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13 Apr 08 - 08:00 PM (#2314620) Subject: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: the button As much as I love Mike Waterson's version, I was wondering if there were any recordings out there of traditional singers performing this beautiful ballad? Just for comparison, like. I suppose (as a Londoner and an EFDSS member) I could make a pilgrimage to the VWML and have a look, but I'd love to get hold of commercially-available version. |
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13 Apr 08 - 08:14 PM (#2314634) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: GUEST,Nerd The compilation The Muckle Sangs has a version by Betsy Johnston which, if memory serves, is a fragment. I can tell you more about it once I get home and find my copy--but someone will surely beat me to it! |
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13 Apr 08 - 08:23 PM (#2314645) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: the button Cheers, Nerd. Appreciate it. |
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13 Apr 08 - 08:47 PM (#2314668) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: The Borchester Echo Comprehensive listing of Tam Lin recordings on this site includes several source recordings. |
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13 Apr 08 - 09:11 PM (#2314688) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: the button Oooh.... thanks for that Diane. That's a bit of a find. Wonder if any of the source recordings will put a lump in my throat at the "But she held him tight, and she feared him not..." bit, like MW's does, every single time. (If indeed, they have that section). |
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13 Apr 08 - 11:05 PM (#2314783) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: RTim There is also the Child Ballad web site, that lists nearly all recording, etc. of the ballads - Tam Lin being no. 39 se - http://members.chello.nl/r.vandijk2/index.html Tim Radford |
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14 Apr 08 - 01:55 AM (#2314859) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: Nerd Yes, that Tam Lin site is nice, if a bit fannish. (I actually supplied her with about half of the discographic references some ten years ago, hence she writes: "My thanks to Steve Winick for supplying the url as well as much information below." The site Tim put you on to is a bit more comprehensive, and lits the Duncan Williamson recording (which probably counts as a "source singer recording," although I understand Duncan adapted it from his grandmother's version with much recourse to books--so it will depend on what you want to consider a "source singer.") Also listed on Tim's site are two Eddie Butcher recordings. I'd caution that the second of those is a version of "The Stolen Bride," a ballad that exists in Irish and English. Though it's similar to Tam Lin, it's obviously different in many particulars, especially that the person abducted is a young wife and it is her husband who must rescue her. (Very different from a knight being abducted and rescued by a girl he meets AFTER being kidnapped.) You can find modern revival recordings of this song from the group Cran (in English) and from Padraigin Ni Uallachain (in Irish). I don't know if the first is indeed Tam Lin, but I suspect so, as the line about Halloween doesn't occur in Stolen Bride versions that I know of. As for The Muckle Sangs, this CD had a huge booklet that sold separately, and I didn't get it. So there's limited info in the booklet I have, and I don't have time to listen and report back now! But it lists two versions, one by Johnston and the other by Willie Whyte, and together they are seven minutes long--so there's probably a good chunk of the story there, but not as much as in Mike's (which was originally Bert Lloyd's adaptation). |
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14 Apr 08 - 02:48 AM (#2314875) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: Dave Sutherland Not much help I know, but I did once have a fragment of Paddy Tunney performing it back in 1968. The blasted tape ran out just as Janet was explaining to her father what had happened. Still, it prompted me to learn it from the book. |
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14 Apr 08 - 02:53 AM (#2314877) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: Jim Carroll The Butcher's recording is unique, but it's only a small fragment. Can be heard on Hugh Shields Topic (vinyl) album 'Folk Ballads of Donegal and Derry' and European Ethnic Oral Traditions cassette 'Early Ballads in Ireland' (as 'Saturday Night is Halloween Night'). Both of these are out of print unfortunately, but well worth looking out, particularly the latter. Jim Carroll |
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14 Apr 08 - 02:56 AM (#2314878) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: the button Thanks everybody -- I get up (a bit late: eep), and there's all these responses. |
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14 Apr 08 - 03:57 AM (#2314906) Subject: Lyr Add: TAM LIN From: Roberto The button, I would say these four are the recordings of Tam Lin from source singers available, two on CD and two on cassette: Betsy Johnson; Willie Whyte; Duncan Williamson; Eddie Butcher. If you are interested in the two that were on cassette, possibly not available at the moment, PM me, I've put them on CD and I'd send them to you. R Tam Lin Betsy Johnston, on The Muckle Sangs, Classic Scots Ballads, School of Scottish Studies, University of Edinburgh, Greentrax recordings, CDTRAX 9005 Lady Margaret, Lady Margaret Been sewing at a seam She lookèd East, she lookèd West And she saw those merry green woods growing green She saw those merry green woods For she kiltit up her petticoats It's up to them she ran And when she came to those merry green woods She pulled those branches down, my dear She pulled those branches down For it's there she spied a gentleman Coming through the wood by her side: Oh, it's who gave you, oh, leave, my dear To pull those branches down, my dear It's who gave you, oh, leave? For it's onst I could pull those trees, those trees It's onst I could pull those trees It's onst I could pull those trees, those trees All without the leave of you, my dear All without the leave of you For he catched her by the middle small He gently laid her down - It's since you've got your will of me Come tell to me your name, kind sir Come tell to me your name For tomorrow it is new Halloween And the quality's goin to ride You'll pass them by at the old millbridge As they go ridin by, my dear As they go ridin by For the first will be is a white milk-steed And it's then there'll be a black You hold his head, you'll fear no ill He's the father of your child, my dear He's the father of your child For the next will be Is into a snake so large You hold his head, you'll fear no ill He's the father of your child, my dear He's the father of your child For the next will be Is into a naked man You'll throw your mantle all around And cry – You're won, my dear, you're won You're the father of my child *** Tam Lin Willie Whyte, on The Muckle Sangs, Classic Scots Ballads, School of Scottish Studies: University of Edinburgh, Greentrax CDTRAX 9005, 1992 (first issued 1975) Oh for the sea may run dry, and fishes fly And the rocks melt wi' the sun And if ever I prove false unto you It's my heart's blood it may run, ma dear Is It's my heart's blood it may run When I am on the sea, oh pray think of me When I'm far on a foreign shore For it's hold me fast, forget me not I'm the father of your child, ma dear I'm the father of your child For the very first thing that you may turn me into May it be a lion so fierce But hold me fast and fear me not I'm one of God's own make, ma dear I am one of God's own make *** Lady Margaret Duncan Williamson, Put another log in the fire, Songs and tunes from a Scots Traveller, Veteran Tapes VT128 (cassette) O Lady Margaret she sat in her high chamber She was sewing her silken seams For she luikit east and she luikit west And she saw those woods grow green, grow green She saw those woods grow green So picking up her petticoats Beneath a harlin gown And when she came to this merry green wood There she laid them down, down There she laid them down For she had not pulled one nut, one nut One nut nor scarcely three When the highest lord in all the countryside Came a-riding through the trees, the trees Came a-riding through the trees How dare you pull those nuts, those nuts How dare you bend my trees How dare you come to my merry green wood Without the leave of me? But Sir, once on time those woods were mine Without the leave of yours And I can pull thjose nuts, those nuts And I can bend those trees, those trees I can bend those trees So he took her gently by the hand And he gently laid her down And when he had his will of her He rose her up again She said - Now you've had your will of me Come tell to me your name And if a baby I should have I will call it the same He said - I'm an earl's son from Carlyle And I own all those woods so green But I was taken when I was small By an evil fairy queen But tomorrow night is Hallo'een And all those nobles you could see If you will to come to the five mile gate There you could set me free, O free There you could set me free O first they will come some dark, some dark Then they will come some brown But when there comes a milkwhite steed You may pull the rider down, down You may pull its rider down O first I'll turn to a wicked snake And then to a lion so wild But hold me fast and fear me not I may be the father of your child Then I'll turn to a naked man O an angry man I'll be Just throw your mantle over me And then you shall have me free, O free then you shall have me free So that night at the midnight hour Lady Margaret made her way And when she came to the five mile gate She waited patiently, O ly She waited patiently O first there came some dark, some dark Then there came some brown But when there came a milkwhite steed She pulled the rider down, down She pulled the rider down O first he turned to a wicked snake And then to a lion so wild She held him fast for she feared him not He may be the father of her child Then he turned to a naked man O an angry man was he But she threw her mantle over him Then she had him free, O free Then she had him free Then cried a voice of the fairy queen O an angry queen was she Saying - If I had have known yesterday what I know today I'd took out your very heart's blood And put in a heart of clay, of clay And put in a heart of clay So Lady Margaret on the white milk steed Lord William on his dappled grey With a bugle and horn hangin down by the side It's merrily they rode away, away It's merrily they rode away *** Saturday Night Is Hallowe'en Night Eddie Butcher, co. Derry, on Early Ballads in Ireland 1968-1985, edited by Hugh Shields & Tom Munnelly, European Ethnic Oral Traditions, cassette; recording made in 1975 This man lost his wife. And he went to the fairies to see how, what he would dae or how he would get her back again. And they told him: Saturday Night is Hallowe'en night The quality's all to ride And he who has his bride to meet At the Five-Mile Brig he'll bide First you'll meet the black And second you'll meet the brown And catch thew bay by the bridle rein And pull the rider down And he pulled down his ain wife. The fairies, you know, knows a lot. |
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14 Apr 08 - 05:30 AM (#2314942) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: GUEST,Shimrod I heard Bert Lloyd sing his (anglicised) reconstruction of Tam Lyn at Peterborough Folk Club around 40 years ago. It made a deep impression on the young lad I was then. Not surprisingly it was taken up and recorded by several of the notable Revival singers eg. Mike Waterson and Frankie Armstrong, among others. I hear echoes of Bert's tune in the versions sung by the two Scottish trad. singers who sing Tam Lyn on the 'Muckle Sangs' - has anyone else noticed this? Would anyone, who is more musically literate that what I am, care to speculate on whether or not this is where he might have got his tune? |
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14 Apr 08 - 05:59 AM (#2314955) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: Fred McCormick My understanding is that Bert adapted the tune from a version of Let No Man Steal Your Thyme, which Isla Cameron used to sing and recorded on an early 10" Topic LP. Still I Love Him by Isla Cameron and Ewan MacColl. |
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14 Apr 08 - 06:53 AM (#2314975) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: Folk Bloke Wasn't there a Hammer film of this in the early 70s? |
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14 Apr 08 - 07:03 AM (#2314981) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: Brian Peters The tune is quite similar in shape, particularly with respect to its refrain lines, to Martin McDonagh's 'Lady Margaret' (a version of 'Young Hunting') on 'Songs of the Irish Travellers'. I'm sure I've heard it attached to other ballads as well. Possibly one of those generic ballad melodies? |
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14 Apr 08 - 08:38 AM (#2315035) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: Fred McCormick I can't bring Martin McDonagh's tune to mind at the moment. However, it is fairly widely known and turns up as What Put the Blood? that Paddy Doran used to sing, and which Paddy Tunney learned off him. What I meant was that I have a dim recollection of being told, or reading, that Bert rejigged the version of the tune which Isla Cameron sang. Hammer horror version? There were plans to make a movie version in the late 60s/early 70s. However, I can't remember any such film ever being released and always assumed it had been shelved. Maybe the Elfin Queen got to it first. |
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14 Apr 08 - 11:16 PM (#2315825) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: Nerd There was indeed a film, with Ava Gardner as the Faerie Queen, Ian McShane as Tom Lynn, and a supporting cast that included Joanna Lumley (among others). It's the only film Roddy McDowall directed. You can read about it here. |
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15 Apr 08 - 12:07 AM (#2315843) Subject: RE: Tam Lyn: any 'source singer' recordings? From: Art Thieme I had a VHS video of the film. Roddy McDowall introduces the film with a rather long and rambling intro that is more about how beautiful and cool Ava is/was than anything else. I don' think he ever made it clear that this film of his was taken from a classic old ballad. The film's action is updated to modern times---possibly Manhattan high rise night life. It's a real stretch and not very good as I remember it. Kind of fascinating though. I did send a copy of it to Ann Hills and Mark Moss. They named their daughter Tamlynn. (Not sure if my spelling of her name is correct.) I don't think Ann and Mark ever got back to me to say what they thought of it. Then I just forgot about it---until now. Art Thieme |