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28 Mar 08 - 01:41 PM (#2299717) Subject: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Amos This article describes a planet-wide movement to have the lights of the homes of America turned off for one hour. "On the project's website, www.earthhour.org, WWF informs that on March 31 2007, when Earth Hour started in Australia, over 2.2 million Sydney residents and over 2,100 businesses turned off the lights for one hour, resulting in a 10.2 percent energy reduction across the city. This year, Earth Hour spread all around the globe and 24 important cities in the world are expected to participate in the action on March 29, at 8 p.m." How about it, folks? That's 8 pm in your local time, tomorrow evening. A |
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28 Mar 08 - 01:44 PM (#2299725) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: irishenglish My wife and I already had plans to turn 'em off Amos, and she sent out an email to all of our friends asking them to do the same! |
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28 Mar 08 - 01:47 PM (#2299734) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Rapparee I'll be asleep, so they'll be off. |
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28 Mar 08 - 01:59 PM (#2299747) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Peace You folks got lights? Sissies . . . . |
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28 Mar 08 - 02:00 PM (#2299749) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Peace However, heck of an idea. Count me in. |
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28 Mar 08 - 02:07 PM (#2299756) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Emma B Ours were off for 19 hours after the gales last week! - does that count? Candles are really quite romantic :) |
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28 Mar 08 - 02:34 PM (#2299773) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Ebbie 8:00 PM- at whose time? Greenwich? Australia? US Eastern? US West Coast? US Alaska? |
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28 Mar 08 - 02:35 PM (#2299776) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: RangerSteve for years, I've been watchin TV in the dark at night, so I guess I've been saving all this time. And I don't even feel self-righteous. I'll keep on doing it. It's nice to know I've been doing my part without even realizing it. |
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28 Mar 08 - 03:02 PM (#2299806) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Amos 8PM YOUR LOCAL TIME. A |
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28 Mar 08 - 04:14 PM (#2299863) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Little Robyn Is it just the lights or power in general? That's peak hour TV and we would miss the To The Manor Born Reunion. But just lights I can manage. NZ is supposed to be doing it and we're a couple of hours ahead of Aus, especially as we're still on daylight saving - 13 hours ahead of Greenwich MT. Robyn |
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28 Mar 08 - 04:20 PM (#2299873) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Liz the Squeak A worthy cause, a worthy suggestion but for one hour? Absolutely pointless. The power stations producing this power don't get switched off, and if they did, it would take far more energy to get them going again than would be saved in the hour of down time. If it makes someone think about how much energy they use and they turn off a few lights or get low energy bulbs, then all well and good, but as a grand gesture, it's pretty pointless. LTS |
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28 Mar 08 - 04:54 PM (#2299907) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: irishenglish Pointless? This is why I'm doing it. "Why are we doing this? If all Where I've Been users turns off their lights for one hour, we can reduce this year's carbon footprint by approximately 22,290,910 pounds. That's equivalent to saving 400,000 trees or preventing 8.4 million pounds of carbon dioxide from entering the atmosphere. WOW!!! What can you do? Turn off your lights! Last year 2.2 million people shut off their lights for one hour to show their awareness towards global warming. If we can help to spread the awareness, we can become a part of a great cause that will help to preserve the earth!" So if this becomes 5 million people this year, then next year becomes more, is it so pointless. All for doing nothing more than the same thing you do when you leave your house for work. It's just an obvious step Liz, just like the first time you found out you could recycle glass or newspapers. Gotta start somewhere. Nowhere in this plan does it suggest power stations shut off as well, you tend to need power at hospitals, and traffic lights etc. This is purely, like not throwing the ketchup bottle in with the regular trash, a very simple, yet beneficial one can do. Not pointless. |
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28 Mar 08 - 05:29 PM (#2299932) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Amos To some degree power stations increase output in response to load and decrease it when load lessens. They can add or subtract generators at need. A |
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28 Mar 08 - 05:39 PM (#2299940) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Emma B At 8pm on the 29th I will be celebrating friend's collective birthdays of 126 years! Well with that many candles.......who needs the electric light |
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28 Mar 08 - 05:46 PM (#2299945) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Beer I'm in. Beer (adrien) |
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28 Mar 08 - 06:22 PM (#2299979) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: GUEST,Chief Chaos Sorry, but with the current administration I'm going to keep the lights on. I'm afraid of what they might try in the dark where I can't seem 'em! |
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28 Mar 08 - 09:53 PM (#2300110) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Sandra in Sydney Chief, maybe you can fill your entire property with candles, indoors & outside. sandra |
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29 Mar 08 - 03:33 AM (#2300193) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Little Robyn OK, we're halfway through our hour here in NZ and I'm trying to write thisw by the light of a singel candle bur ir doesn;t lighy up the keuboard very well. Oh, and we;re watching Audrey, Richard amd Margery on telly - we couldn't miss a classic, could we? Robum Robyn I knew it was there sonewhere. |
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29 Mar 08 - 03:35 AM (#2300194) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Little Robyn OK, I'll tuen off my compuyer mow. Robtn |
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29 Mar 08 - 04:49 AM (#2300210) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: autolycus I asked here recently what temp your thermostat is on where you have one. If everyone swirching off for an hour tonight lowered their thermostat by one degree permanently, that would have a bigger effect Ivor |
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29 Mar 08 - 08:06 AM (#2300273) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: GUEST,KT not logged in Everything will be switched off here. Then I'll power up my legs and go for a walk for that hour. KT |
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29 Mar 08 - 09:44 AM (#2300314) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: The Fooles Troupe "The power stations producing this power don't get switched off, and if they did, it would take far more energy to get them going again than would be saved in the hour of down time." "To some degree power stations increase output in response to load and decrease it when load lessens. They can add or subtract generators at need." In Australia, most power is produced from stations that burn coal. If Everybody cut their usage all the time, it would be a useful saving (I first started using CFLs 20 years ago...) but for JUST ONE HOUR, the COAL HAS ALREADY BEEN BURNT to produce the steam to run the turbines that will spin for that hour BEFORE that hour starts... so the burnt coal and the CO2 are 'wasted'... :-) It's just a stunt, but if it gets enough people thinking and doing something about it, it will be worth it in the long run... Talking about 'waste' - was reading the lid of a tofu box tonight - it says "Finest ingredients, wastefully prepared".... I'm not making this up you know.... :-) |
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29 Mar 08 - 12:10 PM (#2300414) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: topical tom I'm in also. I'll watch the Montreal Canadians play the Toronto Maple Leafs for one hour in the dark. I'm not missing the game if it's still on. Les Canadiens sont là! |
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29 Mar 08 - 12:26 PM (#2300427) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Teribus LTS is quite right, the exercise is pointless, electricity produced for the "grid" cannot be stored. There is a hydro power station in Wales that generates electricity by running water from one lake to another to provide power at peak times. It then uses the electricity produced off-peak to pump the water back up the mountain to the lake it originally came from so that the whole exercise can be repeated next peak period. |
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29 Mar 08 - 02:43 PM (#2300486) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Peace More power to you, my son. |
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29 Mar 08 - 02:55 PM (#2300495) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: gnu A buddy of mine just told me that our street light lights will be turned off for that hour. I like the earth... but, I really don't care for idiots. |
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29 Mar 08 - 03:05 PM (#2300507) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Jeri I'll be up in Maine, so my lights will be out. I don't know how it would go at a song circle though. Lots of people tripping over dogs maybe, or not realizing their glasses are getting empty until too late. |
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29 Mar 08 - 03:18 PM (#2300517) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Peace The impact of this exercise is interesting. One hour in 8,760 hours. That ain't too much as a percentage. If we think an hour is lots, just wait for the crunch. |
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29 Mar 08 - 04:03 PM (#2300550) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: autolycus I started three minutes early. Is that naughty? Ivor |
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29 Mar 08 - 04:43 PM (#2300576) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Alice Anyone going out stargazing? Without city lights, it will be easier. |
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29 Mar 08 - 06:23 PM (#2300650) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Little Robyn So how's it going for you? Or is your computer turned off too? I'm confused - on the news at 8am it was reported that the WWF people were thrilled that the expected 5% saving in Christchurch was actually 15%! And the people came out to see the Cathedral in darkness. As well, in Auckland, the lights were turned out on the Sky Tower (except for the red light on top, so no planes hit it) so obviously there were other NZ cities taking part, not just Christchurch. But in the latest radio news the power companies reckon there was very little saving - 5% in Christchurch and an INCREASE in other cities!!! An overall increase of 1% based on this time last year!!! I don't understand how that could be if so many people were taking part. Is somebody telling porkies? The power companies don't want people to turn things off so they say it's not worth the effort? Robyn |
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29 Mar 08 - 06:58 PM (#2300667) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Amos I have no idea what's behind this confusion of data, Robyn--perhaps they were referring to dollar costs over last year? Or total usage over last year (when the population was lower)? Rather than comparing it, say to last Saturday? WHo knows. A |
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29 Mar 08 - 07:05 PM (#2300673) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: yalleh I did some researching and it turns out that to get the same amount of light out of candles as it does for a typical 60 watt light bulb we would put nearly 20 times more Carbon off gases into the air. How exactly does this reduce our carbon footprint? I would like to do something useful for the environment, I don't think this is really going to help. I bought energy efficient light bulbs and tought myself to drive so that I regularily get 10-25% above the rated fuel rating. I could do a thread on how to do this and we could actually make a difference. OR.... we could all get together and buy catalytic converters for people in China, Mexico, other countries that don't regulate car emissions, this would reduce the NOx and SO2 emissions. NOx and SO2 are 100 times worse for the environment than CO2, this alone would make a bigger difference than everyone turning off all their lights for over a million hours. Sorry for sounding like a prick, I care about the environment and actually want to do something about!!!! |
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29 Mar 08 - 09:46 PM (#2300760) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Amos Energy use dimmed during Earth Hour ABC Online - 1 hour ago Energy authorities say the impact of last night's Earth Hour event was the equivalent of two large power stations being temporarily shut down. |
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29 Mar 08 - 10:01 PM (#2300768) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: GUEST,Dani Well, we did it. What the hell, right? Found that we CAN play cards by candlelight, DON'T need that bathroom light, really, and the email can wait. Just now put computer back on, but without most of the lights that we usually have on this time of night. Nice. Thanks for the tip, Amos. Dani |
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29 Mar 08 - 10:08 PM (#2300772) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Alice Yes, turned off the grow lights over the citrus tree that I usually leave on after sundown. The lights are all turned off. Computer is on battery. |
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29 Mar 08 - 10:09 PM (#2300773) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Alice hmmmm... my neighbor just turned on his porch light and is out there shoveling snow. |
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29 Mar 08 - 10:45 PM (#2300798) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Amos We're about to start ours on the West Coast... A |
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29 Mar 08 - 10:51 PM (#2300802) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: katlaughing We sort of did ours, for two hours, an hour early. I was gone to dinner and all of the lights were out except Rog's laptop. We tend to be pretty frugal anyway with lights. My dad was always yelling at us to turn them out, so I grew up conserving.:-) We have had the long-lasting, low use bulbs for years now. I am more concerned, here, with the lack of everyday recycling. People just don't seem to be doing it as they should. I'm not sure any of our neighbours do. My Rog found me a neat water bottle at the health food store. It's made of corn, biodegrades after 80 days in a landfill, has a built-in filter to get rid of chlorine and is good for up to 90 refills. So, no more plastic water bottles to recycle, which I never liked using, anyway! It's a really neat bottle made by New Wave Enviro. |
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30 Mar 08 - 12:05 AM (#2300840) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: The Fooles Troupe There was a great fus here in Oz about using Beeswax candles in preference to Paraffix wax candles (made from petroleum) - as they allegedly take less energy to produce and help keep the carbon footprint down. But, as far as I can see they will BOTH produce about the same amount of CO2 for the same amount of light... |
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30 Mar 08 - 01:11 AM (#2300864) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Liz the Squeak Swings and roundabouts chaps... swings and roundabouts. The biggest impact would be if we turned off all those things that are left on standby - all those electrical items like video/DVD players, computers, monitors, electric clocks - and if we did it every day. I know I'm just as guilty as the next person of leaving things on standby, but I do try to remember to turn things off when I can, or if I don't need them. Trouble is, more and more equipment is being created with standby as the default function, rather than the good old 'off' mode. My most annoying bugbear are DVD/Video players - if I have a DVD, digital box, video player and satelitte TV box all attached to my TV, why do I need a clock on all of them? Changing the clocks every Spring and Autumn was a complete bind. Last year we acquired a DVD/VHS/Digibox combination which reduced the output considerably and left me with only one electric timepiece to fiddle with. With so many electric appliances designed to do only one function, it's no wonder we're running on high energy useage and no-one ever has enough power sockets. LTS |
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30 Mar 08 - 01:26 AM (#2300866) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: TRUBRIT We did turn the lights out at Sins -- it worked ok except for those of us wimps who needed our words in front of us. |
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30 Mar 08 - 01:29 AM (#2300869) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: The Fooles Troupe "why do I need a clock on all of them?" It might be nice to be able to disable unneeded features, clocks, etc. Many such devices need a clock to be able to turn on and off at preset times, a timer to run for x minutes before shutdown, etc... |
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30 Mar 08 - 01:35 AM (#2300874) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Liz the Squeak But surely those devices have an internal clock? The LCD is only for my benefit and theoretically bears no part in the timing process. Now if my fridge, which needs to be on all the time, had a clock display on the door, I wouldn't need to keep the microwave on to see the time in the kitchen. LTS |
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30 Mar 08 - 04:34 AM (#2300911) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: autolycus i Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: yalleh - PM Date: 29 Mar 08 - 07:05 PM I did some researching and it turns out that to get the same amount of light out of candles as it does for a typical 60 watt light bulb we would put nearly 20 times more Carbon off gases into the air. How exactly does this reduce our carbon footprint? I would like to do something useful for the environment, I don't think this is really going to help. As I said, one thing a lot of us can do is turn down our thermostat where we have one by a degree or more. The winter just gone, I usually had the heating off altogether, and took to wearing a hat around the place, with socks at night. And keeping the fridge as nearly full as possible at all times reduces its consumption of energy. All of this didn't half make a diference to my energy bills. Ivor |
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30 Mar 08 - 08:49 AM (#2300996) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: goatfell myself and my sister Margaret was at a concert last night so our lights were off all night. |
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30 Mar 08 - 09:06 AM (#2301004) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: sian, west wales I 'get' all objections and dismissals, but I do think there's a point to taking part in these things (which I did) as it makes you rethink how you live everyday life. I suspect that 'Catters didn't 'suffer' as much as many might - I just sat around and played a bit of piano, a bit of guitar, sang a bit ... no sweat. But I can think of some people who would get completely traumatized by a no-electric experience. My mum (87) put me on to it, and she and a friend just sat around and chatted for the hour. And I see that Canada's Globe and Mail tried to lighten (no pun intended) helped with a few suggests. sian |
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30 Mar 08 - 09:06 AM (#2301005) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Folk Form # 1 In Bromley, which is just outside London, we had a power cut for over three hours, so does that count? If it doesn't, tough. I like my electricity supply. |
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30 Mar 08 - 10:01 AM (#2301043) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: autolycus RR, p'raps you'd like to pay for mine. :-) Ivor |
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30 Mar 08 - 11:22 AM (#2301095) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Stilly River Sage I forgot. Like Katlaughing, I'm pretty frugal with the lights to begin with. I use fluorescent and some of the low-energy halogen bulbs, I don't think there are any conventional bulbs left here except the one in the fridge, and that's specialized and not on much. I turn lights off as I go through the house, nag the kids "if you're out here, why is your bedroom light still on?" To compensate, I turned the lights off at 11 last night and left them off all night. :) I have some little plastic on/off switches that I plug things into at the power plate, and I turn them on with that instead of with the actual device switch. This is mainly to eliminate the slight hum some things give off, but I suppose I could get more of them and use them with all devices. I don't need the microwave to tell what time it is, I have a clock on the wall for that. SRS |
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30 Mar 08 - 12:21 PM (#2301132) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Alice I think the event was useful. It is what we used call "consciousness raising". |
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30 Mar 08 - 12:35 PM (#2301142) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Doc John I don't mean to be cynical but saving the planet will - as ever - make the rich richer and the poor poorer. In Ireland some years ago people were urged to use less electricity; they complied. And the result? The electricity companies earned less money so they put up the unit price to return their income to the previous value. So eventually customers were paying more for less! Some highly educated idiot recently suggested that supermarkets should charge shoppers to park in their car parks and use the resulting income to pay for home deliveries. Result? When this income has dropped because very few customers park anymore, we'll all have to pay for home deliveries ... and take a day off work waiting for them to arrive. The supermarkets will sell of the car park land. Result: rich,richer and poor, poorer. Lots of lorries too. Doc John |
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30 Mar 08 - 04:49 PM (#2301387) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: SINSULL Doc John, In NYC most supermarkets do not have parking lots and you are prevented from moving the shopping carts from the premises. People walk and carry their groceries. Most people own a personal size shopping cart on wheels to take home large orders. Free delivery is available with the customer expected to tip the delivery man. It is not a big deal. Of course there are markets within walking distance which makes a difference. |
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30 Mar 08 - 08:12 PM (#2301581) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Liz the Squeak If supermarkets weren't so big, they wouldn't need to be so far out of town, and if they weren't so far out of town, they wouldn't need the car parks around them. The solution is to shop locally and boycott the huge 'out of town' shopping centres. Trouble is, there are areas in the UK certainly, where that is simply not possible because the big 'OOT' Supermarket has already blasted the poor little local shop out of the water. If this is the case, then good planning should help in reducing visits: take a neighbour with you so they don't have to drive out there; buy in bulk if possible to reduce number of visits; spread the weight out around the car on the journey home, don't stuff it all in the boot. Shopping villages that encourage the use of the car to get from one end to the other should be banned. There's one near us that is L shaped, built next to a sewage treatment plant and gasometers, with a carpark area that is bigger than the shops. It's quicker, easier, warmer and a lot less smelly to get in your car and hop from shop to shop. There is a bus service but it stops in the middle of the long arm of the L, too far for most people to carry their shopping from the large grocery store at the far end. It positively encourages people to drive from one end to the other, and on days when the prevailing wind is blowing in from the south-east, to not even open the car windows. New housing estates and complexes are being built all over, but planners seem to forget the need for small, local shops. This results in a high population with very few facilities. The Victorian planners built a corner shop into almost every block in my area. Alas, only four out of nine within 5 minutes walk are still functioning businesses. The demise of the local shop has resulted in a more insular behaviour pattern, increased reliance on vehicular transport and more trade for the giant supermarket chains. There are ways to reduce our energy emissions, turning off lights for an hour may be a start, but it's really not going to make that much of a difference right now. Oh, and if they produced a carrier bag that actually lasted until I'd got to the bus stop, more people would consider re-using them. LTS |
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30 Mar 08 - 08:38 PM (#2301596) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Rowan Getting back to the "One hour without lights" notion that started the "Earth Hour", the request was for lighting, not 'power', to be turned off. No 'safety' lighting was suggested to be included but all the 'unnecessary' lighting such as display lights, office lights left on overnight etc. While Melbourne logged a reduction of 10% in the demand on Victoria's power generation, this was argued to be an example of the savings that 'could' be made if everyone acted in a way that conserved and/or minimised their usage. The main notion was that we, as the community, address an issue has been impeding effective action. We have been told for a long time that there is no point acting as an individual in these matters, because it is only collective action that counts. The Earth Hour concept was seen as a way for individuals to collectively contribute their "widow's mite", as the song puts it. Last year and this year, such collective action by individuals at the bottom of the pecking order (with a fair amount of persuasion aimed at those higher up) demonstrated that those individuals can have a serious effect. Reduction of the power demand by 10%, if only for an hour, for the entire state of Victoria would have to be described as "significant". We, individually, can all think of counter-arguments but we can also think of ways to individually minimise out footprint; that's the real point. Cheers, Rowan whose total annual electricity use (according to Country Energy, the supplier) contributes 1.46 tonnes of carbon to the atmosphere, and who went walking in the New England autumn for that hour. |
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30 Mar 08 - 11:29 PM (#2301730) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: katlaughing Good points, Rowan, thanks. Sian, thanks for the link. Great and fun suggestions! |
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31 Mar 08 - 02:57 AM (#2301774) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: The Fooles Troupe "But surely those devices have an internal clock? The LCD is only for my benefit and theoretically bears no part in the timing process." But without an LCD to see what time you had set it to.... :-P |
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31 Mar 08 - 03:01 AM (#2301775) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: The Fooles Troupe BTW, (you have to remember that most of Australia has been on 'water rationing' status - no outside water use!) the best comment I have heard so far was from a comedian who said that he was glad that everybody had turned out their lights in hi street so he could hose his driveway... |
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31 Mar 08 - 05:41 AM (#2301824) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Doc John Supermarkets are, of couse, a public enemy these days. However I do remember those local shops from childhood when my Grandmother used to shop every day. She could: women rarely worked then, even those from the poorer families. Now both partners have to work, not for extras, but just to pay the ever rising bills. So shopping daily is rarely possible. How wonderful was it for the grocer etc to actually serve you rather than pick your supplies yourself from the shelves? Well, fine if you came from the 'right' side of town, were a member of the local Conservative Assocaiation or the Masons: you were given the best. If you came from the council estate you received what was left. I am becoming more and more convinced that green issues are a middle class indulgence and a useful bandwaggon for politicians and the like to jump on. Doc John |
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31 Mar 08 - 06:15 AM (#2301846) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: GUEST,Jim Martin Think what you like about green issues Dr John, but if we don't live a genuinely sustainable life on this planet, we aint got long to go brother! |
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31 Mar 08 - 08:35 AM (#2301913) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: The Fooles Troupe We currently consume resourses at a rate that needs about 5 (FIVE) Earths to be sustainable... |
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31 Mar 08 - 08:52 AM (#2301933) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Liz the Squeak Fooles - my DVD/VHS/Digibox combi unit has the recording information on the TV screen and the recording is fixed by a transmission signal - the LCD clock bears no resemblance to the time displayed on the TV screen. In fact, with the new Digibox (it came free with something), there is no time display and a whole series can be recorded entirely by pressing one button a couple of times. LTS |
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31 Mar 08 - 08:53 AM (#2301934) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Stilly River Sage I am becoming more and more convinced that green issues are a middle class indulgence and a useful bandwaggon for politicians and the like to jump on. He is correct, though. A lot of people are pretty clueless about their impact on things despite sorting their paper, glass, and plastic. It's popular now to be green--and there is a lot of green to be made from it. The single biggest thing that would impact my region of the world now is if they would ban those darned plastic shopping bags. They drift everywhere. I live on a creek, so see them tangled in branches after every big rain. And I'm sure they mess up the wildlife, to say nothing of the aesthetics. I can't use that creek water to water my yard, despite having a pump to use. There is too much chemical runoff from all of the non-organic gardeners upstream, to say nothing of the other junk people dump in their yards or on open ground to avoid having to drive to the drop off point with it. SRS |
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31 Mar 08 - 09:55 AM (#2301980) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Stilly River Sage I distracted myself from the point I had planned to make, that was partially illustrated above by others. Some of the alternate choices as light sources are no better, production and world-impact wise, as turning the lights on. While you wouldn't (I hope) light enough candles to be the equivalent of the light bulb, that candle wasn't produced without any impact. The grocery store is a good place to look at for poor environmental practices, but we created them ourselves (partly). The stock on the shelves, the infinite variety of scents and colors, all of this stuff is purchased by the store wholesale and sold retail and if it doesn't sell it goes to someplace downscale that sells this stuff discounted retail. But they have a lot of stuff, so if they don't sell it, where does it go? What does the world DO with all of the silly lotions and flavors and plastic trinkets that are meaningless and non useful? Between over production on things we don't need instead of making a few practical varieties, we have manufacturers creating stuff then trying to create a need (for their bottom line) and we go for it. We encourage them to keep doing it. SRS |
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31 Mar 08 - 05:54 PM (#2302548) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Rowan I do remember those local shops from childhood when my Grandmother used to shop every day. She could: women rarely worked then, even those from the poorer families. You're a game lad, Doc John, even though your point stands. I take it you really meant that there were few women in the paid workforce. Cheers, Rowan |
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31 Mar 08 - 08:44 PM (#2302731) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: GUEST,Jim Martin Overproduction of crap - what's to be done about it other than global government controls? When will they learn, when it's too late, if that's not already? |
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01 Apr 08 - 10:49 AM (#2303244) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Doc John Sorry Rowan, I did use the word 'work' to mean 'paid employment'. Working (sorry using the word in another sense!) class women did indeed work (= carry out their duties) very hard then: no washing machine, no fridge, coal to haul, a flat iron, no vacuum cleaner, no electricity in many households either ... and probably no other things I can't remember. No wonder women - and men too for that matter - looked worn out in their 30's. Of course the wealthier did have some or most of these things: things which most of us in the West now take for granted. My argument against the green lobby is that the taxes they propose will return us to those times: the rich will be able to afford to pay them but not the poor: 'Rich man in his motor car, poor man on his bike' 'Rich man flies on holiday, poor man stays at home' All together now to the tune of 'Dinah'! Please complete somebody! The young greens don't remember this and, while probably thinking they are heralding a utopia, their ideas are really quite against social justice. I think it was borne out by a couple of photographs in the Guardian recently: one of a girl protesting outside the Drax power station recently with a 'Say No To Coal' T-Shirt. Another from the 70's with a 'Coal Not Dole' T-shirt. Was the recent protester really saying 'throw working people out of work, destroy communities'? We didn't need the greens, we had Thatcher! As I said earlier green issues are to a great extent a middle class indulgence. Doc John |
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01 Apr 08 - 02:30 PM (#2303517) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Donuel I think it will stress the envoirment more than it saves I am thinking of the great increase in birth rates 9 months after the big blackout in the North East. Think of all those extra mouths to feed. |
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01 Apr 08 - 05:16 PM (#2303729) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Rowan The young greens don't remember this and, while probably thinking they are heralding a utopia, their ideas are really quite against social justice. I could get into serious thread drift here but.... I suspect it is in the nature of things that "the young" stir the possum with an uncompromising and very "black and white" view of the world in general and some issues in particular. And that us oldies (chronologically gifted?) who've "seen it all before", especially if they/we belong to the group that says "been there, done that, bought the T shirt", gently mock or actively deride their actions. And oldies tend to know,already, more songs about the events while the young are writing ones about their "new" concerns. Both groups have some strengths (and weaknesses) but society does change a bit here and there and often much of the change is for the better. More of the changes would be 'better' and more productive if more of us engaged actively in the discussions and wrote better songs. Which is why I like this aspect of Mudcat. Even though I'm hopeless at writing. Cheers, Rowan |
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27 Mar 09 - 02:17 PM (#2598719) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: irishenglish Refresh-this is tomorrow folks between 8:30 and 9:30 pm wherever you are. Question is, whats the protocol when you are having friends over at that time, as we will tomorrow!! |
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27 Mar 09 - 03:23 PM (#2598772) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: jacqui.c Lots of candlelight? |
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27 Mar 09 - 03:45 PM (#2598789) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: irishenglish LOL, guess so jacqui! |
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27 Mar 09 - 06:43 PM (#2598898) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Tangledwood "a planet-wide movement to have the lights of the homes of America turned off for one hour" OK, I'm happy to support the idea of Americans turning off their lights. |
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30 Mar 09 - 10:49 AM (#2600421) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: SINSULL So I turned my lights out and went outside hoping to see a brilliant sky. Instead I saw lights. I was the only dark house on my street. Anyone else have a comment? |
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30 Mar 09 - 11:12 AM (#2600439) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Mrrzy Anybody got a link to a satellite pic of the phenom? |
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30 Mar 09 - 11:13 AM (#2600440) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Ebbie "a planet-wide movement to have the lights of the homes of America turned off for one hour" OK, I'm happy to support the idea of Americans turning off their lights." Good catch, Tangledwood! |
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30 Mar 09 - 12:58 PM (#2600523) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Liz the Squeak I dozed off and forgot at 8.30, so went to bed at 9 thinking that would save some power... which was fine until some witch with a capital B phoned the house at 12.30am thinking we were a pub. Consequently, I was up for another 3 hours using power I might otherwise not have used... LTS |
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30 Mar 09 - 01:37 PM (#2600559) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: ClaireBear We turned off all the lights (my son even unplugged the night lights) and stumbled up the hill to the hot tub (AKA The Starlight Lounge) for a long, warm soak under the night sky. Luckily the motor didn't kick on while we were out there or it'd have defeated the purpose. As far as I could tell, none of my ranchmates were among the voluntarily lightless, which was a bit of a disappointent as at least one of them is an eco-zealot -- I should perhaps say a vicarious eco-zealot: she seems to expect the rest of the world to change its lifestyle but I don't see much change goin' on at her house. Ah well. Even the lady in whose yard the hot tub resides failed to turn her lights off when she came out and joined us (which made stargazing a bit difficult). Sigh. C |
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30 Mar 09 - 06:51 PM (#2600816) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: SharonA Sorry but my songwriters' group was holding a house concert just then, so we couldn't have them singing in the dark for an hour. At least my apartment lights were out 'cause I wasn't home... :-) |
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30 Mar 09 - 08:34 PM (#2600867) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: Rowan So I turned my lights out and went outside hoping to see a brilliant sky. Instead I saw lights. I was the only dark house on my street. Anyone else have a comment? I fared a bit better, Sins. The girls and I turned off all our lights and the telly and conversed by the light of a candle. I have only one neighbour whose lights would be visible and they were away so the landscape was dark and the stars, normally brilliant, had extra sparkle. The nearest town is about 20km east and normally casts a glow in the sky over that part of the horizon but there was only the faintest wisp of a glow during Earth Hour. And after the Hour, we all went to bed, ready to rise early for Market Sunday. Very pleasant. Cheers, Rowan |
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31 Mar 09 - 11:43 AM (#2601341) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: goatfell i live in a tent |
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01 Apr 09 - 03:15 AM (#2601921) Subject: RE: BS: Lights Out for an Hour, Please... From: mouldy We did it here in Wellington. Played Scrabble by the light of tea lights...not very easy! My son's house overlooks a valley, and quite a few people did seem to switch off. However the stret lights were left on, as the city council had said there was a safety issue. Andrea |