Obfuscatory vocabulary.

14 May 99 - 05:37 AM (#78343)
Subject: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: The_one_and_only_Dai

A problem (laughable to old hands, I'm sure).

I just can't bring myself to sing a song if I don't know, for sure, the lyric and all its foibles. Not that I might not change it subsequently, but there you go.

The Watersons used to do a fine rendition of 'A Country Life', with Mike warbling on like a trooper. However, I'd love to 'do' this song, but can't bring myself to do so, and all because I don't know what a 'laylum' is.

Some transcripts have 'layland', which is a fallow field, and also doesn't make any sense in context... Any light to shed on this??

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14 May 99 - 05:44 AM (#78345)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Banjer

No, and while yer at it try working on whatinthehellis OBFUSCATORY....Inquiring, banjo playing minds (not to be confused with normal ones) want to know.....

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14 May 99 - 06:25 AM (#78347)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Harald

Hm, the translation I found in my dictionary (dark) doesn´t seem to fit very properly. But beside of that I feel the same like TOAODai, complicated by being not a native english speaker at all. I can´t understand how most people, even in my surrounding sing songs they don´t understand. Getting worse when we started doing Oro se do beatha baile, with everyone laughing at me when I sat there all evening trying to translate it. But how can one sing a song with political significance and thereby expressing a certain attidute without knowing which attitude it is at all ?! I know, most people only listen to the music completely disregarding the lyrics. This may be alright with silly pop songs, but folk mostly deals with serious topics and I think everyone singing these songs should owe some attention to the lyrics. Of course, that´s up to everyone himself, but disregarding lyrics in folk songs would downgrade them to just music and therefore in my eyes to just something like pop songs. And that´s not what they are.

Greetings, Harald

(ps: Joe Offer, did you notice: I did not abbreviate "something" - especially for you !)

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14 May 99 - 07:48 AM (#78358)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Steve Parkes

In the England, "Leyland" (with an "e") probably refers to a truck (they're now called "LDV", standing for "Leyland Daf Vehicles"; parts are made in factories all over my native Midlands). "Country Life" is a magazine for the Huntin' Shootin' and Fishin' set (or people who think they belong to it). I expect they have their own names for these things in Wales?

Glad to have been able to clear that up for you, Dai.

Steve

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14 May 99 - 08:57 AM (#78368)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: The_one_and_only_Dai

So therefore, the lyric runs:

I like to rise when the sun she rises,
Early in the morning,
I like to hear them small birds singing,
Merrily upon their commercial vehicles,
And hurrah for the life of a green-welly wearer
And a ramble in the Land Rover.

Thanks Steve, you're -er- indispensible.

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14 May 99 - 09:19 AM (#78373)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Tony Burns

Laylum has been explained to me as land lying fallow. It makes sense to me. The birds are out there on the fallow field feasting away on all the things birds like and singing about it.

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14 May 99 - 09:29 AM (#78376)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: MMario

layland, ie: fallow field, makes plenty of sense. the small birds are singing there because:

there is less activity there to scare them away and/or silence them

there is a more diverse cover crop, more insects, more seeds for them to eat, thus attracting them

nesting birds often nested in the fallow fields

MMario

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14 May 99 - 09:34 AM (#78377)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: katlaughing

Obfuscate: to confuse, obscure, bewilder

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14 May 99 - 09:37 AM (#78379)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Steve Parkes

Thanks Dai! That looks quite promising - can you work up the rest?

(Almost) on a serious note, it occurs to me that we don't have flaaow land nowadays, but under the CAP^* we do have set-aside. Anyone find a rhyme for that?

Steve

^*The Common Agricultural Policy, if you live outside Europe.

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14 May 99 - 09:43 AM (#78382)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Steve Parkes

Er ... and we don't have type it slowly, Parkes fallow land, either ...

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14 May 99 - 09:53 AM (#78383)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Jeri

From A Folkie's Dictionary:

"lea (UK, also "ley", "lee") a meadow or cropland. Also "leyland", which may be the origin of the mysterious word "laylum" that is sometimes found in English country folk songs."

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14 May 99 - 09:57 AM (#78384)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: The_one_and_only_Dai

Well done lads, and ta. I can now give forth in confidence...

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14 May 99 - 09:58 AM (#78385)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Steve Parkes

Following up Harald's point (and then I'm gong to stop, honest), It's usually the way with "art" songs that the lyric isn't usually the most important element of the song; it is a vehicle for the voice, which is considered as another instrument. Folk song, generally speaking, is a form of story-telling: the content of the lyric is the most important element, and would still work if you recited the words instead of singing them. You can often find extra syllables in a song, where the tune is alterd or extended to fit. The Blacksmith has an example: I fear the scorching sun may shine and burn his beauty ... In conventional (what a wonderful undertone of sneering and condecension in that word!) music, the extra bit would be dropped: look what happens when a poem that doesn't scan too well (and why should it?). Can't think of an example!

Ok, lecture over!

Steve

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14 May 99 - 10:01 AM (#78386)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: The_one_and_only_Dai

Incidentally Steve, you may wish to examine this blue clicky thing.

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14 May 99 - 10:41 AM (#78394)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: katlaughing

The old leyland turned "set aside" The cultivated fields lie beside; Fallow turning away the man-tide Of progress far and wide.

AArrggghhhhh! Well, you did ask for rhymes!

katlaughing

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14 May 99 - 11:04 AM (#78400)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: The_one_and_only_Dai

I am humbled into silence, Kat.

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14 May 99 - 11:19 AM (#78404)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: katlaughing

Oh, no, Dai, this Kat never "gets anyone's tongue"! Thank you all the same or is that your tongue in cheek I see?

Sorry I didn't put in the breaks command.

kat

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14 May 99 - 11:30 AM (#78411)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: The_one_and_only_Dai

Genuine, Kat, that was 64 minutes elapsed between Steve's post and yours, and yours looks like, good to me.

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14 May 99 - 11:44 AM (#78419)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Bert

Following Jeri's link I think someone needs to write a song entitled "404 Not Found"

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14 May 99 - 03:39 PM (#78490)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: RedFez (inactive)

On an slight different topic...but still obfuscatorily inclined, does anyone know the old Scottish song The Yew Tree? I listen to it over and over and I SWEAR that the singer says "...under fallopian skies...." but that CAN'T be right.....

RedFez

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14 May 99 - 04:04 PM (#78496)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: katlaughing

RedFez, or (Shriner?) could it be "full open" skies? I think your version sounds a lot funnier, though!

O&ODai: thank you very much.

Kat

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15 May 99 - 04:39 AM (#78633)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Mark Cohen

For a song like "Country Life" if you're not sure what all the words mean you can always change a couple of them, although it might change the meaning a tiny bit, too:

I hates to rise when the sun she rises
Earlye in the morning
And I hates to hear the small birds singing
Merrily upon the Leyland
And a pox on the life of a country boy
Who's allergic to the new-mown hay (from Redmond O'Connell)

Oh, bother, that damn Land Rover is still in there. I guess whoever did this knew what it meant.

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15 May 99 - 07:49 PM (#78764)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Richard Bridge

Two things.

Now we know what a "laylum" is, is anyone going to have a go at the chorus from one of the version (I gues smaybe the oldest version) of "The Ram of Derby", which said chorus goes (phonetically - and I have heard variants)

"Laylum, Laylum, Bidefum Laylum Lay".

And so to small birds singing I have heard that sung as "merrily upon his lay" - which I thought was a musical lay or tune.

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16 May 99 - 11:57 AM (#78882)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Sapper_RE

I always thought the line went; I love to hear the sweet birds singing, Merrily across the lea-o! Bob

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16 May 99 - 12:15 PM (#78887)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Art Thieme

"Laylum" is a song by Eric Clapton. Also, in my local gas station's men's room, a brand of condom.

Art

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16 May 99 - 02:46 PM (#78916)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: WyoWoman

Ah, the issue is now un-obfuscated. Ancient brand of condoms. Case closed.

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17 May 99 - 03:41 AM (#79076)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Steve Parkes

Thanks Art - the rest of us obviously aren't old enough to remember them!

Steve



Actually, there's nothing worse than getting a condom obfuscated, is there?

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17 May 99 - 11:32 AM (#79138)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Bert

Art,

I DONT BELEIVE YOU!!!! :-)

Bert.

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17 May 99 - 11:44 AM (#79142)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Art Thieme

I wouldn't lie!

Art

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17 May 99 - 12:33 PM (#79164)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: northfolk/al cholger

Art, I think that may be Lay-Um,(the brand name)

the title of the thread reminds me of an excerpt from "The Compleat Folk Singer" does, "Sesquipedelian terminology obfuscate rumination?"

pretty sure it does....

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18 May 99 - 10:30 PM (#79685)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: bseed(charleskratz)

A bumper sticker I saw today: ESCHEW OBFUSCATION --seedkratz

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26 May 99 - 07:41 PM (#81962)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Susanne (skw)

RedFez - sorry I'm late again, but - in order not to leave you obfuscated for life, may I add that the words in The Yew Tree are 'under the Lothian sky'. Incidentally, the song isn't that old, it was written by Brian McNeill a few years ago, and he says, 'it was one of those songs that write themselves'. I love it. - Susanne

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13 May 02 - 01:05 AM (#709916)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: CapriUni

And what, pray tell, is "Lothian"?

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13 May 02 - 01:14 AM (#709918)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)

Lothian is the region on the south side of the Firth of Forth (Scotland)

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13 May 02 - 02:11 AM (#709937)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Dead Horse

I like to rise when the son he rises,
Quite late in the morning,
I like to shoot them small birds singing,
Merrily upon the set aside
And hurrah for the life of a country gent
And a tumble with the gamekeepers bride.

A colleague told me that a laylum is a sunken lane or track, with all pretty trees and stuff, but I aint too sure myself. Fallow land sounds plausible. As for not sure what you're singing about, try being a landlubber wot gets sea sick on the Woolwich ferry and warbling out shanties all night! Hoist yer clew garnets and stand by yer shank stoppers, all hands to the braces 'cos me pants are falling down!!!

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13 May 02 - 02:27 AM (#709941)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Troll

AVOID AND ESCHEW POMPOUS PROLIXITY.
Bit of thread creep, my Mothers maiden name was "Leland" which is a variant of "Leyland" and Lealand". It's apparently Norman. I haven't a clue as to its' meaning tho.

troll

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13 May 02 - 02:39 AM (#709947)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: GUEST,macca

Can anybody throw in a spanner or other misleading implement in here.... And why not?

Being from Lothian when at least one bit of it was WEST, I wonder why a Yew Tree has anything to do Lothian skies (or fallopian skies for that matter). I don't recall any yew trees around our way, and way back before that a bit, aren't yews traditionally associated with the english longbow? In which case the only connection with any bit of Scottish sky should be the darkening of said skies with the feared and dreaded arrow-storm.... Those English tourists on their package holidays back with Edward the 1 have a lot to answer for.

As you'll gather, I don't know the song at all, but am willing to criticise on the grounds that I don't know the song at all... but then I am a folkie so that's quite natural.

PS, back at the coalface, we even hear the old "I Like to Rise" at our local session Down Under, although many of the participants wouldn't know a laylan/laylun/laylum/leyland/ley-line/lay-down/lay-about from a mangle-wurzle.

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13 May 02 - 03:36 AM (#709966)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Escamillo

Some weeks ago, a gentle Mudcatter revealed what was a mystery for me (and for many others). "Love song" from the movie Sanders of the River (1930), sung by Paul Robeson, included an undecipherable word, and it was impossible to get the lyrics sheet. I love that song so much, that some times I did it in public, daring to mumble (!) the word more or less close to the original, in front of an audience where no English-speaking person was present (I hope).

The word was LILLONGO. It was the name of the (African) character of a woman with whom Robeson's character was in love in the movie. This Mudcatter was a Robeson fan and had watched the movie many times. (Not even a Cambridge graduate would have imagined)

So, when something is impossible, come to the Mudcat. Someone will know.

Un abrazo - Andrés

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13 May 02 - 03:46 AM (#709969)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Haruo

Liland is of course a respelling of Leland [which is what it says on my birth certificate], and I can tell you, Troll, that basically it means "meadowland".

Liland

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13 May 02 - 02:28 PM (#710378)
Subject: Lyr Add: COUNTRY BOY (Parody)
From: Micca

For Mark and anyone else, here is the amended version I use from the DT and with addons

Country Boy
Cat Fox?, Holly Tannen?additional verses by Micca (V3-5 inc)

I hates to rise when the sun she rises
Early in the morning.
I hates to hear them small birds singing
Merrily upon the lyelam
And a pox on the life of a country boy
Who's allergic to the new-mown hay.

I hate larks and I hate thrushes
I hate birds of every size
And when they start their bloody song
I want to poke them in their little eyes
And a pox on the life of a country boy
Who's allergic to the new-mown hay.

We get pollen from trees and grasses
Sticks to skin and sticks to clothes
And it gives me streaming eyes
And green stuff running from my nose
And a pox on the life of a country boy
Who's allergic to the new-mown hay.

I went to see an alternative therapist
Truth is a felt a bit of a prat
she prescribed oil of evening primrose
now I'm bloody allergic to that
And a pox on the life of a country boy
Who's allergic to the new-mown hay.

Acute seasonal rhinitis
is just another fancy name
for this bloody awful condition
but its hay fever just the same
And a pox on the life of a country boy
Who's allergic to the new-mown hay.

In winter when the sky is grey
We sit and watch TV all day
But in summer when the sky is gay
We sit and watch TV all day
And a pox on the life of a country boy
Who's allergic to the new-mown hay

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13 May 02 - 02:59 PM (#710394)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: weepiper

Hi Macca,
It's ok, the yew tree reference is entirely legit. The song is about a tree near Ormiston (East Lothian) which is supposed to be 800 years old or so. There are also two old yew trees in the courtyard of Craigmillar Castle (Edinburgh). I can't think of any in West Lothian offhand!

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13 May 02 - 07:30 PM (#710573)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: GUEST,ozmacca

Oh well, EAST Lothian... that explains it all. Thanks weepiper. AND I get to be the first one to say... Yew'll be sorry.

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13 May 02 - 10:22 PM (#710636)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Troll

Liland, do you have family in South Carolina?

troll

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29 Jan 10 - 08:11 AM (#2824426)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Mr Happy

.........reminds me of singing 'The Wild Rover' in a bar in Tokyo, when I reached the chorus, all the Japanese audience cheered wildly.

Turns out that in their language '..........no more' means 'Have another beer!!'

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29 Jan 10 - 08:41 AM (#2824451)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh

Mr Happy, how did you get to this thread after so long? Did you try for "vocabulary" in the Search/Browse/Filter function, perhaps?

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29 Jan 10 - 08:59 AM (#2824471)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Mr Happy

An Buachaill Caol Dubh,

No, I was curious if RedFez (inactive) had made any more posts

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29 Jan 10 - 09:33 AM (#2824497)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh

Ah - Thanks for satisfying the poor little idle curious!

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29 Jan 10 - 10:29 AM (#2824539)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Young Buchan

The birds were singing in the evergreen hedge; the original words were 'merrily upon the Leylandii Cupressocyparis - but someone tried to cut the bloody thing back.

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29 Jan 10 - 10:57 AM (#2824560)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: GUEST,leeneia

When a good song has some old word that's died a natural death, I change the word. It's the story that's important, and you can't tell a story with words that have no meaning.

I consider this a legit part of the folk process.

In this case, you could easily change 'leyland' to 'fallow' 'empty' or 'resting.'

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29 Jan 10 - 05:51 PM (#2824975)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Dave MacKenzie

Now obfuscatalogical vocabulary is a different matter. Amazing what you can get away with.

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29 Jan 10 - 06:39 PM (#2825021)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: katlaughing

...but someone tried to cut the bloody thing back.

The hedge or the word?**bg**

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29 Jan 10 - 06:42 PM (#2825026)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

Thread 47543. All gone over at least once before.
Country Life

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18 Feb 10 - 08:24 AM (#2842952)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: Howard Jones

Leeneia, it's not an old word which has lost its meaning, it's still in use today. It's meaning may be obscure if you're not involved in agriculture, but the same applies to many words specific to particular activities. Folk song, and our language generally, would be much poorer if we tried to substitute all the words we don't understand - that's what dictionaries are for.

In this particular case, I think much of the problem derives from the original source for "Country Life", which for most people is the Watersons' version. The combination of an unfamilar word, Mike Waterson's broad Yorkshire accent, and slightly unclear diction at that point caused a lot of people to mishear.

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18 Feb 10 - 08:30 AM (#2842960)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: IanC

Thanks, Howard.

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18 Feb 10 - 10:41 AM (#2843119)
Subject: RE: Obfuscatory vocabulary.
From: GUEST,leeneia

I still disagree. There's too much palaver in this world and not enough singing.

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