, mo chroí-se) look very similar although they are pronounced quite differently.

Scottish Gaelic sound files for cridhe vs
crios

The Scottish version is the older of the two (though I think there are some verses or lines which are shared with other songs which may have been of Irish origin). And perhaps some Scottish singers would also have sung a different version of verse 9 using the words "mo chridhe".

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