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18 Dec 07 - 05:43 PM (#2218458) Subject: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: GUEST,Doug Olsen In the book "100 English Folk Songs", Sharp prints a Wassail song (No. 92) with a great Dorian tune and mostly well-known words, except one verse -- "O Master and Mistress if you are so well pleased / Pray set all on your table, your white bread and your cheese / And put forth your roast beef, your porrops and your pies" -- does anyone know where Sharp found this one? He doesn't say. -- does anyone know what porrops are? The OED doesn't say. Thanks, and Wassail! Doug |
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18 Dec 07 - 05:52 PM (#2218467) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: Rumncoke I always thought it was 'collops' - slices of meat - like cutlets or chops. |
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18 Dec 07 - 05:54 PM (#2218471) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: Peace http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Hymns_and_Carols/wassail_and_wassail_all_over_the_6.htm See the bottom of the linked page. I have no time to check each just now. |
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18 Dec 07 - 06:19 PM (#2218493) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: Anglo Hi Doug, This is the version Sharp took down from Harry Richards (69) of Curry Rivel, Somerset. 6 Jan. 1909. His words (according to Maud Karpeles' "Cecil Sharp's Collection of English Folksongs"), are pretty much the same. Except in v.2, "O maid, O maid, with your glove and your mask," in 101 Sharp replaces "mask" with "mace" to rhyme with "face"; and v.4, "With your roast beef, your porrops and your pin," he replaces "pin" with "pies." Sorry, but my mum never made porrops, so I don't know what they are either. |
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18 Dec 07 - 06:28 PM (#2218505) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: greg stephens Just had a porrop sandwich with a glas of cyder, what's odd about that? They are great with gladsome chutney. |
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18 Dec 07 - 06:30 PM (#2218507) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: Peace Did you call 999? |
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18 Dec 07 - 06:30 PM (#2218509) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: Anglo It's Roud No. 209 in the Roud index. Roud also catalogues a BBC recording from 1952 by Sidney Richards, same place. I would think it would have to be his son or grandson, some close relative. See Here. |
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18 Dec 07 - 06:32 PM (#2218513) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: Anglo Time to eat my Curry. It's lamb, not Rivel. I don't think there are any porrops left in the fridge. But in any case they don't go so well with Shiraz. |
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18 Dec 07 - 06:41 PM (#2218520) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: GUEST,Doug Olsen I'd already googled "porrops" and came up with an inaccessible article from JSTOR about the Wassail Tradition at Curry Rivel. It all comes full circle. Thanks, everyone! doug |
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19 Dec 07 - 05:11 PM (#2219218) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: dick greenhaus Porrop a growth that projects from the lining of mucous membrane, such as the intestine in Japanese people. |
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19 Dec 07 - 06:27 PM (#2219278) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: ClaireBear I resisted that pun yesterday, for the record. And to think I thought we were safely past the window of opportunity! (Hi DOug -- long time no hear) |
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19 Dec 07 - 08:00 PM (#2219333) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: Nerd According to that JSTOR article, which is from the Journal Folklore, Vol. 89, no. 1: "The porrops almost certainly refer to porrets, young leeks or onions." |
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19 Dec 07 - 09:33 PM (#2219379) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: Q (Frank Staplin) Porrop is reminiscent of porret, an old ME word for a young leek or onion, or scallion, as posted by Nerd. Porret is in the Oxford dictionary, with several variant spellings, but not porrop. |
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20 Dec 07 - 10:12 AM (#2219634) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: ClaireBear Brilliant! That word isn't in my Chambers Dictionary, but I didn't think to look it up in my elderly 10-volume Oxford at home. I'll try to remember to do it tonight...and the Century Cyclopedia might have info, too. I'll check in tomorrow if I find anything. |
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22 Dec 07 - 04:30 PM (#2221063) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: GUEST Any chance of getting a copy of the JSTOR article? The website says I have to have an academic affiliation, which I don't. Doug |
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22 Dec 07 - 04:50 PM (#2221072) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: GUEST,Minerva A porrup is a haemoroid! Probably not a terribly tantalising addition to the family meal! |
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22 Dec 07 - 05:20 PM (#2221090) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: Don Firth One needs to be a little careful with some of the words in Sharp's 100 English Folk Songs. There are a number of typos in the book. For example, in "The Unquiet Grave," one verse goes O down in yonder grave, sweetheart,Walking "in yonder grave" makes no sense at all, especially in the context of the rest of the verse (and the song in general). You are not very likely to find "the fairest flower that ever I saw" while walking in a grave. Not exactly what I would call a very good place for a romantic encounter. Yet, many singers, including Joan Baez, have recorded this ballad exactly as it appears in 100 English Folk Songs. Apparently without thinking about what they're singing, but just slavishly following what's printed. Obviously, the line should read O down in yonder grove, sweetheart. . . .I've heard other singers sing it this way (e.g., Andrew Rowan Summers), which makes a lot more sense. I haven't surveyed the whole book, but I have found a number of other typos. I would say that any time you encounter an odd-ball word or two, or a line that doesn't seem to make sense, it's a good idea to research it. If it isn't correct, usually you can judiciously fix it yourself. Or if it is correct, you can learn something you didn't know before. Don Firth |
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22 Dec 07 - 07:30 PM (#2221148) Subject: RE: Wassail Song in Sharp 100 English Songs From: Nerd I agree with Don. In the case of Porrop, it's more likely Sharp didn't know the word Porret at all, and simply wrote what he heard. So one wouldn't expect to find "porrop" as a variant spelling in the OED--it's not a variant spelling, just a transcription error! As for the JSTOR article, I have access from my job, which is at a library. It would be illegal for me to distribute the article to you, using my Library's privileges. Best thing you can do is go to your own local library, where they probably pay the license fee, and print it out there. |