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21 Mar 08 - 02:14 PM (#2294605) Subject: BS: Ask McCain: Reinstitute draft? From: PoppaGator Somebody should start asking this question and putting the GOP nominee on the spot. He says we should be prepared to be at war for the next century. But right now, there are not enough warm bodies to continue the current folly. Reservists are being cycled back and forth from the Middle East, home again briefly, and then back into the bloodbath again, in some cases ("stop-losses") in violation of their original enlistment contracts. Obviously enough, there are not going to be enough volunteers willing to go kill-or-be-killed for someone else's notion of idealism or patriotism or whatever. Of course, as the economy gets worse and worse and higher education gets further and further out of reach, more and more young people are going to be in a position where they feel the military is their only career option. The absense of other, better, opportunities explains why many current service members enlisted in the first place, especially those who signed up back when they thought it was "peacetime." Now that it is becoming ever clearer that enlistment entails real risk of death and dismemberment, not to mention lifelong psychological trauma for many of those who live long enough to be discharged, can we expect enough volunteers to sustain constant ongoing warfare? Moderators at the upcoming general-election debates NEED to confront McCain with this question, which should be obvious but which has become a sort-of taboo subject. They should ask all/both candidates, of course, but the quesiotn would obviously put greater pressure on the more pro-war contender. |
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21 Mar 08 - 02:16 PM (#2294609) Subject: RE: BS: Ask McCain: Reinstitute draft? From: McGrath of Harlow If there's a recession on the way they won't need a draft to force young people into the armed forces. |
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21 Mar 08 - 02:24 PM (#2294619) Subject: RE: BS: Ask McCain: Reinstitute draft? From: Mrrzy Sorry - misread the title, thought it was Ask McCain - prostitute draft? Maybe a Spitzer idea? |
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21 Mar 08 - 02:34 PM (#2294627) Subject: RE: BS: Ask McCain: Reinstitute draft? From: Amos Well, it would get them off the streets, but can they fight? A |
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21 Mar 08 - 03:55 PM (#2294698) Subject: RE: BS: Ask McCain: Reinstitute draft? From: PoppaGator Times are already hard enough economically to "encourage" enlistment, and have been getting steadily worse for the working poor for quite some time. Nevertheless, recruitment into the US armed forces has become a tougher and tougher sell for several years, and does not promise to become any easier as US involvement in a civil-war quagmire continues. More and more young folks would rather take their chances on the streets stateside than to sign up for a literally life-threatening endeavor. Even in cases where the "underground economy" of illegal commerce is the only alternative to indenturing oneself to Uncle Sam, fewer and fewer young people, even those with the most limited prospects, are willing to be recruited. I really expected more interesting responses. This is a question that no one is asking; am I the only one who wonders why? Amos, I'm especially disappointed in your contribution. Could you clarify who you mean by "them" and "they"? Is there some particular group of young people who you'd just as soon see in uniform, but whose competance as fighters you doubt? |
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21 Mar 08 - 04:14 PM (#2294717) Subject: RE: BS: Ask McCain: Reinstitute draft? From: artbrooks Nobody, including the military, has any interest in reinstating the draft. The Army exceeded its recruiting goals for both the active force and reserves in 2007; so did the Navy and Marine Corps, while the Air Force exactly met theirs. There was about a 5% shortfall in both the Army and Air National Guard, which have never been filled through the draft. McCain has never said that we should be prepared to be at war for the next century. What he has said is that (and this is a paraphrase), as long as soldiers aren't in active combat, there is no more reason that we shouldn't be in Iraq for a hundred years than there is for us to have been in Germany for sixty. |
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21 Mar 08 - 04:23 PM (#2294728) Subject: RE: BS: Ask McCain: Reinstitute draft? From: katlaughing Here's what McCain said about it, two times: The point is it's American casualties. We've go to get American's off the frontlines, have the Iraqis as part of the strategy, take over more and more of the responsibilities, and then I don't think Americans are concerned if we're there for one hundred years or a thousand years or ten thousand years. then, he said, By the way, that reminds me of that "100 year thing". My friends, the war will be over soon. The war, for all intents and purposes, although the insurgency will go on for years and years and years. But it will be handled by the Iraqis, not by us. So...it will be over soon? Mission Accomplished ala Bush? But, apparently we could be there forever! Poppagator, I agree, someone needs to hold his feet to the fire and see what he has to say about the draft. |
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21 Mar 08 - 04:33 PM (#2294736) Subject: RE: BS: Ask McCain: Reinstitute draft? From: Amos Poppa: I was quipping in response to Mrrzy's misinterpretation. On a more serious note, I think he (McCain) should be pinned down on this, among other, real-world consequences of his war-like mentality. The one thing Bush never did was count the cost in broken minds, ruined families, and damaged relations. it was the largest piece of his idiocy that he launched on such amomentous path without reckining the human costs, which is why he appears in human or at least less than fully conscious. ANd it is the same blindness that warmongers everywhere share; they want NO repsonsibility for the pasi and ruionation they cause just because they could not imagine a better answer than violence. A |
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21 Mar 08 - 04:52 PM (#2294747) Subject: RE: BS: Ask McCain: Reinstitute draft? From: McGrath of Harlow Dead Iraqis don't count. "...one hundred years or a thousand years or ten thousand years" - just so long as it's not people with relatives among the voters back home getting killed. Iraq has been devastated, far more so than the nightmare under Saddam. Maybe a million dead, millions driven into exile. Sectarian hatred ignited, women deprived of their rights, one of the oldest Christian communities in the world virtually annihilated. But not to worry - soon we can pull back into our garrisons and sit there for ever while the genocide we set in progress continues under our tutelage. |
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21 Mar 08 - 05:41 PM (#2294773) Subject: RE: BS: Ask McCain: Reinstitute draft? From: PoppaGator Amos, that more like it! Kat & Kevin, you too: right on! I realize that the military doesn't want ever to deal with draftees again. But they need NOT to be burdened with unrealistic/impossible assignments that require more personnel than they can reasonably attract. Hence, the need to pin down any political representative of the war industry on the question of where personnel are going to come from. |
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21 Mar 08 - 06:40 PM (#2294811) Subject: RE: BS: Ask McCain: Reinstitute draft? From: number 6 Congressman Charles Rangel has been promoting the idea of reinstating the draft for a few years now. His reason ... "I truly believe that those who make the decision and those who support the United States going into war would feel more readily the pain that's involved, the sacrifice that's involved, if they thought that the fighting force would include the affluent and those who historically have avoided this great responsibility," Rangel said. "Those who love this country have a patriotic obligation to defend this country," Rangel said. "For those who say the poor fight better, I say give the rich a chance." Under his bill, the draft would apply to men and women ages 18 to 26; exemptions would be granted to allow people to graduate from high school, but college students would have to serve. Anyone who didn't qualify for military service because of impairments would be asked to perform community service. His measure could make members of Congress more reluctant to authorize military action. The Korean War veteran has accused President Bush and some fellow lawmakers of being too eager to go to war. biLL |
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21 Mar 08 - 08:36 PM (#2294888) Subject: RE: BS: Ask McCain: Reinstitute draft? From: McGrath of Harlow Maybe anytime they authorise military action all those who vote for it should be drafted to serve, and a by-election held to replace them. It might make them think a bit harder, and if there's a real need to send the troops in, surely no patriotic politician would be put off voting for it just because he or she would be in the front line along with the others. After all, if it was good enough for Teddy Roosevelt, it should be good enough for his political descendants. |
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21 Mar 08 - 08:37 PM (#2294891) Subject: RE: BS: Ask McCain: Reinstitute draft? From: Donuel I think the plan is to recruit and hand out guns to all the Iraqis and have them fight for the Empire. |
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22 Mar 08 - 08:36 AM (#2295076) Subject: RE: BS: Ask McCain: Reinstitute draft? From: kendall Why did they wait 5 years to start the surge? They are claiming that there is great progress over there...Bullshit! deaths are down from what they were. Is that what constitutes victory? One example, under Hussein, there was electric power 24/7. Now it's 8 hours or less. Millions have been displaced countless thousands have been killed, our own wounded veterans are overwhelming the veteran's hospitals. What the hell does "Mission accomplished" mean? |
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22 Mar 08 - 08:58 AM (#2295085) Subject: RE: BS: Ask McCain: Reinstitute draft? From: Big Mick The surge is the greatest piece of spin I have ever seen. Of course the deaths are down, we have troops all over the damn place. But the minute they are gone, the insurgency will reappear. And the Iraqui's still aren't stepping up with troops of their own, nor are they making the political process necessary to quell the enthusiasm for the insurgency. Paul Bremer visited recently and wouldn't leave the green zone. Mick |