|
07 Jun 08 - 04:44 AM (#2359919) Subject: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: Bonnie Shaljean Tonight at 8:00 on Radio 4. Beeb website sez: 20:00 The Archive Hour The Dream Time of Jazz: Marybeth Hamilton recalls an extraordinary ten-hour interview conducted in 1938 by 23-year-old folklorist Alan Lomax with jazz composer Jelly Roll Morton. Sounds interesting - |
|
07 Jun 08 - 05:01 AM (#2359925) Subject: RE: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: Jim Carroll Hi Bonnie Thanks for that. Glad you started this thread; was just about to open an old one. Have just acquired a copy of 'Alan Lomax - selected writings', ed. Ronald D Cohen. Haven't had a chance to read it yet, but it looks fascinating and comes with a sampler CD I notice that the excellent 'Book Depository' site has copies; also other Lomax works including 'Land Were the Blues Began'. Jim Carroll |
|
07 Jun 08 - 03:00 PM (#2360201) Subject: RE: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: Jim Carroll Bonnie, We'll have to stop meeting like this. Jim Carroll |
|
07 Jun 08 - 04:13 PM (#2360230) Subject: RE: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: John MacKenzie Just listened to it, absolutely fascinating. G |
|
07 Jun 08 - 06:04 PM (#2360331) Subject: RE: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: Doc John Excellent - opened up new material for me |
|
07 Jun 08 - 06:37 PM (#2360357) Subject: RE: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: The Sandman brilliant. |
|
15 Jun 08 - 02:41 PM (#2366422) Subject: RE: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: GUEST,rommi did anyone record this BBC programme? I've missed it and missed listening to it on listen again. I'm trying to get hold of a copy of it via MP3 or tape, if anyone can help with this, please let me know. Thanks Rommi romsmith@yahoo.co.uk |
|
15 Jun 08 - 03:09 PM (#2366431) Subject: RE: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: Fred McCormick Rommi, PM me with your email address and I'll see what I can do. I should say the programme has received quite a lot of adverse comment among the jazz fraternity, mostly of the "bleep bleepin' academics" variety. Personally I thought it was excellent, and MH's portrayal of Morton and Lomax pretty spot on. However, there's two things bothering me. First, I might have missed it, but I don't recall any mention of Morton's famous letter to Downbeat magazine, where he claimed to have invented jazz. As far as I've always understood, this is considered to have been the catalyst which brought Morton to the attention of Lomax. Secondly, MH IMHO portrays Lomax in too reactionary a light, arguing that he was hooked into folk music, regarded jazz as 'the enemy', and was therefore decidedly reluctant about recording Morton; or indeed about recording anything outside of 'folk music'. Well, I'm remembering that this was 1938. It's quite conceivable that at that time, Lomax's only contact with jazz might have been with big band swing - effectively the pop music of the day, without realising that there'd been anything before. In which case he may well have been antipathetic towards jazz per se. On the other hand, while it's true that Lomax worked within conventional definitions of folk when it suited him, eg., in the cantometrics experiment, he was also prepared to look outside 'folk music' when he found stuff that he considered worth recording. This after all, is the man who recorded blues, calypsos, old time country, bluegrass, cajun music, flamenco, Indian religious bhajans, and at least one Italian brass band! There's an awful lot in there that would leave any 1938 conception of folk music struggling for breath. My guess is therefore that, once he realised who Morton was, and grasped the historical significance of his music and reminiscences, he would not have needed much persuading. But I witter on. PM me your email address, Rommi. |
|
15 Jun 08 - 03:15 PM (#2366436) Subject: RE: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: Bonnie Shaljean Hi Fred - Interesting post. Wish I could "witter" like that! Rommi won't be able to PM you, being a guest, but the email's there at the end: romsmith@yahoo.co.uk It's the thread's gain that you didn't spot it, though ;-) |
|
15 Jun 08 - 04:34 PM (#2366460) Subject: RE: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: Big Al Whittle When I was fifteen, we didn't have a lot of money but my Mum knew I loved guitars and she bought me We Called It Music - Eddie Condon, the jazz guitarists auto biography from Woolworths 1/3d remaindered book counter. From then on, I was sold on the romance of becoming a jazz musician. One sentence has stayed with me:- 'Gene Krupa's drums trickled through the piece, like bourbon over ice cubes.' The trouble was that the trad boom was pretty much over - so opportunities to fulfil my ambition were looking thin. Nevertheless my chemistry teacher took compassion on me and let me sit in with his old band, at one their of infrequent reunions. Also he passsed onto me a copy of the Lomax/Morton book. My god , what a distraction for the 'O' level year. Mr Robinson (the teacher) also played me his bands recording of Windin' Boy and Jelly Roll Morton's. He was very kind, and I could not repay it by remembering the Periodic Table for him - though God knows I tried. Hydrogen, Helium, Lithium, Berylium, Boron, Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Fluorine, Neon.... I knew that much when I met him, and I don't think I ever got any further! It was roundabout this time also that The Blues Project Album surfaced in my school, containing the track Winding Boy (Morton's Whinin' Boy) by the wonderful, but now dead Ian Buchanan. Surely one the greatest acoustic guitar pieces ever constructed - an absolute tour de force. It all seemed like a wonderful mosaic, that one day I would put together and understand and complete with my own playing. I wish I could pretend that my musical roots are in the soil of my native Lincolnshire. But the truth is, we were all living in the global village by that time. And this was some of the first music to bring a light to my eyes. big al |
|
16 Jun 08 - 06:42 AM (#2366802) Subject: RE: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: Fred McCormick Hi Bonnie, Thanks. I'll email him direct. Sorry I didn't spot the address. Too busy wittering. Incidentally, another bit of witter occcurred to me afterwards. I've only played the programme once, so I may have got this wrong. However, MH seemed to be saying that the Morton recordings were somehow instrumental in kickstarting the New Orleans jazz revival of the 1940s. Considering that interest in, and knowledge of New Orleans jazz had begun to manifest before those recordings were made, that seems unlikely. In fact, said interest had come about via interviews with some of the New Orleans musicians who'd made it big in Chicago. The Morton recordings may have addded fuel to that interest, but that's a different thing from sparking it off. |
|
16 Jun 08 - 08:23 AM (#2366856) Subject: RE: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: Big Al Whittle I don't thnk you can have any interest in New Orleans jazz very long before the name Jelly Roll Morton comes up. perhaps these recordings for Lomax were not available, but the Red Hot peppers stuff surely was. I think as well he was a potent mythological character - the whorehouse pianist who became a noted composer and orchestrator. As I remember Duke Ellington himself cited Morton as an influence. but it was the whorehouse pianist persona that interested guys like our own George Melly, and Bob Wallis called his band the Storeyville Jazzband - after the infamous red light district. To a repressed English society, this guy seemed like a colossus of ananrchy and freedom - a hero of a time and a place when all kinds of freedoms were available. |
|
16 Jun 08 - 11:10 AM (#2366965) Subject: RE: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: Fred McCormick Don't forget that we're effectively talking of two different music scenes here. Musicians like Morton, Bechet, Armstrong, Dodds etc., had become based in Chicago and were playing nightclubs, speakeasies etc. The musicians who were discovered by the NO revival were, eg Bunk Johnson, George Lewis etc., still lived in New Orleans and were virtually unknown anywhere else. The RHP records were certainly available, and the Chicago based New Orleanians were an important catalyst in that it was they who told researchers about the existence of old jazz musicians back home. The Red Hot Pepper records were certainly part of that catalyst. My doubts lie as to whether the progenitors of the NO revival knew about or had heard the Morton Library of Congress recordings when they first started. Don't forget that enthusiasts and collectors had nothing like the network of contacts we've got now. I'd have thought it more than possible that Frederick Ramsey and Bill Russell began doing their thing with surviving New Orleans musicians in complete ignorance of what Lomax was doing with Morton. |
|
22 Jun 08 - 12:46 PM (#2371926) Subject: RE: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: GUEST,Rommi Hello just to say a huge thanks to this site and Fred for sending me a copy of the Dreamtime of Jazz programme. It's fantastic and so informative - I really am glad I didn't miss hearing it. The wonders of the internet! Best wishes Rommi |
|
22 Jun 08 - 12:59 PM (#2371939) Subject: RE: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: Stringsinger Knowing Alan, I have had discussions with him re: trad jazz. He knew the difference between big band jazz and trad New Orleans musicians such as Louis and Bunk. He actually recorded many of the spasm bands and early trad bands from New Orleans. He knew that Morton was important in 1938. He knew of the legend of Buddy Bolden and was well aware of the marching bands that took place following the Civil War. He loved Bessie Smith, Ma Rainey and the blues-shouters of the cabarets and whore houses. If he had continued his interviews, I have no doubt he would have had these cabaret artists as guests. His focus, however, were on the rural musicians who would not find their way into public cognizance. He was acutely aware of the different jazz styles, though. Frank Hamilton |
|
23 Jun 08 - 04:39 AM (#2372339) Subject: RE: Lomax & Jelly Roll Morton BBC Radio 4 From: Fred McCormick Frank, On balance I suspect you're right. My suggestion that things could have been diferent was merely an attempt to give MH the benefit of the doubt. However, he certainly couldn't have followed up his Morton interviews with recordings of Bessie Smith, since she died in 1937. And he'd have needed to act fast to catch to catch Ma Rainey who died in 1939. |