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23 Nov 07 - 08:18 PM (#2201029) Subject: BS: Healtrh Insurance RANT!!!!! From: SINSULL It costs me $300 per month. Then I have a $5000 deductible. Last month I had a colonoscopy - 1 day of starvation, one of unspeakable bathroom indignities and then the dubious pleasure of being probed and bloated until I could have exploded. On Wednesday I got the news that my insurance would not cover the procedure because it was routine - $673. Today I got the news that they also would not cover the physician's services (services???? I got a cookie and cranberry juice!). The total bill is ...drum roll please...$1300. AND I STILL HAVE NOT MET MY DEDUCTIBLE!!!!!!!!! #$@%!((*^%!$@#^#()!_w> AAAARGHHHHHH! Wouldn't you think they would be glad to pay for prevetative maintenance? |
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23 Nov 07 - 08:42 PM (#2201042) Subject: RE: BS: Healtrh Insurance RANT!!!!! From: catspaw49 And THIS is why we need National Health Covewrage......................... Sorry Mary. We have really tremendous insurance through Karen's hospital but with the things we've had going on over the years, not to mention this one, I know how much we have paid. I can't imagine what we would have owed with many other coverages or NO insurance........That same procedure would have cost us $110.00 including docs, hospital, labs, etc. The insurance was billed $89,000.00 and change for the defibrillator implant. We paid $380.00. Services for Michael have been less well covered but we are still "getting off light" by comparison. His three Crisis interventions for a total of 27 days ran about $65,000.00 and we have about 10% of that billed to us, but that's damn good!!! YTD we have $9700+ in pharmaceuticals but have only paid $410.00. I have no idea how we could do it with any less than the coverage we are fortunate to have. At either of our other previous jobs and insurances we would have filed bankruptcy during the past 10 years at some point or another. This country needs to do something on universal health care. when you read our billings its obvious just how inflated things are. Look at our prescription figures alone. And then there's that $89,000. defibrillator which was paid but only to the tune of $48,000......Everybody was happy. What does that tell you? Sorry again Sins.....But(t) remember how much fun you had!!! Spaw |
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23 Nov 07 - 09:01 PM (#2201052) Subject: RE: BS: Healtrh Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Bobert I've seen it from both sides... When my late wife, Judy, was working for Xerox, we had great health insurance and it was very reasonable... Like our contribution was less than $200 a month and the deductible was low... Now we are paying close to $1000 a month for just the P-Vine and me and both of us are healthy... Our deductible is $1000 each and our copays are almost as much as seeing a doctor witout insurance... Plus, if either of us ever need the insurance, the company can drop us??? Now that ougtta be criminal... The current system is so terribluy screwed up... Probably the most screwed up of any developed nation in the world... Probably??? No, it definately is the most screwed up, corporate protecting, system of them all... It make me sick just thinking about it... I mean, 1/4th of our income now goes to pay an insurance company for absolutrley nothing other than knowing that if we get sick they can drop us... Like I said, that ought to be criminal... B~ |
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23 Nov 07 - 11:40 PM (#2201114) Subject: RE: BS: Healtrh Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Barry Finn Hi Mary We must be renting the same boat. Get out, I'm already sinking & it's way over my head. I've got 2 insurers, 1 from my wife Blue Cross/Blue Shield plus medicade + part D. Every tme anyone in the house et seen I call 1st & still they send me either a statement that this they don't cover of enied for lack of info (we sent a questionaire the the Doc & didn't get it back). I've got 2 shoe boxes of collection agency bills asking me for money that I don't have & that the insurers won't pay even though they gladly charge me every month & they can't cover a cough or a kidney, useless son's of bitches! National Health is the only way!!!!!!!!! Barry |
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23 Nov 07 - 11:50 PM (#2201117) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: wysiwyg Don't worry about that making that deductible, SINS. As soon as you get there, it will be time to start the next year's coverage and deductible buildup, or change plans and start over that way. ~S~ |
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24 Nov 07 - 12:31 AM (#2201127) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Janie What a travesty. The whole system of financing health care is a house of cards. |
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24 Nov 07 - 12:33 AM (#2201129) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: katlaughing Mary, at least not having met the deductible means you've been in relative good health, right?:-) We got the bill for the ER for me the other day: $3,770 and some change. Our deductible has now been met. :-< Since our deductibles were met so early in the previous 3-4 years, I figure we did pretty good this past year at staying healthier.:-) HOWEVER, Rog has said he cannot even think of early retirement, next year, because we would lose his insurance. His company really tries to keep the costs down. We choose from three plans AND, this coming year, they kept the premiums to the exact same as this year. They also cover part of the employee's part, so we pay about $180 out of each bi-weekly check for coverage. If Rog didn't smoke it would be a tad cheaper. We get dental and eye exams with that, because we pay a bit more. We lucked out. Because of his employment with them, I got good care and over $120,000 spend for my heart surgery, etc. HOWEVER, WE DO NEED NATIONAL HEALTH CARE! He shouldn't have to work longer than he wants to just to keep insurance; doctors shouldn't refuse to accept patients unless they have insurance, nor should hospitals. I went to the ER at 930 on a Friday morning. I was there until after 4p. Rog was with me the whole time.Had loads of meds, was coughing constantly, tired from no sleep, etc., etc. Just as they were wheeling me to the door to go home, a woman stepped out of a little glassed in hole in the wall, right by the door and asked if I could come in her room for a moment. She had a clipboard and said something to me about having asked my husband and him saying she'd have to talk to me. Fair enough, I knew it was probably about payments as I handle all of that. She had a hard time getting the wheelchair into her room which was shaped like a slice of pie. Just as she did, the O2 guy got there as i was not to go home without some in the car. They had no space where he and I could go over all of HIS forms, so she leant us her room. He was really nice, finally said to hell with the forms, got the O2 switched to the one I'd take home and left. In came the dragon lady. She says, "Now, while the doctors have been taking care of you all day, I've been on the phone all day working with your insurance company to see what they cover." THEN she started going over what we'd paid so far in deductibles, co-pays, etc. By now I thought I was in some surreal Woody Allen movie and was looking around for my brother, who by then had come to work there, and Rog to take me home. She kept rattling on then got my attention by finishing up with "so the hospital would like a $200 deposit at this time." I wish I could've seen the reaction on my face. I was shocked, then laughed. I looked at her and said, "I've been in bed for weeks, been here all day, have pneumonia, and need to get home and you're asking me for a deposit? I haven't balanced the checkbook in over two weeks and don't even have it with me right now and I am NOT using a credit card, which I don't have with me, either! Presumably you will send me a bill?" (I didn't have the energy or strength to get into how good our insurance is and how I was sure they'd take care of most of it! Or, how we just dodged the doc thinking i needed to stay at least overnight!) "Oh, yes," she replied. "Good, then I will set up payments when I get it. I already make payments so can just add it on to that agreement." I guess I got the message across, even though she muttered a few more times about a deposit, even dropping it to $50, because she finally let me out. My brother told me a couple of weeks later she was let go as her "technique" just didn't mesh with the hospital's mission to be compassionate, etc. (It has a good rep. for being good to work with. I pay them $50 per month on a $13,000 debt from the first time I went in before we had insurance.) It was an unreal end to a very weird day! Sorry for going on. I knew I had to tell the story, just hadn't found a spot for it 'til now. luvyakat |
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24 Nov 07 - 12:49 AM (#2201133) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Barry Finn After the deductable's met then there's a cap that's reached that'll pay for pescriptions. When that caps been reached there what's called the "donut hole". That an amount that you pay out of pocket until another cap's been reached before the insurance begins to pay 80% again. That donut hole can go anywhere from a couple grand to a black hole, bastards. Barry |
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24 Nov 07 - 01:18 AM (#2201140) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: katlaughing Oh, and I forgot, I also waved several prescriptions at her telling her that I had no idea how much THEY would cost us before the end of the day! (As it turned out, $89, that day, at least a couple of hundred since. And I know that's minuscule compared to other folks like you, Barry. Watch your PMs) |
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24 Nov 07 - 01:49 AM (#2201145) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Janie It is a sad reality that, no matter how good your insurance is, if you have really major medical problems, you are going to end up in debt up to your eyeballs. |
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24 Nov 07 - 01:56 AM (#2201147) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Naemanson Health insurance is a joke. Remember, the insurance companies are in the business of making money. They funnel money to the politicians to make sure a good system doesn't get implemented. And everyone is happy, at least, those in the money making cycle are happy. The rest of us have to suck hind teat. Way back in 1980 we got dropped from a group plan from Met (Get Met, it pays... the stock holders!) and ended up paying for our firstborn out of pocket. Many years of being slung over a barrel and I'm still dealing with the different ways they have of either NOT covering us, or worse, taking so long to actually do something that we might as well not bother seeking help. For the torn cartilage in my right wrist it took about 8 months from first "ouch!" to finally getting the surgery I needed. Remember the Republicans scaring people by pointing out how long it takes to get help under the existing national plans? Wakana needs help too. It will take so long and cost so much that she will wait until next summer and have it done in Japan. Fortunately she can wait. Many can't. I have problems with my feet and knees. I have had these problems for at least 23 years. It's getting worse. No doctor can do anything. I believe they could but the insurance won't cover the tests and procedures I need. So I live in pain. Rant over... for now. Sorry to hear about your problems, Mary. Life under a capitalist system can suck sometimes. By the way, back in 2005 when I first went to a doctor for knee pain in my left knee I had to see the family doctor and he sen me to see a specialist. The specialists office set me up with an appointment three weeks later. Wakana was shocked. As she said, "But you hurt NOW!" You see, in Japan, a country with a national health system, if you need help you get it then and there. A friend of ours, an American, was studying in Japan. He had a bicycle accident. In one evening he saw a generalist, two specialists, had treatment, and was sent home with appointments to return the following week for follow up. He had no insurance. Total out of pocket cost? About $200. I had a dental problem past time I was there. I went to a dentist who took x-rays, examined my teeth, ground down a new filling that the American dentist had left too high, and charged me $21 for the visit. American health system? It's a joke! |
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24 Nov 07 - 04:15 AM (#2201161) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Rasener Maybe they introduce a scheme where you either pay the bills or get their free Top Yourself help. Sounds like a right old scam over there. |
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24 Nov 07 - 04:45 AM (#2201168) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Richard Bridge The trouble is that this is the inevitable corollary of capitalism, and it is also why "New Labour" is gradually privatising the NHS. To the capitalist we have no value save our economic value to them. Aux barricades! |
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24 Nov 07 - 05:00 AM (#2201173) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Leadfingers Despite all its faults , our NHS still takes some beating ! I have a VERY painful pulled muscle in my side ! Went to to the doc (At 11am given an appointment for 4.20 pm ) Prescription for pain killers filled at Chemists at 5pm , and home ! And it cost me NOTHING ! |
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24 Nov 07 - 05:49 AM (#2201191) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: catspaw49 Janie said: "It is a sad reality that, no matter how good your insurance is, if you have really major medical problems, you are going to end up in debt up to your eyeballs." EXACTLY my point and succinctly stated. In almost any situation the American family is screwed to one degree or another. No matter what your level of coverage, you're screwed. With no coverage............ I have nothing but great admiration for many within the health care profession but there is something rotten in America (and not in Denmark) when the bill for something is twice the amount that is settled for by the insurance. I receive a statement saying my bill at the hospital is 89,000, the insurance company pays the bill and only pays 48,000 and that's just fine???? What does some poor guy with lesser or no coverage pay? Betcha' he is billed the top amount and they "generously offer a 10% discount." I just heard that exact story about a month back. We need universal healthcare NOW!!! It is one of the two issues I am using together to vote. Whoever offers the best solution the fastest and is electable gets my vote. Spaw |
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24 Nov 07 - 07:10 AM (#2201211) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: maeve Sorry, Mary. That's no fun. I'm still glad you're taking cre of yourself. We do better with no insurance at all than we did with so-called health insurance via my earlier job. And whatever you do here in the US, find out the cost of calling 911 for an ambulance before you need to call. Our bill just for the ambulance was over a thousand dollars the one time we called for help. It took us two years to pay that one off. Here's to good health! maeve |
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24 Nov 07 - 08:01 AM (#2201234) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: autolycus Here's another vote for our National Health Service. So there are other possibilities. What you have in the US is not inevitable, in the dictionary sense of inevitable. I also remember reading somewhere that once upon a time, in China, doctors were only paid for their healthy patients. Ivor |
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24 Nov 07 - 08:03 AM (#2201236) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Bobert Oh, I forgot one aspect of our screwed up health insurance system... I developed a little pain in my lower back during a 10 day "driving" vaction... Heck, I drove close to 3000 miles in those 10 days so I called me doc... He saw me and sent me to a specialist who did an MRI and it was established that I had very minor degeneration in a couple of my discs, prescribed physical therapy and after 4 visits I was fine... Here's the kicker... When our current insurer went up yet another $200 a month this past year we shopped around... We found anotheer company who quoted us $1700 a month!!! We were flabbergasted so we asked them why it was so high and were told it was because of the disc problem... Problem is that the specialist said it was very minor and not uncommon for a man of my age to have some minor degeneration... In other words, this insurer was going to try to *rip me a new one* because I had bothered to tell my family practictioner about the pain, even though it turned out to be nuthin'... Now I am hesitant to even go to the doctor for anything 'cause it will give the insurers ne ammo to raise my rates... There is something drastically wrong when a population is held "hostage" by health insurance companies... Grrrrrr!!! B~ |
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24 Nov 07 - 08:30 AM (#2201251) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: kendall My brother had a minor heart attack. His wife called 911 and they sent a Medcu ambulance AND a firetruck! He yelled at them, "What the fuck is that for? I'm not on the Goddamn roof"! We all know what the problem is. Congress is controlled by drug company lobbyists. THEY write the laws, and we elect politicians that take money from them. One of the most blatant cases happened just recently, a law maker all but gutted a bill to let the government buy drugs from Canada, and when the bill failed he left congress to a job that paid a million dollars a year with one of the drug companies! He had the nerve to justify it on national tv! I was surprised to see Pat Buchanan on MSNBC when he made the statement that the car companies should be relieved of the health care burden and that the federal government should pick it up. The problem at GM is, each one of their employees costs the company $74.00 per hour. Toyota is a third of that. There are still too many Americans who see a communist under every bed and they are scared to death of Socialized medicine. Well, what the hell is Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security? If the corporate greed could be controlled we wouldn't need NHC! Health insurance hasn't always been unaffordable. |
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24 Nov 07 - 09:25 AM (#2201277) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: SINSULL Tuesday I am supposed to go for an eye exam - not exactly routine. My year old prescription is not functioning properly and there is something weird going on with my peripheral vision which requires two tests annually - $700. SIGH. Endocrinologist wants to do another biopsy on my thyroid - alson not covered by insurance. $8600 per year in premiums and deductibles before I collect anything. The prescription discounts are a joke - $3.50 on a drug that costs me $55/month. The new job offers health insurance coverage and pays 50% of the premium. Meantime I consider myself lucky to be able to pay the bills coming in - with my retirement funds. I know I am not as bad off as most but the greed pisses me off. All my health insurance does is provide a buffer between me and losing my home incase of a serious illness. Did I mention the cost of my last oil delivery???? heh heh |
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24 Nov 07 - 09:54 AM (#2201288) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: catspaw49 Wanna' move in with us? We can adopt you. Put you on our insurance and everything. Spaw |
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24 Nov 07 - 09:57 AM (#2201289) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Bobert Well, seems that just about everyone here is gettin' screwed by the health care $y$tem... Too bad that we've pissed away $476B, yes billion, dollar$ in Iraq-hole 'cause that money could have gone to fix this broken $y$tem... When we look at the real costs of Iraq-hole it's more than the $476B... It's each of us having to accept a lower standard of living... People don't take that into account when looking at the costs of Bush's failed foriegn policies... But this is the way that Bo$$ Hog and his buddies drew it up on paper... Bankrupt the US Treasury so that when it comes down to the working class their ain't nuthin' but crumbs left... Like I've said all along... When white Southern males get it, Boss Hog won't have enough words, car races, football games or credit cards to hand out that will get Boss Hog back in good graces... Things will change, that much is for sure... They just can't go on like this forever or there just might not be a forever for this country... You know, I don't think we'd mind it as much if we knew that Boss Hog was making sacrifices as well but he's never had it so good... Kendall is absolutely correct.. Meanwhile, Sins... Hang in there girl and we'll do the same... Even if it means becoming yet another member of the uninsured... There is only but so much blood in a turnip... B~ |
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24 Nov 07 - 10:33 AM (#2201305) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Sandra in Sydney damn shame you can't all migrate to Oz. We complain here about our Health system but it's heaps better. Last year I went to emergency twice - neither visit cost me a cent. Tho I had to pay for the ambulance the first time as I don't have private health cover. By-the-by, lots of uninsured folks (seniors, welfare) are covered for ambulance, but I'm not old enough! The second time I got a taxi, & this time was eventually diagnosed as my very irregular problem showed up on the monitor! I was on a heart monitor & had blood tests both times, I was Xrayed the first time, as they tried to sort out why my heart was racing at times & I felt bleh (that's the only way I could describe it). Turns out the electricity in my heart very occasionally is very irregular & a small Beta-blocker sets things right. However the private visits to the Cardiologist who works at the hospital cost money, and our universal health scheme, Medicare does not over the lot. We have a "Gap" that we are expected to pay unless Doctors bulk bill (= accept what the Govt says the service is worth, always less than the Medical professional bodies say so most don't bulk-bill). So we pay the bill, send it to Medicare & get a rebate. Fortunately we also have an annual Safety Net, when we get a lot more back after reaching a threshold, so the gap is then tiny, or maybe non-existant. I spent so much, maybe $1000 (I can't remember exactly what it was) last year & didn't have to pay the lot. We also have understaffed hospitals, long waiting lists for elective surgery, & horror stories about folks waiting for treatment in emergency, but it is so much better than the stories you are telling. good luck on getting a proper health services. sandra |
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24 Nov 07 - 11:07 AM (#2201322) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: artbrooks Well, I'm covered by the US government's socialized health care system...called the Department of Veterans Affairs. Leaving aside the issue of underfunding for all of the new disabled veterans Bush's War is creating, which will be dealt with (hopefully) by the incoming administration, it does its job well. Patients get excellent care (although the wait time, especially for an unscheduled outpatient visit, can be excessive) and prescriptions cost $12 for 3 months, whatever the medication is (gotta watch that - you can end up paying $12 for something you can buy for $5 over-the-counter). I also worked for the VA medical system for over 22 years, mostly in Human Resources, so I have personal knowledge of the quality of the staff, their concern for patients, and the professional oversight they receive...and for how quick the boom can be lowered if these are absent. The VA's major problem is a lack of money to hire enough people and to renovate/replace/augment the existing infrastructure (that's also the problem on the benefits side, with its 18-month lag for claims), which can be pointed directly at the Bush Administration's refusal to submit adequate budget requests. |
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24 Nov 07 - 11:29 AM (#2201327) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Bobert Yeah, rub it in, Sandra.... We also wait in lines and wait forever for appointments and tests but gotttra pay thru the nose for all that waitin'... B~ |
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24 Nov 07 - 12:34 PM (#2201363) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: katlaughing What does some poor guy with lesser or no coverage pay? Betcha' he is billed the top amount and they "generously offer a 10% discount." I just heard that exact story about a month back. That's exactly what happened to me when I was in hospital with no insurance three years ago, Spaw, only when my daughter tried to negotiate it down, after she provided them with ALL of the requested info concerning our income and expenditures, they only offered a ONE PER CENT discount, which brought it down to the $13,000. I have had debt collectors ask me if I've tried to get them to write it off. Oh, yes, tried is the operative word. They will have none of it. I'm with you on who I will vote for, but so far I haven't heard anything I like from ANY of them regarding health care. |
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24 Nov 07 - 12:48 PM (#2201371) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Little Hawk Unbelievable. You people need another American revolution. King George is not living in England anymore, he's in Washington...and I am not just talking about George W. Bush when I say that. I'm talking about your entire corporate-controlled Chief Executive AND Congress...all your bought politicians. When it comes to national health coverage you are living in the Dark Ages. As I've said before on this forum, my Father died of liver failure, and he had to have extensive medical assistance and hospitalization over a period of a couple of a few years to deal with that. It cost us virtually nothing, being covered by Canada's national health program. In the USA it would have utterly bankrupted the whole family, and then some. And for what? It's ridiculous. Do I mind that part of my taxes go to support a national universal coverage health system? No, I sure as hell do not mind it. Not one bit. Do I think it's "Communism"? No, I think that Communism is a one-party dictatorial system backed up by a million heavily armed soldiers and secret police who will lock you up and possibly shoot you if you question the system. Do I think it's socialism? YEAH!!! And I think that we could use a bit more of that instead of doing everything just so that a few rich bastards and big marketing outfits can get even richer off ordinary people's misfortunes. |
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24 Nov 07 - 01:10 PM (#2201390) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: wysiwyg This sytem took more than one president to screw us up; I remember chaplain Gene warning us about it in great and well-educated detail when the hospital eliminated his position. (Free social workers, that's that they expect chaplains to be.) He had scoped out the managed healthcare that was coming and read it all quite accurately. We, the people, didn;t get on the ball quick enough. LH, I really didn't like being called "you people." At Mudcat, the USers are people who yoiu have so much in common with, much more than the rest of our citizens I suspect. I for one get tired of being targeted as an American; of course the current regime sucks, but here at My=udcat, we're the sort working on changing it, not the people who were for it. We're outnumbered, unfortunately. In our denomination, healthcare benefits are part of the low salary offered to masters-degreed professionals who work long, difficult hours. First, the public thinks they can park in the "clergy only" space where my husband often ditches his car on his way into the adjoining ER to respond to the hospital's pleas for emergency chaplain assistance ("Oh, was that your space, I thought you people only work on Sunday mornings"). Also, our parish-paid "health" benefits, while they eat up a lot of parish funds, provide coverage about as lousy as the public aid medical card I carried for awhile as a single parent. My point is not that the clergy family should not have to endure long periods in waiting rooms, healthcare barriers, and bills like everyone else-- we're just PEOPLE. My point is that because our parish struggles so hard to pay for it, and since it's so expensive, they think they've provided for us well. They like to feel good about that. So they flip when we tell them how bad the coverage is, because it's costing them dearly to "look after" their priest as they would like to do. ~Susan |
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24 Nov 07 - 01:42 PM (#2201417) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Little Hawk Okay, then, I will address you as "my fellow North Americans". How's that? |
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24 Nov 07 - 01:47 PM (#2201418) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: kendall From my friend, Utah Phillips: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the multi national corporations and to the profit for which they stand. One interlocking directorate under no government indivisible with monopoly and cheap labor for all. |
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24 Nov 07 - 01:50 PM (#2201423) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Little Hawk Perfect! ;-) |
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24 Nov 07 - 01:55 PM (#2201426) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: TRUBRIT The isue of health care here is one that totally merits any kind of rant out there!!!!! I am ecstatic that my two daughters now have health insurance through their work -- the younger one didn't even have to age off our policy -- but for one month for which I purchased catastrophic coverage for that month to the tune of $250.00. My son, however, the non academic and non studious one has aged out of the policy because he is over19 and not yet in school (not going either). So I pay $250 a month catastrophic cover for him. BUT Maine has a rew regulation that goes into effect at renewal (January) which will allow me to put him back on our policy (the company owner -- me -- has to agree to it and guess what, I agree). So in January he will go back on and hopefully our premiums will come down -- our oldest girl used to work for us and was on our policy -- she is now employed in the school system and our insurance went up to $1700 (PER MONTH -- we lost the youth angle, and my husband had a mini stroke once.........) so we wait with bated breath to see what a 19 year old (healthy) will do to the premiums when he gets put back on.....). It's getting ludicrous -- for me I purchase medical insurance only because I am afraid of a major disease striking -- ad I think for many people it is the same. But at these kind of premiums one could just save the money for 5 years and have a 'stash' in the bank. And even with insurance -- a serious illness will bankrupt any of us due to the loopholes. It is a travesty..... |
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24 Nov 07 - 02:23 PM (#2201446) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Janie It is not accurate to say that in countries with a national health plan, it costs the individual nothing, or very little, for health care. Those costs are covered by tax dollars. I'm thinking the income tax rates are significantly higher in those countries. |
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24 Nov 07 - 02:43 PM (#2201452) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Little Hawk Yes, of course the costs are covered by tax dollars, Jeri, as are the costs of public education, the military, the courts, law enforcement, the various levels of government, major transportation and communication and utility networks, and most of the other stuff we take for granted and without which we could not have a functioning society. So what? Does this hurt me? I don't think so. I don't mind paying for what is needed by the whole society. The point is that those costs are spread out proportionately among the whole population, so that people can afford to pay for these things...and so the few that are struck with an illness at any given time are not figuratively kicked in the teeth by society when they are down and least able to deal with the situation. If you think that the portion of Canadian yearly tax dollars that I and my family have to contribute toward being medically covered is in any way comparable to the incredible sums of money Americans get charged for a medical emergency in the USA...then you have missed my point, haven't you? I am not crippled by my yearly income taxes. I can budget for them. They don't sneak up and hit me unawares as an illness or an injury can. Also, my taxes are not going to finance the world's most bloated military budget. I wonder how much the average American is paying each year to kill Iraqis and other such unfortunate people? I bet it's a lot more than I pay for medical coverage...and it's a lot worse spent. My opinion? A cynical bunch of American politicians have misled generations of Americans by offering them the carrot of (supposedly) "lower taxes", pandering to their self-interest basically, while robbing them out of their back and side pockets in a thousand ways that they never even notice. The tax you pay in your yearly income tax return is just ONE of the many ways that people are taxed in a modern society. Most of those ways are cleverly hidden from immediate notice. It's a flim-flam operation. The amazing thing is, people fall for it every time...and they think, "Oh, that won't happen to me...so why should I pay any taxes in case it does? I mean, hey, who cares if it happens to some else anyway? And why should I pay for someone else's problems?" |
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24 Nov 07 - 02:44 PM (#2201453) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Maryrrf Oh God Mary I sympathize. This system is a travesty. We already have many of the disadvantages of socialized medicine - long wait times, having to go through all the 'referral' nonsense, etc. with none of the advantages. And there's very little security in having health insurance (you never know how much or if they really will pay - you may unknowingly violate some obscure requirement or your doctor may not fill out the forms right...) or of course if you're not part of a group they may just drop you if you get sick. And the costs are so astronomical that very few would be able to save up enough to deal with a real catastrophic medical situation. And I don't think the taxes are any higher in those countries who have socialized medicine if you factor in the cost of the health care premiums many of us are paying. Our system isn't working. The statistics speak for themselves - our infant mortality rate is significantly below the rest of the developed world, and one fifth of all the countries exceed us in life expectancy. It's a disgrace. |
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24 Nov 07 - 02:44 PM (#2201454) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: autolycus Wonder what would happen if everyone really, really, really took their own health seriously enough to investigate all the avenues in order to discover why we get ill, and what we can do not to be. Such avenues exist. There are things we can do. A healthier approach than just being frightened of the possible onset of one health prob or another. Not to mention thinking that insurance is the solution. it's about taking that responsibility for ourselves which is our's rather than not doing so;(and in contrast with any resposibility that is not our's). N.B. Taking some responibility is not the same as being blamed. Ivor |
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24 Nov 07 - 02:54 PM (#2201463) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Little Hawk Actually, I do that, autolycus. I have had to take almost no advantage whatsoever of my Canadian health insurance over the years, because I have had very few health problems. That means I've been paying my taxes to take care of someone else's health problems. And you know what? That's fine with me. I don't mind one bit. It's part of maintaining a decent and responsibly functioning society. What I do mind paying taxes for is our military adventure in Afghanistan...but I realize that life will never be perfect, and I will never have everything arranged exactly as I would desire. ;-) I just expect a certain level of social responsibility on the part of a society. That level includes, among other things, a universal national health insurance program. |
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24 Nov 07 - 03:01 PM (#2201466) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: TRUBRIT Clearly - nothing is free. But as is so ably pointed out above -- you can budget for taxes -- you can manage them and everyone pays them (or should) --- it is the uncertainly of medical situations that is so scarey. I'm giving serious thought to rhrowing the insurance away - saving money - and moving to the UK if a terrible illness hits. I'm healthy - I eat right - I'm not overwieght.....Autolycus, I think your comment is interesting......maybe we are all looking at this from the wrong angle... |
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24 Nov 07 - 03:52 PM (#2201499) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: autolycus Thanks truebrit. LH, taxes is swings and roundabouts. I pay for things I don't use and others do. Others pay for things they don't use that I do. It's called 'society' or movement of energy or summat. Ivor |
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24 Nov 07 - 03:58 PM (#2201500) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: TRUBRIT Amen |
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24 Nov 07 - 05:07 PM (#2201536) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Little Hawk Exactly, Ivor. It is the normal functioning of society. |
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24 Nov 07 - 05:23 PM (#2201544) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: gnu SINS.... awwww rats. |
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24 Nov 07 - 05:36 PM (#2201550) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Richard Bridge Check out "socialised" medicine before assuming all it generates is queues. And would you rather that medical need or wealth best offered expedition. I begin to feel that petrol emotion again... |
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24 Nov 07 - 08:20 PM (#2201609) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Janie LH, that wasn't Jeri, that was me, Janie. I'm a strong proponent of national health care. I just think it important that people not think of it as 'free.' It isn't. It is however, and as Little Hawk, autolycus, and others have pointed out, much more equitable, and protects against financial ruin because of health care costs, as noted by Trubrit. Janie |
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24 Nov 07 - 10:20 PM (#2201643) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Little Hawk Hey, man, the profiteers in the medical industry who sell to the sick, feeble, and twisted (as you put it) would much rather that those people did not follow any of your good health advice...it makes so much more money to deal with their chronic illnesses and give them drugs to ease the pain! A sick populace means big bucks for the sickness industry. Don't forget that. If everyone followed your commie advice and lived a healthy lifestyle the drug companies might go belly-up, national health care or no national health care. Yer a frickin' anti-business subversive! Go back to Cuba! ;-) Sincerely, Leedle Hack
Message referred to deleted. Please don't feed the trolls. |
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25 Nov 07 - 02:52 AM (#2201689) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: autolycus Which is why the Chinese example might be food for thought. I don't knowe if it still operates, mind. I believe it's sometimes the case that even NHS doctors (some) can be somewhat at the mercy of drug company propaganda. There is also a general belief about in the UK, the mas media for example, that drugs and science are the whole answer to medical problems. Part, certainly; 'whole'? I-I-I-I think definitely not. Disease often means wjat it says on the tin - dis-ease. Ivor |
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25 Nov 07 - 03:05 PM (#2201914) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: TRUBRIT I did a long post that was eaten by wild beasties........basically it asked if the Chinese example means homeopathic and alternative medicine? If so it is alive and well as far as I am aware and worhty of seriuos consideration. I am VERY healthy -- in hospital just four times in my life. Once for meningitis which I got as a result of mumpt when I was 13 -- fortunately I was in England at the time as my recently widowed mum did not have a pot to piss in and could not have paid a medical bill if her life depended on it. And three times for babies -- 2 ops both for recalcitrant children. I go to the Doctor once a year for a check up because at my age it is necessary -- I am not overweight, walk a lot, don't eat any crap- only drink too much on occasions (usually at Sins) -- could I take the risk of going uninsured? I really wonder -- if I believed the insurance would take care of me -- REALLY take care of me - if something serious happened it might be worth it -- but I doubt that with my heart...... |
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25 Nov 07 - 03:19 PM (#2201925) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: autolycus Don't know,TRUBRIT. I thought it just measnt the general Chinese medical profession. Incidentally, I do realise that talking as I was about taking one's responsibility is a line that some won't like, feel uncomfortable about, might wish to avoid etc. I know we usually want to think that it is up to someone else to sort problems out, and that there is usually someone else sought out to pin the blame on for anything wrong. Taking our own responsibility aint easy. We on my therapy course fought the idea, and we were willing in the sense of choosing the course. Ivor |
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25 Nov 07 - 03:58 PM (#2201945) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Bat Goddess The other downside to the US's massively screwed up health insurance situation is that it actively encourages age discrimination in employment. I'm 58 years old -- so my health insurance (at least partially paid for by the company) is more expensive than for those 30 year olds out there. And I certainly can't afford to retire at 65 (when at least I'll be eligible for Medicare) at any other age, alas, so I'll be needing a decent job -- and I don't mean greeter at Walmart! -- for quite awhile. Just this afternoon I was talking to a 17 year old clerk at a discount store. She has Crohn's disease, has lost a foot of her colon, takes 56 pills per day, and is terrified of what's going to happen when she loses her insurance next year when she turns 18. Ya know, the stress of it all is enough to make ya sick! Linn |
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25 Nov 07 - 04:27 PM (#2201964) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: autolycus Just remembered a Jackie mason line. he's been talking about money and the US and says, "There's only one thing you can get in America without money. Sick." Ivor |
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25 Nov 07 - 04:43 PM (#2201972) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Maryrrf It's very easy to say "people should take care of their own health - eat healthy, excercise, etc." That's true, but that doesn't mean you won't get sick. And what about accidents? |
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25 Nov 07 - 04:44 PM (#2201974) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: katlaughing Yes, it is our responsibility, but sometimes all one can do is react to something, rather than prevent through being proactive. They think my old aortic valve was leaky from either birth or a high fever when I was a baby before penicillin and I was allergic to sulfa, still am. We didn't even know it leaked until I was in my twenties. By then, it made keeping up my exercise, etc. very difficult, so I lurched along. There were some things I could have done better, but we did our best in the circumstances. Now that I have a new valve I absolutely feel it is solely on me to stay healthy and help my heart as much as possible. I know there are other folks who don't have a choice due to something from birth or early childhood. So, I guess what I am saying is, yeah, take responsibility, but also understand that some folks don't get into a dire need thing due only to lack of responsibility. Me? I am working on a balance between the homeopathic/naturopathic/allopathic. I loathe the latter mainly because it is their "job" to find something wrong, so the whole premise seems backwards to me. They are useful for surgeries, broken bones, etc. TRUBRIT, I said no to the insurance when the premiums became more than we were paying for rent when we lived in WY. I skated by okay even though I was on oxygen and had the leaky valve until three years ago. That's when the old valve just couldn't do much anymore. Thank goodness the company Rog worked for was sold and we got insurance two months later. Miraculously there was no pre-existing clause as that si what paid for my surgery. There is no way I could go without now, but I'd sure love to. Good luck with your decision. |
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25 Nov 07 - 07:14 PM (#2202060) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: RangerSteve My health insureance company just mailed me a letter last month that starts " Our records show that you may be diabetic". They've been paying for the treatments for 16 years. They don't cover me in some states, unless it's an emergency that involves going to a hospital. When my Mom died, I called them to see if they would cover my dialysis in South Carolina for two days. The Dialysis center that I go to has branches all around where she lived in SC, but my insurance won't pay in that state. I explained that I needed to attend my Mom's funeral. Their reply "Sorry, but they're not in the system". I explained again that it was for my Mom's FUNERAL. oh, well in that case, of course. We'll get back to you. Two hours later "Sorry, they're not in the system". I explained the situation again. Oh, of course we can accomodate you. We'll get back to you. Two hourse later, "Sorry, they're not in the system". My doctor's office and the dialysis center both had poeple trying to get them to yield, but the answer was the same. My doctor's secretary was on the phone for 5 hours one day, with no results. Finally, after 5 days of trying, they relented, but 10 hours before I needed my next dialysis treatment, too late to make arrangements for it in SC, which is a 12 hour drive from my house. Fortunately, a friend offered to go with me and share the driving. I had dialysis here in New Jersey on Thurs. morning, drove to SC, got there at midnight, went to the service next morning, stayed around long enough to be polite, and came home in time for dialysis in NJ the next morning. They apparently have no idea of how for NJ and SC were from each other, and thought that I could just show up at any dialysis center unannounced and get treatment. They also won't pay for Lipitor, a cholesterol medicine. They'll pay for another med, but one that could have an adverse effect on my kidneys. They're paying for my dialysis, but don't know that my kidneys are shot. |
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25 Nov 07 - 09:51 PM (#2202137) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: TRUBRIT This is just horrible.........not sure what to say other than I would HAPPILY pay this as part of our taxes than lose sleep at night over this........ |
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25 Nov 07 - 11:55 PM (#2202187) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Ythanside From the comments posted here the US healthcare system appears little more than a sick joke played on sick people. Knowing that stress kills otherwise healthy individuals, how in the name of decency can the wealthiest nation on the planet burden its sick and injured with a 'no money--no treatment' policy? |
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26 Nov 07 - 12:03 AM (#2202189) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Janie Although there is clearly still a battle ahead, some sort of national health care plan is inevitable. Any kind of national plan is better than no national plan, but I very much dread what the first stages are going to be like. It is likely it will be a public-private "partnership." If there was some balance between Corporate and Government, that would not be a bad thing. But there isn't. In the arena of essential public services designed to meet the needs of the private citizenry, all attempts at a partnership so far have been a real boondoggle. Net result? Most people needing those services suffer. I am resigned that we will have to 'reinvent the wheel'. |
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26 Nov 07 - 02:31 PM (#2202591) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: autolycus Mary, you're right up to a point. That's why I put a lot of "really"s in. It's a bit like how we tend to look left and right before crossing the road; just improving the odds. Not too many just march across without looking. I can give examples of health improved, and sickness avoided by care and attention. As for accidents, there are accidents and accidents. And a lot more to it than simply deferring to accidents. Which is not to day there's no such thing, he added gnomically. Ivor |
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26 Nov 07 - 03:22 PM (#2202625) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: katlaughing RangerSteve, my sympathies as you are confronted with such stupidity! I do not understand the logic of current campaigning, and in Massachusetts where it has been made the law, of saying they are going to require people to have health insurance. I think it should be "provide" not "require." It makes no sense to me to tell folks who cannot afford health insurance or who barely are able to cover premiums and co-pays, etc. that they MUST have it when they cannot afford it now. How on earth are they then supposed to get it? I know the politicians claim they will have cheap ways of getting it, but for some folks it cheap would have to be next to nothing in order to afford it. I guess what really bothers is me is why should anyone be forced to AND why should anyone pay for it other than through taxes? We need a health care revolution! |
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27 Nov 07 - 10:59 PM (#2203672) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Ron Davies What really irks me about the situation, besides the obvious fact that the US health system is broken, and needs major overhaul, is the attitude of the defenders of the current system and their arguments for "improving" it. From reading WSJ editorials, always a good barometer of the Neanderthal Right-- (i.e. Bush apologists)-- the current regime's attitude is that individuals are responsible for their own health, bad or good. Corollaries of this: 1) They can change their behavior to cut their health bills. 2) If you give them financial incentive to do so, they will (hence Bush's wonderful new idea, the "Health Savings Accounts" which reward you for not spending on your own health.) 3) If you don't try to cut your own health expenses, by cutting treatments or drugs, you should pay more. As if people have a choice on dialysis, cancer treatment, degenerative spine disease, etc--and enjoy going to the doctor--so do it needlessly. It's a nice day. I think I'll go have a colonoscopy. Obviously it is reasonable to reward people for healthy behavior, like quitting smoking, or not smoking to begin with. But once a person has need for medical attention, it's despicable to give that person incentive to skimp on his or her own health care--to not seek needed medical attention, which is exactly how the current system is geared. Bush supporters want to increase the incentives to not seek medical attention since they claim that much medical attention is discretionary-- which could only be the view of somebody who's never had a major health problem. The US health system as it stands is only meant to serve the healthy. Anybody else is up a creek---and sold down the river. |
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27 Nov 07 - 11:08 PM (#2203675) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: mg I look forward to a totally efficient and all-encompassing national health care. I dread the transition. I say start from the bottom up with a huge public health program..reinvent public health nurses who make home visits. Install a nurse here and there for all the problems they say clog up emergency rooms..routine things..contract maybe with Chex medical centers for non-urgent care. Have public health hospitals. As the kinks work out, expand this upwards. Have many incentives for people to go into public health nursing, doctoring, paramedcing etc. with free tuition or reduced repayment of loans etc. Train every trainable prisoner to provide some aspect of health care and let them know there will be jobs for them working with the unserved currently members of the populations..highly supervised and selected to make sure sex offenders and violent ones etc. are not providing care. Maybe some care could be provided in minimum security prisons to the outside population..very carefully monitored and perhaps videotaped for additional security. And we need transitional housing and jobs for released prisoners and those on parole. No access to certain drugs of course...mg |
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28 Nov 07 - 01:16 PM (#2204002) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Donuel MOORE CUT THIS FROM HIS MOVIE SICKO http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/19529-michael-moore-cut-this-scene-from-sicko-because-no-one-would-believe-it |
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28 Nov 07 - 01:46 PM (#2204026) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Little Hawk Michael Moore might get his point across better if he didn't try to make it all so cute and sarcastic and funny. He pushes too hard when he's making a point. However, it does not surprise me that Norway and Sweden are miles ahead of the USA and most other places when it comes to health care and most public services. What does surprise me is that many Americans appear to react to hearing about it with vicious and totally uncalled-for attacks ON Norway to make themselves feel better...! (they can't come up with anything better than that, evidently) "Norway is run by Communists" says one of them. How pathetic. What ignorance. He wouldn't know a Communist if he fell over one. Read some of the comments below the video, and you'll see. Talk about people in a severe state of denial...! |
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28 Nov 07 - 02:18 PM (#2204053) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: katlaughing Donuel, thanks for the link to the Norway bit. VERY interesting. Mom used to call me her "little Norwegian" as I was born in North Dakota where there was a large population of Norwegians. I don't have a drop of Norwegian blood in me, but I would be proud of it if I did, esp. after seeing that video. LH, I agree with you about Moore dripping too much sarcasm. While I agree with him and may make my own sarcastic remarks, I think he'd reach more people with less of it. |
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28 Nov 07 - 03:17 PM (#2204104) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: skarpi hallo I went to a doctor today and I paid nearly 50 euro for the visit . I will have to go to a surgery in Jan and then I have to about 500-1000 $ for three hours ? and yesterday we got it on the news that Iceland was the best country to live in ??? well I ´ll blow on that |
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28 Nov 07 - 04:21 PM (#2204160) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: GUEST,pattyClink Paid 20% of my gross income out of pocket this year for medical costs and fairly bad care, despite being "insured". Let's see, then taxes were another 30%, so that left me a cool 50% to throw away on food and stuff. We finally saw Sicko on DVD, but when we try to explain it to other people, they don't get it. You say: almost nowhere in the world is getting well linked to cash payments on your part. They say: you want socialized medicine and sky-high taxes, you raving lunatic. Nobody who hasn't been through this illness-impoverishing wringer, or who hasn't seen 'Sicko' can grasp that we need to nationalize it. All their life they've been taught we have top health care and that the 'free market' is the reason. I don't think anything is going to change until the 'proletariat' gets to see Sicko on free broadcast television. THEN we may see the giant rise up. |
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28 Nov 07 - 05:56 PM (#2204235) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Bill D Almost all the presidential candidates (well, the Democrats, anyway) are promising some sort of health insurance for everyone, but I am not holding my breath, because I don't look good in blue. Face it...the system we have is designed to benefit far too many groups who do not WANT it changed, from drug companies to HMOs to many doctors to corporations to just plain rich folks who see their taxes rising to help poor folks stay healthy. ANYONE who imagines their cut of the pie will be even the teeniest bit smaller with National Health Insurance will strive to defeat it...or put in place some joke system which merely 'rearranges the deck chairs on the Titantic'. They don't seem to understand that the country as a whole will benefit, and that preventative care will eventually SAVE them money. Right now, certain elements understand that in the system as it is, they find it easier to control and divert the flow of money in quantities and directions they choose. There is nothing so hard as getting those who MAKE the rules to make new rules which reduce their clout. And who wants to bet that one excuse will be, "Oh, we are SO far in debt with this |
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28 Nov 07 - 07:14 PM (#2204286) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Little Hawk Yup, you got that right, Bill. It is the maintenance of the same old tired old "the free market is always best" mythology in the USA that maintains the grand illusion that all is well and proper...the myth just gets repeated again and again and again, and people believe it. They actually think they're better off without a universal health care system, equally available to all. And the rest of the (developed) world watches in astonishment and wonder that anyone could believe such an outrageous myth! Such national myths are easy to believe for people exposed to them from childhood on. It's an act of faith, not based on any real observation, not based on any real thought about the matter, just the endless repetition of past accustomed behaviour and assumption. "We are living in the Greatest Country on Earth...therefore our medical system must be the best." Yeah, right. Sure thing. Uh-huh. |
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28 Nov 07 - 07:15 PM (#2204287) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Maryrrf Unfortunately, depressingly, I think Bill D has it right. It's very discouraging. At best we may end up with some kind of patchy watered down plan that may help some people, but many will continue to slip through the cracks. |
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28 Nov 07 - 07:44 PM (#2204302) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Bill D 2 nods of agreement...gee, this is one time I wish someone would disagree & prove me wrong! But since many members of Congress are themselves part OF, or beholden TO, the entrenched vested interests, I am not optimistic. PLEASE let a Democrat be elected, so I will feel like we have a 17% chance, instead of a 1.04% chance. |
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28 Nov 07 - 08:02 PM (#2204323) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Art Thieme We had health insurance. Bought it when nothing was done on an out- patient basis. So the insurance we bought covered only in-patient hospitalizations. THEN, the system changed! Everything, now, is done on an out- patient basis. Because of our several pre-existing conditions, we could not purchase new meaningful health insurance to cover all possibilities. Over the next ten years all our reserves went to pay our uncovered bills. Finally, there was no cash to pay ever increasing premiums for the piss-poor insurance we did have. So we lost that! I was able to secure disability through Social Security in order to have some income. My spouse could not get needed disability because she, for her own health reasons, was never able to work enough "quarters" (as Soc. Sec. calls it) to qualify for Soc. Sec. Disability -- and eventually have Medicare. Me having other income meant she couldn't qualify for SSI either. Now, for her to have needed monthly medical treatments, Medicaid pays for those treatments only if we (I) am able to pay a "Spend Down" --- a large sum designed by Medicaid to insure we are living in poverty. Folks, I'm glad to do it. At least she has health insurance --- though many doctors won't accept Medicaid's late and piddling payments. Having the luxury of being a beatnik and a folksinger for forty years, I learned how to live on nothing---and enjoy the hell out of it too. As I'm fond of saying: "Life is a gas! Sometimes pure oxygen and sometimes a fart! But I continue to breathe deeply whatever wafts my way!" Like Bill D, I don't expect any politicians to find a meaningful and workable answer to these dilemmas any more than I expect a cure will be found for our main maladies. Life is what it is! Art |
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28 Nov 07 - 10:14 PM (#2204386) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: TRUBRIT But that just isn't good enough --- it needs to change........ |
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28 Nov 07 - 10:20 PM (#2204390) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: TRUBRIT somehow can't get audio on thr piece MM cut from sicko -- is there a secret? |
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28 Nov 07 - 10:32 PM (#2204395) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Janie None of the major candidates are proposing anything close to a single payor system. All of their proposals rely primarily on regulation of the insurance industry and tax incentives. John Edward's' proposal is the most detailed to date. They are all too complex to be effectively comprehensive. They all talk about cost containment, but none of them really detail how medical costs are to be contained. None of them really recognize the need to equitably distribute the national cost of medical care, or recognize the inefficiencies and extremely high administrative costs involved with a heavily-regulated private system involving many different private insurances, each with their own set of internal rules, regulations and documentation requirements. Our current 'system' mostly functions by cost shifting the price of treatment for medical conditions, and denial or limiting of preventive care to anyone who is uninsured, and many who are insured. Increasingly, even Medicaid recipients are being denied care by virtue of co-pays they do not have the means to meet. people on fixed incomes with only Medicare can not afford adequate care. Many private practitioners in mental health do not deal with insurance. The private practice partnership I have just started is not going to. Too much administrative overhead for the practice to be viable. If there was one, dominant insurance company in the area to deal with, we probably would opt to take that one insurance. But we are not about to tackle dealing with 5 or 6 or 10 different companies. Because the three of us all come from the public mental health arena we wanted to take Medicaid. But the record keeping for that is too complex, and the reimbursement rate too low. We could not collect enough to cover the cost of providing services. There are a small but growing number of general medical practices that are opting out of taking insurances for the same reason. That 'some one else', currently, is the tax payer, and not the profit taker (and providers of medical care are not, by and large, the predominant profit takers.) But because it is all this shifting, unackowleged process, it is hidden and not understood by the general public. When a Medicaid recipient or an uninsured person avoids earlier care, and then ends up at the ER, really, really sick, the cost gets shifted to some one else. When a patient can not afford medications, and gets them through a patient assistance program, or, as we do at our clinic, through month after month of 'samples' (andboy,do we ever work the drug reps. to keep our sample closet filled,) that cost gets shifted to someone else. I am not a proponent of completely socialized medicine. But as a person with experience as both a consumer and provider, our current dual systems do not work, and none of the candidates are proposing an integrated system that will work. They are all way too heavily weighted toward capitalism and profit-taking by the few at the expense of the many, and do not provide for anything that approaches the necessity of a more equitable distribution of the costs, risks, and benefits that would make for a viable plan. I say, let the tax payer (me, you, most of us) assume most of the costs and the risks, but be transparent about it. Then, let us also reap more of the benefits in the form of adequate health care for all. That ain't a'gonna happen soon. In the meantime, any of the proposals of the major candidates are better than what, as a society, we have now. If we are gonna reinvent the wheel, let's get on with it. Janie |
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28 Nov 07 - 11:13 PM (#2204413) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: GUEST,pattyClink Because the 'major candidates' are all bought and paid for by corporations, step one is to stop listening to them and start listening to the 'minor candidates'. Kucinich is the only one with a serious reform for the health system, and Paul would at least make some key changes. The rest are playing footsie with the insurance industry. I just got through watching Ron Paul get pushed to the background again on a 'debate' while Romney and Giuliani sniped at each other, McCain rattled his self-righteous saber, and Huckabee thumped the bible. There's yer 'major candidates' and what they are good for. But the mainstream media has chosen its favorites and wants to shove them down our throats. All we have to do is vomit. |
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28 Nov 07 - 11:56 PM (#2204423) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Janie I don't disagree with you at all, pC. but come general election time, our viable options are assuredly going to be limited to one of the major candidates. A baby step in the right direction is better than no step at all, or even worse, a step in the absolute opposite direction. The voices of those 'minor' candidates matter. They definitely influence the thinking of the general public over time. Planting seeds. Shoving as hard as they can to move our thinking as a society, a quarter of an inch at a time, down a path with more real potential for the the greater good. I think the voting public is out ahead of all the politicians on national health care. The voice of candidates like Kucinich deserves credit for that. Such candidates serve as 'consciousness raisers.' Change in a big country like ours is always incremental. It would happen at an even slower rate without such voices. |
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29 Nov 07 - 01:41 AM (#2204441) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: autolycus So all the major candidates are apparently very similar about this. In the land of choice? We have the same prob here in the UK. Whereas the fight agin the old Soviets was partly about the fact that they were thought exactly to lack choice. Ivor PS I just burped up a bit of bitterness! |
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29 Nov 07 - 01:45 PM (#2204830) Subject: RE: BS: Health Insurance RANT!!!!! From: Art Thieme Janie, given your expertise, I'm certain you know about ECT treatments. Those are the ones she gets pretty much monthly now. Our provider bills Medicaid and accepts what they pay. The treatments, when fairly regular, help her quite a bit. --- It ia amazing what we can get used to!!!!!!!!!!!!!--- Art |