BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders

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BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders

19 Apr 08 - 09:22 AM (#2319975)
Subject: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Wondering why the crowd went wild when Obama brushed the dirt of the debate off his shoulders the following day?

Yeah, probably not.

But the youth vote & lots of African Americans know the pop culture reference, making him all the more endearing to them...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWLHQ3S-Oq8

Obama plays this little game all the time with the kiddies. Can't wait for the First Couple to bring hip hop into the House!

And a Yahoo News article on this moment in pop culture history:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080418/cm_thenation/45312336

And the Washington Post w/the video of Obama:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/18/AR2008041803282.html?hpid=topnews

And if you don't get it, well all the better. Because that means you ain't hip enough, like the Obama Posse is.

How did I find out? Kids at school were all about it yesterday.

19 Apr 08 - 09:29 AM (#2319982)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Ron Davies

Yes, Janet, some of us knew that--and possibly before you. Jay-Z, as I recall.

19 Apr 08 - 09:41 AM (#2319985)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Nah, there are very few hip hop fans at Mudcat. Most folks here know nothing about the art form, the cultural references, etc.

And to me, if anything of value will come out of the Obama impending victory, it will be that it might hold the power to change the thug culture that is destroying generations of urban poor black kids.

But I don't hold out much hope of that either, considering the mother of two of our students at my school who threw her twin babies off a bridge into the Mississippi River on the 4th of July, and then followed them in--was a hip hop diva w/a slew of mental health problems.

Pop culture hip hop isn't getting these kids anywhere beyond feeling more deprived of material goods, of decent parenting, etc. and fuels the vicious cycle of status quo poverty.

I happen to love the art form of hip hop, but detest most of the artists. I've been doing slam and spoken word poetry w/my students for years. But they know how I feel about the hip hop crap that is hateful, misogynist, and greed based. But I LOVED Straight Outta Compton, and back then, hoped it would lead the hip hop music movement to great new heights of social criticism.

Sadly, it all degenerated into the thug thing, instead--to make it palatable to the mainstream values of MTV.

19 Apr 08 - 09:43 AM (#2319987)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: frogprince

Dusted the dirt off his shoulders? A presidential candidate made a physical gesture like that, which has been popularized by a minority group? Ohmygod! I'm glad I found out about this, before it was too late! You know damn well, anyone capable of doing that is capable of listening to rap music and committing drive-by shootings.

19 Apr 08 - 09:44 AM (#2319989)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Get over yourself, and try and hold an adult conversation, will you?

19 Apr 08 - 09:45 AM (#2319990)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Ron Davies

Problem is: "hip-hop" is just not music. Melodies, are, shall we say, not the best.

19 Apr 08 - 09:50 AM (#2319993)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: frogprince

Fantasma, you posted again while I was writting. It looks like you didn't mean to be aiming as low or hateful as I immediately thought; apologies if my response was a bit much.

19 Apr 08 - 09:52 AM (#2319994)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Guys, guys, guys ya aren't getting what I'm talking about. I am talking about what Obama represents--a changing of the generational guard. Bill Clinton was the first baby boomer "rock" president. Obama would be the first "hip hop" president, and the first president to bring some (though not much, to be sure) authentic African American culture to the White House.

Here is a You Tube link to an interview w/Obama, where he talks about hip hop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFSVG7jRp_g

Now, the problem I have with Obama's "audacity of hope" regarding urban education and the "achievement gap" (which I live w/on a daily basis), is Jay Z ain't got no answers neither.

Not to mention, if we look to hip hop to save us, aren't we making that same mistake some 60s kids did, believe that rock and roll would change the world? Like that ever happened?

19 Apr 08 - 09:56 AM (#2319995)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Ron Davies

And of course the lyrics are a bit of a problem--lots of misogyny and whatever "kill the pigs" translates to these days. There may be some social commentary--but updated "kill the pigs", glorifying drugs, and misogyny appear to be in the majority.

But I'm sure, aside from the melodies and the lyrics, it's wonderful stuff.

And I do like "Cicada Serenade"--which might possibly not qualify as "hip-hop".

19 Apr 08 - 10:00 AM (#2319997)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

OK, I didn't start the thread to talk about your personal musical tastes, Ron.

I started it to start a conversation about what an Obama general election candidacy, and ultimately his presidency, means to the national zeitgeist, which is reaching a pinnacle with his candidacy.

Or maybe you haven't given it much thought, because you've been too obsessed with the horse race?

19 Apr 08 - 10:05 AM (#2319999)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

And then, there is the trotting out of the Red, White and Blue theme for Obama. This time by punkers:

http://www.secretlyironic.com/?p=1781

19 Apr 08 - 10:43 AM (#2320023)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

But not all hip hoppers are on board:

From the Hip Hop News blog:

Snoop Dogg Criticizes Barack Obama

April 7th, 2008

In a candid interview on Thursday with London newspaper The Guardian, Snoop Dogg commented on U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama, accusing him of receiving funding from historically anti-black organization the Ku Klux Klan.

"The KKK gave Obama money. They was one of his biggest supporters... The media won't tell you that. They don't want you to know that. They just want you to know that this nigger befriended this other nigger who be threatening your values. But we all know all presidents lie to get into fucking office. That's they fucking job."

According to a reporter for Gone Hollywood, Obama denied these allegations, saying that the rumors are "completely untrue."

Snoop is not the only Hip Hop figure that has openly expressed discontent towards the U.S. presidential candidate. In an interview with the Black Agenda Report, Russell Simmons accused Obama of being a "controlled politician."

"I think about one-fourth of his campaign contributions came from small donations made over the internet, even though he collected more than any other democratic candidate from Wall Street people. So at the end of the day, he's controlled, too. That's my point. He's a mouse, too, like everybody else," Simmons added.

Although Snoop has expressed his opposition towards Obama, he believes that he will become America's next president.

"In America's eyes, that muthafucker's gonna be president 'cause [John] McCain can't fuck with him. Hillary [Clinton] can't fuck with him. He's winning over white people, white ladies."

Reported by Krysten Hughes.

19 Apr 08 - 11:02 AM (#2320033)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Charley Noble

Well, I do find this thread instructive on many levels.

I do miss a lot of the cultural cues in this campaign.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble, on up the Kennebec River in Maine

19 Apr 08 - 11:09 AM (#2320036)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: katlaughing

Azizi already covered this with a link etc. in a previous thread: HERE.

19 Apr 08 - 11:09 AM (#2320037)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: meself

So who DOES "Snoop Dogg" endorse for the presidency? America needs to know ...

19 Apr 08 - 12:10 PM (#2320062)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Azizi covered it? What is she, the Mudcat token?

Azizi gave the link to the Obama speech where he did the Jay Z move. She didn't mention the pop culture reference to the hip hop song Obama was referencing in that speech.

So, I decided to explore "what it meant" here in another thread, so as not to hijack the debate thread. This isn't a thread about the debate. This is a thread about what it will mean to have the first hip hop president. Big difference.

BTW, I wouldn't be so quick to diss the endorsement of a hip hop mogul if I were you, meself. Obama will need every vote he can get in November, including--maybe even especially--the hip hop vote.

19 Apr 08 - 12:20 PM (#2320069)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: CarolC

Hip Hop president? Whew! That's ok then. I was getting concerned that he might be an "elitist".

19 Apr 08 - 12:32 PM (#2320075)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Oprah is safe. She promotes safe rappers & hip hop artists. Al Sharpton is safe. He promotes racial and gender neutral rap, and censorship of rap and hip hop lyrics the same way Oprah and Russell Simmons do.

Oprah and Snoop?

No, that be a little too real, cause d swizz is the realest.

19 Apr 08 - 12:38 PM (#2320079)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor

>>Azizi covered it? What is she, the Mudcat token?<<

What in the hell is wrong with you?

Pause ten seconds before you type and THINK!

19 Apr 08 - 12:42 PM (#2320082)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

He is an elitist. A Harvard snob, in fact. The only one who beats him at his own arrogance game is his wife.

But that doesn't change the fact he will be taking the generational torch when he wins, and he'll be taking the hand off from William Jefferson Clinton, the first rock and roll president.

Which is why the Bill and Hill show won back in '92. Youth vote. Generational change.

It didn't take the first time, hence Dubya.

This time, we can get all jazzed w/a hip hop prez, a New N.W.A. for a Brand New Day, as my kids were saying yesterday, without understanding/grasping the cultural references correctly either! But despite the Northwest Airlines/Delta merger being the talk of the town locally, I don't thing that was what they were talking about either (at least, not the 6th grade boys).

19 Apr 08 - 12:58 PM (#2320097)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Apparently, I've stunned y'all into silence here.

Come on Mudcat Obamamaniacs, this is your boy!

They are talkinga about his Jay Z moves on the Washington Post and New York Times politico blogs!

Cat got your tongues?

19 Apr 08 - 12:58 PM (#2320098)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Ron Davies

Sorry, Jack--it's not in Janet's makeup to think before hitting "'send". She just wants to rant--and the rest of us should just sit back and enjoy the show. It is, after all, just too entertaining.

As I've said earlier, life must have treated her pretty dreadfully for her to have such bottomless rage.

19 Apr 08 - 01:03 PM (#2320101)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: mg

I liked the shoulders bit. It wasn' verbal so they can't parse it too much but it was done in a sort of humerous way. He strikes me as a somewhat sophistaced nerd but they can like hip hop too. mg

19 Apr 08 - 01:05 PM (#2320103)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: CarolC

It's not rage. It's a game. And she's really, really good at it, too. ;-)

19 Apr 08 - 01:07 PM (#2320106)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Trying to turn the thread into YET ANOTHER ad hominem there, Ron?

How about you share your great wisdom of the cultural and generational ramifications of the Obama presidency with us instead of another lame attempt to engage in character assassination?

I haven't said anything I wouldn't say to a person's face here, including Azizi's. Some Mudcatters treat her like the forum token black, especially when the subject is race and African American culture.

Regardless of what Azizi says, I might add. I don't feel compelled to agree with her, because of her race. I'm not that easily intimidated, because I still live in the 'hood.

19 Apr 08 - 01:12 PM (#2320109)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

That's right, CarolC. We're all playas here. You, me, JTS, Ron, Azizi, katlaughing, Peace, Bobert...

We're all playas here. Y'all got the advantage of your pack. Me, strictly the power of my words. It's all I got.

19 Apr 08 - 01:14 PM (#2320112)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Ron Davies

Well, Janet, if the role you want is vulgar, raging, more-feminist-than-thou idiot, by all means have at it--I don't think anybody else wants the role.

But I really have to get some work done.

Have fun.

19 Apr 08 - 01:33 PM (#2320126)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: CarolC

Y'all got the advantage of your pack.

I think you know better than that. There may be a pack, but I ain't in it. Just ask them. They'll tell you.

19 Apr 08 - 01:46 PM (#2320134)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor

When Katlaughing did that it was about the 10,000th time someone in the Mudcat pointed out that an idea was covered first in another thread.

In fact when I first saw this thread I wondered why it wasn't folded into that other thread. Is there going to be some new insight? Nope. I think it is OK that Janet started this this thread. I'm not OK that she got pissy when Kat told her that the topic had been covered and then Janet accused Kat of reverse racism. It was not called for and not true. In this case Janet's trolling for cheap controversy and attention has gone too far.

19 Apr 08 - 01:53 PM (#2320138)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: katlaughing

Best thing is don't feed the troll, folks.

19 Apr 08 - 01:58 PM (#2320144)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: katlaughing

OH, and if anyone followed the links, Azizi - A Mudcat Member - posted a much more extensive explanation in THIS THREAD, for the record.

So, I fed her...the sack is empty now.

19 Apr 08 - 02:37 PM (#2320176)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Ebbie

I am not *in* to hip hop- and quite frankly it doesn't bother me a whit.

However, whether or not it has curretnly acquired a secret meaning, brushing off one's shoulders or shaking one's shoes is nothing new. Even in the Bible it tells the traveling disciples to shake the dirt off their shoes before they travel on, if their message is not received. lol

Brushing oneself off is in the same category as plucking feathers off one's back. Is that also a secret, Janet?

Pathetic.

19 Apr 08 - 02:46 PM (#2320185)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Little Hawk

Interesting thread. Yes, Obama can carry the torch of generational change very effectively in 2008 and beyond, and he will if he wins this election. I'm not so sure yet that he will win it, but I think he might.

I couldn't agree more, Fantasma, with your comments about the "hip hop crap that is hateful, misogynist, and greed based" and that "pop culture hip hop isn't getting these kids anywhere beyond feeling more deprived of material goods, of decent parenting, etc. and fuels the vicious cycle of status quo poverty".

Dead right!!! It's awful stuff. I've detested both Rap and Hip Hop as general categories of music ever since they were first foisted on us all by the mainstream music business...mostly via MTV. It's standard cynical mass marketing. They couldn't care less what damage they do to society and to people's lives as long as the money rolls in.

And yeah, everybody's a "playa" here. LOL! And how. The thing people most love is to see their own words appear in print onscreen and then imagine the effect that their devastatingly clever and brilliant comments are having on those they are directed to. They smirk knowingly or grimly as they hit the "Submit Message" key. It's also a splendid little dumping ground for all those pent-up hostilities and hatreds to be vented, for excess self-righteousness to be bled off, for deep-seated longstanding resentments, bitterness, and feelings of persecution to be expiated, all that kind of thing. You don't have to kick the dog anymore or torture the goldfish or play those vicious little domineering mind games with your spouse and kids when you've got a fulltime audience on the Internet to fight with and abuse, right?

Nobody here but us "playas". ;-) You can tell how bad the emotional addiction is by how often the playa posts, how long they ramble on, and how nasty and personal they get when they are posting.

Now I shall smile grimly as I hit "Submit Message".........

(By the way, I'm trying to break the addiction. You note that I am posting a lot less lately, specially on political threads? Wish me luck with that. There is still hope of redemption, I think, for all of us.)

19 Apr 08 - 03:46 PM (#2320224)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: meself

What exactly is a "playa"? I thought it was someone who tended toward infedility in amorous relations - but that doesn't seem to apply here ... does it?

19 Apr 08 - 04:01 PM (#2320234)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Little Hawk

Well, I think in this context it probably means people who are playing various forms of manipulative and competitive mind games with one another via an Internet forum, and thereby seeking some form of illusory satisfaction by achieving momentary dominance over those they disagree with. Short term gratification, at best! They're busy winning battles that don't matter and which should never have been fought. That would be my guess. (?)

19 Apr 08 - 04:27 PM (#2320253)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: mg

Why call anyone a token anything. How insulting, but of course it was meant to be. Why not be glad for everyone of any background who shares an interest in folklore etc. We have a long ways to go but we are going nevertheless. mg

19 Apr 08 - 06:07 PM (#2320314)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Don Firth

Much Ado About Nothing
--Bill Shakespeare

19 Apr 08 - 06:25 PM (#2320325)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Don Firth

I don't know why this thread exists at all. It falls way short of the quality set by Gibson and Stephanopoulos in the ABC Wednesday night Philadelphia debate.

[Sound of toilet flushing]

Don Firth

19 Apr 08 - 07:05 PM (#2320355)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,lox

I'm gobsmacked!

I'm of course grateful for the link as I hadn't seen it before.

It reflects Obamas way of showing that he's still keeping his eye focussed on what matters and not getting distracted by peripheral nonsense, something which has been identified as his single and uncompromising strategy throughout his campaign.

So he's consistent. And this time he referred briefly to popular culture in a non hackneyed and non embarrassing but actually quite authentic way. So the result of this is that he's getting through to younger voters. And who knows, that might make younger voters feel like they're being spoken to and not overlooked as usual.

A different way for a mainstream politician to make a sensible statement of his position.

Ok - good news.

I like all that.

meanwhile - what the hell is with this thread?

what is it with Fantasma's apparent desire to own the subject and use it like a trophy to taunt all the silly old uncool fuddy dudddy folkies on Mudcat?

Still in the hood?

What?

I've played guitars, bass and drums and performed on the mic with numerous hip hop artists, two of whom (one is a close friend) have collaborated with beyonce (Jay-Z's wife) on one of her releases. I know rappers breakers Dj's and ghetto "mans" with black brown and white skin and there's one thing I can say about my friends involved in that art form and it is that they are generally respectful, inquiring, intelligent people who have an inclusive approach. They don't go around blowing raspberry's at people because of preconceived views they may have about them.

Sadly Hip Hop culture is full of people who wear the clothes, walk the walk and affect the attitude, but don't think before they speak, with the result that when they get up to deliver their speil, they have nothing to say.

It is deeply Ironic that an artform which stresses the importance of keeping it real is mis-reprazented by so many young people living a fantasy.

Had you REALLY paid attention to Obama, you would have found that he too is inclusive. His words resonate with anyone. They are all the more powerful because they resonate with sectors of society to whom politicians don't often authentically reach out.

Snoop what?

If you can point us to a link showing Snoop Dog making these comments then I'm sure we would be reassured as to the authenticity of your assertion.

If it's true, then All that remains is to laugh. The idea that a man who has made his living out of porn and cheap gangster impressions is somehow qualified to comment in any meaningful way on Barack Obama is simply laughable.

19 Apr 08 - 07:13 PM (#2320370)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,lox

"The media won't tell you that"

What a load of tripe!

Snoop is the media industry's poodle.

19 Apr 08 - 07:35 PM (#2320381)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Don Firth

When you live under your bed, associating only with dead bugs and dust-bunnies the way Janet does, you don't have too good a picture of what's going on in the real world.

These days, the main problem is that the candidates are not really talking much about the issues, and that's what I really want to hear—as does any other voter possessed of an adequate number of brain cells. But first, with moderators like those in this last debate, they wound up having to deal with the froth the moderators kept flinging. And second, it seems that when a candidate speaks of their position in solid terms, it scares a lot of people who are unable to think beyond the latest bumper-sticker they read. Look what happened to Dennis Kucinich!

But over time, you can get impressions, and if you listen carefully and can separate the sense from the nonsense, you can get a fairly good picture of what someone is all about.

I think Barack Obama, if elected, will be a breath of fresh air wafting through the noxious fumes of the nation's capital.

Don Firth

19 Apr 08 - 07:46 PM (#2320385)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,lox

Oh and Kat,

Perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but it did tickle me to notice that straight after the azizi post you linked us to was a post from ... erm ... somebody else who ... well ... clearly wasn't too interested ... at least not at that point anyway ...

I think I'll get my coat ...

19 Apr 08 - 07:53 PM (#2320388)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,lox

... but I'll just brush the dirt off it first ...

19 Apr 08 - 08:12 PM (#2320398)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Bobert

Ummmm, not to over-simplify Obama's jestures but Jesus taught us to take people and experiences that are negative and unchangebale and...

...shake the dust off our robes...

Maybe if more folks here spent a little more time in the Bible and less time messin' with Obama they might understand the reference...

I knew immediately where the jesture came from...

B~

19 Apr 08 - 08:28 PM (#2320406)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: katlaughing

LOL...lox, thanks for pointing that out. Guess it must of just zipped by her the first time...just goes to show some people are not interested in reading anything anyone else posts.

19 Apr 08 - 08:32 PM (#2320410)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Y'all haven't bothered with the links, have you?

Apparently, most of you haven't figured out yet that others can tell when you are shooting from the hip, and haven't gone to the links.

What, no mention of all those N-bombs and F-bombs?

19 Apr 08 - 08:48 PM (#2320418)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Praise the lord, Bobert.

Here are the lyrics to the Jay Z song getting mashed up on You Tube w/the Obama video:

You're now tuned into the muh'fuckin greatest
Turn the music up in the headphones
Tim, you can go and brush your shoulder off nigga
I got you, yeah

[Chorus: Jay-Z]
If you feelin like a pimp nigga, go and brush your shoulders off
Ladies is pimps too, go and brush your shoulders off
Niggaz is crazy baby, don't forget that boy told you
Get, that, dirt off your shoulder

[Verse One]
I probably owe it to y'all, proud to be locked by the force
Tryin to hustle some things, that go with the Porsche
Feelin no remorse, feelin like my hand was forced
Middle finger to the law, nigga grip'n my balls
All the ladies they love me, from the bleachers they screamin
All the ballers is bouncin they like the way I be leanin
All the rappers be hatin, off the track that I'm makin
But all the hustlers they love it just to see one of us make it
Came from the bottom the bottom, to the top of the pots
Nigga London, Japan and I'm straight off the block
Like a running back, get it man, I'm straight off the block
I can run it back nigga cause I'm straight with the Roc

[Chorus]

[Chorus Two]
You gotta get, that, dirt off your shoulder
You gotta get, that, dirt off your shoulder
You gotta get, that, dirt off your shoulder
You gotta get, that, dirt off your shoulder

[Verse Two]
Your homey Hov' in position, in the kitchen with soda
I just whipped up a watch, tryin to get me a Rover
Tryin to stretch out the coca, like a wrestler, yessir
Keep the Heckler close, you know them smokers'll test ya
But like, fifty-two cards when I'm, I'm through dealin
Now fifty-two bars come out, now you feel 'em
Now, fifty-two cars roll out, remove ceiling
In case fifty-two broads come out, now you chillin
with a boss bitch of course S.C. on the sleeve
At the 40/40 club, ESPN on the screen
I paid a grip for the jeans, plus the slippers is clean
No chrome on the wheels, I'm a grown-up for real

[Chorus + Chorus Two]

[Verse Three]
Your boy back in the building, Brooklyn we back on the map
Me and my beautiful beeeeeeeitch in the back of that 'Bach
I'm the realest that run it, I just happen to rap
I ain't gotta clap at 'em, niggaz scared of that black
I drop that +Black, Album+ then I back, out it
As the best rapper alive nigga ask about me
From Bricks to Billboards, from grams to Grammys
The O's to opposite, Orphan Annie
You gotta pardon Jay, for sellin out the Garden in a day
I'm like a young Marvin in his hey'
I'm a hustler homey, you a customer crony
Got some, dirt on my shoulder, could you brush it off for me?

[Chorus + Chorus Two]

You're now tuned into the muh'fuckin greatest

Best rapper alive, best rapper alive

19 Apr 08 - 08:50 PM (#2320422)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Bobert

Yes, I read the link...

But did anyone ask Obama if he learned this from gangstas or from Jesus???

No, they didn't so the ***assumption*** (assume- making an "ass" outta "u" and "me") was that seein' as Obama was black that he has learned all his stuff from gangstas..

Purdy friggin' racist...

I remember this jesture from a black minster back in the 60's... Oh, I guess he was a gangsta, too...

Hardly...

There's is way too much codified racism and absolute BS going on here in this joint... I have never seen so much...

Might as well rename this joint MudKlan... I mean, I go to work in the morning and come home and turn this friggin' computer on and read what has gone down and it is beyond belief!!!

Like WTF???

Obama ain't no gangsta... Obama ain't no boy... Obama ain't no nigga...

Obama is a very capable homo sapien who is running for president.... Period!!!

Now if fols wanta play their little racist games, fine... Play 'um... This ol' hillbilly been round the trwck a few times and will call you on every one of them... Might be this time of day but you can take iot to the bank that when it come to codified racism, you can just call me "The Sheriff" 'casue I'm gonna bust yer ball games...

Square business...

Sheriff Bobert

19 Apr 08 - 08:53 PM (#2320426)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,lox

What point are you illustrating?

19 Apr 08 - 09:04 PM (#2320434)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,lox

Sorry bobert, but this ones been taken up by the FBI (1989).

19 Apr 08 - 09:12 PM (#2320439)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Uh Bobert. The entire world has already figured out that Obama was referencing the Jay Z song, while you were at work, apparently.

From the MTV Newsroom site:

Obama Finds His Inner Jigga, Scores Zillion More 'Youth' Votes
28 Comments | Published by MTV News on Friday, April 18, 2008 at 12:22 pm.

We've seen Democratic Presidential candidate Barack Obama bust some moves on Ellen DeGeneres' show, and they did not fly. But after the shellacking he took during Wednesday night's Democratic debate — which has been roundly dissed for its tabloid-style focus on old skeletons in the closet — Obama used Thursday to tap into his inner Jigga.

In this mash-up video that's been making the rounds, Obama is seen tipping his hat to Jay-Z's 2003 track "Dirt Off Your Shoulder" by brushing off the comments made by rival Hillary Clinton. Jay's "Moment of Clarity" thumps under a highlight reel of Clinton and Wednesday night's moderators bashing Obama before the music swells. That's when "Dirt" comes in, as Obama explains to a crowd (in a speech yesterday) that when you're running for the presidency, you have to just "kind of expect" the attacks. That's when he brushes a bit of dirt off his shoulder — and makes hip-hop history.

We kind of agree that this may be "the coolest subliminal cultural reference in the history of American politics."

19 Apr 08 - 09:15 PM (#2320442)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

From Ari Melber's page at HuffPo:

Obama Meets Jay-Z in YouTube Mashup Slamming Clinton & Debate

Posted April 17, 2008 | 10:40 PM (EST)

Barack Obama is clearly taking that abysmal ABC News debate in stride. He told his supporters not to fret about all the "textbook Washington" drama on Thursday, recounting the superficial moderators and Hillary Clinton's attempts to "twist the knife" on trivial issues. Then Obama made pop cultural history, miming the rapper Jay-Z's iconic hand signal to "brush the dirt" off his shoulders.

That popular youth gesture grew out of "Dirt Off Your Shoulder," a hit song in 2003. As Wikipedia explains, it refers to "getting enemies off your chest by brushing your shoulders off." Blogger Spencer Ackerman, who regularly mixes political analysis with hip hop references, immediately heralded the move as "perhaps the coolest subliminal cultural reference in the history of American politics." A YouTube clip of the cultural moment, uploaded by the Obama Campaign, swiftly drew over 100,000 views on Thursday. And then the mashups started.

19 Apr 08 - 09:17 PM (#2320444)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Here is an excerpt from today's Washington Post:

Obama Has Jay-Z on His IPod and The Moves To Prove It
Video
Obama Brushes Off Debate Jabs
"CBS News RAW": Campaigning in Raleigh, N.C., Barack Obama speaks about the ABC debate, saying Hillary Clinton "looked in her element. She was taking every opportunity to get a dig in there."
» LAUNCH VIDEO PLAYER

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Who's Blogging
» Links to this article
By Teresa Wiltz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, April 19, 2008; Page C01

Perhaps this is what the Funkmeister -- that other Clinton -- meant when he sang about painting the White House black: There's Barack Obama, fresh from Wednesday's debate dust-up, beleaguered but still standing, acknowledging that he's taken some hits from his opponent, some mighty hits, but you know, it's okay, because that's politics. Ultimately, you've got to . . .

And then he -- pay attention now -- brushes the dirt off his shoulders. Repeatedly.

The crowd leaps to its feet, applauding and laughing.

Talk about a major Jay-Z move. People, we're talking about a seminal moment in the campaign, the merging of politics and pop culture: in which a presidential candidate -- a self-confessed hip-hop head and Jay-Z fan -- references a rap hit and a dance move.

Within hours, there were video mash-ups on the Web depicting Obama dusting himself off as Jay-Z urges, "If you feelin' like a pimp . . . go and brush your shoulders off. . . . Get that dirt off your shoulder." (In one mash-up, the heads of Bill and Hillary Clinton, Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos roll off the Illinois senator's broad shoulders.)

19 Apr 08 - 09:21 PM (#2320445)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Ooops. My bad. Hit submit instead of the preview.

Everything above:

By Teresa Wiltz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, April 19, 2008; Page C01

should be deleted.

19 Apr 08 - 09:29 PM (#2320449)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: pdq

I believe Janet wanted to post the following:

By Teresa Wiltz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, April 19, 2008

Perhaps this is what the Funkmeister -- that other Clinton -- meant when he sang about painting the White House black: There's Barack Obama, fresh from Wednesday's debate dust-up, beleaguered but still standing, acknowledging that he's taken some hits from his opponent, some mighty hits, but you know, it's okay, because that's politics. Ultimately, you've got to . . .

And then he -- pay attention now -- brushes the dirt off his shoulders. Repeatedly.

The crowd leaps to its feet, applauding and laughing.

Talk about a major Jay-Z move. People, we're talking about a seminal moment in the campaign, the merging of politics and pop culture: in which a presidential candidate -- a self-confessed hip-hop head and Jay-Z fan -- references a rap hit and a dance move.

Within hours, there were video mash-ups on the Web depicting Obama dusting himself off as Jay-Z urges, "If you feelin' like a pimp . . . go and brush your shoulders off. . . . Get that dirt off your shoulder." (In one mash-up, the heads of Bill and Hillary Clinton, Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos roll off the Illinois senator's broad shoulders.)

19 Apr 08 - 09:33 PM (#2320450)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Don Firth

Yeah, you do work for Karl Rove.

Don Firth

19 Apr 08 - 09:35 PM (#2320451)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Did I mention he only does this sort of thing in southern states? That the 'move' in question was done during a North Carolina speech, and not done in PA?

Today he was looking a lot like Michael Dukakis in the tank, on the back of a train car used by the Democratic nominees in PA, while campaigning in Lancaster, PA? The heart of "bitter, small town, gun and god loving, rural PA?

Yeah, get Obama out of the city, and he looks like what he is: an urbane Harvard snob, stuck at the home of distant relatives he looks down upon with contempt.

19 Apr 08 - 09:38 PM (#2320452)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: pdq

I went to eBay and checked the CDs for sale.

If you combine Rap, Disco, DJ and Hip Hop, they represent less than 6% of the CDs being offered.

That is a reasonable guess as to the number of Urban Stink Noise fans in the US. They can all get lost, as far as I am concerned. It isn't just the content that is offensive, but the fact that it is blasted in the face of people who don't want to hear it. (BOOM, BOOM) Die Honky Mutha Fukkah is offensive. I do not want a president who thinks otherwise.

19 Apr 08 - 09:41 PM (#2320453)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Don Firth

You do love to wallow in manure, don't you, Janet!?

Don Firth

19 Apr 08 - 09:51 PM (#2320456)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Not a hip hop fan, Don?

19 Apr 08 - 10:00 PM (#2320461)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Don Firth

That's not what I'm referring to.

Don Firth

19 Apr 08 - 10:11 PM (#2320463)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

The Obama camp is currently referring to ANYONE who challenges the Official Obama is the Next Political Messiah message, as working for the Republicans.

So, your point is? What are you referring to exactly, Don?

I'm quoting from mainstream sources here.

The problem you have with folks here trying to discuss what we think about Obama as the first hip hop generation president is...?

It is what it is.

20 Apr 08 - 08:53 AM (#2320624)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

From our local rag City Pages:

Obama: Our first hip hop presidential candidate
Filed under: Barack Obama

Several months back, I happened across an interview with Obama on BET entitled, "What's In It For Us? Barack Obama And the Black Vote." What really stunned me was when Barack started talking about being a fan of hip hop, including Jay-Z's new album, American Gangster:

I love the art of hip hop. I don't always love the message of hip hop. There are times when even ... with the artists I named -- the artists I love, you know -- there's a message that is not only sometimes degrading to women; not only uses the n-word a little too frequently; but also something I'm really concerned about, it's always talking about material things. Always talking about how I can get something. How I've got more money...

This was in stark contrast to most politicians, who can't denounce hip hop fast enough. I thought this was truly a revolutionary moment--our first hip hop presidential candidate. To me, it represented Generation X penetrating the political establishment, much like JFK was for the baby boomers.

I was reminded of that yesterday when I was watching TV and saw Obama mime Jay-Z and brush the dirt off his shoulder in reference to ABC's embarrassingly shallow debate.

Apparently, I wasn't the only one who picked up on the reference, because there's now this amazing YouTube mashup that features Jay-Z's Black Album banger as a soundtrack:

[You Tube Video]

I love the bald black dude over Obama's right shoulder who gets the reference immediately and starts pointing like he's in the front row of a hip hop concert.

Obama's got 99 problems, but Hillary ain't one.

Posted by Kevin Hoffman at April 18, 2008 4:13 PM

20 Apr 08 - 08:57 AM (#2320625)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

And this is a short excerpt from a long article about this dynamic in today's San Francisco Chronicle:

'Millennial Generation' set to rock the vote

Carla Marinucci, Chronicle Political Writer

Sunday, April 20, 2008

No, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama hasn't been in the habit of wearing an American flag on his lapel.

Yes, he's got some controversial acquaintances and has made some slipups lately about working Americans who "cling" to religion.

So won't it be easy for Republican Sen. John McCain, Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton - and the media - to keep painting Obama as an ultraliberal elitist who is out of touch with American values and working people?

In another era - when Baby Boomers were the overwhelmingly dominant generation - maybe so.

But with just two days until Pennsylvania kicks off the final round of primaries, political observers say there's clear evidence that the election of 2008 represents a new universe - and a new generation - when it comes to White House contests. And the political phenomenon of Barack Obama is symbolic of the game-changing attitudes and growing influence to be wielded by the upcoming generation of "Millennial" voters - the largest and most diverse generation in American history, born between 1982 and 2003 - who already are helping to shape the race.

Authors Morley Winograd and Michael Hais, who just released "Millennial Makeover: MySpace, YouTube and the Future of American Politics," a book that examines the seismic generational and cultural realignments at play on the political stage this year, say the political pileups of the past week represent a perfect example of how the 20-somethings have managed to reshape conventional politics in the current race for the White House.

There was Obama's brouhaha over the "bitter" comments in San Francisco - fueled by Clinton, McCain and the media - followed by a rough Philadelphia debate in which Clinton got tough and ABC moderators got tougher, peppering him about his recent stumbles and gaffes.

That looked to be a perfect storm that might have swamped a first-time presidential candidate, but it wasn't Obama who took the body blows. Instead, ABC's George Stephanopoulos and Charles Gibson, the journalists, were publicly pummeled for "gotcha games," and Clinton came away with nary a new superdelegate in her pocket.
Nothing sticking

Meanwhile, Obama literally brushed it all off as the old way of doing things, while both Pennsylvania and national polls appear to suggest that none of it has stuck to him. Indeed, he looks even stronger, said Winograd, a former senior adviser to Vice President Al Gore during the Clinton administration.

Twenty-somethings "are driving the presidential race in a huge way," said Annemarie Stephens, an organizer for the youth-oriented "Nation for Change" rally to celebrate Obama's campaign today at Frank Ogawa Plaza in Oakland. The event, which will star gospel, hip-hop and ethnic musicians - like similar rallies planned in nearly all 50 states today - has been put together almost entirely on the Internet, she said.

"People are concerned about the well-being of this country," she said. "It's no longer politics as usual; we're not going to stand for the pettiness."

Jordan D'Amato, 20, a political science major at UC Berkeley and one of the "Millennial Generation," says coming of age in an era of the two-term presidency of George W. Bush has had a clear impact on his political outlook.

"I think the country is headed in the wrong direction, and there have been monumental failures, like the war in Iraq," the health care system and the economy, he said.

Obama, he said, has "run a very successful campaign so far, proposing a message of hope" to address those issues.

"So when he makes a slipup, and people point out his relationship to Jeremiah Wright," the senator's controversial former pastor, "you say, 'Yes, he has faults.' " But, D'Amato said, Obama isn't influenced by pundits and politicians "trying to pick him apart."

The apparent inability of Clinton and McCain to influence voters like D'Amato and blunt Obama's trajectory underscores the different world and political view of the "Millennial Generation," which some have suggested looks increasingly like the "Obamanation."

Unlike their Boomer parents - those millions of 50- and 60-something activists born of protest and conflict who accept politics as a blood sport - the younger generation has come of age in an era of burgeoning new technologies providing tangible evidence of the promise of change.

"Unlike the conservative Gen-Xers who preceded them, or the harshly divided Baby Boomer Generation, the Millennials are united across gender and race in their desire to find win-win solutions to America's problems," Winograd and Hais write.

20 Apr 08 - 09:11 AM (#2320628)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

But in a very poignant Old School moment this weekend in North Carolina, Maya Angelou endorsed Hilary Clinton.

20 Apr 08 - 09:27 AM (#2320629)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: artbrooks

"The Obama camp is currently referring to ANYONE who challenges the Official Obama is the Next Political Messiah message, as working for the Republicans."

Should one assume that includes Senator Clinton?

20 Apr 08 - 09:29 AM (#2320631)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Bobert

Hip-hop, rap er not...
No bustin' fir dustin'
Mah mama did it
Mah daddy did it too
You talk that funky sh*t
I be walkin' away from you

20 Apr 08 - 09:48 AM (#2320644)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Yes artbrooks, Obama himself is leading this charge, and accusing Clinton regularly of being in the Republican camp, using the Republican rule book, of 'knifing' him and 'twisting the knife' (if you look at the You Tube video of the North Carolina speech, it may or may not include all the references he made, because it doesn't show the whole speech.

But when he compares Clinton's criticism of him to a knife fight?

Yeah, well...that IS the game of politics, isn't it?

Like I said, it is what it is.

20 Apr 08 - 09:51 AM (#2320647)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

It is pretty disheartening to see that no one is willing to engage in a conversation about the generational dynamics of Obama winning the nomination (which is a near certainty at this point).

There are a number of substantial articles from the MSM that people here so love to quote from, discussing this very thing this weekend, as the San Francisco Chronicle excerpt shows.

Are people here so anti-youth and so anti-hip hop that they can't bring themselves to even talk about it?

Do you think this isn't going to be a centerpiece of the Obama campaign come summer & the convention?

There is the Hip Hop Summit going on in Philly this weekend to get out the youth vote.

What is the problem here?

20 Apr 08 - 10:05 AM (#2320658)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: artbrooks

Perhaps the problem is that too many people here see your definition of a "conversation" as providing an opportunity for you to rudely and obscenely stuff the other party's opinion down their throat.

20 Apr 08 - 10:05 AM (#2320659)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Bobert

Like I said on another thread, some things that are said and sung within the hip-hop/rap culture are offensive... I don't want an angry young man who thinks it's okay to call women "bitches" in my tent and I don't think Obma wants that angry ytoung man's vote...

But I'm not accusing all rap/hip hoppers here... My son writes some very good rap and is a purdy darned good rapper and actually performed one of his compositions with me at a festival I was doing but he wouldn't use the term "boy" in refe3rring to a black man or "bitch" when referring to a woman or suggest hurting or killing people...That's a matter of values...

But with that said, I wouldn't mind hearing what Obama has to say about such language and threats of violence...

B~

p.s. Maybe my son will stop in here and share some of his stuff... As a song writer/poet myself I think it's purdy good... But it ain't imflamatory...

20 Apr 08 - 10:10 AM (#2320662)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

I provided you that opportunity, Bobert, early on in this thread.

Here, again, is the link to a You Tube video interview with Barack Obama talking about hip hop in general, and his love of Jay Z's music in particular:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFSVG7jRp_g

And as to the use of obscenities, that don't bother me a bit (in case y'all haven't noticed that about me yet). If you don't like cussin' you shouldn't read MY posts, that's fer sure.

20 Apr 08 - 10:15 AM (#2320664)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

artbrooks, most people come here looking for agreement and support from the Mudcat forum.

But that ain't me, babe. Paint me controversial and provocative, and you'll get a far more accurate picture of who I am. And I don't apologize for it, either.

20 Apr 08 - 10:36 AM (#2320674)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

And Bobert, I provided the lyrics to the Jay Z song Obama referenced above in this thread.

It is full of muthafucka, nigga, bitches and ho, etc etc.

So, based upon your statement "I don't want an angry young man who thinks it's okay to call women "bitches" in my tent and I don't think Obma wants that angry ytoung man's vote..." I guess Obama ain't yer man after all, huh?

Cuz Jay Z is a main hip hop endorser of Obama, and the Obama campaign is using him to do phone calling to get out the vote, as this You Tube video shows, that plays the audio from the phone call in the Ohio primary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp-2XEQtB_o

So not only is Jay Z in The Tent, he is the hip hop mogul leading the charge for Obama, but I guess it is time for you to look around and see who is actually sitting next to you in the Obama tent. It ain't just you hillbilly radicals (sic) anymore, Bobert.

20 Apr 08 - 10:42 AM (#2320676)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

And one more link about the Jay Z Obama robocall to HipHop4Prez webpage at SOHH.com (which hosts one of the biggest online hip hop forums on the web).

http://blogs.sohh.com/hiphop4prez/2008/03/hiphop4prez_exclusive_jay_z_dr.html

Of course, that is pretty old news. The new news headline is that Foxy is straight outta Rikers this weekend.

20 Apr 08 - 11:10 AM (#2320689)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Bobert

As fir cussing, hey, I can live with a little of it... As fir the lyrics, I'll have to download them when I have more time... My computer is v-e-r-y slow...

BTW, Fantz... I wouldn't vote for you for president and wouldn't vote for Obama if he had yer views...

As for dusting, it is Biblical and has been part of the black culture going back to long before Obama was born...

B~

20 Apr 08 - 11:18 AM (#2320694)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Bobert, how dumb do you think we all are? You read the lyrics, I posted them above, and you were the first person who posted after the lyrics post.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 08:48 PM

Praise the lord, Bobert.

Here are the lyrics to the Jay Z song getting mashed up on You Tube w/the Obama video:

You're now tuned into the muh'fuckin greatest
Turn the music up in the headphones
Tim, you can go and brush your shoulder off nigga
I got you, yeah

[Chorus: Jay-Z]
If you feelin like a pimp nigga, go and brush your shoulders off
Ladies is pimps too, go and brush your shoulders off
Niggaz is crazy baby, don't forget that boy told you
Get, that, dirt off your shoulder

[Verse One]
I probably owe it to y'all, proud to be locked by the force
Tryin to hustle some things, that go with the Porsche
Feelin no remorse, feelin like my hand was forced
Middle finger to the law, nigga grip'n my balls
All the ladies they love me, from the bleachers they screamin
All the ballers is bouncin they like the way I be leanin
All the rappers be hatin, off the track that I'm makin
But all the hustlers they love it just to see one of us make it
Came from the bottom the bottom, to the top of the pots
Nigga London, Japan and I'm straight off the block
Like a running back, get it man, I'm straight off the block
I can run it back nigga cause I'm straight with the Roc

[Chorus]

[Chorus Two]
You gotta get, that, dirt off your shoulder
You gotta get, that, dirt off your shoulder
You gotta get, that, dirt off your shoulder
You gotta get, that, dirt off your shoulder

[Verse Two]
Your homey Hov' in position, in the kitchen with soda
I just whipped up a watch, tryin to get me a Rover
Tryin to stretch out the coca, like a wrestler, yessir
Keep the Heckler close, you know them smokers'll test ya
But like, fifty-two cards when I'm, I'm through dealin
Now fifty-two bars come out, now you feel 'em
Now, fifty-two cars roll out, remove ceiling
In case fifty-two broads come out, now you chillin
with a boss bitch of course S.C. on the sleeve
At the 40/40 club, ESPN on the screen
I paid a grip for the jeans, plus the slippers is clean
No chrome on the wheels, I'm a grown-up for real

[Chorus + Chorus Two]

[Verse Three]
Your boy back in the building, Brooklyn we back on the map
Me and my beautiful beeeeeeeitch in the back of that 'Bach
I'm the realest that run it, I just happen to rap
I ain't gotta clap at 'em, niggaz scared of that black
I drop that +Black, Album+ then I back, out it
As the best rapper alive nigga ask about me
From Bricks to Billboards, from grams to Grammys
The O's to opposite, Orphan Annie
You gotta pardon Jay, for sellin out the Garden in a day
I'm like a young Marvin in his hey'
I'm a hustler homey, you a customer crony
Got some, dirt on my shoulder, could you brush it off for me?

[Chorus + Chorus Two]

You're now tuned into the muh'fuckin greatest

Best rapper alive, best rapper alive

20 Apr 08 - 12:03 PM (#2320715)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Charley Noble

Janet-

It's just the same old "guilt by association" trip that rears its ugly head up here there and everywhere in this campaign. You do it yourself to provoke comment, and you generally succeed.

Whatever!

Charley Noble

20 Apr 08 - 12:11 PM (#2320721)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Bobert

"Best Rapper Alive"???

Well, Fantz, like my daddy used to say, I reckon that's what makes for a horse race... Different opinions...

I'd put mu son's rap up against this stuff an' my son's stuff went over well with a predominantly white (and rural) crowd... The music business is a crap shoot... The best don't necessarilly make it to the top... It's more like hitting the lottery becasue of media consolidation like ClearChannel... I know this first hand... I've been in and out of a performing musicain going back to the 60's... I know folks who have "made it" that aren't near as good as folks who ain't...

I reckon that's why I didn't finish reading Jay-Z's lyrics because I didn't find them appealing or acceptable... I think he could say the things without the inflmatory stuff... But then again, okay, maybe I'm of Jay-Z's daddy or grand-daddy's erra... An erra where women weren't "beeeches", black folks were "niggas" and no ome were "mf'ers"...

As for "dustin'"... I remember when I learned that lesson and who taught it to me... It was like '68 and several this black, articulate, minster was working for R-CAP, (Richmond Community Action Program) where I was being paid (haha) as a communitty organizer... There were three or four of us rowdy radicals in a meeting with this minister... We all just knew him as Joe... But we youngins were talkin' trash... You know, the current revolutionary rhetoric od the day and Joe wnt into a little Dr. King-ish sermon about putting distance between ourselves and folks who were preachin' violence and during that sermon he took his right hand and swept it not accross his sholder but accross the lapel on his suit jacket... It must have been a very meaningfull lesson as it still burns in my memory...

Culure is evolutionary for the most part but like in a plant it will on occasion "sport" (think disco here) and then get back on the path... I'm not saying that hip-hop is a "sport" but I am suggesting that some the the language, along with the imagery, will one day be looked upon as dated and innappropriate...

Does it disturb me that Obama would us a jesture which is founded in the black culture going back generations??? Well, no, it doesn't... Does it disturb me that Obama can do some of the current dances??? Well, no... Would it disturb me if Obama referred to his wife, Micelle, as a "bitch"... Yeah, and enough to make me a former Obama supporter...

Face it, in this tribalized world where rock throwing Palestinians kids wear Air Jordons, we are are somewhat interlocked in a global culture and we pick and choose from a vast menu of choices, entertainment and product... But with each choice there are all these off-shoots and when one gets into them things can get very murky...

That is purdy much what has happened here with this "dust-up"... Something rather benign compared to real issues gets pushed out in front as if it is the Holy Grail while the real issues get the back seat... This is the politics of division and destraction that Obama so very well articulates...

But like I said, that's what makes a horse race... There are a lot of folks who have seen where diastractions and pea-under-the-shell games have gotten US and if I'm a bettin' man then I'd have to put my bet on the voters not buying the same old crap...

B~

20 Apr 08 - 12:20 PM (#2320726)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Bobert, the 'best rapper alive' is part of the lyrics.

Charley, if I was posting this thread in January, your point would be legitimate.

However, it was Obama's actions in the wake of last week's debate that has prompted a flood of MSM responses, articles, and rushed "in depth" pieces on the generational effects of this election.

Am I provocative? Yes. But that isn't the same thing as engaging in guilt by association. You yourself said you knew nothing about Jay Z, "the move" by Obama on Thursday, the mashups on You Tube, the campaign using targeted robocalls by hip hoppers to reach the youth vote...

Come down off your high horses, people. It is clear you all didn't have ANY of this shit on your radar about Obama. If you did, you would be able to talk about it.

Me? I think it is as meaningful as Bill Clinton being the first baby boomer elected president--the rock and roll president--the first presidential candidate to appear on late night TV (on the Arsenio Hall Show), and on MTV.

This isn't racist bullshit or guilt by association. This is about how the game is played today, whether the dinofolk around here want to accept or not.

20 Apr 08 - 12:26 PM (#2320732)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

NO ONE has suggested that Obama's "Brush the Dirt Off" gesture had anything to do with "a jesture which is founded in the black culture going back generations".

No one, except you, of course. All the easier to make your spinning rationalizations work, so you can continue to believe in the Obamanation, despite the hip hop ties you claim to hate.

And Bobert, your spinning is looking pretty damn desperate.

What is the matter with just being honest about your disappointment and uneasiness?

Oh right, you are a black and white, all or nothing kind of guy. No nuances and complexities for the Mudcat hillbilly.

20 Apr 08 - 12:32 PM (#2320737)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Ron Davies

Janet--

"I started this thread" to discuss what Obama's candidacy means to the political zeitgeist..

Uh, sorry, you misspelled that. You actually started it since you're still full of impotent rage against the world in general and Obama in particular.

Have you considered starting your own website?--"Impotent Raging Alleged Feminists" Who knows--maybe your site won't be just a soliloquy.

20 Apr 08 - 12:40 PM (#2320742)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Donuel

IT seems to me that the Republican party always takes great interest in the penis of democratic Presidents.

I remember getting CNN and FOX updates on the findings by the White House physician that Bill Clinton's penis was normal.

How long will it take for the Republicans to take on Obama's penis???

Perhaps they are concerned it will be too big an issue to even bring up.

20 Apr 08 - 12:41 PM (#2320743)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Ron Davies

Though, admittedly, Janet, you're the only person I know who qualifies. Except possibly for the head of the New York chapter of NOW--you remember her--the one who described Ted Kennedy's support of Obama as "the ultimate betrayal". Perhaps you and she can have fun sputtering about various outrages.

20 Apr 08 - 12:42 PM (#2320746)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Or perhaps you are a bit too fixated with yours?

20 Apr 08 - 12:50 PM (#2320752)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Amos

What's so offensive about the JayZ lyrics posted below? I think they be cool.

A

20 Apr 08 - 12:50 PM (#2320753)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,TIA

I just reread the opening post. Seems to me this thread was started so that the author could 1) demonstrate that she was more hip and in-tune with today's youth than the rest of us old farts, and 2) create further opportunities to rail against Obama supporters.

20 Apr 08 - 01:09 PM (#2320771)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Yes, I was a bit fresh, wasn't I?

I happen to work in an inner city school of mostly African American kids, who were doing the brush off all day on Friday. When I asked them who they were brushin' off (knowing the Jay Z song, and that they rarely do that gesture themselves, even though their parents might), they told me their version of the Obama speech.

Which didn't exactly match the Washington Post version of events, but what the hell.

I am not of the hip hop generation, my daughter is. And she is only marginally into hip hop, preferring punk. But I live and work in the inner city, in an African American majority community. I am around this stuff all the time.

Does that make me cooler than thou?

Only if you are into that sort of thing, which I'm not.

But the point is, I have it on my radar. Most people here, don't seem to, hence the divide.

I don't see Obama in the same way the majority white population of Mudcat sees him--that has been clear from the beginning.

But then, I don't see John McCain the same way the majority white population of Mudcat sees him--

Or Hilary Clinton the same way the majority white population of Mudcat sees her--

Or Ralph Nader the same way the majority white population of Mudcat sees him--

And I hate Al Gore and John Kerry too--while must of the majority white population of Mudcat voted for them.

I didn't.

So, we aren't ever going to see things the same way.

That doesn't bother me one bit, but it sure bothers the majority of you who come here to find people who agree with you, and never challenge your opinions.

C'est l'internet.

20 Apr 08 - 01:34 PM (#2320792)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,lox

Fantasma,

The problem I find when I read through this thread (yes and follow the links) is that it is full of Hot Air and attempts to make sense of it.

"Come down off your high horses, people. It is clear you all didn't have ANY of this shit on your radar about Obama. If you did, you would be able to talk about it."

There's nothing to say.

He did it - it was funny - cool even - but sooo last week baby.

It won't start a revolution.

The most you can say about it politically is that it might have the effect of encouraging young people to get more interested in politics.

What it proves about you and/or other mudcatters is out of my radar.

We know that people here like folk cos it's a folk site.

Is that a surprise to you?

Do you think that people here expect a folk president?

Do you think people here are going to change their view of Obama out of Shock?

Oh my God - we didn't realize he liked ... aaaaaahhhh ... RAP!

Quick lets get chicken licken. ducky lucky, goosey loosey, etc etc etc and tell thhe president ...

... AAAAHHHHH ... Obama might be president one day!!!!!!

People on this site are (sadly for you) mutidimensional and not so easily pigeon holed I'm afraid and you will find consistently that attempts to do so will meet only with the type of responses you have received so far.

I asked you before what point you were trying to illustrate by posting the lyrics.

Same question, only differently phrased ...

... what are you on about? ...

Are you perhaps trying to say that Obama's use of Black Music is a cynical exploitation of his own culture to try and garner support from Black Voters?

How should he act?

Here is my extensive and well thought out response to the substantive aspect of thhis thread.

ready?

Thanks for the link.

... erm ...

.. that's it ...

20 Apr 08 - 01:43 PM (#2320800)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Look, it's a ready to rumble thing. Are Mudcat Obama supporters ready to go door knocking for the first hip hop president, or not?

Obama through down the gauntlet last Thursday in North Carolina.

You ready to rumble with him to get him elected?

Cuz the right wing is already using this one in their attack ads.

This is what it is going to take to get him elected in the general. Time to educate yourselves about YOUR guy. By summer, it's going to be about working the street.

20 Apr 08 - 02:02 PM (#2320816)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

And it will be one and long hot summer for our inner city kids in St Paul this year, as they play cat and mouse with the cops, in the lead up to the RNC.

I shudder to think what will happen to some of those kids this summer, when the cops come down on our neighborhood like a ton of bricks, to make the streets safe for Republicans.

That is what 'Straight Outta Compton' and 'Fuck da Police' was all about--and thanks to everyone willing to censor every damn thing they don't like (especially here at Mudcat), it ain't exactly gonna be the St Paul Summer of Love.

20 Apr 08 - 02:06 PM (#2320818)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

And here is a little reminder from the MTV Rock the Vote website:

A Brief History of Banned Music in the United States

In 1957, producers of the Ed Sullivan show decide that Elvis Presley can only be filmed from the waist up because of that special way he wiggles his hips.
-----
In 1966, Beatles albums are banned—and burned—after John Lennon proclaims that the band is more popular than Jesus.
-----
In 1968, radio stations in El Paso, Texas ban all Bob Dylan records because they can't understand a darn thing he's singing and think he might just be saying something that they don't like.
-----
In 1981, Olivia Newton John makes the folks in Salt Lake City a little too hot and heavy with her song "Physical" and it gets yanked from the airwaves in the city.
-----
Tipper Gore starts the Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) in 1985 to "encourage" record labels to monitor and rate their releases.
-----
In 1987, Jello Biafra of The Dead Kennedys is found not guilty of distributing pornography. The case is based on the album artwork for "Frankenchrist". However, the ruling comes after copies of the album have already been seized and destroyed.
-----
In 1990, the FBI lets rap group NWA know that they do not appreciate their song "Fuck the Police."
-----
That same year, record store employees are busted for selling copies of Two Live Crew albums in Florida, Alabama, and Tennessee. Members of the band, including front man Luther Campbell, are prosecuted for performing the "offensive" songs in concert.
-----
Wal-Mart bans a Sheryl Crow (a Rock the Vote board member) record because she makes her less than favorable opinion on their gun sales policy known.
-----
In 1997, the powers that be at Giants Stadium in New Jersey refuse to host OzzFest because Marilyn Manson is scheduled to perform—but the courts rule that they don't have the right to do so.
-----
In 1998, C-Bo is arrested for parole violation for including a lyric which criticizes California's "three strikes and you're out" law. According to the powers that be, the lyric advocated gang violence or violence against the police.
-----
In 2001, following the September 11th terrorist attacks, Clear Channel Communications, the largest owner of radio stations in the United States, releases a list of more than 150 "lyrically questionable" songs that station's may want to pull from their playlists. Few songs portray explicit violence, but most have metaphoric themes that ring a bit too close to the tragedies. The list, containing music from almost every genre in popular music, includes Sugar Ray's "Fly," "Jet Airliner" by Steve Miller, Nine Inch Nails' ; "Head Like a Hole," AC/DC 's "Shoot to Thrill" and "Highway to Hell," Pat Benatar's "Hit Me with Your Best Shot," "Dust in the Wind" by Kansas, Jerry Lee Lewis's "Great Balls of Fire," REM's "It's the End of the World as We Know It," "Only the Good Die Young" by Billy Joel, Dave Matthews Band's "Crash Into Me," "Nowhere to Run" by Martha & the Vandellas, and all songs by Rage Against The Machine.
Adapted from Eric Nunzun's "A Brief History of Banned Music in the United States".
-----
In March, 2003, country stations across the United States pulled the Dixie Chicks from playlists following reports that lead singer Natalie Maines said in a concert in London that she was "ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas" admist pre-war fervor over the United States' subsequent invasion of Iraq. Station managers said their decisions were prompted by calls from irate listeners who thought criticism of the president was unpatriotic.
[Source, CNN]

That same May, country music station KKCS, in Colorado, suspended two disc jockeys for playing songs by the Dixie Chicks in violation of a ban imposed by the station manager.

20 Apr 08 - 02:08 PM (#2320820)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,lox

This aspect of Obama constitutes 1 out of 360 degrees of his character.

What a shallow way of looking at him.

You really seem to be the one who is shocked and surprised by his association with Hip Hop.

You are demonstrating that it was way off your radar.

What do you want us to do - call a state of emergency?

Nobody is bothered.

They are taking it in their stride.

They have made much deeper much more substantive judgements than that.

I've just realized why Bobert is calling you racist.

You genuinely seem to bee suggesting that this association with Hip Hop and Jay-Z, and use of the term "twisting the knife" is something to be concerned about.

Is that your point?

There was more of value in the "man from the east" christian fundamentalist thread

20 Apr 08 - 02:22 PM (#2320825)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: meself

I listened to several seemingly heavyweight pundits on the radio this morning discussing Obama, Hilary, and McCain, recent developments in their campaigns, what lies ahead, etc., etc. There was no mention of brushing off dirt, twisting knives, "Jay-Z", or Hip Hop or banned music ...

This seems to me one of the weirder threads that Mudcat has produced ...

20 Apr 08 - 02:25 PM (#2320827)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Riginslinger

"What a shallow way of looking at him...(Obama)..."

Because he's proven himself to be shallow!

20 Apr 08 - 03:20 PM (#2320878)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Don Firth

The point I was making, GUEST,Fantasmagoria, is that your attempting to associate Barack Obama in any important way with Hip-Hop/Rap appears to me to be yet another example of negative campaigning on your part. Dirty politics. Wallowing in manure, as I said. By "manure," I am not referring to Hip-Hop/Rap (admittedly, I am not a fan), but to your tactics.

You've already gone on record on other threads and under other names (GUEST,Guess who I am this time) as pushing Ralph Nader, and have personally and collectively attacked anyone who doesn't think Nader has a ghost of a chance (characteristically pulling about 2% of the vote on a good day) or would make a good president even if he did win.

I'd be more impressed if you were trying to convince me of why I should vote for Nader than I am with your repeated attempts to trash the other candidates. Rummaging aroung to find cheesy ways to trash other candidates is the nature of dirty politics. That's why I asked you if you were working for Karl Rove.

Don Firth

20 Apr 08 - 03:56 PM (#2320898)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Ebbie

Don, I am quite sure that if we all switched to Ralph Nader this person would immediately and vociferously find all kinds of reasons why we were all unrealistic, uninformed, naiive, and just plain dumb. This person has no allegiance to anything that I can perceive.

20 Apr 08 - 04:16 PM (#2320913)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Don Firth

That's my assessment too, Ebbie. Just another troll.

Don Firth

20 Apr 08 - 04:27 PM (#2320921)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

And what I am saying is some of you seem so far removed from the Obama youth vote and Obama urban black vote that has catapulted him to front runner status, that you aren't seeing your candidate accurately, much less the realities of the general election campaign.

People here, from what I can tell, view hip hop with contempt. Not only does your candidate NOT view hip hop with contempt, he embraces it. And is using the street organizations of the hip hop and indie music movement to do his grass roots organizing.

And no, you won't hear about that on National Public Radio.

Obama wouldn't be the front runner without hip hop. It is that simple. It is the hip hop street organizing model that is propelling his youth campaign forward. And the best thing about it for Obama is, they work for free, unlike ward bosses and election workers in Philly, who expect some money up front for making calls and driving voters on election day.

Now, unfortunately for hip hop the art form, what started out as a gritty portrayal of what was really happening on the streets has been perverted in less than two decades into a a seamy world of get rich quick corporate clowns, rapping about which ho wears their chain (like Jay Z, for instance, whom I believe is one of the clowns making billions out of his gangsta thug persona).

But fortunately for Obama, because that group IS so superficial, and so about whatever is the cool thing of the moment, he is it. So he has the support of the kids on the street, and their college campus wannabes, who are most beholden to the Brand Hip Hop that has become a tool to oppress and distract an entire generation of youth, especially young kids of color.

These politically activie Millenium kids are already organized, but not in political parties--they stay far from them. They are still, for the most part, an underground force. They are off the radar of philanthropists, party fundraisers and organizers, etc.

But Obama, with his connections in community organizations in Chicago, knows people who know them. So he has been able to mobilize them in his campaign. Which is how the Philly Inquirer ended up running an article this weekend on how a 19 year old Mass college kid could end up running a precinct campaign office for Obama, and alienate the Democratic party regulars from the 'hood by not playing the politics as usual game in what is still very much a Democratic party machine town.

But if you dinofolk wanna diss me in order to keep your heads buried in the sand about all this, go right ahead.

It's a beautiful spring day here, and I am all over and out.

20 Apr 08 - 04:28 PM (#2320922)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST

100.

Slammin' the door on my way outta here too.

20 Apr 08 - 04:31 PM (#2320925)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Oh, yeah. One other thing. I remember how y'all reacted when I railed against the 2000 DNC "free speech zone" and how I cheered for Rage Against the Machine getting in the face of the Dem elite in LA.

You didn't give a shit about the censorship and locking out of youth then, did you?

Nah, just like you don't give a shit about them now, except to use them so your boy will win.

Seen it all before here. Mudcat's True Blue Liberal colors are showing again, and man are they shoddy, threadbare, and worn the fuck out.

20 Apr 08 - 04:32 PM (#2320926)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: CarolC

I'm guessing Jay Z got that phrase and gesture from the cultural milieu that Bobert has described. So who is to say where Obama got it? Nobody really can say for certain. And frankly, I don't really care. It's a good phrase and gesture, and if more people took that attitude in our political discourse, I think this country would be a better place.

I would say this regardless of whether or not I was voting for Obama.

20 Apr 08 - 04:51 PM (#2320940)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: katlaughing

Can Hip Hop Help Get Out the Vote?

Luring Young Voters to the Poll

Careful...you might have to actually listen in order to get the connection on NPR...

20 Apr 08 - 04:56 PM (#2320944)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Don Firth

I'm not at all surprised that Barack Obama is aware of various aspects of popular culture (I would be surprised, and perhaps a bit disappointed if he were not), but since he is a very intelligent person, I'm quite sure he doesn't derive the basis of his personal philosophical position from Hip-Hop/Rap. He's far more intelligent than that.

As to what GUEST,Fantasmagoofball is ranting and raving on about, to register on any meter at all, the level of my concern is measurable only in micro-give a shits.

Don Firth

20 Apr 08 - 05:03 PM (#2320946)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: artbrooks

OK, Senator Obama has the hip-hop vote, he has the urban black vote, he has the rural black vote, he has the educated youth vote, he has the young and middle-aged professional vote, he has the liberal military vote, he has the old folkie vote. Can you say (or even spell) inclusive?

20 Apr 08 - 05:12 PM (#2320956)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Amos

Rig:

Your remark that Obama has proven himself to be shallow is indefensible and I must assume not genuinely believed even by you.

Your sense of humor really needs repair, pal.

Shallow, my royal Irish butt....

You are either woefully in the dark about the person you are maligning, or your colon has been forcing your head into a corkscrew sort of shape...

A

20 Apr 08 - 05:17 PM (#2320963)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor

The young people that got me interested in Obama are string cheese incident fans. They rarely if ever listen to Hip Hop. Dave Matthews and Bruce Springsteen, Quincy Jones, Will.I.Am and Lenny Kavitz's daughter are making music nad drawing support for Obama. Their music is not "street". It is absurd to say that Obama's gains among youth are attributable to a single type of music.

20 Apr 08 - 05:18 PM (#2320964)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Don Firth

Touche! there, Kat!

It's not surprising that GUEST,Fantasizing is unaware of what's on NPR. I guess she doesn't have a radio with her down there under the bed along with the dead spiders and dust-bunnies. Only an mp3 player.

I'm really amazed at how much time she has to devote to this.

And Amos. I think there's a lot of that going around. . . .

Don Firth

20 Apr 08 - 05:20 PM (#2320966)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Riginslinger

I think the Jeremia Wright thing, along with the staetment to leave the Office of Faith Based Initiatives open has shaped my view of Obama.

20 Apr 08 - 05:26 PM (#2320971)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: dick greenhaus

Riginslinger-

Real Men

In 1961, a young African-American man, after hearing President John F. Kennedy's challenge to, 'Ask not what your country can do
for you, but what you can do for your country,' gave up his student deferment, left college in Virginia and voluntarily joined the
Marines.

In 1963, this man, having completed his two years of service in the Marines, volunteered again to become a Navy corpsman. (They
provide medical assistance to the Marines as well as to Navy personnel.)

The man did so well in corpsman school that he was the valedictorian and became a cardiopulmonary technician. Not surprisingly, he
was assigned to the Navy's premier medical facility, Bethesda Naval Hospital, as a member of the commander in chief's medical team,
and helped care for President Lyndon B. Johnson after his 1966 surgery.

For his service on the team, which he left in 1967, the White House awarded him three letters of commendation.

What is even more remarkable is that this man entered the Marines and Navy not many years after the two branches began to become
integrated.

While this young man was serving six years on active duty, Vice President Dick Cheney, who was born the same year as the
Marine/sailor, received five deferments, four for being an undergraduate and graduate student and one for being a prospective
father.

Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, both five years younger than the African-American youth, used their student deferments
to stay in college until 1968. Both then avoided going on active duty through family connections.

Who is the real patriot? The young man who interrupted his studies to serve his country for six years or our three political
leaders who beat the system? Are the patriots the people who actually sacrifice something or those who merely talk about their love
of the country?

After leaving the service of his country, the young African-American finished his final year of college, entered the seminary, was
ordained as a minister, and eventually became pastor of a large church in one of America's biggest cities.

This man is Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the retiring pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ

20 Apr 08 - 05:50 PM (#2320981)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Bobert

I think, Fantz, that you over-generalizing about Obama's relationship to hip-hop/rap and over-generalizing about hip hop/rap as well...

Like I have pointed out, we live in a trivalized world with a long menu of products and entertainment... I appreciate some hip hop and some rap... My son, IMO, writes better that Z-Jay...

If Obama started re3ferring to Michelle Obama as his "Bitch" then I'll get off his bandwagon... If he starts referring to Condi Rice as a "Nappy headed ho" or other black men as "Niggas", I jump off the bandwagon...

You are trying to paint him into a corner of your choosing...

If I were to follow you around for a day ot two and record evertything you said and did ansd turned it over to a team of attack dogs they would surely find many non-starters with which to build a negative attack... Same with Clinton...

What you fail to realize is that Obama is doing not much more than counter=punching... He's not the one "getting off first" (boxing term) but defending himself...

These are non issues that you and yer buds Hillary and McNasty delight in bringing up...

It's old school politics...

And, for the record, you still owe Obama an apology for your "Your boy won" comment... That was racist... You know it... I know it and everyone here knows it was racist... There's absolutely no wiggle room on that one... Hip hop or not it was racist...

BTW, Part Whatever, how can you justify using hip-hop, a "contemporaray" music form to justify "old school" politics...

And BTW, for the record I am also considered an "Indie artist"...

B~

20 Apr 08 - 05:51 PM (#2320982)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: artbrooks

Rev. Wright's statements sound pretty egregious, when taken as sound bites, but they are much less objectionable (I won't say that they are entirely unobjectionable) if one takes the time to read the entire segments of his sermons from which they are taken. This is certainly inflammatory, but it is hardly an unconditional curse upon the United States:

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

20 Apr 08 - 06:01 PM (#2320991)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Bad guess, CarolC. Jay Z is flippin' off the people who dare to criticize his brand of thuggery. Jay Z is the problem, NOT the solution for chrissake. Just like Oprah is the problem, and not the solution.

And you know what, artbrooks? Obama may well have all those folks in his back pocket.

But he doesn't have Maya Angelou's vote.

And people should be asking themselves why.

Maya Angelou isn't one of the Bill Cosby black conservatives steeped in the black nationalist separatist tradition of "segregation wasn't so bad".

She isn't one of the 70% of African Americans whom, in true conservative reactionary mode, regularly denounce rap and hip hop as a corrupting influence, the same way whites do.

She doesn't even issue blanket condemnations of hip hop from her high, lofty perch among the American literary giants.

Imagine that. One of the last living scions of a generation of the Black Arts Movement, one of the last living grande dames of the Civil Rights Era. And even though her family and friends are all voting for Obama, she is not.

Now, it isn't my intention to put her on a pedastal for that, not by a long shot. But to understand why she is making that choice, you need to know a bit about African American history. You have to know that black conservatism is a tradition that winds it's way back, and includes Bill Cosby and Obama, Amiri Baraka and August Wilson, Louis Farrakahn and Jeremiah Wright, back to Malcolm X, Marcus Garvey, and Booker T. Washington.

But that those folks don't represent the black liberal integrationist philosophy, especially those of the other half of the 60s Civil Rights Movement, including Martin Luther King, Ralph Ellison, and stretching back to W.E.B. DuBois.

Yet, Maya Angelou, Josephine Baker, Ida B. Wells, and Sojourner Truth don't fit easily within either of those two male dominated pantheons of African American History. But Zora Neale Hurston quite comfortably does fit within the conservative Booker T. Washington/Bill Cosby on Pound Cake pantheon (though she wasn't a huge fan of Marcus Garvey's ability to pocket the peoples' monies in his own pocket).

What I, and I think Riginslinger too (and some others here, who have expressed reservations about him, but may yet vote for him) have recognized about Obama, is his brand of inclusivity is a mile wide and an inch deep. His political ideology seems more firmly rooted in the prevailing winds, than in any moral ground, much less the high one.

The Hip Hop Nation, such as it is, is every bit as complex and diverse as any other aspect of African American history. It is true many black nationalist conservatives, urban, suburban, and rural, have flocked to Obama. And why wouldn't they? He is one of them.

But some very thoughtful, wise, and intellectual powerhouses of the black intelligentsia have not leapt on board, and the train is pulling out of the station.

Why not dare take a look at what they have to say?

20 Apr 08 - 06:10 PM (#2321005)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Bobert

not "trivalized", though that almost works too... It was supposed to come out "tribalized", as in one big dysfuntional "tribe"... lol...

20 Apr 08 - 06:15 PM (#2321010)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Maya Angelou has said:

"Lyrical poetry is out for the time being, and something that is called rap or hip-hop is in. It is still poetry, and we can't live without it. We need language to tell us who we are, how we feel, what we're capable of — to explain the pains and glory of our existence."

and then, she has also said...

[Disagreeing with Russell Simmons' comment that "comparing Don Imus' language with hip hop artists' artistic expression is misguided and inaccurate,"] Maya Angelou on the CBS Evening News also said:

"It's all the same. All vulgarity is vulgarity. If you mean to demean a person, to make her or him less than whole — anyone could say it, you could say it from a robot — it means that this person is not worthy of my concern. But at last we're going to have a dialogue, I'm telling you. Nelly, P. Diddy, Snoop Dogg — all of those men, who are very intelligent — and I include Dave Chappelle — for the first time we are going to sit down and see how have we come so late and lonely to this place. I would ask the hip hoppers, if you wanted to say something and see how powerful you are, use Ms. Laura Bush and call her one of those "b-" words — and see how long you will live. There wouldn't be enough rope to hang your butts. No. But black women, because we are last on the totem pole, everyone has a chance to take a chance on us. Well, not now."

20 Apr 08 - 06:19 PM (#2321015)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

And bless her soul, she also said:

"I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass."

20 Apr 08 - 06:37 PM (#2321030)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: CarolC

Bad guess, CarolC. Jay Z is flippin' off the people who dare to criticize his brand of thuggery.

That may be so, but that doesn't tell us where he, himself got the phrase... only how he, himself, is using it. He probably got it from the same milieu as the one in which Bobert first heard it. Obama can just as easily have gotten it first from that milieu as well. We really have no way of knowing.

20 Apr 08 - 06:43 PM (#2321036)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Don Firth

Thanks, Dick, for that background on Rev. Wright. An object lesson in how badly off the mark one can be by simply ignoring the entirity of a fellow human being's life and judging him or her by one comment they happen to have made.

Doing so shows how shallow some people are. Or in the current political context, how shallow the negative political manipulators hope other people are.

Don Firth

20 Apr 08 - 06:43 PM (#2321037)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Ah, I see. Now Bobert is an expert folklorist in African and African American Culture? I must have missed his article in my last issue of Smithsonian.

20 Apr 08 - 06:46 PM (#2321041)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: CarolC

Ah, I see. Now Bobert is an expert folklorist in African and African American Culture?

That's a straw man argument. He doesn't need to be an expert folklorist in African and African American culture to know and remember under what circumstances he first heard a phrase being used.

20 Apr 08 - 06:51 PM (#2321044)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: pdq

"...black conservatism is a tradition that winds it's way back, and includes Bill Cosby and Obama, Amiri Baraka and August Wilson, Louis Farrakahn and Jeremiah Wright, back to Malcolm X, Marcus Garvey, and Booker T. Washington."

To the untrained eye, the comonality of these people is not readily obvious. Perhaps one might elucidate?

20 Apr 08 - 06:52 PM (#2321046)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Ebbie

The day, Fanny, that you are as wise and insightful as Bobert is is the day I say something nice about you. Yoo, madam, are missing a few pegs.

20 Apr 08 - 06:55 PM (#2321051)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

No, you just prefer his rationalizing. He don't know jack about African American culture.

Here is a post from the Green Commons website (yes, THAT dirty, filthy Green Party that everyone here loves to hate), from African American Green Party blogger, Alex Walker. I saved it from last fall, because it rang so true to me, and it was posted just prior to my family being flooded out of our home--which just makes it personally memorable to me, of course.

Obama and Oprah -- As Far As You Can Get From South Central Los Angeles.

Submitted by AlexWalker on Tue, 09/11/2007 - 4:53pm.

Democratic Sen. Barack Obama raised an estimated $3 million at a fund-raiser hosted by TV mogul, Oprah Winfrey last week. See below a description by Varsha Rao posted over the weekend on The Huffington Post. It is such a disgusting, nauseating celebration of capitalist wealth and celebrity it's enough to take your breath away. By the way, it is a measure of the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of my fellow African-Americans that I have not found a single criticism of this decadent display on the usual Black-oriented web sites or blogs. Break out your handkerchiefs when you read the part where Oprah "with emotion" told the glitterati she feels "blessed to be living the dream that Martin Luther King, Jr. made possible."

Dear Friends: This is about as far as you can get from South Central Los Angeles or Brooklyn or Southside Chicago.

20 Apr 08 - 07:09 PM (#2321060)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Read it again...the part that says "black conservative tradition..."

That is the common thread.

20 Apr 08 - 07:20 PM (#2321064)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,lox

OK Dino girl,

You get back to teaching in your classroom, where I'm sure the kids look to you for urban culture guidance, what with you being so hip and everything and chill with them yeah?...

... And I'll go back to my extensive hip hop Crew, with roots going back nearly 20 years and with young kids coming through every day trying their luck as performers ... and tell them that our cover has been blown ...

The self appointed mudcat authority on Hip Hop has looked out of her classroom window and seen the truth about disconnected old folks ...

And she doesn't like me much or she would have acknowledged one of my posts by now.

Sorry, but you have been well and truly made a mockery of.

1. Somebody else got there first with the video and they explored this issue in more interesting depth than you.

2. you accuse us of not having it on our radar when it is there on record that you zipped straight over it when it was first posted whilst everyone else was checking it out.

3. You claim to be the one with the hip hop credentials when in reality you are a school teacher who is probably viewed as a dinosaur by her kids - While I have extensive experience in hip hop and am connected in the industry - hence I know what I'm talking about.

You have still not made a clear point.

I'm outta here guys - have fun with her.

Oh and ringinslinger - Lovely Irony that you should in turn post such a shallow view.

20 Apr 08 - 07:23 PM (#2321067)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: pdq

You seem to saying that

"black integrationist philosophy = liberal

black nationalist separatist tradition = conservative"

and I find that hard to support. Obama, Cosby, Oprah, Carver and others were/are quite well assimulated. Farrakan and Malcolm Little, not. I am not joining the attack on you at all, I just don't see the connection unless you simply call anyone you disrespect a conservative.

20 Apr 08 - 08:17 PM (#2321095)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Quite the contrary, I have a tremendous amount of respect for Malcolm X. But not for Farrakahn.

And it isn't me who made it all up, pdq. Just like there are white social conservatives who vote for the Democratic party, and white social liberals, who vote their class interests with the Republicans, there is that same complexity among blacks too.

But nationalism is always traditionalist and conservative, whether it is black nationalist, British or Irish nationalist, or Chinese nationalist.

And yes, the American black separatists have historically been, for the most part, quite moralistic and socially conservative (the part I didn't like about Malcolm X). The American black integrationists a little less moralistic (? but maybe not), and more socially liberal. As a rule of thumb. But they are all individuals first.

Which is why individuals don't fit real well into stereotypes. Even guests of Mudcat who piss you off.

20 Apr 08 - 08:23 PM (#2321098)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

But, I should also have said, most, if not all of the people I mentioned, did/do see themselves as part and parcel of an American black intellectual/philosophical tradition of one sort or another.

Again though, I have to point out that many of the most influential American black women were often not included in the pantheon created by the American black male intelligentsia, and were often outcasts in what should have been their own natural community of intellectuals.

20 Apr 08 - 08:24 PM (#2321099)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: pdq

"Even guests of Mudcat who piss you off."

Please don't jump to conclusions on that point. I have never read a post of yours that would piss me off, believe it or not.

That said, I still don't see much commonality among the people mentioned, but such is life.

20 Apr 08 - 08:32 PM (#2321105)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: McGrath of Harlow

"But nationalism is always traditionalist and conservative" but quite frequently liberal at the same time. There is no intrinsic incompatibility between those attitudes.

20 Apr 08 - 08:42 PM (#2321112)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Bobert

Well, well, well (from the late R, L. Burnside, btw...Oh. how I hate givin' up my secrets...lol...)

In a way I am very much a folklorist of black history... Anyone who has seen me perform knows that because I talk alot about black history as I perform country blues... Almost all of my music was written a long time ago... My heros were black men tryin' to carve out little niche for themselves playing in juke joints and maybe be recorded by the local furniture builder (the first record makers, btw) or by Alan Lomax in the various penetenuries thru out the South...I have spent alot of time trying to learn as much as I can about the erra when my heros lives and I've spent alot of time on it...

But forget self-testimonials...

What this comes down to isn't whether Obama learned to shake the dust from a preacher or a hip hopper even tho I'd bet that the hip hopper learned it from his parents or grandparents... What matters is that it is a ********non issue********!!! Period...........

That's right.... It doesn't mean a rats ass to 45M people without health insurance... It doesn't mean rat's ass to the drastic redestrubution of wealth in America toward the wealthy, or tax codes that the corportists have had put in place to protect them....

The problem I have with Fantz is that she would rather keep distratcions front and center when it come to Obama... She claims to be an equal opportunity cnadidate hater but puts about 99% into hatin' Obama... Somehting wrong here that don't take the Wes Ginny Slide Rule to figure out...

B~

20 Apr 08 - 08:47 PM (#2321115)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Ebbie

Man. Fantasia, now you are quoting a blogger ("a failed computer programmer") and carefully not citing where he got his opinions. Varsha Rao, the one who wrote the account of the Obama fundraiser gave a different view of it. Ok, it was kind of ga ga but the fundraiser was legit. Oh, and the $3 million? The tickets for the fundraiser, according to Rao, were $2,300 which is/was estimated to have amounted to the 3 mil. I don't know if they passed the hat in addition.

Varsha Rao: At the Oprah/Obama fundraiser

20 Apr 08 - 08:50 PM (#2321116)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: artbrooks

Liberal and conservative (in the non-UK sense, at least) are essentially meaningless labels. Those who use them about themselves rarely mean the same thing as those who use them as pointers for the things they denigrate, regardless of which end of the socio-political spectrum they may be. Most individuals have a mixture of positions on various topics, some of which may fall into one box or the other, but seldom are they completely one or the other. For example, most of the people here at Mudcat would consider themselves generally liberal, yet a very large number appear to favor individual ownership of firearms (as a Constitutional "right" or otherwise). Even progressives, which is what those on the right are really referring to when they say "liberal", are rarely pure.

20 Apr 08 - 09:08 PM (#2321126)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

Why pdq, what a refreshing admission!

I went searching through my Netvouz, and found the article I just read about the black conservative tradition. I thought it was a way old article, because it was talking about the Cosby speech but it ended up being the May 2008 issue of The Atlantic, given to me by a colleague. I get a lot of this sort of stuff across my desk, due to the 'achievement gap' thing.

So here is the article, which is titled "'This Is How We Lost to the White Man"

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200805/cosby

Everything I said above isn't in this article, but it does give a quick once over to that "tradition of black conservative thought" I am so inarticulately trying to describe here.

Hope it helps.

20 Apr 08 - 09:11 PM (#2321128)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasm

Riginslinger, I too am deeply disturbed by and mistrustful of the faith based initiative crap.

We just got another directive from the home office (also known as the district supt) last week to "reach out" to area churches as partners in closing the achievement gap.

My ass, I will.

I'm happy to hook the boys up with more stuff to read by Jorge Diaz, though.

20 Apr 08 - 09:14 PM (#2321130)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

And to hook up the girls w/some Sister Souljah and Ntozake Shange.

20 Apr 08 - 09:44 PM (#2321146)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: pdq

Bill Cosby gave a speech to the graduating class of Howard University back in 1996. The speech runs 59 minutes and can be found in VHS format in most college libraries. He uses the phrase "are you dead?" several times to describe the debased culture that was growing in his community. He even calls SnoopDogg E Dog (or whatever the jerk was called at the time) "Snoop Eats Dog Poop". Great speech. I have not seen the video portion, but the audio was quite powerful. Here is a description:

""As part of a Howard University leadership seminar, Bill Cosby spoke to the students about taking responsibility in their lives. He spoke about rock music lyrics, gangs, drugs, sex, values, leadership and action. He continuously urged students not to be passive in response to the music, words and actions of those to whom they listen. He asked rhetorically: "Are you dead?" His talk contained many humorous and mocking references to current political and cultural figures." Notes: Broadcast at Howard University on 4/8/96. Produced by Purdue Research Foundation and C-SPAN."

20 Apr 08 - 10:12 PM (#2321158)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Charley Noble

Dick-

Belated thanks for posting some background information with regard to Rev. Wright. It's a lot easier now to see him as a real person rather than some caricature.

Charley Noble

20 Apr 08 - 10:15 PM (#2321162)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

This was another speech he gave, also infamous, and is the source of my pound cake reference. The Atlantic article is partly about a speech he gave last summer, that the article's author attended.

20 Apr 08 - 10:16 PM (#2321164)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Riginslinger

"We just got another directive from the home office (also known as the district supt) last week to "reach out" to area churches as partners in closing the achievement gap."

Fantasm - Are you mandated to bring them out of the dark ages, and how much time are you allotted to do that?

20 Apr 08 - 10:42 PM (#2321178)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Fantasma

;)

There is, of course, absolutely no evidence whatsoever that these partnerships do a damn thing for student achievement. Because despite the few studies anyone has bothered to conduct that are credible, what they show is nobody has a fucking clue what works.

And mostly, nothing has worked to close the achievement gap.

But I'm sure the Lord and Jesus will be getting around to it one of these days, aren't you?

20 Apr 08 - 10:56 PM (#2321182)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Ron Davies

As has been pointed out, it's a lovely irony that both Janet and Rig think Obama is "shallow".

It's perfect projection. To find the essence of shallowness, all Janet and/or Rig have to do is look in the mirror.

As they have most wonderfully proven.

It is certainly too bad that their basic philosophy prohibits actually thinking before hitting "send".

But it's obviously not worth my time--or probably anybody else's-- to try to instruct them--though they are obviously in dire need of it.

Janet--please tell us when you open your website for raging, impotent, more-feminist than-thou idiots. Even though its membership may be limited to just you and the president of the NY chapter of NOW. With perhaps a guest appearance once in a while by Carville.

Sleep tight.

20 Apr 08 - 11:10 PM (#2321186)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Don Firth

I've crossed the boredom threshhold. Time to move on to other things.

Don Firth

21 Apr 08 - 08:46 AM (#2321419)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Bobert

Ditto...

21 Apr 08 - 08:49 AM (#2321422)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Bobert

...or better put, think I'll "brush the dirt" off my shoulders...

B;~)

21 Apr 08 - 11:24 AM (#2321541)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: mg

Wouldn't it more likely be dandruff on your shoulders than dirt? Unless you are an arborist or coal miner, you probably would not have much dirt on your shoulders...mg

21 Apr 08 - 12:24 PM (#2321588)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Riginslinger

I don't know. If you were hanging around with Jeremia Wright it could be pigeon droppings :-)

21 Apr 08 - 01:09 PM (#2321628)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,TIA

I think we should be far more concerned that Obama flipped Hillary the bird just a few moments before brushing his shoulder. Go watch the video, and you will see it!

21 Apr 08 - 01:35 PM (#2321661)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: McGrath of Harlow

Surely the shoulder dirt is a matter of incontinent pigeons. So the bird fits in.

21 Apr 08 - 03:50 PM (#2321822)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: CarolC

He didn't flip her the bird. He scratched his face (with two fingers).

21 Apr 08 - 03:55 PM (#2321827)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Jack the Sailor

I think that if you think you see Obama flipping the bird in that video, it says a lot more about what you WANT TO SEE than what Obama was trying to communicate.

This is one of the many many Videos of the alleged event.

This was my response at the time.

This person does a much more thorough job.

21 Apr 08 - 04:15 PM (#2321854)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: McGrath of Harlow

Two fingers? Barack is clearly an Anglophile!

21 Apr 08 - 04:26 PM (#2321870)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Jack the Sailor

Is it two fingers in Britain?

Good thing Raleigh, North Carolina is just named after an Englishman.

21 Apr 08 - 04:31 PM (#2321884)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: McGrath of Harlow

It is indeed. V sign cartoons.

21 Apr 08 - 04:36 PM (#2321895)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Jack the Sailor

Its a good thing Barack kept his fingers together.

21 Apr 08 - 05:12 PM (#2321941)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,TIA

I know, he probably just scratched his cheek. But if we was doing the class clown "maintain plausible deniability" version, I'm kind of proud of him.

21 Apr 08 - 05:19 PM (#2321946)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Don Firth

Right! This could have caused an international incident!!

Don Firth

21 Apr 08 - 05:32 PM (#2321955)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor

The comments about Hillary "in her element" and the brush the shoulders were bad enough. I know that he has to prove to the Superdelegates that he can fight back. But I am getting tired of his sniping as well as hers.

21 Apr 08 - 07:21 PM (#2322060)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Don Firth

I knew a guy who, when he was really ticked off at someone, would hold up all five fingers and say, "Treat the family!"

Don Firth

21 Apr 08 - 10:21 PM (#2322191)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: CarolC

I sometimes hold up three and say, "read between the lines".

21 Apr 08 - 11:44 PM (#2322217)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Ron Davies

The comment about Hillary being "in her element" slinging dirt is totally germane. It illustrates exactly one of the top problems with her candidacy--she thinks the only way to get anything done is to fight--and usually fight dirty. And he's trying to get beyond that.

And it's about time.

21 Apr 08 - 11:58 PM (#2322226)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: katlaughing

If that is true, it may be she is that way due to being in the forefront of equal rights for women when if a woman wanted to make it in a man's world, she had to fight dirt with dirt to get ahead. If that is so, we all owe her a debt for getting to where she is and I do salute her for that. It's a shame that young women take so much for granted and haven't a clue what women before them have gone through to earn them their place in society. I remember not getting hired because I might get pregnant. I also remember not being able to get birth control without my parent's permission until I was married at 17 and had my 19 year old husband's permission! There are many more instances like that that young women just don't encounter any more. Whether I want Senator Clinton in as president or not, I do admire her for her drive, ambition, and assertiveness.

In a way, she can't win for trying. If she didn't fight dirty, they'd ridicule her for being too nice, for being a pollyanna, all sweetness and light, as if those are bad attributes. But, when she fights them the way they fight, she gets knocked down for that. IF she were a man, they'd think business as usual.

22 Apr 08 - 12:08 AM (#2322230)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: CarolC

I was uncomfortable with his comments about her being in her element, etc. I think he could have done the brushing dirt off his shoulder thing much more effectively had he not accompanied it with those remarks. I think this particular election has a very big instant-karma kind of thing going on. He seems to do better when he stays above comments like those. That kind of thing comes back to bite whoever does it in the ass in this election (in terms of voter approval). That's one thing I like about this election cycle.

On a slightly different note, here's a really good video that shows what it is that he does, I think, better than anyone else. He should stick to this kind of thing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CB1RJBuWYbA&feature=related

On yet another note, ever notice how incredibly perfect his speaking style is for putting to music? I've never seen anything quite like it.

22 Apr 08 - 07:48 AM (#2322435)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Ron Davies

Other commentators have already noted that actually Hillary's approach is the traditional "male" attitude--fight for everything. While Obama's is the "female" approach--build consensus.

No question which the country wants--and needs--now.

22 Apr 08 - 08:42 AM (#2322467)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Bobert

Good points, both Kat and Ron...

22 Apr 08 - 09:28 AM (#2322499)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Donuel

His appearence on the Daily Show last night was a perfect balance of humilty, humore and sincerety.

22 Apr 08 - 09:43 AM (#2322519)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor

I don't think Hillary's being behind has as much to do with here being a woman as it does with her personality and her qualifications and lack thereof.

Will Michelle Obama be qualified for President in eight years? First lady experience is a very dubious claim. A lot of people gave her a break because of their familiarity with her. But she tried one major initiative in her first year, health care, and screwed it up so bad that she never tried another important thing in the following seven years.

Her criticisms of Obama don't work because they don't hold water. Being slick Willy's wife does not make you ready on day one. Throwing the kitchen sink at someone and throwing tantrums rather than discussing the issues rather than discussing the issues does not give one license to say "if you can't stand the heat." The fact is she was complaining about the coverage and the "piling on" for nearly a year, her campaign even produced an ad called piling on. Which brings me to the reason she is losing.

She keeps accusing Obama of having her own apparent weaknesses. She is just not the politician that her Husband or Obama. She simply does not have the required skills to be President. She has ridden her husband's skills a long way. She was 20 points ahead and had a huge financial lead when the race started. But she has to get that final step based on her own charm. The problem, she simply is not very charming.

22 Apr 08 - 10:26 AM (#2322546)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor

the Daily Show got the finger thing right, then wrong, then the interviewed Obama, then they got the the finger thing right again.

go to www.thedailyshow.com. It will be up on the first page of their site untit the morning of April 23, not long after that it will be in their archives.

22 Apr 08 - 01:21 PM (#2322697)
Subject: RE: BS: Obama Brushes Dirt Off His Shoulders
From: Amos

SPeaking of shedding dirt that has been slung at Obama, here is a very rational, not to say wise, interview with Pastor Wright which shows in high relilef wehat a load of bollocks the right-wing-cum-Hillary hate campaign around him is.

It is heartbreaking to see so much antipathy being needlessly manufactured, as some sort of necessary coin of the political realm. Where on earth did we learn to hate so well?

A