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29 Jan 08 - 09:54 PM (#2248324) Subject: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: quantock I have been printing out sheet music from PDF files generated by one of the ABC programs (ABC Navigator). These look really great, but there is something else I would like to do that is a bit tricky. So I thought I'd ask all you wonderful Mudcatters if anyone can suggest a good solution. All I want to do is simply add some text notes at the bottom of the page. The music takes up less than half a page, so there is plenty of room. I tried to cut and paste the PDF file into MS Word, but when I pasted it, it no longer looked like music. I guess I would need to convert the PDF to an image file like a GIF or JPG first. I could just scan the printed document to do that, but that seems like a bad way to do it. So anyway, what are your thoughts on the subject? BTW, I'm having a ball playing Pirates on Facebook and throwing bombs back and forth with you folks. Starting to get some Scrabble buddies now too. Cheers, Rob Williams. |
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29 Jan 08 - 10:16 PM (#2248329) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Brendy You don't happen to have 'Photoshop' or the full Adobe Acrobat application installed, Rob? Either of these programmes can edit PDF files, and Acrobat supply a plugin to MS Office for conversion to and from .doc files. Does ABC Navigator give you any other options about saving the file i other formats? I'm not familiar with the app. B. |
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29 Jan 08 - 10:19 PM (#2248331) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Bill D you could do it by resorting to screen captures of the PDF document, thus making a JPG image of IT...then overlaying text with any of several image editors. MWSnap will get you the screen capture. or You could use PDF-Xchange Viewer to type directly onto the document. |
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29 Jan 08 - 10:22 PM (#2248333) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: masato sakurai I think Adobe Acrobat Standard can do it. It says it can "Save Adobe PDF files as Microsoft Word documents, retaining the layout, fonts, formatting, and tables, to facilitate reuse of content." |
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30 Jan 08 - 12:02 AM (#2248373) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: JohnInKansas The full Acrobat program, which is needed to produce PDF files is rather expensive for a once-in-a-while use. Acrobat Standard (list $229 US) is mainly intended for creating pdf files from other kinds of "documents." Adobe does not list "editing pdf documents" as one of its capabilities. It does indicate that you can export as a Word document, which you could edit. You could of course use Acrobat Standard to make a new pdf from the Word document after adding your notes. For full capabilities, inluding direct editing of pdf files for which you do not have the original files, without going to another format, the "Professional" version (list $449 US) is needed. Even Adobe doesn't actually recommend editing pdf files for permanent use. The pdf is used to collect comments, the ORIGINAL files are edited, and a new pdf is made. The person producing the original pdf can choose whether to allow editing, or addition of notes, comments, etc., but the default setup generally results in a "fixed" output that "resists changes." (The options to save a copy or to export as another format can be "turned off" but I don't know how commonly this is done.) Even if one has Acrobat Professional, a pdf that the original creator has not deliberately set up to allow editing may be difficult or impossible to modify as a pdf. The default is to "not allow changes" so you're actually unlikely to find many "editable" pdf files on the web. One of the options is to allow "comments" - which are not visible in the document except to the one adding the comment or to another person who has Acrobat to turn on the "view comments" mode. The "other person" who can see your comments can be limited to the originator of the document so that several people can comment on the same document but can't see comments made by others. Some graphics programs have the ability to extract images from pdf files, and a music score in a pdf would usually be an image, but most such programs will generally ignore text surrounding the image. Photoshop Elements can do this, and I would expect that Photoshop (also too expensive for mere mortals to own) probably can do the same. I'm not inclined to believe that Photoshop can import a "whole" pdf file, but since I can't afford the program I'm too lazy to check it out. Text contained in a pdf file can usually be copied and pasted, as text, to another kind of document. Separate extraction of images and copying/pasting text can easily become "labor intensive." For occasional use, just printing and scanning may actually be the most practical method, and there's little to complain about if it works for you. A method I've used some for adding notes is just to make a Word document with the same title as the pdf, and then try to remember to keep the two together. Put the notes in the separate Word document. If you like, include, in the Word document, a hyperlink that will open the pdf with a click after you read the notes. (Usually the critical info I've been interested in where I've used this method is just the URL for where the pdf came from.) John |
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30 Jan 08 - 12:25 AM (#2248383) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Brendy I have both CS2 and Acrobat Pro 7 John, (I need them for what I do...), and you describe Acrobat's functions to a 'T' Photoshop and Illustrator will give you the option to import certain pages, or indeed, all of it. I would imagine that an ABC generated PDF file would not have too many layers as some PDF's do, so I would imagine Elements (as is the case in PS) should be able to manage it, alright... B. |
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30 Jan 08 - 01:08 AM (#2248392) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: JohnInKansas Elements will extract images from a pdf, but won't import the text. At least in the ver 2 that I have. Since they're up to version 6 or 8 now, that may have changed in newer versions. I've seen quite a few web postings of pdf files that are apparently made by scanning whole pages and then creating the pdf from the scans. In that case, my Elements would get them all, but of course in that form they're not "searchable text" until you run them separately through OCR. The "all images" pdf kind is especially common with product catalogs. I find it sort of a semi-boggle of the brain why anyone advertising a product on the web would NOT include the URL for the posting in the pdf so that I wouldn't have to make notes; but in advertising "cleverness" apparently really does outweigh intelligence. We have Acrobat ver 5 (Standard), which is getting pretty ancient; but our business requirement went away a while ago. We get (I should say "Lin gets" actually) most of the working stuff in the form of actual paper copies from current business associates, and much of the real work is done with archaic things called "pencils." It's amazing how those ancient things actually still work. John |
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30 Jan 08 - 01:31 AM (#2248394) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Joe Offer Rob, what if you add the comments onto the ABC file before converting to PDF? You use W: at the beginning of a line of lyrics - should work for notes, too. -Joe- |
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30 Jan 08 - 04:32 AM (#2248432) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Mick Pearce (MCP) If you have the Postscript processor Ghostscript/GSView installed you can open the pdf in that and ouput pages in various graphics formats - bmp, ps, jpeg, png etc. You can then use a standard graphics program to read the graphics file in and add text. (And if you want to convert it back to pdf you can print it out using something like PDFWriter as a vitual printer that created pdfs. These are both free. There are also free toolkits that let you manipulate pdf files - have a look at xpdf and pdfToolkit, which I think can both convert pdf files to postscript that you can edit in a graphics package. When I converted the DT to abc format, I added the option to output notes at the bottom of the text and this I did in the way Joe suggested in the last post - (mis)use the lyrics W: tag and write the notes on there, putting them after the proper lyrics with some blank W: to separate them. I was using abcm2ps to generate postscript files from them, but if abcNavigator can output lyrics it should do the same thing. Ideally it would be nice if you could specify that the program could optionally print the N: tags out, then you could have the notes properly on N: but still be able to print them with the tune, but I don't think any of the packages have the option (although it would be trivial to implement). Mick |
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30 Jan 08 - 04:43 AM (#2248439) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Liz the Squeak If I want to add verses to the bottom of a half sheet of music, I type them out in a document, leaving half a page worth of space at the top... then feed the music print through the printer so that the verse comes out at the bottom. I've had experiences in editing PDFs that were not fun to watch... LTS |
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30 Jan 08 - 05:33 AM (#2248458) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: treewind Two approaches ... sort of summarizing what's been said already: 1. Put text into the ABC source. This works well if the text is fairly simple and the layout requirements aren't very fancy. The "ABC Plus" standard (as implemented by abcm2ps and any software that uses it as a back end like ABC Navigator) has quite a lot of directives available for controlling text appearance and layout. %%begintext and %%endtext are more useful than W: if the text is non-trivial.2. Convert the PDF into a graphic and import into a Word processor Document. This is the best way when the text and layout dominate. For Mary's song book, we converted the PDFs (actually .PS, but converting between them is easy) of the tunes to 300dpi .PNG graphics files, cropped them and imported into an Open Office word processor document as pictures, along with other illustrations. Note that the OO word processor can export direct to PDF, so if that's the format you want to end up with it's a particularly handy choice of WP. (and it's free!) As John suggests, editing PDF files is not practical. Regard PDF as a final production format, not for work in progress. Anahata |
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30 Jan 08 - 11:38 AM (#2248684) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: pavane The tip from LTS above has a lot to recommend it. Simple and no software involved. I will have a look at my program HARMONY and see if it will work with that (Using the W: lines as above) |
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30 Jan 08 - 12:44 PM (#2248739) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Bill D I'm not sure why my suggestion about PDF Xchange viewer is not being considered. I just now opened a PDF document with some images and text, and typed "added to document" at the bottom of one page, then saved it AS A COPY to be sure, and then REopened it with another PDF viewer, and the added text was right there. This seems like all the original request asked for. "All I want to do is simply add some text notes at the bottom of the page. The music takes up less than half a page, so there is plenty of room. " |
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30 Jan 08 - 05:18 PM (#2248991) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Jim McLean I jsut use Print Screen then paste into a Publisher page where I can crop out the edges. Then use a text box and that's it. |
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30 Jan 08 - 06:09 PM (#2249062) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Andrez Jims comment above works for Macs too. You can take a screen shot of the specific music in the pdf by holding down these keys: command, ctrl, shift and 4. This turns the cursor into a cross that you can drag over the selected text. When you let go of the keys to selection is saved to the clipboard. Then open a new document in Word and choose paste from the edit menu. The selection is then inserted into the Word doc where you can crop and place as desired. Comments are then easily added below the pasted image. If you want to create a pdf again then go to the print menu and print the doc to the desktop as a pdf and you are on your way. The same process works on the PC side too except I cant remember the key combination that copies direct to the clipboard (as opposed to just using the print screen key and then cropping etc in word/publisher) |
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30 Jan 08 - 06:58 PM (#2249114) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Joe Offer Now, Bill, I wouldn't want you thinking that nobody listens to you. I did ignore your first message, but your second message motivated me to download PDF-XCHANGE VIEWER. The Website scared me a bit because they insist on using apostrophes to form plurals; but with your advice, I took a chance and downloaded the software. It does seem to be a very useful product - I especially like the fact that it allows me to fill out PDF forms on my computer, and to save the form once completed. But as for the original problem cited in the first post, I think the best solution is to add to the ABC with W: lines. -Joe- |
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30 Jan 08 - 07:46 PM (#2249136) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Bill D Oh, well...*grin*...I must have missed the careless punctuation in my haste to get the program...(it was recommended in the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup several times) I seldom need to do more than view a PDF, and used Foxit, which comes up VERY fast and is still my default viewer for quick viewing....but Xchange has more features...like the adding text trick.. (one does need to be careful at their page to get the FREE version, unless one of the fancier ones is really needed.) |
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31 Jan 08 - 04:54 AM (#2249349) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Geoff the Duck I haven't looked at the programme Bill D links to, but have recently been playing with a different one which does something similar. I got PDF Expert 4 (or is it Expert PDF?) on a magazine cover disc. It contains two programmes. One is a virtual printer which allows you instead of printing a hard copy of a file onto paper, creates a PDF file. The second programe allows some basic editing of PDF files as long as they are not "security locked" by the producer of the document. It allows you to add text, import new bitmap images and draw/edit vector graphics. It is a bit fiddly to use, but is okay for simple changes to a document. For PDFs which are "locked", it is possible to "print" from Acrobat Reader using the virtual printer, and thereby create a new unlocked PDF. This can change text in the original into a graphic in the new "copy", but did allow me to edit a document I wouldn't otherwise have been able to touch. The Company is http://shop.avanquest.com/uk/. Current version is PDF Expert 5 . which will probably become a dead link when they start selling the next version. Version 5 reckons to do a lot more than version 4. They have downloads for free demo versions of the current product, but I don't know what restrictions they put on them. They also sell one which converts PDFs into Word document format. Quack! Geoff the Duck. |
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31 Jan 08 - 05:00 AM (#2249351) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Geoff the Duck It is also worth remembering that Adobe have Trial versions of the full professional programme. They are 30 day time limited jobs, but claim to be the FULLY FUNCTIONAL version during that time period. If you ever have a big batch of work to do, and time available, it is surprising what you can get done in 30 days. Quack! GtD. |
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31 Jan 08 - 03:00 PM (#2249785) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: quantock Thanks, everyone for all the great ideas. I took another look at the Acrobat Reader I was using (7.0) and found that I could get an image of the portion of the page I wanted by clicking on then camera icon on the toolbar and dragging the mouse over the music to create a box around it. This would drop the image onto the clipboard, and I could then paste it into a MS Word document. Simple and it works great. This is pretty much the same as Andrez suggested in his/her post. I'm also going to try adding the notes to the ABC file as some of you suggested and see if I like that method better. Rob Williams |
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31 Jan 08 - 05:53 PM (#2249935) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: GUEST,Geoff the Duck I've had a look at the programme Bill D found. It does a very different job compared to the one I have been playing with. It certainly seems perfect for the task under discussion as it allows you to add text notes to a PDF file and then save the result as a new PDF. I think I will find uses for it. Quack!1 GtD. |
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31 Jan 08 - 06:32 PM (#2249959) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Bill D great, Geoff! Glad you like it.(and I believe you can use any font on your PC) |
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31 Jan 08 - 06:54 PM (#2249978) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Joe Offer As I understand it, PDF was a proprietary file format that was closely guarded by Adobe - you didn't see non-Adobe programs that could do anything with PDF until just recently, although WordPerfect and a very few (non-Microsoft) programs were able to save (but not edit) files in PDF format. Then Microsoft came up with its own XPS format, which it proposed as an open standard that did more-or-less the same as PDF. Just after Office 2007 was release, Adobe allowed Microsoft Word to save files as PDF. That probably kills the new XPS format, but I suppose Microsoft won't really care because what they really wanted was to get access to PDF. I've been having problems with PDF files lately because recent versions of Adobe Acrobat Reader seem to have the tendence to hang or crash. I'm very happy for Bill's PDF-XCHANGE VIEWER because the program seems to operate very smoothly and isn't the memory hog that Acrobat is. Maybe that software firm should pay Bill some royalties. ....and to think that just a few short years ago, Bill was the last person on earth using Windows 3.1.... -Joe- |
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31 Jan 08 - 07:52 PM (#2250021) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: Bill D LOL, Joe....and I still have the old machine! The gerbils are retired, but I have a foot-treadle....(all I need is an old-style mouse to make 3.1 available) By the way....I was JUST browsing the newsgroup where I find this stuff, and see this posted (noting an update): "PDF-XChange Viewer is an alternative viewer for PDF files that enables you to view and annotate PDF files. You can add text, sticky notes, and other annotations and save them to the file, which will be compatible with the standard Adobe PDF reader. The program also includes a handy loupe tool to zoom in on selected areas of a document, as well as options to extract text and images, export a documents to image formats, and more. PDF-XChange Viewer offers a modern, tabbed interface and an attractive set of features not commonly found in free PDF viewers." Home Page http://www.docu-track.com/home/prod_user/pdfx_viewer/ so maybe those who just downloaded it got the most recent version. |
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01 Feb 08 - 02:31 AM (#2250174) Subject: RE: Tech: Adding text to a PDF of sheet music From: JohnInKansas Adobe released the original PDF Specification as an "open document" before even Adobe had much in the way of PDF programming. You can download the full spec for free, and they offer lots of help to anyone who wants to write programs for it. PDF is a "special purpose" PostScript format, and some license fees may have to be paid to use some few of the PostScript bits that are necessary, or convenient, to do everything with PDF, although I haven't actually checked too deeply into that. The complete manual for using PostScript is also a free downloadable at Adobe. (I bought the original hard copy 'cause I happened to run into it in a bookstore, but my current updated revised version is a download.) Vista users may run into difficulties using pdf. I can't assess how significant they may be. This is because Microsoft, in Vista and in Office 2007 that "goes with Vista" is attempting to push the Microsoft "document exchange format" that is completely different. Office 2007 uses "new" formats for ALL OFFICE FILES based on XML. Microsoft calls it "Open XML" which implies that the "specification" is open, but you probably need .NET32 and XML programming software to use "Open XML" to create programs usefully. As examples, prior Word versions produced documents with binary structure and a .doc file extension and templates were .dot. In Word 2007, documents have XML structure and a .docx file extension. If you want a document to be able to include or run macros, it must have a different .docm file extension. Templates in Word 2007 have a .dotx extension in place of the previous .dot, and if the template is to use macros it must have a separate .dotm file extension. Excel follows similar usage, also having a "Non-XML binary workbook" using .xlsb, and "Macro-enabled add-in" extension .xlam. Other Office 2007 programs have similar "similar but different" file types. The "Microsoft Portable Document format" is called .xps. All Office 2007 programs can export files of all Office 2007 kinds as .xps files. In theory, any computer can download and enable XML "tools" and any browser, with the available add-ons enabled, can read .xps files. Microsoft is making a determined effort to have .xps completely replace .pdf as a universal document exchange format, so Vista may include some "difficulties" for users of programs to create pdf files. I have no evidence as yet that any barriers are intentional; but Microsoft DOES NOT WANT YOU TO USE PDF in Vista or in Office 2007. They DO WANT YOU TO USE .XPS instead. So far as I've found, there is no manual for .xps in any way comparable to the open specifications and manuals for PostScript and PDF that Adobe provides. It's possible that one is somewhere at the Developer Network site, but full access there requires a "membership" that's a few thousand dollars, so I haven't penetrated very far. Non-member limited access is possible, but nothing there can be "saved" easily unless you're a proper card-carrying member. John |