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Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)

02 Jul 08 - 07:21 PM (#2379572)
Subject: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: Cherkassiya

greetings i notice you have two songs in the Digital Tradition Mirror entitled "Van Dieman's Land" Antoon van Diemen was governor of the East Indies in 1642 and ordered Abel Janzoon Tasman to sail around Australia (then called Nieuw Holland) when Tasman sailed past the island now known as Tasmania after him he named it after Governor van Diemen as "Vandiemensland" which was later separated into three words before it was renamed after Tasman it was used as a place to send English convicts until about 1853 when "transportation" as a punishment was abandoned anyway, the correct spelling of the song should be "Van Diemen's Land" apparently, the spelling ending in "-man" came into use after A.L.Lloyd and Ewan MacColl published their album "Off To Sea Once More" by Stinson Records in 1963 and the name was spelled incorrectly on that album sorry to be so pedantic as to worry about spelling but i hope the spelling will be corrected

miriam (cherkassiya@aol.com; folksongcollector.com)


02 Jul 08 - 07:30 PM (#2379581)
Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego

A perfectly appropriate correction, and long overdue, no doubt.


02 Jul 08 - 08:46 PM (#2379629)
Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: GUEST

Try this, from 1855:
http://www.nls.uk/broadsides/scans/74411591.jpg
(in the National Library of Scotland's "The Word on the Street" collection).

It's spelt that way in almost all 19th century British broadsides. Lloyd and MacColl didn't invent it.

But I think you invented "Janzoon". It's "Janszoon" in every source I've seen.


02 Jul 08 - 09:11 PM (#2379639)
Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: Jack Campin

The last GUEST was me.


05 Nov 10 - 01:32 PM (#3024398)
Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: Tootler

Indeed. A search on the Bodleian Library Broadside website brings up 13 hits for "Van Dieman" and none for Van Diemen.

The OP might well be correct about the spelling of the actual name of the person after whom Tasmania was originally named, but the song title is correctly spelt "Van Dieman's land"


05 Nov 10 - 08:06 PM (#3024755)
Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: McGrath of Harlow

But the place itself was called Van Diemen's Land, spelt that way. To confuse matters, the original Dutch name was Anthoonij van Diemenslandt These days it's called Tasmania, which avoids the problem.


05 Nov 10 - 09:01 PM (#3024798)
Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: Tattie Bogle

Spelled!
It was spelt.
I have spelled.
Van DIEMEN as I have spelled it!


06 Nov 10 - 05:21 PM (#3025438)
Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: Steve Gardham

Cherk,
When you've finished worrying about the spelling I'd start looking at your punctuation. Sorry to be pedantic!


06 Nov 10 - 08:58 PM (#3025608)
Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: GUEST

Spelt and spelled are both correct. Most dictionaries give both.

[trivia]
"Spelt" is the older form. Past tenses formed by adding '-ed' only started to appear in the 17th century but have become steadily more common since. However the older form, "spelt" is not yet obsolete.
[/trivia]


07 Nov 10 - 11:38 AM (#3025902)
Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: McGrath of Harlow

Like dreamt and dreamed and leapt and leaped and crept and creeped and a good few more.


07 Nov 10 - 11:53 AM (#3025911)
Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: MGM·Lion

...Tho I think the increasing popularity of 'earnt' to be deprecated as a monstrosity...

~Michael~


07 Nov 10 - 12:07 PM (#3025919)
Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: WalkaboutsVerse

Something similar: I like hearing the Northumbrian bagpipes; and singing/playing, from my repertoire, "The Northumberland Bagpipes"..?


07 Nov 10 - 02:58 PM (#3026048)
Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

Folksingers who have sung this all have used 'Van Dieman's'; writers of the time also spelled it that way.
There is only confusion to be had if the spelling is corrected.

See this book (Google):
Henry Walker Parker, 1834, Van Dieman's Land: Its rise, progress and present state with advice to emigrants, London, J. Cross, and Simpkin and Marshall; Oliver and Boyd, Edinburgh; and Currie and Co, Dublin. 244 pages plus appendix.

also:
"Van Dieman's Land," in Historical Narratives of Early Canada.
http://www.uppercanadahistory.ca/tt/tt11.html


07 Nov 10 - 03:37 PM (#3026075)
Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: McGrath of Harlow

Advance Orstrylya Fair...


07 Nov 10 - 05:26 PM (#3026139)
Subject: RE: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: Tootler

Guest of 06 Nov 10 - 08:58 PM was me. Sorry, my cookie got blasted.