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13 Feb 08 - 06:37 PM (#2261779) Subject: BS: The Story of Stuff From: BK Lick This is pretty darn well done, I think. The Story of Stuff From its extraction through sale, use and disposal, all the stuff in our lives affects communities at home and abroad, yet most of this is hidden from view. The Story of Stuff is a 20-minute, fast-paced, fact-filled look at the underside of our production and consumption patterns. The Story of Stuff exposes the connections between a huge number of environmental and social issues, and calls us together to create a more sustainable and just world. It'll teach you something, it'll make you laugh, and it just may change the way you look at all the stuff in your life forever. |
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13 Feb 08 - 07:12 PM (#2261811) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: number 6 Sorry I don't have time for all this stuff right now. Seems to be way too much stuff all around lately. Thanks anway BKLick .... I'll get around to it later. biLL |
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13 Feb 08 - 09:51 PM (#2261911) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Rapparee I'm busy getting stuff down to St. Vincent de Paul, Goodwill, Salvation Army and places like that. We're trying to keep our stuff to a minimum. |
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14 Feb 08 - 12:25 AM (#2261968) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: katlaughing Thanks, BK, well done, indeed. Too bad it isn't required viewing in schools and businesses. |
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14 Feb 08 - 04:42 AM (#2262045) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Sorcha I've been getting rid of Stuff for the last several years. Only keeping what I must have (cooking, clothes, etc) and the family heirloom stuff for the kids. I keep HOPING that someday they'll have room for it. |
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14 Feb 08 - 05:59 AM (#2262078) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: GUEST,PMB Is it a stuff movie? |
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14 Feb 08 - 07:49 AM (#2262156) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Mr Happy BK Lick, I think the responses on this thread up to now say a lot about some of the content of this video: programmed apathy! I've just watched it & am impressed by the straighforward commonsense approach to the information giving & would strongly recommend its message to be widely distributed to heighten awareness of these critical issues |
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14 Feb 08 - 08:15 AM (#2262167) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Mr Happy .......or perhaps 'classical conditioning!' |
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14 Feb 08 - 08:20 AM (#2262172) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Sorcha Oh, I forgot to mention that my De Stuffing is seriously upsetting the Mr. Is this a guy thing? |
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14 Feb 08 - 08:57 AM (#2262191) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: fat B****rd At last...The Story of a Jazz violinist. |
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14 Feb 08 - 09:31 AM (#2262212) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Mr Happy Looks like they're all happy in theircomfort zones |
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14 Feb 08 - 10:37 AM (#2262236) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: katlaughing Mr. Happy, I don't understand what you are on about? I didn't gush, but I DO think it should be shown in classrooms and businesses all over. And, I abhor the practices which are expounded upon in the movie. I thought it was very well done, perhaps I wasn't clear about that. FWIW, we have done a lot of the things she recommends and have done for years. As a side note, I watched a decorating program on HGTV last night because they did a redo which was totally *green* using paint which was VOC-free, recycled furniture, i.e. antiques, etc., new sustainable flooring made from fast-growing bamboo, beeswax candles, recycled glass vases, all materials used were recyclable and greatly reduced their carbon footprint. We don't shop at the big box places, we pay extra for our meds in order to support the only locally-owned pharmacy (chemist's), our car is 17 years old and still going well, no new furniture ever, literally, what we do buy, of anything, we use up, reuse, pass it on, recycle, etc. So, no apathy here. |
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14 Feb 08 - 11:00 AM (#2262265) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Mr Happy katlaughing, Sorry,I meant the responses other than yours seemed trite & apathetic |
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14 Feb 08 - 11:44 AM (#2262300) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: GUEST,PMB Come on, Signor Felice, if we'd known we were touching your tender spots... we'd have squeezed and twisted. I haven't the attention span to watch movies, though I'm sure it's excellent. As for stuff, once you've got it, it's there; getting rid doesn't help. It just becomes someone else's stuff. Do books count as stuff? If so I'm addicted. |
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14 Feb 08 - 12:01 PM (#2262314) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: katlaughing I think Mr. Happy, those weren't so apathetic, rather quips of wit, so to speak. I think we've got a bunch of the choir here, already.:-) |
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14 Feb 08 - 12:03 PM (#2262320) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Mr Happy I guess most've the 'catters, like you, haven't watched/listened to the discourse on the film, or if they have perhaps enjoy being screwed by the Gov't & big corporations! |
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14 Feb 08 - 05:07 PM (#2262580) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: GUEST,pattyClink I think most 'catters are already aware we need more simplicity and less Stuff in our lives and less desecration of the planet; and are painfully aware we are being screwed by government and big corporations. But I don't know anybody itching to watch a 20-minute sermon on that or any other subject. Why don't you share with us your thoughts on how this new information has transformed your life and we can have a conversation. Or do you just want to keep scolding? |
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14 Feb 08 - 05:54 PM (#2262612) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Q (Frank Staplin) Oh, go stuff yourself! |
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14 Feb 08 - 06:03 PM (#2262626) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Sorcha So, Mr Happy isn't happy? How odd! No, really...not being sarcastic. |
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14 Feb 08 - 07:40 PM (#2262702) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: katlaughing It's really not a sermon, folks and it has really good info near the end, plus the website itself has a lot of great info. Honestly, I wish we could all stand back, take a deep breath and try to be nicer, without taking offence so easily. Seems like no matter how someone first posts about something, someone is immediately angry or sarcastic or whatever about it and then we're off. We are all lovers of music, right? We are all somewhat friends, right? Let's try to remember that and try being a little less touchy, please? Thank you, kat |
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14 Feb 08 - 10:42 PM (#2262788) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Q (Frank Staplin) Yeah. I got a lot of stuff. I love my stuff, deserve my stuff, worked hard for my stuff, I'm gonna keep my stuff and keep getting more stuff. Stuff is the engine of employment. Up with clutter! Give me Macy's, Tiffany, Steuben, Christie's! Doesn't matter what it is, if you like it, buy it, or millions will be out of a job, on the streets, rioting, starving, dying! So stuff it! it's good for us! |
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14 Feb 08 - 10:54 PM (#2262791) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: number 6 Bravo Q! That post was great stuff ! :) biLL |
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15 Feb 08 - 01:07 AM (#2262819) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: The Fooles Troupe I seem to remember that there was a TV show for the young called 'Stuff' or somthing like that a few years ago. Canadian, I think. |
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15 Feb 08 - 05:44 AM (#2262901) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Mr Happy Someone above talked about having a discussion of the video & the issues raised. A little difficult when scarcely anyone seems to have watched it, or perhaps it's the norm of some to comment on 'stuff' without reference, |
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15 Feb 08 - 09:41 AM (#2263041) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: gnu Yes, it does take the stuffing out of one. |
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15 Feb 08 - 09:42 AM (#2263043) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Mr Happy Stuff & nonsense, I call it! 8-) |
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15 Feb 08 - 10:05 AM (#2263069) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Amos I watched the first five minutes and found it sketchy, and meretricious, and a little bit self-righteous. That's why I dodn't watch the rest of it. For one thing I am busy earning enough to keep my Stuff supply chain fully employed. A |
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15 Feb 08 - 10:38 AM (#2263113) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: GUEST,leeneia I'm with you, Amos. She talks too fast, the graphics are ditzy, her clothes are dumb, and the print on the home page is too small, and being sans serif, too hard to read. I'd like to get rid of some of my stuff, but then I get distracted making music... |
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15 Feb 08 - 10:46 AM (#2263118) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: GUEST,PMB I tried to watch it, despite the annoying squeaky voice, but it froze just after she said the government was a tank. I started it again, and it froze again. So it's not as good as Test Match Special, that freezes but recovers a few seconds later. Maybe my mere 2Mb bandwidth wasn't enough. So perhaps you'll explain, in Keynsian terms, what her proposal is to replace the jobs of the billion people who depend on stuff to keep a roof over their heads. |
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15 Feb 08 - 11:23 AM (#2263149) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Mr Happy GUST,PMB Here's what's suggested http://www.storyofstuff.com/anotherway.html |
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15 Feb 08 - 11:43 AM (#2263172) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Mr Happy 'her clothes are dumb,' is relevant? |
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15 Feb 08 - 02:03 PM (#2263315) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Q (Frank Staplin) Good Lord, Mr. Happy! buy local seasonal food"? Nonsense! Here it is February in prairie Canada, and I need un-seasonable, un-local food to nourish myself and to keep my spirits up! Grapes from Chile Cantaloupe from Honduras and Costa Rica Blackberries, strawberries, tomatoes and avocados from Mexico Apples and pears and sweet onions from Washington Potatoes from Idaho Oranges from Texas and China, grapefruit from Texas Mangos from Peru Carrots, lettuce, celery, zuchini, peppers, cauliflower, dates, etc. etc. from California et cetera and so forth! Most of the above either on hand or eaten in the last two weeks. 'Local' potatoes and vegetables long gone from the stores, eaten or gone bad. Frozen stuff often unappetizing. All that is left is dry prairie grass as fodder for the near-starved wild vegetarians. I demand my fresh stuff! |
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15 Feb 08 - 03:52 PM (#2263386) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: katlaughing It's all about looks these days, Mr. Happy...watch who gets the presidential election...it's all going to be based on visual perception...who has eye candy, who doesn't....katshakingheadinironicdespair |
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15 Feb 08 - 04:23 PM (#2263418) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Donuel Ask people what is the stuff that oil is made. They might say it is fossil fuel. But a fossil of what? They might say dinosaur but they would be wrong. Oil is fossilized algea. IT takes a couple hundred million years to form, but thats what that stuff really is. |
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15 Feb 08 - 06:57 PM (#2263507) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Q (Frank Staplin) Eye candy? Yes, who can resist those chipmunk cheeks of McCain! A sure winner with that phiz. (haw!) ____________________________________________ Donuel, you are largely correct. Predominantly single-celled plant and animal critters, microscopic in size. Also pollen, some plant and marine animal tissues, etc. that wash into an anoxic where organics can be presrvedenvironment. The stuff must be buried and subjected to moderate heat and pressure to convert the organic materials into hydrocarbons and express the hydrocarbons and move them to reservoir (porous) rocks from which they can be pumped out. Too much heat and pressuse and the liquid hydrocarbons are converted into dry gas, and in the end, lost. The oil shales and sands are an example of where the hydrocarbons have formed but have not been expressed into reservoir rock, thus must be mined and treated to get the product free of the clay, sand, etc. in which they are bound. Takes a lot of water and tears up the landscape (e. g., the 'tar sands' of Alberta). Still lots left, and new deposits are found with new techniques, but nuclear, geothermal, hydrogen generation, wind and solar are all much less contaminating to the environment. Some energy companies (e. g. Shell) have mounted extensive research programs. |
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15 Feb 08 - 10:07 PM (#2263581) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: GUEST,pattyClink Well, now that I'm not at work, I fired up the video, and I just can't sit through it. I'm sorry. I did read the text material that was posted, thanks, certainly can't argue with any of it but nothing new. Again, if anyone would care to testify about the way they are seriously cutting down their stuff stream, have at it. I would like to hear about ways people have actually gotten some of this going in real life without $14,000 investments in solar panels or even $65 sets of recycle bins. Meanwhile, some good news for Mr. Happy I hope: A leading purveyor of useless crud has fallen on hard times and may be shutting down soon. Hurry in for your last chance to buy a baked-in pie lifter! The House of Vernon |
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16 Feb 08 - 04:43 AM (#2263668) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: treewind "I would like to hear about ways people have actually gotten some of this going in real life without $14,000 investments in solar panels or even $65 sets of recycle bins." I suspect there's a lot more mileage to be gained by not succumbing to the "perceived obsolescence" scam. Like buying a new cellphone or shoes (and TONS of other stuff) every few months just because the old one isn't fashionable any more. And it doesn't do any harm for us to be reminded that commerce controls the government, not the other way round. I'm amazed at some of the postings above. I don't know whether some are joking or not, but certainly they are clearly illustrating how they are part of the problem. Talk about inconvenient truth... It's not too hard to think before plunging into yet another TV-ad-driven or impulse purchase: do I really need this? I don't even watch TV. Anahata |
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16 Feb 08 - 07:23 AM (#2263706) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: GUEST,PMB It matters not a whit whether oil is made by algae, dinosaurs or leprechauns. The point is that it's a huge reservoir of sequestered carbon that we're pumping gleefully into the atmosphere at millions of times the rate at which the world can hide it away again. "Use both sides of the paper" - is that toilet paper she's referring to? Individuals reducing usage of printer paper is crass tokenism. "carry your own mugs"- ?????? The detox stuff is largely crap. The RoHS directive is tripe, and WEE is a catastrophe waiting to happen- it will hit small producers in Europe, not megacorps importing from China. Reducing usage of the car is a great thing, but we are importing the USA to Britain- they've just built a new supermarket close to the town centre here, just far enough out to make it hard to walk to. They've also moved the bus station there, AND THE TOILETS FROM THE INDOOR MARKET! So stallholders have to hold more than their stalls now. They took away the free parking, except for the supermarket's own, which of course is patrolled by clampers. They also diverted the main road to make sure you have to go past the supermarket to get to the town centre. But I still want to know how all the people thrown out of work by reduction of consumption are going to earn a living. It's not that I'm in favour of consumerism, but that you have to have a vision for the whole economy. |
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17 Feb 08 - 09:17 AM (#2264473) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Mr Happy 쳌fBut I still want to know how all the people thrown out of work by reduction of consumption are going to earn a living.쳌f In an attempt to answer your question, a number of factors ought to be examined, including consideration of how people survived prior to being engaged in their current occupations; and also the definition of consumption needs to be clarified. Could you further elucidate on these issues, please? |
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17 Feb 08 - 10:16 AM (#2264502) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: katlaughing Again, if anyone would care to testify about the way they are seriously cutting down their stuff stream, have at it. I would like to hear about ways people have actually gotten some of this going in real life without $14,000 investments in solar panels or even $65 sets of recycle bins. As I said, We don't shop at the big box places, we pay extra for our meds in order to support the only locally-owned pharmacy (chemist's), our car is 17 years old and still going well, no new furniture ever, literally, what we do buy, of anything, we use up, reuse, pass it on, recycle, etc. Those may not seem like much, but they are exactly the kind of measures the video talks about and, added to similar actions by other folks, can add up to make a huge difference. We also didn't pay anything for our recycle bins, which we use; do not cut our grass, instead letting it go to seed for birds, etc; switched to long-lasting lightbulbs about 10 years ago; use canvas shopping bags; buy organic/all natural, etc. whenever possible. It seems to me a person who wants proof of what others are doing maybe can't be bothered to do anything themselves. Denigrating the video seems a sure sign someone doesn't want to change or help out, imo. Knock it all you want, folks, there are truths in there and we are all guilty, as equally as we can all contribute to changing it. |
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17 Feb 08 - 10:48 AM (#2264518) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: John Hardly "But I still want to know how all the people thrown out of work by reduction of consumption are going to earn a living. It's not that I'm in favour of consumerism, but that you have to have a vision for the whole economy." I think the video is a well-produced, excellent converation starter. It has quite a few blind spots. One of them pointed out by PMB. It's so wonderful to think of consuming less. It's been a directive from God to do so ever since God first spoke to man. But if we (forgive the pun) buy into the notion of suddenly stopping our buying habits, millions of people lose their jobs. After the first million or two lose their jobs -- and even by the video's own admission -- we are a population that is now EXTREMELY disconnected from the land... (many of you guy were alive during the depression years *ha ha ha -- li'l age humor*. In the midwest the depression was CONSIDERABLY less impactful because, back in those years, the Midwest's population was VERY connected to the land -- lots of individual farmers AND LOTS of people still growing their own stuff) ...give us the depression caused by a cease-buy and it would be CONSIDERABLY more severe than our first depression (the one from the 20s and 30s -- there's still some debate over whether the 1880s was a depression). That may be fine by many people's standards. Maybe the planet needs to have a severe kill-off of humans. But it doesn't sound too humanitarian in the short-run. And the video wants to think of the government as being by the people, but corporations are ... what? ...things?. No way. Corporations are of and by the people. For the people too. And the same self-interest that spoils government spoils corporations. But they aren't any more evil than government. We just think that there's hope in government as long as we can vote in the people we like... ...trouble with that is...One party builds the government big for its agenda....then loses it way by self-interest...the next party comes along and finds themselves at the helm of a now bigger, more powerful government. For instance, the left currently has a jones to censor talk radio -- to re-institute the "Fairness Doctrine". Great. So you grow the government so that it can squash that dissent...and you're okay as long as you keep your power (and squashing that dissent might help in that regard) ...but history shows us that the pendulum will swing. Usually it is that when the left has its way for too long, the economy suffers from the confiscation from the producers (and when that happens, the unintended consequence -- the poor suffer even more). So when the pendulum swings back the other way, now it is the right in control of a government with the new power of censorship -- a censorship that the left intended to squash the enemy on the right, but now is in the hands of the right. The video also makes some strange assertions -- like implying that trees are not renewable. In fact, the whole video avoids even bringing up that many resources are renewable. Still, I like the video's take on consuming as a lifestyle. In fact, the newer consumption model is strange in that it actually seems to eschew the more permanent. I know because I am in the "future heirlooms" biz. The makers of future heirlooms are really hurting. The new generation of consumers actually favors NOT buying things that will last -- even for household furnishings. No antiques. No worthwhile artwork. In fact, they seem to now want to buy ANYTHING that will tie them down to some decorating style that they can't easily change in a few short years. First it was clothing styles that changed overnight -- so that one must buy new to stay hip. Next the automobile changed every year so you wouldn't keep your old car. Well, now household decor is spinning its wheel MUCH faster than ever before. ...and the thing about happiness declining as consumption rose? God predicted that several thousand years ago. |
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17 Feb 08 - 12:56 PM (#2264608) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Q (Frank Staplin) The note by Katlaughing about letting the grass grow and go to seed- not possible in my city; a bylaw cites a maximum height, moreover the neighbors would ostracize you. The dandelion is more hated than Osama. At the moment, we have a commercial recycling company that comes once a week to pick up paper, glass, metal, and some plastics (no foam) and we pay a monthly fee. The city plans to start pick-up service next year, either fee or tax. One must pay a fee to haul to the dump sites. No way will it be cheap. The city is in the grip of gentrification and remodeling fever; houses are being gutted and rebuilt. Expansion also is strong, with new additions to the city in all directions. Most of the city refuse comes from businesses and construction; much of the recycling by individuals is just a 'feel-good.' Many of the 'green' people fail to realize that the end of consumerism and expansion would mean death for many, mass communal living for huddled masses, destruction of infrastructure, and lifestyles portrayed in the Mad Max films. Some control is necessary, but humans are genetically programmed to consume and increase. |
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18 Feb 08 - 04:03 AM (#2265152) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: GUEST,PMB consideration of how people survived prior to being engaged in their current occupations First, often very badly. Stark poverty including hunger (and I'd like to bet that very few of us have actually ever been hungry) was widespread before the 1940s. Second, there were a lot less of us- the UK population has doubled in the last hundred years or so, the US and China trebled. Third, even when not actually in poverty, people's expectations were much lower. In particular, without domestic appliances, women were normally slaves to housework. As for what I mean by 'consumption' I think it's fairly close to what the video (the bit of it I got to see) means by 'stuff'. You don't need a 4GHz, 2GB RAM computer to do word processing- a 1990s 386 would be perfectly adequate. Most of the power of modern machines is "forced" on us by software bloat and addiction to eye-candy. It's interesting that even Linux suffers from bloat- it used to run happily on a 386 with 16MB of RAM, now mainstream distributions need very nearly the same as Redmond productions. But to keep ticking, industry needs to sell every one of us a new computer, a new car, a new Walkman/MP3 player or equivalent every couple of years, TV screens are now so big that if you aren't interested in the individual pixels you need to watch from across the street, etc. etc. And even when people aren't actually prodcing all this, they are selling it, transporting it, stacking it. So putting on a hair shirt will risk causing mass disruption in the short term- and in the long term we're all dead. It's the tone of individualism about the "stuff" movie that is wrong- headed. It's absolutely true that the planet can't sustain an exponentially expanding population with exponentially increasing expectations. But it's also true that if we want to avoid the total dislocation of society, the change to a sustainable model has to be a planned, mass- based, international movement. Weaselly tricks to make yourself look good by dumping the blame for your damage on others (aka "carbon trading" and similar scams) will only hinder the development of the base of understanding needed. |
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18 Feb 08 - 09:07 PM (#2265850) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: GUEST,leeneia "'her clothes are dumb,' is relevant?'" Yes, it's relevant. Do some reading. Young females in our society are under constant attack - a double-barreled campaign that says 'You must be perfect!' at the same time it says 'You are of no importance!' The narrator of the video is supposed to be an important, informed person, but since she's a youngish female, she's dressed like somebody about to go turn the compost. The message to her is clear: 'You didn't think you MATTERED, did you? You don't think you deserve anything SPECIAL, do you?' [Have you noticed the starlets and models who are showing expensive gowns while their hair looks like they just got out of bed? Same idea: SHE doesn't matter.] Special doesn't have to be expensive. Flair, art, individuality, and flattering color can be accomplished without expense. They also convey that the wearer is an accomplished person who is worth our attention. |
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18 Feb 08 - 10:31 PM (#2265893) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: katlaughing Wow, and here I thought she looked down to earth, no pun intended, sensible and comfy. Still think so, as a matter of fact. |
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19 Feb 08 - 07:42 AM (#2266102) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Mr Happy So you agree that we're all being held to ransom by the big corporations? But I don't feel you to be in favour of doing nothing about it I쳌fm not advocating the total cessation of modern consumerism, rather in favour of limiting the more wasteful & damaging elements of it. People wouldn쳌ft necessarily be thrown out of work but could perhaps be redeployed in producing similar but less harmful items, as some are now such as biodegradable plastics etc |
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19 Feb 08 - 08:06 AM (#2266120) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: GUEST,PMB The problem is, as always, that if anyone does anything about it, they, their family, their neighbours, their community, and their country, will be smashed. They will resist the smashing, and in doing so all principle will be lost. The upshot will be that whoever wins, it will be a shower of psychopaths. At least, that is what has happened every time so far, from Wat Tyler to FARC. Passive resistance doesn't seem to help either, witness Burma. What can be done? Don't ask me, if I knew I'd be running for President of Europe, like my contemporary the Kelly Killer. The lifestyle choice route is a non- starter too, all they'll do is make it impossible, or slot a nice comfortable ethical product into the market to salve your conscience. And it will probably be bogus. For example, the PAT testing rules mean that it's often illegal, and usually risky, to sell or even give away second hand electrical goods, which is why most charity shops won't accept them. Buy organic, if you believe them- how "free range" are the eggs you buy? How can you know? The supply chain is obscure unless you grow the stuff in your own back garden, and subsistence farming isn't an option in cities. I suppose I'm of the opinion that we have little choice or influence. The world will survive. Human society will not necessarily do so. In the worst analysis, the solar system's got about 4 billion years to go, so if we kill everything back to bacteria, "intelligent" life has time for another 2 or 3 tries. Perhaps a quasi- religious movement could generate a new ethical framework, in which discipline is imposed voluntarily. But any structure powerful enough to do that will be a standing temptaion to those who could use that power for their own purposes. |
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19 Feb 08 - 05:11 PM (#2266742) Subject: RE: BS: The Story of Stuff From: Slag You have stuff. I have stuffe`! Actually, I'm looking for the shovel right now to get rid of most of it. Hmmm, maybe eBay. As for heirlooms, my kids have already clucked their tongues at the prospect of having to someday get rid of all this "stuff". So, I will save them the bother. On the big scene, we all want to live and live as comfortably as possible, each doing their own thing. We all need food and big tech makes large populations possible. We are all caught up in a big web of tech and if that web ever goes down you will see the thin veneer of civilization disappear like a morning mist at 10:45! The unintelligent desire for food will trump everything. Have any of you read the book "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy? A little post apocalyptic novel that will haunt you. Well imagined. The story itself has great pathos and the backdrop of collapse is truly chilling. I had an uncle who did small appliance repair during his retirement but gave it up as it was cheaper for people to just toss the old and buy a new! Fins on cars, big ties in, little ties out. Forty pairs of shoes for some (or more). Gotta stay in style. Before the assembly line, quality in workmanship and endurance were the things most sought after. Today it is style and replace-ability as well as function, that is the norm. It seems to me that Mankind is reaching its crescendo. Will there be a coda? Or can we pull it out and add another movement to the opus? How about an andante or largo with a basso ostinato of responsible industry (to carry the musical metaphor a little further :)? Do what you can. Influence those who have the power. Let them know that change is needed. |