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18 Nov 07 - 12:20 PM (#2196795) Subject: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: GUEST,beardedbruce Japan defends whaling 'tradition' Story Highlights Pro-whaling Japanese think anti-whaling movement is discriminatory, hypocritical 1986 international moratorium on commercial whaling applies to high seas Small-time whalers commercially hunt whales not regulated internationally Anti-whaling activists believe killing whales an environmental and moral crime WADA, Japan (AP) -- A whale's bleeding carcass bobbed in the surf, a steel harpoon jutting from its side. Then butchers at this Japanese fishing village went to work, turning a motorized winch to haul the beast ashore. The 1986 international moratorium on commercial whaling applies only to high seas. On the flensing floor, the men blessed it with rice wine -- then hacked through blubber and sinew with long-handled knives, slicing vermilion flesh from the massive spine. Blood gushed from the 30-foot Baird's beaked whale like water from a hydrant. Finally, the meat was chopped into brick-sized blocks, weighed and priced for townsfolk who lined up for their purchases. Restaurateurs drove away with plastic drums of whale. For the world's anti-whaling activists, it's an atrocity that must be stopped. But the men who harpoon, flense and sell these whales at four small-scale coastal hunting communities have another word for it: tradition. "Coastal people have been eating whale for 400 years and we have a right to decide what we eat," declared Yoshinori Shoji, head of the Gaibo Hogei whaling company, based in Wada, a two-hour drive east of Tokyo. These days, that tradition is much harder to maintain. Even though the 1986 international moratorium on commercial whaling applies more to the high seas than to Japanese coastal outfits, it has severely cut supply, driving prices higher and speeding the meat's plunge in popularity. The ban also restricts the types of smaller whales that can be hunted, such as a former favorite of the coastal operations -- the minke. Small-time whalers now commercially hunt only whales that are not regulated internationally. Japan's coastal whalers also suffer from a global PR problem. Amid an active anti-whaling movement, many people in Europe, the United States, Australia and New Zealand consider killing whales an environmental and moral crime, and grisly scenes such as the ones in Wada reinforce the image of whaling as barbaric. The campaign touches a nationalist chord among Japanese, who feel it's discriminatory and hypocritical, given that Japanese whaling only took off after World War II because U.S. occupation authorities encouraged it as a source of food. "They just completely reject people whose thinking isn't the same as theirs," says the industry's point man in the southern whaling town of Taiji, Yoji Kita. "In their `global standard,' there are a lot of double standards." When people here speak of tradition, they mean family-owned company boats targeting small game just 20 miles from the shore, rather than the Japanese factory fleets, which range as far afield as the Antarctic and pull in a total of more than 1,000 whales per year. This year, coastal whalers operating out of four main ports are set to take a total of 66 Baird's beaked whales, 72 pilot whales -- which look like dolphins -- and 20 Risso dolphins. Minke whales, of which they used to take 300 a year, have been banned from the hunt by the International Whaling Commission since the 1980s, though Japan takes many minke whales -- and eats the meat -- as part of an IWC-allowed scientific whaling program. The whaling companies, however, say the moratorium is sinking their business. Japan's eight coastal whaling companies now use only five of their nine whaling boats for coastal operations. Populations in whaling towns have dropped, and village administrators complain about shrinking tax bases. "Everyone here is in the red," Shoji said as his men sliced fat from the cubes of meat and dumped buckets of innards into a huge vat for processing into fertilizer. The complaint gets little international sympathy. A Japanese proposal to win "community whaling" status that would have allowed limited minke whale hunts failed at an IWC meeting in May. Critics argue that Japan's coastal operations are strictly commercial, using modern industrial methods such as mechanized harpoon guns, while community hunts are conducted by aboriginal people as ceremonies or to harvest a vital food source. "Long ago, they used their own boats and caught whales with nets. But since the early 1900s, they've been using methods imported from Norway," said Junichi Sato of Greenpeace Japan. "So it's not at all as if they were preserving a tradition." Japan's industrial whaling may be 20th century, but its roots are old. Organized whaling began in the early 1600s in Taiji, a town about 300 miles southwest of Tokyo, whose phone book is full of names rooted in whaling: Seko -- harpooner; Ryono -- whaling boat sailor. Shrines to the animals, including one where feudal hunters brought fetuses found in pregnant whales, dot the town. Villagers stage a whale festival on the bluff where spotters in the 17th century watched for approaching whales. "Whaling is not just an occupation for them -- it's pride, it's history," said Hayato Sakurai, curator of the Taiji Whale Museum, which was established in 1969 and features an enormous replica of the skeleton of a blue whale. The town's hunts of old involved hundreds of daredevil hunters on wooden boats who would surround the whale, spear it and drag it to shore. But those ways vanished when a typhoon wiped out Taiji's fleet in 1878. By around 1900, whaling was based on modern steam ships and grenade harpoons. Today Taiji is feeling the pressure, and Western visitors to City Hall and the wharves draw looks of suspicion that they have come to smear the town. Coastal whalers argue that while they hunt whales as food and fertilizer, the Western whalers of old were only after them for their oil and discarded the rest. Also playing into the argument are race, the legacy of the war and a sense of Japan being perennial odd man out in global affairs dominated by the United States and Europe. "It looks like we're part of the club, but then something happens, and they point at us and say, `You're the country that started the war!"' said Kita. "I feel the whaling issue is a racial discrimination issue." This touchiness is heightened by the Taiji area's autumn and winter dolphin hunt, when boat crews surround schools of the animals and slash them to death. The kills are often filmed by animal rights groups and broadcast worldwide. Towns like Wada and Taiji have responded with campaigns to teach pride in the whaling tradition in local schools, where whale meat often features on the lunch menu, despite evidence that whale and dolphin meat is contaminated with mercury. Wada, for instance, hosts school groups to witness whale flensings, though the copious blood and stench occasionally sickens a student. The kids then gather at a nearby cafeteria for a whale meat breakfast. "We want them to know about the things that are done in the town where they were raised," explained Tomokazu Shoji, a teacher accompanying his 5th graders to flensing. Meanwhile, old-time whalers mourn the passing of a culture. Tameo Ryono, 70, worked on whaling ships in the Antarctic and other seas for some 40 years. The son and grandson of whalers, he grew up in Taiji watching his elders harpoon the beasts. The thick meat was a common meal on the Ryono dinner table. "This is how we provided for our families for generations," he said, opening a box of black and white photographs of old hunting ships. "Since the moratorium, kids even in this town don't have many chances to see whales," he said. "They don't dream of being whalers anymore." |
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18 Nov 07 - 05:23 PM (#2197030) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: Liz the Squeak Burning at the stake was considered the traditional way to dispose of heretics and witches. Some traditions should be left to fade, for the good of all peoples. LTS |
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18 Nov 07 - 06:06 PM (#2197052) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: McGrath of Harlow The point about traditions isn't that they should be accepted as inviolable, but that they need to be recognised, more especially by people trying to change them. Sometimes exceedingly unpleasant or downright murderous traditions have been able to change in ways that get rid of those aspects, so that they become harmless and even healthy. Rituals that at one time involved human sacrifice changed into ritual dances, for example. Any number of our curent traditions can arguably be linked to stuff like that. We don't burn people at the stake any more, true - but we do have bonfires and put "guys" on them. |
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18 Nov 07 - 06:10 PM (#2197055) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: Rapparee Hunt the whales as the Arctic and other "aboriginal" peoples do -- NON-commercially, shared equally by all, without exploding harpoons and all the rest -- fine. But if you take it as described and then sell the products -- no, I don't think so. As for blessing with rice wine and so on, well, the Inquisition blessed the instruments of torture. I have no quarrel with teaching children that food does not magically appear, that it comes with work and blood. But that lesson can be taught in other ways. |
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18 Nov 07 - 07:03 PM (#2197083) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: Richard Bridge A bit like fox hunting, what? Since the human genotype is not endangered (or at least most variants of it are not) it is more important to retain the biodiversity of whales than to pander to the "tradition" of killing whales. Kill too many and they won't be there at all. About as sympathetic an idea as the "tradition" of female genital mutilation. Or binding women's feet. Or coal fires. |
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18 Nov 07 - 07:18 PM (#2197098) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: McGrath of Harlow Most "variants of the human genotype" may well actually be endangered. More especially the less common ones. Most variants of what one might call "the human cultural genotype" are definitely endangered. The point about traditions isn't whether they are sympathetic or not, it's being aware that they shape attitudes and actions, and that this needs to be taken into account, or they are likely come up behind you and clobber you when you aren't expecting it. The best way to deal with this may be to find ways of diverting and changing the tradition that has been associated with stuff you are trying to get rid of. For example, just because songs come out of a foxhunting culture is no reason to for people who are against fox-hunting to avoid singing them. In fact I think there is a good case for singing them all the more. |
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18 Nov 07 - 08:45 PM (#2197141) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: Peace Read Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery". Story--and good site for other literature--here. |
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19 Nov 07 - 03:03 AM (#2197243) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: Big Al Whittle 'For example, just because songs come out of a foxhunting culture is no reason to for people who are against fox-hunting to avoid singing them. In fact I think there is a good case for singing them all the more.' An interesting point. There was a thread a while back - a parent of a kid at an American school objected because the school choir were planning to sing 'Pick a Bale of Cotton'. Can we still sing songs and claim to reject the cultural values of the society that produced these songs? As I remember the school choir were forced to drop the song. I suppose it depends on how morally reprehensible you find the culture and how thoroughly you feel you must reject it. The Kipling thread is related to this in a way. I think in the 1960's - when it was the fifty years since the Ist world war, and there were still a lot of veterans around telling it as it was - really it was the first time they had been encouraged to do just that - and there was that land mark TV series cataloguing the horrors of the trenches - well it changed a lot of peoples attitudes. Suddenly I think there was a sort of revulsion at the English patriot poets of the 1890's - all that stuff that Kipling and the bloke who wrote Drakes Drum and that sort of thing stood for. I think the recent play asking for compassion for the man has made some of us catch our breath a bit. We remember the testimony of the poor sods Kipling and his ilk, had conned into taking the kings Shilling. Also at that time, the Dubliners (the 1960's) were emerging with songs like The Kerry Recruit (about the Crimean War). Patriotism of the Kipling kind seemed disreputable and rather dishonest. Perhpas some generations are just too close to the action to view the songs dispassionately as good songs. |
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19 Nov 07 - 03:22 AM (#2197251) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: Richard Bridge I think, WLD, if we want to avoid dissension, that it might be well to stay off Ireland |
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19 Nov 07 - 04:57 AM (#2197283) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: GUEST Stay off Oirland? C'mon, c'mon, oi'll foight onny TREE of yez! I think Japan, and any other society with a whaling tradition, should be allowed to carry on that tradition, in the traditional manner- in open rowing boats or kayaks with hand thrown non- explosive harpoons. |
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19 Nov 07 - 05:06 AM (#2197289) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: Liz the Squeak A bit like fox hunting, what? Except that fox hunting was never about catching food. There are no by-products achieved from the death of a fox other than a grotesque mask to put on the wall. LTS |
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19 Nov 07 - 07:32 AM (#2197346) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: greg stephens Well, LTS, you may agree or you may not, but a main rationale of fox hunting has always been to reduce the depredations of foxes on the production of chicken, eggs and ducks and so on.The abolition of hunting was merely carried out so that this control could be done with cyanide, so much nicer of course. Disentangling the practical functions of hunting from its fun(?)/social/cultural aspects has always been complex. |
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19 Nov 07 - 07:41 AM (#2197361) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: GUEST,PMB Fox hunting was always primarily for fun, not pest control. That's why they planted the many fox coverts dotted around the English (and Irish) countryside. |
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19 Nov 07 - 08:06 AM (#2197381) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: greg stephens PMB: your source for that? Written contemporary records, or a modern guess? People's motivation for their actions always seems to me a difficult one to assess, particularly as it is a subject most people might not always be totally honest about, or even aware of.And how many fox hunters, or wood planters, actually recorded their opinions on their motivation, anyway? My impression is that coverts were generally for game preservation, not for foxes, but that is not based on any particular evidence. Could you enlighten us? |
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19 Nov 07 - 08:38 AM (#2197404) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: Emma B "Covert film shows hunt officials systematically making use of a network of specially constructed artificial earths in a secretive process designed to source, locate, chase and kill foxes for sport. The damning findings - unveiled today in a Video News Release (VNR) and report, Unearthed - 'canned' fox hunting in the heart of England - reveal the hunting community's blatant disregard for guidelines laid down by its own regulatory body, the Masters of Fox Hounds Association, which state that foxes must only be hunted in their "wild and natural state". The results of this four month long investigation are expected to prove terminally damaging to the hunt in question and particularly embarrassing for its high profile supporters......... "This damning evidence provides a rare glimpse into the ugly mechanics of a typical days hunting with a typical lowland fox hunt. This hunt has been shown to rely on artificial means, including their own variation of 'canned' hunting, to help ensure a good day's sport. This has nothing to do with pest control or conservation. "If a fox is a pest, why build homes for them, encouraging them by laying on food and water? If you want to conserve the fox, why hunt it? "The League Against Cruel Sports has documented evidence of artificial earths within the territories of many fox hunts throughout England and Wales, and has established that animal carcasses have frequently been dumped near to such sites in order to attract foxes to the area." posted April 2004 by the League Against Cruel Sports |
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20 Nov 07 - 07:14 PM (#2198791) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: McGrath of Harlow it might be well to stay off Ireland Always good advice, which Ireland's neighbours would have done well to heed over the centuries... ....................... If I was a fox I think I'd be quite pleased to have an artificial earth provided, even if it was provided by hunters. I can't really believe that pest control is a central motive for hunting. Nor for that matter do I see blood lust as too significant. My assumption is that historically the important thing has been that it has underpinned a whole range of social activities which have been important in various ways for many country people. I would hope that in time drag hunts will largely fill the gap - though at present there is a tendency for these to be used as a way of evading the law and continuing to hunt foxes. Cultures change, and good things can come out of bad. If we tried to purge our culture of all the thing with dodgy pasts we'd be much poorer. There's the analogy weelittledruummer pointed us to about the Great War. |
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21 Nov 07 - 09:40 AM (#2199176) Subject: RE: BS: Support cultural traditions?? From: Grab Kipling as a pro-war poet? Not what I've read. 'It's "Tommy this", and "Tommy that", and "Tommy walk behind" But it's "Please to stand in front sir" when the troop-ship's on the wind...' Now as an apologist for imperialism, that's a different matter. But his verse is (as the title says) from the barrackroom, not from the "glorious victory" officers' view. For that matter, "Pick a bale of cotton" might as well be seen as celebrating the slaves' triumph over adversity. As far as whaling goes, they need to face the fact that like Cornwall and Grimsby in the UK, and like the Grand Banks in Newfoundland, they (and others) have been taking more than Nature can replace. Graham. |