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13 May 08 - 01:10 PM (#2339434) Subject: What is an Irish Air? From: GUEST,Arkie I have seen tunes defined as Irish Airs. What factors determine this description? Is it simply a melody played at a slow tempo? Is the air played in 2/4, 3/4, 4/4 timing or something different? Also what determines whether a tune is a "waltz"? Is every melody composed in 3/4 time a waltz or is there some other criterion? Thankss for your help with this. |
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13 May 08 - 01:18 PM (#2339440) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: PoppaGator I'll take a stab at this, but I'm NOT an authority. My understanding of the term "air" is that it means a melody or tune, and is used in reference both to the melodies of songs which also have lyrics as well as to purely instrumental tunes. In fact, I believe that the common use of the word "tune" in Anglo/Celtic folk-music circles as referring specifically to instrumental pieces without vocal parts is why the alternative term "air" is used in reference to melodies considered on their own, whether or not they are customarily performed with or without words. Some people, if not all of them, use the word "waltz" to refer to anything in 3/4 time. I would be interested in learning what criteria, if any, might be used to differentiate "true" waltzes from other 3/4-time pieces. |
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13 May 08 - 01:37 PM (#2339457) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: The Sandman airs should be played freely,there is an example on my website,Cape Clearhttp://www.dickmiles.com |
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13 May 08 - 01:38 PM (#2339458) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: MMario I googled "waltz" and found this additional information: "having one chord per measure, with the root of the chord being the first note of the measure." |
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13 May 08 - 01:39 PM (#2339459) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: The Sandman waltzes have the emphasis on the first beat.Mazurkas are also in3/4 time,but have a different emphasis. |
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13 May 08 - 01:59 PM (#2339476) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Geoff Wallis Within Ireland the term 'air' is generally used to refer to the tune of a song, especially those derived from the sean-nós tradition. |
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13 May 08 - 02:04 PM (#2339482) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Peace Here's an example. |
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13 May 08 - 02:26 PM (#2339497) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: catspaw49 A rich concoction of semi-breathable gases emanating from selected pubs composed of the smell of aged oak, strong tobacco, stale whiskey, and essence of ale vomit. Spaw |
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13 May 08 - 09:18 PM (#2339872) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: GUEST,Arkie Thanks to all for the help. Would it be accurate to say that "air" is an expression used by the Irish for a song or tune? Is "If Ever You Were Mine" an air or a waltz? |
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13 May 08 - 10:31 PM (#2339922) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Sorcha I'd say an aire....but it could be danced to as a waltz. And yes, an Aire/air is generally slower....and played 'freely' as to time.... |
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13 May 08 - 11:51 PM (#2339947) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: JedMarum It is commonly used to mean simply; tune. Any poem, any story needs an air to be become a song. It may well have had various additional definitions - but now-a-days you'll see it commonly used as a synonym for tune. |
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14 May 08 - 12:44 AM (#2339960) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: GUEST,Q as guest What is a Scottish air? What is a French air? JedMarum says it clearly. Sometimes it means the writer thinks the tune used in a song is Irish or Ukrainian or whatever, but doesn't really know. |
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14 May 08 - 12:52 AM (#2339964) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Escapee I used to play in a mostly Polish wedding band and we played something called ( I think ) a helvetic or something like that. It was a dance in 3/4 time but faster than a waltz. It had a Polish air about it. SKP |
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14 May 08 - 01:12 AM (#2339969) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Seamus Kennedy But then there's the SLOW air... Seamus |
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14 May 08 - 03:06 AM (#2339988) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Paul Burke I'd always thought that the difference between an 'air' and other tunes was that an air is a song tune, and consequently played as you would sing it. How that is depends on the song, and I've sometimes been advised that you can't properly interpret many Irish (Gaelic) airs unless you have at least a smattering of Irish so as to get the phrasing right. But generally, the rhythm and phrasing will be freer, and decoration and variation more to be encouraged. |
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14 May 08 - 03:16 AM (#2339994) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Jim Carroll In 'The Companion To Irish Traditional Music' - the font of a lot of wisdom, Fintan Vallely gives: "Often used to describe the melody of a tune, how the tune goes - as in 'what is the air of The Merry Blacksmith?' Also used as 'an air', abbreviation for 'slow air'". Jim Carroll |
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14 May 08 - 03:25 AM (#2339998) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Dave the Gnome Shouldn't that be an Irish Eire? I'll get my coat... :D |
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14 May 08 - 03:37 AM (#2340006) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: MartinRyan ...or even MY goat! Jim Carroll, quoting Fintan Vallely, has it nailed. Regards |
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14 May 08 - 03:44 AM (#2340007) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: skarpi its a better air than the british its cleaner LOL ATB Skarpi Iceland |
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14 May 08 - 04:08 AM (#2340015) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Fidjit From a cockney it's his Barnet. Chas |
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14 May 08 - 04:36 AM (#2340029) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: MartinRyan Fair enough! |
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14 May 08 - 07:33 PM (#2340766) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: GUEST,Arkie I appreciate all of you who took the time to comment on this. I do have a better understanding at this point of some things that I have always taken for granted. A precursory search of the internet provide nothing, but that could have been due to the mispelling of "aire". I figured Mudcatters would come through. Would it be accurate to say that "aire" refers to songs or music that would not normally be used for dances or does not fall into other categories such as reels, marches, hornpipes, waltzes, etc. |
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14 May 08 - 07:37 PM (#2340771) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Dave the Gnome I've not got my goat yet. What about the London Derriere? Better known as Ken Livingstone or Boris Johnson? Now I have got it... :D |
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14 May 08 - 07:39 PM (#2340772) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: MartinRyan "aire" is NEVER used in the context of Irish music, to my knowledge. "Air" is used in the two senses quoted by Jim Carroll, above. Which of the two applies in a particular case must be judged by the context. As ever, ambiguity can arise where the user is not familiar with that context. Regards |
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14 May 08 - 07:40 PM (#2340777) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: MartinRyan Dave Not intending to start a row but - mind your stroke! Regards |
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14 May 08 - 07:42 PM (#2340779) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Dave the Gnome :D Funny thing is I was a |
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14 May 08 - 07:47 PM (#2340788) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: MartinRyan Maybe I should BOW out.... Regards |
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14 May 08 - 07:53 PM (#2340789) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Dave the Gnome Dunno what ate my post! :D Funny thing is I was at the Manchester/Salford boat race on Saturday. Isn't row the same as stroke... Coat on it's way now. :D |
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14 May 08 - 09:37 PM (#2340856) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Sandy Mc Lean In Ireland the term "Derry Air" is the tune for Danny Boy. In France the term has a different meaning altogether. :-} |
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14 May 08 - 10:18 PM (#2340874) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Sorcha Aye, it does, Sandy......shall we now introduce the 'fanny pack' vs the 'bum bag' here? Sorry for the drift..... |
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15 May 08 - 09:23 AM (#2341143) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Mo the caller When dancing at clubs that do Playford and other older dances, we are often told of dances with 3/4 tunes "this is not a waltz", and that we should phrase it with 6 even step across 2 bars instead of ONE, two, three - a long and 2 short steps / bar. Then ther is the minuet, which I know nothing about except that it is also 3/4. |
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15 May 08 - 04:18 PM (#2341592) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: GUEST,MikeS Surely it depends on whether or not it is pubic, or just in private? |
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15 May 08 - 05:19 PM (#2341664) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Peace Pubic is private unless one wishes to share, no? |
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15 May 08 - 06:09 PM (#2341727) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: GUEST,MikeS I think I prefer to share in private.. bus drivers are an intolerant lot at the best of times. A good many Irish airs are ginger, I believe. |
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15 May 08 - 06:16 PM (#2341735) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: GUEST,MikeS ... although the older ones tend to be longer, and often with alternative endings. Ok, I'm going. |
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16 May 08 - 01:43 PM (#2342263) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Marje As I understand it, an "air" is another word for a melody. But in folk music it is (as someone has said up there) often used for those tunes that are not easily categorised as dance tunes (jig, reel, hornpipe etc), and therefore tends to denote the slower tunes and song melodies. People often call a slow tune with no discernible dance rhythm an "air" or "slow air" (particularly in Irish and Scottish music), and as it's not being played as a dance tune it may be played more loosely and lyrically. Not all 3/4 tunes are waltzes. Airs in 3/4 were around for centuries before the waltz came into being; some of these may happen to suit the waltz, but others do not. There are other 3/4 dances (eg mazurka, bourree, minuet) that have different stresses from that of a waltz, and there are also many old song-tunes and free-standing "airs" in 3/4 that are not really waltzes. The tune referred to as "Michael Turner's Waltz", for example, predates the waltz and is more like a minuet in its stress pattern (nor is it Micheal Turner's, but that's another issue). |
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16 May 08 - 04:37 PM (#2342378) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: GUEST,Arkie I am grateful to all for the information and comments. This has been helpful. Marje your comments have added some insight and summed up other things offered here quite well. I certainly have a better understanding of the air and the waltz. This question arose because I have been writing notes for a radio program airing locally here in Arkansas but streaming to the internet. One of the selections we are using was described by the performer as a waltz. The timing was 3/4 but did not have the rhythm I associate with a waltz. I have no formal music training and very little informal training for that matter. I just listen to music and once played for the fun of it. Got no help by browsing the internet and turned to the experts. Glad I did. Much obliged, as the old folk in Virginia used to say. |
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17 May 08 - 04:42 AM (#2342709) Subject: RE: What is an Irish Air? From: Big Al Whittle all a bit airy fairy, really........... sometimes musicians frown into the middle distance and say, I'm trying to remember the air itself.... particularly those who find themselves trapped in a mental vacuum. |
