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10 Dec 07 - 09:37 PM (#2212821) Subject: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: sbg2d There are plenty of songs about men killing women can anyone suggest one about a woman killing a man? |
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10 Dec 07 - 09:38 PM (#2212822) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: C. Ham Frankie & Johnnie (aka Frankie & Albert) |
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10 Dec 07 - 09:39 PM (#2212823) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,Les B. Frankie & Johnny |
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10 Dec 07 - 09:40 PM (#2212824) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Rabbi-Sol "Caleb" as done by Red Molly SOL |
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10 Dec 07 - 09:40 PM (#2212825) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,Les B. I think also an old song called Frankie Silver ? |
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10 Dec 07 - 10:16 PM (#2212838) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Kent Davis The Six King's Daughters (Child # 4), Johnny Randal (Child #12), and Young Heneree (Child # 68) come to mind. They are all found in FOLK SONGS OF THE WEST VIRGINIA HILLS by Patrick W. Gainer. Kent |
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10 Dec 07 - 10:31 PM (#2212840) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Phil Cooper Lord Thomas & Lady Margaret; Young Hunting; Earl Richard (both the other two are variants of Young Henree, mentioned by Kent Davis). Lord Gregory's Mother is also not a sterling character. Lord Abor & Mary Flynn, again, mom's not so great. There's also Dave Carter's song "Bonnie Brown." There's more. |
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10 Dec 07 - 10:48 PM (#2212843) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Cap't Bob The Great Silkie of Sule Skerry Cap't Bob |
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10 Dec 07 - 11:08 PM (#2212846) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,Volgadon The Outlandish Knight. |
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10 Dec 07 - 11:34 PM (#2212855) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,Gerry Step It Out Nancy |
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11 Dec 07 - 12:00 AM (#2212862) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: harpmolly Volgadon...you beat me to it! "Lie there, lie there you false young man..." I don't know if this counts, but what about Drowned Lovers? The mother curses her son and causes him to drown, even though she doesn't kill him with her own hands. Creepy. |
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11 Dec 07 - 01:53 AM (#2212880) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,leeneia That song with the chorus Roll on, roll on Monongehela [sp] down to the Ohio past Aliquippa on to the Mississippa way out to the Gulf of Mexico. (You sing it more for the sound of it than the plot.) |
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11 Dec 07 - 02:02 AM (#2212881) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,leeneia That deathless ditty I just mentioned is in the DT. Look for Monongahela Sal. |
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11 Dec 07 - 02:22 AM (#2212883) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: BK Lick Well, in Eggs and Marrow Bones she gives it a good try anyway. |
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11 Dec 07 - 02:31 AM (#2212888) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,DWR A couple that haven't been mentioned, though they are relatives of ones that have, are Henry Lee and The Willow Tree or The Lonely Willow Tree. |
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11 Dec 07 - 05:40 AM (#2212936) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: John MacKenzie Miss Otis Regrets. |
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11 Dec 07 - 05:51 AM (#2212940) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Grab Lord Randal/Randall is poisoned by his lover. |
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11 Dec 07 - 06:49 AM (#2212958) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,PMB She has taken a brace of pistols And she has shot her false willie-o. |
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11 Dec 07 - 07:23 AM (#2212976) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: oldhippie I like Holly Near's rendition of "Step It Out Nancy". Wasn't there a song "Another Man Done Gone"? |
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11 Dec 07 - 07:25 AM (#2212977) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Newport Boy "She has taken a brace of pistols And she has shot her false willie-o." That's just a serious injury!! "...shot her false Willie-O" is nearer. Phil |
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11 Dec 07 - 07:31 AM (#2212981) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: maeve "The Great Silkie of Sule Skerry Cap't Bob" ********* Sorry, Cap't Bob, I don't understand the inclusion of this one. The lady's husband kills the Great Silkie and his son. Do you have a different version? Thanks, maeve |
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11 Dec 07 - 08:09 AM (#2212992) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,Darowyn Rikititikititin! A song about Lizzie Borden- pretty indiscriminating as to the gender of her victims. |
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11 Dec 07 - 08:19 AM (#2212999) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,PMB Then there's that song about the servant girl who sees off numbers of would be assailants "with her box on her head"... Staffordshire Maid? |
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11 Dec 07 - 08:38 AM (#2213012) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: theleveller "And she has shot her false willie"?????????? No, I won't go there. |
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11 Dec 07 - 08:43 AM (#2213014) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Newport Boy Did that one an hour ago - Yawn! Phil |
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11 Dec 07 - 09:01 AM (#2213028) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Jim Dixon There's Bessie Smith's SEND ME TO THE 'LECTRIC CHAIR, which has been posted several times at Mudcat: 1, 2, 3, 4. The genders can be easily switched, though--see David Bromberg's version. |
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11 Dec 07 - 09:14 AM (#2213041) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Rapparee Barbara Allen The Maid of Fife-e-o Nancy Whisky |
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11 Dec 07 - 09:32 AM (#2213049) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: greg stephens While Betty didn't exactly kill Dupree(Betty and Dupree Blues, or Dupree Blues), she caused his death indirectly. |
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11 Dec 07 - 09:50 AM (#2213059) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: cptsnapper That's The Way The Girls Are From Texas |
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11 Dec 07 - 09:52 AM (#2213060) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Beer Dixie Chick: "Goodbye Earl" Beer (adrien) |
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11 Dec 07 - 12:45 PM (#2213189) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: McGrath of Harlow Most of the time in the songs the blokes who get killed have rather asked for it. |
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11 Dec 07 - 02:12 PM (#2213240) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Jim Carroll There is a wonderful poem by Thomas Hardy about a woman whose husband who comes home drunk each night and beats her, is sewn up into a blanket so he starves to death. I believe Mike Waterson made a song based on it. Jim Carroll |
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11 Dec 07 - 03:25 PM (#2213294) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Bonnie Shaljean Fanny Blair - not a woman but an 11-year girl who kills a man with a lie. The song is absolutely chilling. |
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11 Dec 07 - 03:40 PM (#2213303) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,leeneia There is no evidence that Barbara Allen or Lord Randall's unnamed lover killed anyone. The songs are just laying a guilt trip on a woman who didn't knuckle under a suitor just because he fancied her. Life expectancy was much shorter in earlier centuries, and the reason is obvious. People, especially men, died of love all too easily. Sweet Willie and Lady Margot comes to mind. |
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11 Dec 07 - 04:05 PM (#2213318) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: McGrath of Harlow I don't think he actually starved to death, J C. As I recall it, he just got hungry and beaten, and learned the error of his ways. |
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11 Dec 07 - 04:09 PM (#2213320) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Herga Kitty Sarah Gray / Sally Gray who shot young William Taylor. The banks of the Sweet Dundee (her pistol drew and her uncle slew) The Outlandish Knight Lie there, lie there, thou false hearted knight Lie there and drown – Said she Six pretty maids has thou drowned here And the seventh drowned thee! And of course, Lord Randall and all its variants Kitty |
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11 Dec 07 - 04:29 PM (#2213339) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Herga Kitty And indirectly, Lady Erskine in Child Owlet My own sporting Jenny who filled the pistols up with water before sending for Captain Farrell to be ready for the slaughter. The woman who lay naked on the road to entrap Young Johnson, who was attacked and killed when he stopped to help her. Kitty |
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11 Dec 07 - 04:59 PM (#2213368) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,Flatpick 'Caleb Mayer' by Gillian Welch |
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11 Dec 07 - 05:00 PM (#2213369) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Doc John The Three Butchers, Banks of Sweet Dundee Doc John |
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11 Dec 07 - 05:05 PM (#2213371) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Melissa I guess I always thought 'little girl' was up to murderous ructions "In The Pines"? "Long Black Veil"...Indirect, but she sure played a part in the guy being hanged. |
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11 Dec 07 - 05:11 PM (#2213374) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: McGrath of Harlow Ah, but he got away from Captain Farrell, in spite of that business with the pistols, Kitty, so sporting Jenny's little trick didn't work out, and he didn't actually get killed. |
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11 Dec 07 - 07:05 PM (#2213457) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Bonnie Shaljean Lucky for the guy in Sovay Sovay that he didn't give her that ring or he'd be another statistic on here. |
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11 Dec 07 - 09:13 PM (#2213522) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Joe_F Queen Eleanor's Confession (Child 156) Ballads in which a woman indirectly causes a man's death include McPherson's Lament (throws a blanket over him) & Child Owlet (frames him for attempted rape). |
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11 Dec 07 - 09:18 PM (#2213526) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Beer Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts by Bob Dylan |
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11 Dec 07 - 09:46 PM (#2213544) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Beer Never heard that song (Fanny Blair) before Bonnie. Thanks. |
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11 Dec 07 - 11:37 PM (#2213592) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Bonecruncher Guest Leenia Life expectancy in earlier centuries was NOT neccessarily shorter. In my own family history, as well as the histories I have done for others, Many persons died in their sveties or eighties. It is true that many people died young, usually from the childhood diseases such as measles, whooping cough, mumps and chicken pox. Influenza was also a big killer. Consequently, although the AVERAGE age of death appears lower, most people saw out their allotted three score and ten years. Colyn. |
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12 Dec 07 - 06:16 AM (#2213693) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Grab There is no evidence that Barbara Allen or Lord Randall's unnamed lover killed anyone. Barbara Allen, sure. But all three versions of Lord Randall in DT are pretty clear on him being murdered by poison (by his lover in 1 and 3, stepmother in 2). http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=3723 http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=9882 http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=9883 Colyn, as regards "seeing out their 3-score-and-10", in pre-medical times if you'd made it to 40 then odds were fairly good that you'd make old bones. The majority didn't reach 40 though. The stats make this pretty clear, when 10 children was the norm and the average survival rate to reproduction was only a little over 2. Also, those reaching 40 were usually richer; all manual occupations were significantly dangerous, as was warfare (a major source of male mortality for most of history). Graham. |
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12 Dec 07 - 08:12 AM (#2213746) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Jim Carroll 'I don't think he actually starved to death, J C. As I recall it, he just got hungry and beaten, and learned the error of his ways.' Whoops - sorry, you're right Jim Carroll |
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12 Dec 07 - 06:55 PM (#2214138) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Bert Stone Cold Dead in The Market |
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12 Dec 07 - 07:43 PM (#2214164) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Jack Campin Clerk Colven/Colvill (she gives him the world's fastest-acting venereal infection). The Cruel Mother The Laird o Wariston any number of mostly-forgotten execution broadsides (I rather like the ghoulish ones about Mary McKinnon, the prostitute hanged for a fatal stabbing in Edinburgh in 1839) The Black Freighter (from The Threepenny Opera) Puccini's Turandot (and probably quite a lot of other operas) There must be some great Indian songs about Phoolan Devi. |
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12 Dec 07 - 10:20 PM (#2214224) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Rowan There is a wonderful poem by Thomas Hardy about a woman whose husband who comes home drunk each night and beats her, is sewn up into a blanket so he starves to death. While I note the subsequent corrections, I'm reminded of the fate of a bloke in East Gippsland. There are lots of sheep there and one particular bloke did a lot of work for the sheep cockies round about; he regularly came home drunk and ripped into his wife, beating her up. She took it for years and then, one night, snapped. One of the jobs in sheep country is "marking the lambs", involving drafting them onto a rotating table with up to five positions, with one task for each position. Vaccinating, drenching, tailing (removing tails), and castrating are the usual tasks done in "marking". Tailing and castrating may be done with a knife but are usually done with a small. tightly elastic ring that is fitted over the tail or scrotum; it rather painlessly cuts of the blood supply and the distal bit withers without loss of blood and drops off after a few days. The rings are spread with a spreader known as an elastrator, the tail or scrotum is inserted and the elastrator removed. Everyone in sheep country has their own elastrator. No prizes for guessing his fate. Gives new meaning to the phrase "ringing endorsement". By the time he woke up in the morning it was too late, even though he hightailed it down to the doctor's to get it removed carefully. Didn't exactly kill him but his testosterone levels and reputation were both rather diminished. Cheers, Rowan |
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13 Dec 07 - 08:32 AM (#2214417) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Snuffy BIDDY MCGRATH I'll tell you a story that will give you all a shock, It's about a double murder on the Ringsend dock. The person in question was young Biddy McGrath She strangled two sailors with the straps of her bra. |
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13 Dec 07 - 09:37 AM (#2214478) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: topical tom Lizzie Borden: http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/lizziebo.htm |
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13 Dec 07 - 10:44 AM (#2214537) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,Young Buchan Willie in The Mother's Malison was killed by his mother who cursed him because he wouldn't stay with her that night. Well, no he wasn't. He was killed by his girlfriend Maggie who forced him to recross the river instead of staying with her. Well, no he wasn't. It turns out that it was Maggie's mother pretending to be Maggie. So that's three women did for him! Or not, in case I get accused of trying to guilt trip them. Obviously he was killed by the river. Which was male. ... because its name was Clyde Swaters! |
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13 Dec 07 - 03:59 PM (#2214741) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Doc John Childe Owlett - although she has him executed rather than doing the job herself. John |
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13 Dec 07 - 10:21 PM (#2214981) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Bonecruncher Following on from Rowan's story about the sheep:- As the ram said as he saw the farmer approaching with the elastic bands - "I Know There'll Never Be Another Ewe". Colyn. |
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14 Dec 07 - 12:44 AM (#2215022) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,Les B. Also contemporary song writer Tom Russell's "Hallie Lonagan," where her drunken lout of a husband stumbles against a butcher knife in her hand and crawls off through the mud, never to return. Great song, especially when done by a full-voiced woman. |
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14 Dec 07 - 12:52 AM (#2215027) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Jon Bartlett I've finally found the words to the song that jumped into my head when I saw this thread. It's called "The Tenant" and is sung to a Child ballad tune (which I can't quite place). Could some kind elf top and tail it to be harvested for inclusion in DT? The Tenant The tenant worked a part time job While her kids were at school. All she could find was assembly line Sittin' on a metal stool Sittin' on a metal stool. The landlord worked out on his yacht, Polishing its brass His cheeks were pink from his tall cool drink. You know, he had a lot of class - His initials were etched in the glass. She picked her kids up after school In a smoking tan Corvair And parked in back near the S.P. tracks And creaked up the apartment stairs, And creaked up the apartment stairs. The landlord walked back to his club And changed into his Gucci shoes And slipped into his black Cadillac To see which properties he'd choose To see which properties he'd choose. Eviction notice on her door Meant pay up quick or go - But she wouldn't pay with the plumbing that way And rain dripping through to the floor. And rain dripping through to the floor. The landlord drove back to his home High up on the hill, Where he took a look at the work of the cook, And sat back to take his fill, And sat back to take his fill. The tenant took her pound of round And mixed it with sauce and bread And a big plate of rice to cut down on the price To keep her and the children fed To keep her and the children fed. The landlord finished with fine aged wine And swaggered to the phone To make him a deal to top an elegant meal If that little tenant was at home If that little tenant was at home. She answered, saying, "You've got the law And the lawyers to see you win. But if you're coming here it's not for love and a beer But to see the shape your building's in To see the shape your building's in." His hands were sweaty as he stood at the door, A cocky grin on his face. When she showed him the sink he didn't look or think His arms tightened 'round her waist His arms tightened 'round her waist She drove an ice-pick into his chest, Blood dripped to the floor. When she saw it spurt from his monogrammed shirt, She stuck him a few times more. She stuck him a few times more. Now she felt bad about her kitchen floor, But her rage was more than fear So she reached for a mop instead of calling a cop - She had better plans for twenty years. She had better plans for the next twenty years. She made a noose and tied him to a caboose, Underneath so he dragged along. He was ground away from Oakland to L.A. - She doesn't think she did it wrong - That's why it' s not a tragic song. By Peter Boyd, from the singing of Ruthie Gorton of LA. I met Ruthie at Lou Curtiss' San Diego Folk Festival one year in the 'seventies, and we did a few gigs together, including a little tour in BC, but I've lost sight of her since. You all may know here as the author of "Voices from the Mountains", a fine song in (and used as a title for) a book by Guy Carawan et al. A fabulous singer! Jon Bartlett |
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14 Dec 07 - 08:14 AM (#2215156) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Bonnie Shaljean WOW Jon, what a brilliant song that is - thanks so much for posting it. Yes, somebody please put it in the DT - a.s.a.p. Do you have any clue as to the Child tune it's sung to, any fragments of words or story to help jog the collective memory? Though there are a large number of good trad tunes you could fit those words to, including some strong bluesy ones. (Can't you just imagine someone like Etta James singing it in a blues style?) And: Can you tell us any more about Peter Boyd? Not a familiar name to me, though I don't live in the US or UK anymore so may be a bit out of touch. Thanks again Jon, a new song, great - you made my day :-) |
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15 Dec 07 - 02:20 AM (#2215770) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Jon Bartlett Bonnie Shaljean, PM me with your phone no.and I'll sing it to you. Jon Bartlwtt |
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15 Dec 07 - 02:55 AM (#2215775) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Jim Carroll Jack Campin has already mentioned my favourite - the wonderful 'Laird O' Wariston'. Prince Robert's mother poisoned him. Young Willie's mother didn't actually kill him, but she caused him to drown in Clyde's Water. Then there are the two who took part in the Burke and Hare murders: (guilty before the fact) Two women there were in the plot; the wife of William Hare, The other named McDougal, and travellers they did snare, They got them to the lodging-house, and when they'd drunken deep, Hare and me, we smothered them as they lay fast asleep. Jim Carroll |
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15 Dec 07 - 02:57 PM (#2216051) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: Jim Carroll Gosforth Tragedy "She ripped him, she stripped him, she tore him in three, Because he had murdered her baby and she" Didn't pull her punches, did she? Likewise, Willie's Fate 1 For Willie's gane o'er yon high, high hill. And doon yon dowie den; For it was there he met a grievious ghost That would fear ten thousand wen. 2. For he's gane doon by Mary kirk. And in by Mary's stile. Wan and weary was the ghost On him that grimly smiled. 3. "Oft hae ye travelled this road, Willy, Oft hae ye travelled and sang; Nor thought what would come of your poor soul When your sinful life was done. 4. Oft hae ye travelled this road, Willy, Your bonny new love tae see. Oft hae ye travelled this road, Willy, Nor thought of pooren me. 5. Oft hae ye travelled this road, Willy, Your bonny new love tae see. But you'll never travel this road again. For this nicht avenged I'll be." 6. Then she has ta'en her perjured love. And reived him gair by gair. And ilka side o' Mary's stile. Of him she hung a share. 7. His father and mither baith made moan. His true love muckle mair; His faither and mither baith made moan. And his new love reived her hair. Jim Carroll |
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18 Dec 07 - 07:09 PM (#2218532) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,.gargoyle ORIGINS - original story-lines???
For graphic detail, KJV - JUDGES Chapter 4 (and retelling in Ch 5)
17. ...Sisera fled away on his feet to the tent of Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite: for there was peace between Jabin the king of Hazor and the house of Heber the Kenite. 18. And Jael went out to meet Sisera, and said unto him, Turn in, my lord, turn in to me; fear not. And when he had turned in unto her into the tent, she covered him with a mantle. 19. And he said unto her, Give me, I pray thee, a little water to drink; for I am thirsty. And she opened a bottle of milk, and gave him drink, and covered him. 20. Again he said unto her, Stand in the door of the tent, and it shall be, when any man doth come and inquire of thee, and say, Is there any man here? that thou shalt say, No. 21. Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died. 22. And, behold, as Barak pursued Sisera, Jael came out to meet him, and said unto him, Come, and I will shew thee the man whom thou seekest. And when he came into her tent, behold, Sisera lay dead, and the nail was in his temples.
Sincerely, |
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18 Dec 07 - 07:11 PM (#2218533) Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men From: GUEST,.gargoyle The above reminds me of Hamlet's mother (no doubt a real B---)
Sincerely, |