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20 Jun 08 - 07:17 PM (#2371109) Subject: Lyr Add: Can't Cross Over (River Come Down) From: Genie This is a song I heard Miriam Makeba do - on her second US album, I think. I've been trying to find a YouTube of it, but no luck so far. I have the vinyl album but can't play it right now. Anyway I thought I'd post the lyrics because it's a delightful song (especially when Miriam sings it). Can't Cross Over (River Come Down) The river come down, The river come down, River come down , I can't cross over. Why-o, why-o, why-o I can't cross over. I wanted to go down To the other side of town. There was water all around And I couldn't cross over. Why-o, why-o, why-o I can't cross over. Well a gal she come by And I give she the eye, So she started to sigh And I couldn't cross over. Why-o, why-o, why-o I can't cross over. The river come down, The river come down, River come down And I couldn't cross over. Why-o, why-o, why-o I can't cross over. Now bird he can fly , Foggy jump high, Fishes never die And I couldn't cross over . Why-o, why-o, why-o I can't cross over. A well I stole me a kiss, I couldn't resist! Just think what I'd a miss If I could have crossed over. Why-o, why-o, why-o I can't cross over . The river come down, The river come down, River come down And I couldn't cross over. Why-o, why-o, why-o I can't cross over . I had a curiosity , Now I got a family, Bouncing baby on my knee 'Cause I couldn't cross over. Why-o, why-o, why-o I can't cross over. So when you see your neighbor daughter, Better run for the water. You'll do things you hadn't oughta If you can't cross over. Why-o, why-o, why-o I can't cross over. The river come down, The river come down, River come down And I couldn't cross over. Why-o, why-o, why-o I can't cross over. |
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20 Jun 08 - 07:38 PM (#2371117) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Can't Cross Over (River Come Down) From: Azizi Genie, thanks for posting that song. It reads well, and probably sounds even better than it reads, especially, as you said, with a singer like Miriam Makeba. Btw, I believe that you also posted a YouTube video of Miriam Makeba earlier this week. Was that you? If so thanks for that also. I don't recall the name of the thread that video link was posted in. If I did, I'd post a link to it here. Perhaps you might want to do that. ** As I'm sure you know, the lines "Well a gal she come by/And I give she the eye", refer to the evil eye. I'm wondering if this song has a Caribbean source-and not just because of the "give she the eye" line, as that could be reflective of certain vernacular African American {and African?} English grammar. It just "feels" Jamaican or Trinidadian to me. ?? |
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20 Jun 08 - 11:45 PM (#2371202) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Can't Cross Over (River Come Down) From: Q (Frank Staplin) On an early cd, 1962 by Makeba. Also Harry Belafonte, about the same time. Composed by Irving Burgie, published by Caribe Music Corporation. Burgie was a student at Juliard and Univ. Arizona, born in the States but his mother was from Barbados. A member of the Songwriters' Hall of Fame. He also wrote "Day-O," "Island in the Sun," "Jamaica Farewell," etc., etc. Azizi, now whatever made you think it could be Caribbean? (Snick, or Nyuk). |
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21 Jun 08 - 12:07 AM (#2371208) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Can't Cross Over (River Come Down) From: Q (Frank Staplin) I should have added that Burgie used the name "Lord Burgess" when he toured as a 'folk singer.' He played at The Village Vanguard, and was well known to all the 1950s 'folk singers.' He wrote for the Kingston Trio, among others. He also co-wrote "Mary's Boy Child," which everyone thinks is a folk carol, and "Angelina." He co-wrote "Day-O" with Attaway. A natural 'folk song' writer, or at least most of what he wrote sounded like folk. A truly great songwriter. |
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21 Jun 08 - 01:41 AM (#2371237) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Can't Cross Over (River Come Down) From: Azizi Q, maybe my spirit knew that this song was from the Caribbean because my maternal grandmother was from Barbados and my maternal grandfather was from Trinidad. But, I didn't guess Barbados so I guess I didn't guess that good, did I? ** That "genetic memory" theory [which is me being facetious], initially that song reminded me of the African American spiritual "My Lord is so high/You can't go over Him/so low/You can't go under Him/so wide/You can't go around Him/you must come in at the door. But somehow, that didn't seem to fit. I then thought of the song "One More River To Cross". There's a number of songs with this title, including this one credited to the Soul Stirrers http://www.allthelyrics.com/lyrics/soul_stirrers/one_more_river-lyrics-1154971.html. And there's also this African American folk song: Old Noah once he build the ark, There's one more river to cross, And pathed it up with hickory bark, There's one more river to cross etc. http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/folk-song-lyrics/One_More_River.htm However, those weren't the versions that I had in the back of my mind. It was only through searching that I realized that I wasn't thinking of any song titled "One More River To Cross" but the song "Many Rivers To Cross" that was popularized by the Jamaican Reggae singer Jimmy Cliff Here's a link to the YouTube video of this powerful song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkMzuXlKQv8&feature=related Jimmy Cliff Many Rivers To Cross Video: 1989 Jamaica - -snip- Another reason why I thought that the song "Can't Cross Over {River Come Down}" might be Caribbean was the line "she give the eye". While that line does refer to the "evil eye", it also reminded me of "giving the cut eye" {a Caribbean and maybe a Southern African American phrase}. In New Jersey where I grew up and in Western Pennsylvania where I've lived for years, African Americans say "cut her [or his] eyes at me {or someone else}, but I haven't heard or seen any usage of the phrase someone else "the cut eye". However, the gesture is definitely familiar to me. Here's a link to two definitions of "cut eye" as well as examples of "cut eye" and "cut [his] eyes at me" in sentences http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cut-eye I thought the phrase "she gives the eye" sounded like a Caribbean phrase, though, as I mentioned in a previous post to this thread, that grammatical construct could be said to be vernacular African American or African for that matter. But the truth of the matter is, when you get right down to it, I thought that "Can't Cross Over {River Come Down" was Caribbean because it felt that way to me. And I am learning to trust my inituition. So then, Q, you may have been facetious when you asked me why I felt "Can't Cross Over {River Come Down" had Caribbean origins. But I given you a serious answer. But I haveta say that I liked the "Snick Nyuk" phrase at the end of your 20 Jun 08 - 11:45 PM post. [For those who didn't "get" Q's ending with "Snick, Nyuk", it's a continuation of a lighthearted exchange from another current Mudcat thread. There's a series of posts that are part of this lighthearted exchange, but it starts with this one: thread.cfm?threadid=112122&messages=22#2370349] |
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21 Jun 08 - 01:54 AM (#2371243) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Can't Cross Over (River Come Down) From: Azizi Btw, Q, Thanks for sharing information about Irving Burgie! I was "familiar" with Irving Burgie as the composer of "Day-O" and "Jamaica Farewell" and many other Caribbean songs. But I didn't know he and Lord Burgess were one in the same person. I thought that Irving Burgie was from somewhere in the West Indies, but didn't know that he was born in the States and his mother was from Barbados. Hey, as a person with Bajan ancestry, I shoulda known that. I guess I have to read up on Irving Burgie. Here's a link to information about Irving Burgie for me and other folks interested in knowing more about this great composer of Caribbean songs: http://www.songwritershalloffame.org/exhibits/C353 |
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21 Jun 08 - 02:14 AM (#2371246) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Can't Cross Over (River Come Down) From: Genie Azizi, there are a lot of wonderful Miriam Makeba videos here. but unfortunately not this one. I had the thrill of seeing and hearing Miriam about 5 years ago at one of our Zoo concerts. Her granddaughter peformed with her on some songs too. And I spent many an evening listening to this album -- the one with Can't Cross The Water -- my first summer in Greenwich Village (1962). I was a starving student and all I could afford was about 4 albums: Miriam Makeba, The Freewheeling Bob Dylan, one of Joan Baez's first albums, and Miles Davis's "Sketches Of Spain." The only reason I didn't learn more of Miriam's songs was that I couldn't pronounce some of the Xhosa sounds. LOL (Fortunately, this song doesn't require that.) Q, I thought Jester Hairston wrote Mary's Boy Child (or arranged it based on a trad song). Did he co-write it with Irving Burgie? Genie |
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21 Jun 08 - 08:50 AM (#2371355) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Can't Cross Over (River Come Down) From: Azizi I need to apologize to readers of this thread for confusing two folk terms "evil eye" and "cut eye". These two terms are not the same. I also need to clarify that I think that the line "she give the eye" in the song "Can't Cross Over {River Come Down} refers to cut eye and not to the evil eye. Here's an excerpt from an online abstract about "cut eye" {cutting one's eyes at someone else}: "Title: "Cut-Eye" and "Suck-Teeth": African Words and Gestures in New World Guise. Authors: Rickford, John R.; Rickford, Angela E. Descriptors: African Culture; Black Culture; Body Language; Communication (Thought Transfer); Cultural Exchange; Cultural Influences; Nonverbal Communication; Paralinguistics .... Publication Date: 1974-00-00 .... Abstract: An investigation questioned whether the words and gestures "cut-eye" and "suck-teeth," evident in Guyana, represent African survivals, and how widely these are recognized in the Caribbean, the United States and Africa. Caribbean data were drawn from observations, dictionaries and interviews. U.S. data came from questionnaires administered to both blacks and whites. African students were also questioned. In Guyana, "cut-eye" is a visual gesture indicating hostility or disapproval. A glare is delivered followed by a vertical or diagonal sweep of the eye over the other person. "Cut-eye" insults by visually invading another's territory and turning away contemptuously. The gesture was familiar to all West Indians interviewed. In the U.S., nearly all black informants were familiar with the term, but few of the whites. All African informants recognized the gesture. "Suck-teeth" refers to the gesture of drawing in air through the teeth to produce a sucking sound. It expresses anger, exasperation or annoyance, and is stronger and ruder than "cut-eye." It is known throughout the Caribbean, by black Americans, though not by whites, and by Africans. The study provides evidence that Africanisms persist in the New World even in commonplace expressions and gestures. (CHK) http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED119 -snip- [my addition of italics for emphasis] In contrast, here's a description of "the evil eye" "The belief in the evil eye is ancient. Virtually every culture has referred to it. The oldest references to it appears in the cuneiform texts of the Sumerians, Babylonians, and Assyrians, around 3000 BC. The ancient Egyptians used eye shadow and lipstick to prevent the evil eye from entering their eyes or mouths. Both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible mention the evil eye. Superstions surrounding the evil eye still strongly persist in Mediterranean countries such as Italy, and in Mexico and Central America. The evil eye is either involuntary or deliberate. In the first incidences the persons do not intentionally use the evil eye, and usually are not aware they are doing so. No wrong doing or revenge is sought to another person. The deliberate or malevolent use of the evil eye is called "overlooking." This is thought to produce such misfortunes as illness, poverty, injury, loss of love, or even death. In the Middle Ages witches were said to give anyone who crossed them the evil eye. Also they were thought to be able to bewitch their convicting judges with it, and this was why they were made to walk backwards toward the judges. Almost anything could cause the notion that some person possessed an evil eye. If someone looked too long or lingering at one's children, or possessions, or livestock. If a child got sick, or some possession was lost or stolen, or some animals died, then the person was really suspected of having an evil eye. If the evil eye and its effects could not be driven away then the victim thought he or she really had trouble, then it was time to consult an older and wiser woman -- usually a family member -- hoping she knew a secret cure. The evil eye can be listed as one of the earliest prejudicial signs. A stranger in a village or town was most susceptible of suspicion. Any person having an unusual characteristic could easily find himself in this category, such as a blue-eyed person among brown-eyed people, or people having body deformities. Some people were said to have been born with a permanent evil eye, corrupting everything they looked at. Also they were often called demonic possessed"... http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/e/evil_eye.html -snip- Again, I humbly* apologize for my use of the term evil eye as an explanation of that song line or as a description of cut eye. I believe that the only thing these two things have in common is that they both involve eyes. *I emphasize "humbly" because I recognize that hubris was the reason for my mistake. |
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21 Jun 08 - 09:18 AM (#2371373) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Can't Cross Over (River Come Down) From: Azizi For some reason, I can abstact that article on cut eye by way of google, but not through the hyperlink. I'm sorry about that. Here's the name of the page: "ED119515 - "Cut-Eye" and "Suck-Teeth": African Words and Gestures in New World Guise". There also was this notation: "To appear in Journal of American Folklore, Jul-Sep 1976"... ** Genie, thanks for that link to Miriam Makeba videos! I look forward to Q's response to your question about the whether Irving Bugie co-authored the "Mary's Boy Child". |
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21 Jun 08 - 01:46 PM (#2371494) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Can't Cross Over (River Come Down) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Azizi, the first paragraph of the article on Irving Burgie (your link) says he cowrote "Mary's Little Boy Child." This may be where I got the information. Other references list Jennifer Hairston as composer, including a copy of the sheet music. Irving Burgie is an ASCAP member, all of his songs are listed there if you enter his name in the search box; "Can't Cross Over," etc. are there, but not "Mary's Boy Child." From this, I conclude that the statement "cowrote" in the Song Writers Hall of Fame biography, first paragraph, is wrong. The Hall of Fame site also has a list of his songs and "Mary's ..." is not listed. I should have checked ASCAP first. Sorry for the error. I see that he also wrote "Judy Drownded," which I had always assumed was a folk song. |
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21 Jun 08 - 02:10 PM (#2371513) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Can't Cross Over (River Come Down) From: Q (Frank Staplin) JESTER, not Jennifer. I should have remembered him from the classic Amos and Andy shows and his movie rolls. He was also an ASCAP member, and "Mary's Little Boy Child" is included in the list of his songs. Many rewrites of old spirituals, including "Hist de Window, Noah." ASCAP Search- ASCAP search A useful site. Allmusic and BMI are others that I often use. |
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21 Jun 08 - 02:53 PM (#2371532) Subject: Jester Hairston/"Amen," "Mary's Boy Child" From: Genie Jester Hairston is also credited with the Gospel song "Amen!" - though I think he may have collected and arranged it based on trad rather than composed it. |