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28 Dec 07 - 03:51 PM (#2223897) Subject: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: GUEST,leeneia For many people, Christmas is over by Dec. 26th, but for my little church it isn't over yet. The past Sunday was the last Sunday of Advent, so we didn't get to sing Christmas music then. We would feel deprived if we didn't get to sing the old favorites sometime, so this Sunday is the day. Our leader asked me to do Silent Night using a guitar, since that was how the carol was first done that awful night that the organ broke down. It is understood that I will lower the key of most songs, and I was doing that, dropping it from B flat to G. [That makes the last note a G, rather low, but that's what men are for.] Silent Night is probably the world's best-loved three chord song. [Yes, I sang it on Christmas Eve, and yes, I cried a little.] But as I was practicing, I decided to experiment a little. I've come up with a variation on verse 2. Instead of playing the good old G,D and C I have heard all my life, I decided to try a rich and mysterious Em on the part where the angels are singing. Like this: G 2.Si-lent night! Ho-ly night! D G Shep-herds quake at the sight; Em G Glo-ries stream from hea-ven a-far, Em G Heaven-ly hosts sing, Al-le-lu-ia. D Em Christ, the Sa-vior, is born! G D G Christ, the Sa-vior, is born! I've been practicing, and my cat loves it. |
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28 Dec 07 - 03:59 PM (#2223904) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Bonnie Shaljean So do I - lovely harmony, Leeneia. It would be great with harp too - |
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28 Dec 07 - 04:04 PM (#2223909) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: PoppaGator "how the carol was first done that awful night that the organ broke down." I don't know the story ~ does everybody else? Can we get a little more detail, perhaps, please? I always like a little relative-minor harmony, too, whenever I can squeeze it in. |
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28 Dec 07 - 04:06 PM (#2223914) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Wesley S I doubt that it was originally sung in B flat if it was written on a guitar. That's just an example of the keyboard mafia trying to steal the song back from the guitar players.So keep up the good fight. I want to think that our group has thrown in an occasional Em too. I'll have to check when I get home. |
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28 Dec 07 - 04:09 PM (#2223916) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: GUEST,leeneia Here's a good link, PoppaGator http://silentnight.web.za/history/index.htm Glad you like it, Bonnie. Harp sounds like a lovely idea. |
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28 Dec 07 - 04:11 PM (#2223918) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: beardedbruce http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/museum/59/gruber.html |
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28 Dec 07 - 04:14 PM (#2223922) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: beardedbruce "Authentic Reason for the Composition of the Christmas Song "Silent Night, Holy Night!" On December 24th in the year 1818 the curate of the newly erected parish-church St. Nicola of Oberndorf, Mr. Joseph Mohr handed over a poem to the deputy organist, Franz Gruber (at that time also teacher at Arnsdorf) with the request to compose a suitable melody for two solo voices with choir and the accompaniment of one guitar. The latter handed his simple compostion over to the musically trained clergyman as requested - an exact copy of the original is attached hereto - his compostion was produced immediately on Christmas Eve with great applause. Mr. Joseph Mohr, the originator of this, and other spiritual poems, died on December 4, 1848, the worthy vicar at Wagrain in Pongau. Franz Gruber, at present choir-conductor and organist at the parish-church of Hallein, who is the third son of a poor linen-weaver, born at Hochburg in the year 1787; after leaving the weaver's loom was apprenticed at the age of 18 to H. Georg Hartdobler, who was parish-organist at Burghausen. After only three months study he attained such proficiency to be able to play the organ at hight mass. In the year 1806 he switched over to teaching and was employed as teacher and curate the following year at the school of Arnsdorf. From there, after the separation due to territorial changes of the suburb of Oberndorf from the town of Laufen, with the approval of his superiors he took up the organist and choir duties at St. Nicola until the year 1829, when he was promoted to the position of a schoolteacher of Berndorf. In the year 1833, a vacancy for a choir-conductor and organist at the parish-church of Hallein was offered to him, which he accepted. Two sons and two daughters of his twelve legitimate children are still alive, all of whom have had a musical education. The eldest son, who is employed as teacher at the royal highschool of Hallein has already submitted several successful compositions. In view of the fact that this Christmas song had reached the Tyrol first by means of a well known man from Zillertal and has appeared since then in a slightly different form in a collection of songs at Leipzig; the originator considers it a favor to be able to enclose the song in its original version. Hallein, 30th December 1854 Franz Gruber, Parish choir-conductor and organist. " |
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28 Dec 07 - 04:14 PM (#2223923) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: GUEST,leeneia Wesley, I agree that B flat is most unlikely for a song done to guitar. Silent Night has a range of an octave plus a third, and that key was probably chosen with an eye to the highest and lowest notes that the average soprano can do. |
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28 Dec 07 - 04:21 PM (#2223927) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Wesley S Those sopranos - you can't live with them and you won't allow you to live without 'em. {proud husband of an alto} |
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28 Dec 07 - 04:23 PM (#2223929) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Big Al Whittle what's unusual about G capoed three? |
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28 Dec 07 - 04:37 PM (#2223937) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Uncle_DaveO It's also possible that the guitar on that occasion, all those years ago, was not tuned EADGBE as we conventionally think of it today. It could be that the instrument, or the strings, or the musical conventions at the time called for a tuning which made Bb a convenient key. Dave Oesterreich |
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28 Dec 07 - 04:41 PM (#2223941) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Wesley S "what's unusual about G capoed three?" That's a good question. Were capos widely used in 1818? |
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28 Dec 07 - 04:41 PM (#2223942) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: PoppaGator "Two sons and two daughters of his twelve legitimate children are still alive, all of whom have had a musical education." "Legitimate" children? What is Franz Gruber trying to say here? And isn't he speaking about himself in the third person? Unless there were additional illegitimate kids, is he bragging that all his offspring were born within the bounds of Holy Matrimony? Weird. Intertesting story, nonetheless. |
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28 Dec 07 - 07:40 PM (#2224039) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Tattie Bogle I would also do it in G from alto choice: the highest note then is a C', just about within my comfort zone. |
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28 Dec 07 - 11:05 PM (#2224106) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: GUEST,leeneia Me, too. "what's unusual about G capoed three?" I don't like the sound of a guitar with a capo on it. It sounds thin and jangly, and the higher the capo, the thinner it seems. |
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28 Dec 07 - 11:51 PM (#2224118) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: KT Leeneia, a few years back, I had the good fortune of spending Christmas in Salzburg. On Christmas Eve, we spent the early part of the evening in Oberndorf, where Silent Night was first performed. It was loaded with tourists, like myself, and very cold and clear and lovely . Standing outside in the bitter cold with at least a thousand other people, I was intrigued by the utter darkness, save for the twinkling stars on that clear night, and the white lights that glowed from the two Christmas trees marking the entry to that tiny historical chapel. Oh yes, there were also loads of lights from the led screens on all the tourists' movie cameras....missing the moment in order to preserve it for later. It was quite remarkable to be there in that very old town in front of that very old chapel hearing that very old song, and surrounded by very new technology ... After Oberndorf, we went back to Salzburg for the Midnight Mass in the huge, ancient cathedral there. At the end of the service, they dimmed the lights, except for the white ones on the two trees on the altar, while a lone guitarist played Silent Night. Though the church was packed with folks from all over the world, you could have heard a pin drop. Enchanting. KT |
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29 Dec 07 - 12:20 AM (#2224121) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: George Papavgeris Leeneia, now just for devilment try an A major 7th instead of the Em in the last chorus... You may not like it, but it sets me tingling. Then again, I have been out of the closet as a harmony slut for a long time now. Have fun - and a happy New Year too. |
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29 Dec 07 - 04:41 AM (#2224165) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Jim Carroll Leeneia: Nice thread; spoiled somewhat by nasty references to 'folk police'. Happy New Year - but if it's what turns you on....... Jim Carroll |
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29 Dec 07 - 05:42 AM (#2224187) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Big Al Whittle Evenin' all! |
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29 Dec 07 - 02:38 PM (#2224473) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive) Tend to agree with Jim, here. Nice thread with an unnecessarily snide title. But if people are really desperate for the folk police to turn up at their door and, erm, chastise them, maybe we could oblige? So anyone want to be recruited into this fine body of men and women? And sort out a constitution and a few rules? And what punishments are appropriate and who to punish? And what weapons to use to beat people with? And what is reasonable force and what constitutes folk police brutality? Like, feel the weight of my folk truncheon? Or would we also need a folk judiciary to keep things fair? After all, we wouldn't want a folk police state, would we? Folk prison, too, maybe? Bit silly really, isn't it? Is it just me, or is the term 'folk police' a pile of shite? Happy new year, Nigel |
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29 Dec 07 - 03:21 PM (#2224509) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: GUEST,leeneia You can relax. The folk police are just a joke. KT, thanks for sharing those beautiful memories. George, I'll try that Amaj7th you spoke of. |
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29 Dec 07 - 05:01 PM (#2224559) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Ron Davies The arrangement for guitar which seems to have been used at the time was also somewhat different in chording and tempo than what we normally sing these days--and if anything, even simpler. Every year my group's Christmas concerts are sponsored by a different embassy. Recently it was the Austrian embassy. So we did an arrangement of Stille Nacht very similar to the original, I understand. Magical--it really did transport you--- one guitar and two voices, as I recall--in front of the packed Kennedy Center Concert Hall. The rest of us just did a second "Schlaf in himmlischer Rueh'" (echo). It really had a flavor of a gently rocking song--and what I might describe as a Tyrolean waltz approach--which I gather would have been close to the original. A small group of us also sang at the embassy a few days before. The ambassador told us about the problems she had had looking for a Christmas tree on 24 December--which was their traditional time to put it up--not before. Also a lot of families evidently have poems which are traditionally recited at the same time. |
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29 Dec 07 - 10:44 PM (#2224692) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: wysiwyg Christmastide goes until Epiphany (12 days after Christmas), and even during Epiphanytide it is not unusual to hear Christmas-themed music at worship. ~Susan |
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30 Dec 07 - 04:40 AM (#2224750) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Big Al Whittle That's it! You're all nicked! |
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30 Dec 07 - 05:50 AM (#2224778) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: GUEST,MikeofNorthumbria (sans cookie) This seasonal song has another very special association. On Christmas Eve 1914, it was being sung by a group of German soldiers in a front- line trench somewhere in France. British troops in the opposite trench joined in. This launched an unofficial "Christmas truce", when soldiers from both sides – depite the disapproval of their commanders - fraternised amicably in no-man's-land. Unfortunately, it didn't last. Wassail! |
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30 Dec 07 - 07:36 AM (#2224818) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: GUEST,Jim Martin There's another thread on this, see: 'Lyr Req:Silent Night 1915' |
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30 Dec 07 - 10:25 PM (#2225247) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Genie I've read - though I can't cite the source at the moment - that the music was composed by Gruber, and first performed, in the key of D. As to the chords and harmony, I neither expect nor desire songs always to be done in the original (or any particular) key or arrangement. That said, the alto harmony that's typically done to Silent Night is, IMO, so gorgeous that I would probably find any other to be less pleasing. I don't always feel that way about the first harmonies I've learned to songs, but in some cases (Silent Night, Amazing Grace, The First Noel, Joy To the World, etc.) I do. |
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31 Dec 07 - 12:20 AM (#2225296) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: GUEST,leeneia 'That's it! You're all nicked!' Weelittledrummer, thanks for the chuckle. Over here, we would have to say that we were Ssnta-ed. Doesn't seem the same, somehow. Ron, thanks for sharing your memories about the Austrian performance. Now I'm intrigued about the subtle difference in meter. |
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31 Dec 07 - 12:29 AM (#2225298) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: GUEST,leeneia See if this page will come up for you http://www.ingeb.org/Lieder/stillena.html then click on 'Satz von Josef Mohr - die fruhest bekannte Melodie' and you will hear a Silent Night you've never heard before [I bet]. The German means 'Theme by Joseph Mohr - the earliest known melody.' ----- This site, the 'ingeb' site, is a folk blockbuster. It has so many songs, there are 9 pages for S alone. It's a good site to have in your Favorites. |
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31 Dec 07 - 06:58 AM (#2225391) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: s&r The story that I heard as a child was that the organ was damaged by mice - OK so it's not true, but it's a lovely story. The reason given is that it was a cold winter, and the mice had been attracted from the fields to the goose grease used to make the leather of the bellows more supple. No organ - so Silent Night was written in desparate haste to perform the same nigh as written. Now who's going to tell me there's no Santa? Or that the tooth fairy is really your Mum? Stu |
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31 Dec 07 - 08:43 PM (#2225890) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Genie s&r, is it definitely not true that the church mice had eaten the bellows of the church's organ? I haven't seen documentation/evidence yet that that was not what happened, only sources that say the organ was not functioning (reason unspecified) or that Mohr asked Grüber to write music for the guitar (reason unspecified). If the mice story is not true, whence its origins? G |
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01 Jan 08 - 12:53 AM (#2225980) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: GUEST,crazy little woman Guys, that song that leeneia linked to is really neat! Copy and paste the link in her last post and listen to it. I've downloaded it. It's in 6/8, but we always do Silent night in 3/4. What's up with that? |
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01 Jan 08 - 05:47 PM (#2226385) Subject: Origins and arrangements of Silent Night From: Genie I actually prefer to play and sing it in 6/8, or at least at a faster tempo than is usually used in churches. Partly because you don't need as much lung capacity that way, but partly because I just think it sounds better. The site leeneia linked to has 3 different nice MIDIs, but they all have the tune that's attributed to Franz Grüber and which story he seems to be corroborating, above. (I wonder if at the time and place, it was considered proper to write about oneself in the 3rd person in documents such as that). Their "Pronunciation Guide" leaves a lot to be desired, IMO, but it's a very useful site. Satz für Orgel von Franz Xaver Gruber, 1855 Dank Bill Egan Satz von Joseph Mohr ~1820, die frühest bekannte Melodie Thanks to Bill Egan* Melodie - Melodie - Nach Franz Xaver Gruber, 1818 (1787-1865) *Same tune as the other two, just a slightly different instrumental arrangement |
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01 Jan 08 - 07:09 PM (#2226412) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: s&r only the links above genie - I believe it Stu |
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01 Jan 08 - 07:29 PM (#2226422) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Genie Quote:[[ WYSIWYG Christmastide goes until Epiphany (12 days after Christmas), and even during Epiphanytide it is not unusual to hear Christmas-themed music at worship.]] Well, that kinda makes more sense than hearing Christmas music before Thanksgiving and then having it stop cold, even in Christian churches, on Dec. 26, dunnit? : ) |
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02 Jan 08 - 09:19 AM (#2226655) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: GUEST,leeneia Well, I think so. Actually, I don't go into stores much, so I don't get bombarded by Christmas music the way others do. So I don't get burned out. Of course, much of the stuff they broadcast nowadays doesn't evoke Christmas much, anyway. Yesterday we had a National Pointless Day party. (It's called that because what is the point of having January 1 be a holday, anyway?) It was at the home of our beloved guitarist. I brought over the projector and the transparencies, and we played and sang quite a bit of music. The 'Christ Child Lullaby', which I found in the DT, was new to everyone and was a big hit. When the idea of singing was first mentioned, the reaction was negative. However, when we played the carols in lower-than-usual keys, several guests left the dining room and crept in to join the singing. I was very pleased. |
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06 Jan 08 - 03:35 PM (#2229831) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: robinia I've always liked the words to "Silent Night" as printed in the Scottish hymnal : Still the night, holy the night Sleeps the world, hid from sight. Mary and Joseph in stable bare Watch o'er the child. beloved and fair. Sleep in heavenly rest, sleep in heavenly rest. Still the night, holy the night, Shepherds first saw the light. Heard resounding clear and strong far and near the angels' song, Christ the redeemer is here ..... Still the night, holy the night, Son of God, oh how bright, Love is smiling from thy face strikes us now the hour of grace, Savior since thoug art born . . . |
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06 Jan 08 - 11:16 PM (#2230103) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: GUEST,leeneia Thank you for sharing those lovely words, Robinia. I like them. |
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07 Jan 08 - 01:21 AM (#2230127) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: robinia oops, third stanza ends of course "since Thou art born. .." |
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07 Jan 08 - 06:04 PM (#2230668) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: GUEST Just the mention of it sounding nice on the harp was reason enough. I sat down at my Heartland harp.... and you are right. It sounds lovely on the harp, with that Em chord. Brilliant! |
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08 Jan 08 - 02:22 AM (#2230910) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Wilfried Schaum And here is the original sheet: Gruber's manuscript easier to read D major! ... and by the way: in former times Christmas was celebrated for three days. On Dec. 25, Christ's love was drunk, next day St John's love, and on the 27th St Stephen's love. In German the old word minne was used for love. |
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08 Jan 08 - 03:00 PM (#2231368) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: GUEST,leeneia Danke sehr, Wilfried. That is certainly different, having the half-note intervals at 'alles schlaeft, einsam wacht.' At least, that's not how we do it in America. I've printed it out to show my friends. We celebrated Christmas on the 24th (mass followed by dinner) the 25th (dinner at a friend's) and on January 1st (hor d'ouevres plus a music session with emphasis on the Magi.) The Christmas season seems like a good time to remember St, John, because of friendship and St Stephen because of charity. Guest, I'm glad to hear that you like my little innovation. (Though I'm sure someone else has thought of it and done it before, sometime, somewhere.) I am all in favor of anything that involves getting out one's instrument. Em, of course, is one the the usual, customary and legitimate chords of the D family. |
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08 Jan 08 - 11:01 PM (#2231723) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Genie Danke, Wilfried! I'd heard over and over that it was composed in the key of D. Nice to have it corroborated. Now, about those church mice ... |
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08 Jan 08 - 11:09 PM (#2231729) Subject: RE: Silent Night - dont tell the folk police From: Genie also interesting that the original version is slightly different from even the German version that we see printed most often. Slight tune variation (modulation), plus the repeat of the last two lines (i.e., "Schlaf-e in himmlischer Ruh" sung 4 times altogether). |
