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14 Apr 08 - 08:59 AM (#2315047) Subject: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: Bobert Seems that there is more and more GUEST sniping and I have a suggetion and that would be that GUESTs be allowed only one "handle" from a given "isp"... This would satisfy GUEST's anonymity by not having them have to register as members while providing a layer of transparancy... Lastly, as many folks know, I have been a fierce supporter of GUESTs going back a long time so this isn't an anti-GUEST thread... It is, however, a thread that attempts to find ways to levfel the playing field between reistered members, who are transparent, and GUESTs, who are not... Bobert |
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14 Apr 08 - 09:13 AM (#2315059) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: Rapparee But what will you do about those members (like a certain guy up in Canada) who has been known to post under different GUEST names, like "Blind Drunk in Blind River" and "Penelope Rutledge" and like that? |
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14 Apr 08 - 10:09 AM (#2315103) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: Sorcha It's all been discussed, suggested, and rejected in the past, Bobert. The powers that be don't want to change anything. |
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14 Apr 08 - 10:19 AM (#2315116) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: artbrooks I thought that what you are suggesting was precisely the policy? That is, Prince Joe regularly tells Guests that they must use a consistent "handle"? I know he tracks these, because I recall him recently suggesting to Guest, GUEST from Minneapolis that she change hers because someone else was using it. Or are you speaking of something different? |
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14 Apr 08 - 10:29 AM (#2315125) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: Peace Perhaps the answer is to be found in publication of the 'member name' from which a troll post originated. Much like photo radar tickets, it assigns no blame. Just deals with the facts. This post came from so-and-sos address (without giving the ISP info). It's entirely possible that some members have people around them who access their Mudcat names from their ISP and say nasty things. Anyway, that's my thought on it. |
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14 Apr 08 - 10:37 AM (#2315134) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: GUEST,PMB That's easily got round. For example, if I were a bit nastier than I am, I could use a dial- up modem, getting a different IP address each time I connect, perhaps using a variety of pay-by-the-minute ISPs, and post any sort of abuse or provocation. Or I could post from a library, or an internet cafe etc. etc. etc. If you really want to be able to police posts, you should restrict posts to members, or at least insist on a valid email address for guests as many blogs do. I suspect it's possibly the will that's lacking, both for the laudable reason that the good atmosphere comes in part from openness, and perhaps for the slightly less praiseworthy reason that some regulars can abuse others anonymously when the spleen takes them. |
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14 Apr 08 - 10:37 AM (#2315136) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: kendall Guests are allowed in the music section. They are not allowed in the BS section. Seems ok to me. |
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14 Apr 08 - 11:13 AM (#2315157) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: pdq GUEST, guest postings seem to have ended with the following: .... Name Subject Posted 1 GUEST,Guest RE: BS: Shannon kidnap a con-trick? 08-Apr-08 - 07:03 PM This was after a stern warning moderator Joe Offer that any such postings after midnight would be deleted. The last three were by a Brit, not Janet Ryan. |
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14 Apr 08 - 12:03 PM (#2315188) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: Bobert As fir Blind River Drunk, why not allow "members" to have limited multiple memeberships??? Like up to 5??? B~ |
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14 Apr 08 - 12:14 PM (#2315201) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: GUEST,lox I don't have any problem with guests or snipers. Check out peaces response to the lurker in the boberts apology thread. Situation diffused -> resume conversation. Total class! I would have dealt with it differently but only because I am much less mature and sensible than peace and would find the lure of chewing somebody up and spitting them out irresistable. The more they tried to compete with me the more my creative juices would start to flow and the more I would begin to enjoy it. Problem with that approach is that it is unpleasant for everyone else. Thankfully there are many here who, like peace, choose the more considerate and effective option so I only have to hold back for a short time before the situation is resolved in my absence. Beyond that, sticks and stones may break my bones ... etc ... and freedom of speech has to be fundamental. |
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14 Apr 08 - 12:14 PM (#2315202) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: dick greenhaus In case anyone doesn't remember, the "Guest" prefix was adopted to keep people from usurping the handles of regular posters. Only reason. |
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14 Apr 08 - 12:41 PM (#2315234) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: Peace Nice of you to say, lox, but I've had my moments--too many of them--and still feel the urge now and then. My tongue bleeds on occasion because I bite it. Also, I have never seen you be unreasonable. You are consistently dependable for reason, intelligence and effective discrimination. Pleasure to read your posts, fyi. |
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14 Apr 08 - 01:28 PM (#2315288) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: the lemonade lady I thought people who didn't log in got called guests, that way the guest can't be pm'd and given a tongue lashing in private. Sal |
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14 Apr 08 - 01:34 PM (#2315294) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: GUEST,lox You just had to take the opposing view eh peace? ;-) |
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14 Apr 08 - 02:23 PM (#2315379) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: John on the Sunset Coast I PMed JO on this subject last week. I belong to several sites aside from Mudcat. They are specific interest sites which generally have no political discussions. They all require a registration procedure. We have so many guests and guestguests; they, as the rest of us, should be required to register, and use a consistent posting name). Several reasons for this come to mind: it allows the rest of us to know what the poster's real agenda is, based upon their body of posts; it's plain courtesy to know whom you're talking to; it, perhaps, will make the poster more civil in discourse.. though not always, obviously; multiple guest posts, using different names from a single individual can skew an argument, making it seem there are many people with a particular point of view, when in reality that isn't the case. If, as someone noted, some people don't want to be PMed, perhaps there could be a way to opt out of that, but still, everyone should be registered. |
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14 Apr 08 - 02:59 PM (#2315418) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: katlaughing Joe's already addressed this with a NEW change which, imo, has cut down, considerably, on the recent bullshit that was going on: Subject: Guest,guest Posting From: Joe Offer - PM Date: 08 Apr 08 - 04:01 PM Although membership is preferred, visitors are welcome to post as guests at Mudcat. However, we require that you use a consistent and distinctive name. The name Guest,guest (such as it is) is already in use. Please pick another name, and use it consistently. Janet Ryan, since the Guest,guest name has been compromised, I'm going to ask you to pick another name - and stick to it. As always, civil behavior is expected of all participants at Mudcat. This holds particularly true for Guest posts, since the lack of a verified identity tends to cause uneasiness on the part of other participants. We've had a problem with Guest posts the last few days, so we will be deleting all Guest posts that show animosity or an attempt to provoke animosity. All posts using the name Guest,guest after midnight tonight, will be deleted. As always, it's best for regular participants to post as members. If you would like to discuss this matter, please contact me by e-mail or personal message. I think a general discussion of this matter in the Forum wouldn't really do any good, but I'm always open to discussing things privately. Thanks. Joe Offer |
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14 Apr 08 - 03:22 PM (#2315445) Subject: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: Genie Sounds like Joe's got it handled as well as can be expected. ISPs are not a reliable way of telling who's posting or whether posts came from the same person. I know it's hard to make sure a "Guest" uses the same handle every time, but at least you should have to use SOME sort of user name when you post. And there's really not much reason for a "Guest" NOT to stick to a consistent name (e.g., curmudgeon44) at least within a particular thread. |
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14 Apr 08 - 03:40 PM (#2315468) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: Bobert Thnaks, Joe... B~ |
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14 Apr 08 - 04:40 PM (#2315530) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: kendall I've never had a problem using my real name, so how could using a made up handle be a problem? |
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14 Apr 08 - 06:17 PM (#2315622) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: skipy What happens if someones surname is "Guest"? Skipy |
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14 Apr 08 - 06:42 PM (#2315643) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: Cllr they have to join and called themselves "skipy" Cllr |
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14 Apr 08 - 06:46 PM (#2315649) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: skipy Seems fair to me! Skipy |
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14 Apr 08 - 07:17 PM (#2315681) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: Jeri If a member logs out to say something trollish as a guest, it probably will get deleted. If a guest or member says something trollish, it will probably get deleted. If a guest with a consistent name says something with which you have a problem, but does so in a civil (although possibly heated) manner, then I guess you have a problem. People believe that pissed off guests are pissed off members who toss their cookie to say something nasty. I just don't think that's happening. I've found that people are, in real life, pretty much like they come across on the internet. If you think someone has integrity here, they've got it elsewhere. If someone is passionate but honest and stands up for their point of view, they are NOT going to log out. In other words, if you're having a knock-down drag-out with a member in a thread, why on earth would they log out? They aren't afraid to piss you off. A guest using a consistent name isn't afraid to piss people off, and the original GUEST,guest sure wasn't. There is NO way to ensure no one else uses a identical guest names though. |
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14 Apr 08 - 07:24 PM (#2315690) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: Big Mick I am speaking on this thread as a long term member and not as one of the Forum Moderators. It is my opinion that one should be a member to post and GUESTs limited to only reading and searching abilities, with the only exception being made for non-members who are requesting a lyric, adding/correcting a lyric, or giving some bit of background or history on a lyric. This could be accomplished a couple of ways, but one would be a separate button for non-members to submit for consideration those very limited items. They would go to a separate page where mod's could check them daily when they are online, with specific guidelines for acceptability. They would then be published. Back to the Forum Moderator role now. I would be happy to do this work (screening posts by non-members), and I know several others that wouldn't mind. The Mudcat has become attractive to spammers and trollers because it has no requirement of membership for posting. I can live with it just fine as it is, but I think there is a way to make it less appealing to spammers/trolls, that wouldn't be too difficult. Having said that, it is Max's to run, and I am committed to running it within the guidelines that HE, and he alone has established. And the old place certainly has weathered all the outrageous slings and aged very well, I would say. All the best, Mick |
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14 Apr 08 - 07:42 PM (#2315706) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: John on the Sunset Coast Hear, Hear, Big Mick! Guests should not post. |
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14 Apr 08 - 07:49 PM (#2315712) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: kendall Membership is free. There is no reason to not join. If the Police, the CIA, or FBI are looking for you, that's your problem. No one can trace you using your handle. |
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14 Apr 08 - 07:51 PM (#2315713) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: Bobert .... or post with a designated isp realted handle... I'm not too worried about guests paying an extra 40 bucks a month to have a second isp, or whatever it costs, in order to poke a few ol' folk singers... But, hey, I don't know the ins and outs... B~ |
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14 Apr 08 - 08:02 PM (#2315723) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: GUEST,J Poindexter "If the Police, the CIA, or FBI are looking for you, that's your problem. No one can trace you using your handle." That is good to know. |
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14 Apr 08 - 08:27 PM (#2315740) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: Jeri I will say the worst people for logging out and going 'guest' are members who are convinced that others are doing it. Just like with most things, the people who do the most harm are the ones most easily hurt. |
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14 Apr 08 - 08:48 PM (#2315752) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: Uncle_DaveO Bobert, you said, .... or post with a designated isp realted handle... By that, do I understand you to mean something like "GUEST,Yahoocom"? Dave Oesterreich |
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14 Apr 08 - 09:09 PM (#2315759) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: Bobert lol, Dave... What I mean is that Max does a little mad scientist thing whereby a certain "isp" will always recognize a certain handle... Thios would keep GUESTs from bouncing from one handle to another... B~ |
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15 Apr 08 - 09:57 AM (#2316171) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: GUEST,lox They found the murderer of the English student Meredith whassname (forgotten second name) who was killed in Italy in bizarre circumstances, because he logged into his facebook account in an internet cafe in Germany. They traced him and caught him with apparent ease. |
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15 Apr 08 - 09:58 AM (#2316173) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: GUEST,lox You could always just tell them "I know where you live" in a strong belfast accent anyway ... |
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15 Apr 08 - 10:16 AM (#2316186) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: GUEST,Jon Boberts, I guess you mean IP address rather than ISP. A couple of problems for you: 1. An IP address can be used by many users. 2. It is possible for example to use a proxy server so that the IP address seen is not your own. Wikipedia had great fun with it and AOL. See here |
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15 Apr 08 - 10:27 AM (#2316194) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: GUEST,PMB This was posted via an anonymous proxy. It should be possible to detect and block them, however you have to maintain a list of proxies, which may well be constantly changing. Code here for one way of coping with the problem. But there's not much you could do about dial-ups I don't think. In case anyone thinks anonymous proxies might let you look for illegal material on the web, consider that you're much safer in the hands of the CID/FBI than the mafia..... |
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15 Apr 08 - 11:13 AM (#2316231) Subject: RE: BS: GUEST Suggestions??? From: GUEST,Jon Interesting test (missing some backslashes btw. should be \r\n). If it did detect, I can't see it doing any good for something like that AOL problem though - loads of legitimate users going through the proxy. |