|
11 Jun 08 - 03:40 PM (#2363531) Subject: BS: Canadian Apology From: beardedbruce Canada apologizes for abuse of native children By David Ljunggren 12 minutes ago OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada, addressing one of its darkest scandals, formally apologized on Wednesday for forcing 150,000 aboriginal children into grim residential schools, where many say they were sexually and physically abused. Prime Minister Stephen Harper told Parliament that there could be no excuses for what happened at the church-run schools, which mainly operated from the 1870s to the 1970s. "The government of Canada sincerely apologizes and asks the forgiveness of the aboriginal peoples of this country for failing them so profoundly. We are sorry," Harper said in a lengthy address to legislators, native chiefs and school survivors. The schools were initially set up to educate native children but later became part of a government campaign to assimilate aboriginals and eradicate their culture -- "to kill the Indian in the child," as some put it at the time. "Today, we recognize that this policy of assimilation was wrong (and) has caused great harm," said Harper. "There is no place in Canada for the attitudes that inspired the Indian residential schools system to ever again prevail." Contemporary accounts suggest up to half the children in some institutions died of tuberculosis and other diseases. Many survivors say they were abused mentally, physically and sexually. Children were beaten for speaking their own languages and told they would be damned unless they converted to Christianity. "The government of Canada now recognizes that it was wrong to forcibly remove children from their homes and we apologize for having done this," said Harper. Native leaders say the damage done at the schools is directly responsible for many of the social problems that plague the country's 1 million aboriginals today. In May 2006, Canada reached a C$1.9 billion ($1.9 billion) settlement with the roughly 90,000 school survivors, who say an apology is crucial to help them overcome their trauma. "I am one of many thousands that have lived this tragic experience and I, as many many others, have been very troubled by this experience," said Phil Fontaine, who heads the Assembly of First Nations. "I personally have come to a point in my life where this apology will enable me to put this behind me in a very real way. It's a very important moment," he told the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. on Wednesday before the apology. A formal truth and reconciliation commission started work on June 1 and will spent the next five years traveling the country to hear from school survivors. The scandal is reminiscent of what happened during the same period in Australia, where at least 100,000 aboriginal children were removed from their homes. Prime Minister Kevin Rudd apologized to the "Stolen Generations" in February. (Reporting by David Ljunggren; editing by Rob Wilson) |
|
11 Jun 08 - 03:42 PM (#2363533) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Little Hawk Yup. A powerful symbolic moment in the nation's history. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 03:42 PM (#2363534) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Peace About bloody time. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 05:27 PM (#2363668) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Q (Frank Staplin) Yes, an apology was necessary. But what is being done to improve education on the reservation? The average native kid is still far behind kids of the same age in outside public schools. An apology is little more than a publicity gimmick unless there is action behind it. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 05:29 PM (#2363672) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Bee Too right it took long enough. There are still Canadians who believe the schools were all right, and that the horrible things that were done to those children never happened, or within the standards of the day for schools. They point to the horrors of their own school days, as most of us over fifty can, but fail to take into account that while we may have faced the strap, and a few teachers who were sadistic bullies, and our parents may have had the Gaelic or the French beaten out of them, we still had our parents for final recourse and weren't prisoners of an evil system that punished us for the crime of being who we were after virtually stealing us away from our homes and moms and dads. Church and government, hand in hand. No good ever comes of that, IMO. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 05:30 PM (#2363673) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: bobad I had native kids in school with me for many years and witnessed abuses against them by so called "Christian" Brothers and lay teachers as well. They too deserve an apology. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 05:31 PM (#2363674) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Def Shepard My nieces in Canada are half White half Mohawk, and they welcome this gesture, though one, did wonder just how sincere this apology is and was it motivated by political expediency, ie will you vote for us in the next election? |
|
11 Jun 08 - 05:54 PM (#2363707) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: gnu Well, obviously, this situation deserves a very large cash payment to the abused. I wonder how much the politicians will get. What a load of fucking horseshit. Forgive me, but, for any of those those that were actually abused, and I expect there are VERY FUCKING FEW, I am truely saddened. For the rest of the scam artists, especially the politicians that will fill their offshore bank accounts with this absolute fucking bullshit crap... piss off. Wake up people. It's a scam. And the people involved are taking YOUR money all the way to the bank and laughing at you. I know I will be trashed... but someone had to say the VERY FUCKING OBVIOUS! Do you think for one minute that people who give up their ENTIRE lives to the charity of others are such monsters? Jesus Christ on a fucking crutch!!!! Apology MY ASS!!!! It's a scam to take $$$$ out of the taxpayers pocket. Wake the fuck up! |
|
11 Jun 08 - 05:54 PM (#2363709) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Ebbie I wonder if Alaska has ever apologized to the families they separated for all those years? Some children were never returned to their villages. Many of the children were sent out of state, to the Chemawa boarding school in Salem, Oregon, for instance. Many more were sent to Mt. Edgecumbe boarding school in Sitka in southeast Alaska. Edgecumbe is still open today and I gather it's a popular place these days. However, in those earlier years tuberculosis ran rampant among those youngsters who had no inherited resistance to the disease. Until recently there were still dozens, if not hundreds, of caskets stored in a warehouse... It is hard to accept that the powers thought that forced assimilation was the right thing to do but it appears they did. The arrogance of people who know they are right has always been scary. And dangerous. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 05:58 PM (#2363713) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Def Shepard gnu says,"I expect there are VERY FUCKING FEW" 10,000 in one province alone, according to one source I read. Hardly very effing few, me thinks. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 06:04 PM (#2363719) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: gnu 10k abused? In one province? I rest my case. That must have taken one fuck of a lot of sick bastards a long time. How could anyone find that many sick bastards? Did the advertise for them? |
|
11 Jun 08 - 06:07 PM (#2363722) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Little Hawk I wouldn't doubt that there is much graft and opportunism involved in this on the part of various people, gnu...as well as the probability of some strategic political posturing by the Harper government for their own gain... That's one side of the story. The actual need for an apology and an acknowledgement of what was done to Aboriginal people is the other side of the story. Either side is certainly worth giving consideration to. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 06:07 PM (#2363723) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: gnu Do any of you actually do the arithmetic? Or is this just a wagon to jump on? |
|
11 Jun 08 - 06:11 PM (#2363726) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Big Mick One of the few times I must take issue with my friend, gnu. The maltreatment of native peoples on the North American continent is well chronicled, and its effect of the culture, customs, and pride of the people is still being felt today. I would suggest that the amount of people that will scam someone on this is actually the minor number. How does one measure the destruction of a culture, and the taking away of lands that these folks lived on for centuries? We cannot unring the bell, but a good start is simply to acknowledge the wrong publicly, as in the case of this apology, so that real reparations can begin. If a whole people have had their lives, and the lives of generations of their descendants, affected in such a way as to create the conditions we see today, then a think and caring people, a progressive people of conscience, will try and begin the repair process. No matter what your political stripe, it is easy to see the problems rampant among native peoples that are easily traceable to the racism and the treatment they received. No group of people is born with these problems. They are societal. The Canadian government is to be commended for this step. May they follow it up with more of the right steps. All the best, Mick |
|
11 Jun 08 - 06:12 PM (#2363729) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: gnu Consideration is fine. But, the bullshit is staggering and I am sick and tired of it. The White Man is not the devil. The politicians who milk the division that is caused by these lies are. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 06:21 PM (#2363737) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: gnu The rights steps? Eyeglasses. Guns. Antibiotics. Metal pots. Snowmobiles free of charge.... ya get the picture? I am tired of the bullshit. Ask one of MY native brothers if he would turn back the clock... not likely. And, the abuse? Bullshit. There may have been some few, but, 10k in one province? And nobody knew? Fuck that bullshit! |
|
11 Jun 08 - 06:25 PM (#2363742) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Rowan The Canadian govt's apology was an item on the early morning news in Oz. I'm not as familiar with the Canadian context as the Oz one but Big Mick's description fits ours to a T. While there are some in Oz who reflect gnu's fears, most [eople here are very supportive of the need for such an apology and the fact that it was given in the way it was; there appears to be no evidence to support gnu's prognosis in Oz and I hope the same is true in Canada. Cheers, Rowan |
|
11 Jun 08 - 06:34 PM (#2363749) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Little Hawk I understand exactly what bugs you about this, gnu. Just thought I'd say that...because I do, okay? I was involved in the traditional Native American movement for many years. I saw much game-playing and opportunism on both sides of the fence. It's a very mixed picture, and many people use something like this as an emotional bludgeon on other people. That can get very hypocritical and self-serving at times. There is abuse...and it goes every which way. It ain't all on one side of the fence. And whenever there is a large amount of money at stake...! Well, then the sharks start to circle. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 06:36 PM (#2363752) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: gnu Well... I guess I had better leave. I have seen this gravy train a little too close for comfort. I have seen the bullshit first hand and seen what it does to good people on both sides of the issue. It's a very complicated issue in some ways.... in other ways, it's just bullshit and political graft. All of it makes me sick. gnightgnu |
|
11 Jun 08 - 06:36 PM (#2363753) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Peace Gnu, I can tell you this straight across. I taught on a reserve--where I also lived. I knew the people there very well and I'm quite sure I'd be welcomed back tomorrow if I chose to go. The grandparents--kookums and mushums (phonetic spellings)--hda been taken away to schools and disallowed to speak their language, Cree. The punishment was a beating for saying "Astum a tee (come over here). I learned this from the elders who had no reason to lie to me about it. (They were the same people who taught me how to 'shoot' in the great game of 'PUG ee see' (phonetic spelling), how to snare chickens when they did the mating dance, how to cure a bad throat with rat root.) They spoke the truth to me. And I will speak the truth on their behalf. From their small group of 500 people, over 120 were TAKEN away to a residential school so far from their reserve that getting home at Christmas was impossible. And today, the grandkids have no way to speak with their elders because they no longer share a common language. That was taken away from them by OUR government. In my own family (I have four nephews who are half/half from my sister and their father who was 100% Ojibwa) I have seen the crap done by Indian Affairs. I have also seen the harm done by crooked Indian politicos. They will have to live with that and answer to their people. BUT, this fu#king government answers to me as a tax payer and citizen, and I think the apology is a start. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 07:06 PM (#2363785) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Azizi I also congratulate the Canadian government, although I agree with others who suggested that those who gave this apology might have ulterior motives. But few if any politicians have pure motives. Certainly, the motives for involuntarily removing these children & teens from their parents and from their cultures wasn't pure. This doesn't mean that all or even most of the people associated with these residential facilities and schools were abusive toward these children/teens. However, it does mean that the motivation for these facilities and schools was absolutely wrong, and the conditions under which these institutions were run [for example, under the overarching belief that White cultures were better than aboriginal cultures and therefore with no aboriginal parental and community oversight] was absolutely wrong. The motivation, structure, and operation of these residential facilities provided the opportunities for the emotional, physical, and sexual abuse that did occur. Given the world view and the attitudes that were common in those times, I think that most non-aboriginal people give very little thought to what happened to those children, teens, and their parents because they felt that removing them from their parents and their culture was "for their own good". I believe that few people probably knew about the physical and/or sexual abuse that occurred to the aboriginal children and teens in these residential facilities & schools. And, given the ethnocentrism and racism of those times, I believe that most people probably didn't understand the emotional abuse that aboriginal children & teens sufferred as a result of first being removed from their parents and cultures and second being indoctrinated to reject that culture, and embrace a culture which despised them. And then to add the short and long term effects of actual physical and/or sexual abuse-if the victims and victims families say that at the very least they want and need an apology, I'm glad that they received it. Thank goodness, nowadays, most people in the world 'get' that such treatment is inhumane, and by "such treatment" I mean all of it-the involuntary removal of children from their parents simply because of their race/ethnicity as well as the physical and sexual abuse that occurred. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 07:45 PM (#2363810) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Q (Frank Staplin) Azizi is correct about few people knowing about the abuse. During most of that period, people did not speak out. The system of de-culturing natives was thought to be the right thing to do. The church schools were filled with people "giving their lives to charity," but their procedures were mistaken and draconian. Only in the past few years have people come to realize that they were killing pride, initiative, language, knowledge, culture. In Canada, not much has been exposed concerning sexual abuse, but I doubt that it was less than in the States. I think cases will come to light as it is realized that the crime was not within, but was imposed. The abused feel shamed and turn inward, but now perhaps they will talk. Looking at the reserves here in Alberta, I fail to see that large sums of money have been involved, and there seem to be no real plans for any meaningful compensation. Much talk, but "where's the beef?" to use the trite phrase. The 'scams' still come from outside the reservations. Calgary wants to drive part of their ring road through the T'su-Tina land, bordering Calgary, there is talk of benefits, but real compensation is not on the table. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 07:55 PM (#2363815) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: gnu Yes, Peace... I have seen it up close too. Sad shit man. And the way the politicians on boths sides milk it while the poor get crap is truly sickening. Okay... I really gotta sign out. This is too heavy for me right now. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 08:01 PM (#2363821) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Ed T It's anbout time to deal directly with a serious blight on Canada's history. But, it is never too late. Time to also put measures in place to assist this founding community to find its proper place in Canadian society. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 08:06 PM (#2363828) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Peace Yeah, Gnu. I hear you, man. Hey, buddy, tomorrow's another day. The sun go be rise in the east and set in the west, and we'll continue as the friends we are. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 08:43 PM (#2363844) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Little Hawk Same here. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 10:48 PM (#2363891) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Sandy Mc Lean The apology means a lot to those who need healing and I see nothing wrong at all with that except that it came to late for elders like Nora Bernard, who started the fight. Monetary compensation is more of a concern though. Too often I have seen money going to reserves being siphoned off by councils and chiefs and never getting to those in need. We have had local band chiefs paid more than the Prime Minister, and tax free as well, while the people on the same reserves live in poverty. I feel that education is the key, but reservations are a ghetto that limits the progress of their people. The residential schools tried to educate and assimilate but it was a failure because it was forced upon people and it tried to stamp out their rich culture and language. Integration and education is still badly needed but we must help the natives do it in a way that preserves their heritage. Not an easy task and an apology does little to rectify the real problems. |
|
11 Jun 08 - 10:56 PM (#2363899) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Peace Well said, Sandy. (Don't know why I say that. Every post you ever made has been well said.) |
|
11 Jun 08 - 11:07 PM (#2363907) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Sandy Mc Lean Thanks Bruce, and I would say the same about your posts! |
|
12 Jun 08 - 09:37 AM (#2364174) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: bankley "I Pity the Country"... Willie Dunn , 1971 I pity the country, I pity the state, and the mind of the man who thrives on hate Small are the lives of cheats and of liars, of bigoted newspress, fascist town criers Deception annoys me, deception destroys me, Bill of Rights throws me, jails they all know me Frustrated are churchmen, saving-of-soul men, the tinker, the tailor, the colonial governor They pull and they paw me, they're seeking to draw me away from the roundness of the life Silly civil servants, they thrive off my body, their trip is with power, back bacon and welfare Police they arrest me, materialists detest me, pollution it chokes me, movies they joke me Politicians exploit me, city life it jades me, Hudson Bay fleece me, hunting laws throw me Government is bumbling, revolution is rumbling, to be ruled in impunity, it's tradition in continuity I pity the country, I pity the state and the mind of the man who thrives on hate" |
|
12 Jun 08 - 10:25 AM (#2364203) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Peace Morning, Gnu. Buddy, I need to ask you a serious question. Do you think we're turning into crusty old farts? |
|
12 Jun 08 - 10:34 AM (#2364213) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: gnu Turning into? My apologies to all for any offense... ah... the offenses... last night, but I have been in places like Davis Inlet, Labrador, all over Atlantic Canada and I have seen abuse both ways. Right. I'll try to calm me crusty old nerves. |
|
12 Jun 08 - 11:12 AM (#2364240) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Peace One of my nephews--he was nominated for "Native Youth of the Year" a while back--worked with the kids from Davis Inlet who'd been sniffing gasoline. Bloody tragedy all around. Gnu, I do understand your frustration. I'd like to hamstring a few bastsrds for their mishandling of 'Native issues'. Some of those bastards are Native. Some not. I don't think you offended anyone. (Maybe better to speak for myself. You didn't offend me at all. I have often said what you did--but not as nicely.) This country has treated first nations people like garbage. Of my four nephews--all from the same mom and dad--nephews one, three and four are Treaty. Nephew two can't get a treaty card. Years of talk with the bloody feds and Indian Affairs has resulted in bugger all. Even the chief from their dad's home reserve (a term that makes me think we're herding livestock there) will do nothing (because the kids are half/half, and because they are males, and because each is entitled by law to a piece of land on that reserve) will NOT get off his ass and get him a treaty card because then it's one more person taking a small piece of land from a 'shrinking' land base on that reserve. We wonder why there is frustration amongst First Nations people. I can sum that up in a few words. Too many self-serving bastards in Ottawa and too many self-serving bastards on band councils. |
|
12 Jun 08 - 11:35 AM (#2364254) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: bankley the last sentence sums it up well.....Peace here's a recent quote from our old friend Willie "The hell with your apology, just give me the money" |
|
12 Jun 08 - 11:47 AM (#2364264) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Peace Well, you, he and I are gonna get together and make some music. Just be sure there's someone who ain't us to post bail. |
|
12 Jun 08 - 11:58 AM (#2364277) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: bankley heh, heh....we don't look that good in orange jumpsuits and running shoes with velcro fasteners.... so we'll be extra nice to the womenfolk |
|
12 Jun 08 - 12:01 PM (#2364279) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: beardedbruce ...Now I am waiting on the US government... Sonnet 27/09/04 On the Opening of NMAI CMXXXIII I listen to the songs of life, as told By dark-eyed beauties, hair the color of True wisdom: Quiet words that power hold To speak of family, work; hopes, tears, and love. I see the flash of fire in eyes, that tell Of old injustice, but a smile for all. What have we done, to past redeem, or spell Out what we owe for what greed let befall? I feel the beat of drums: Power to move Both feet and hearts. What will the future show? How can this nation honest fairness prove Unless we make amends for what we know? We have no reason, now, to debt deny: How will our conscience to this call reply? |
|
12 Jun 08 - 12:12 PM (#2364289) Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Apology From: Peace Good one, Bruce. |