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14 Jul 08 - 02:28 PM (#2388750) Subject: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Kev The Clogs Well I have a reasonable idea how this thread might go!! Having followed the Seth Lakeman thread from last week, I'm sure that this will provoke just as much controversy!!! Just got back from this year's Ely Festival (Fantastic!! - big cheers to the organising commitee). Many great acts, many great sessions in various places. BUT - (close second, being Spiers and Bowden) the HIGHLIGHT of the festival just HAD to be - Show Of Hands!!!! Whether you class them as folk or not (the 1954 definition will be touted about I'm sure), they are "The Dog's Wotsits!!!!". I was introduced to them several years ago and was a committed convert right from the start. Their songs have inspired me to sing more and more at sessions over the last three or four years. They are thought provoking. They are stylish. They are happy. They are sad. They provide us with a musical tour of so many emotions that all of us have felt during our lives. The addition of the fantastic Miranda Sykes has only enhanced the "package" of Mr Knightly and Mr Beer to new levels. It is great that Mr Lakeman is in the popular album charts at the moment - our "niche"/"genre" must be pushed as much as possible!!! I suggest that Show of Hands should be considered for MBEs for services to Folk Music in the next Honours list - lobby your local MPs now!!! (Especially the one "whose vision of hell, is three folk singers in a pub near wells"!!!! Discuss :-) Kev |
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14 Jul 08 - 02:42 PM (#2388765) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Richard Bridge They have a long way to go to match those who have got gongs already. Sure, they are very good and very successful within the genre (whichever genre it is) but are they on a par with other MBEs? Dubito. |
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14 Jul 08 - 02:47 PM (#2388771) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Kev The Clogs Hoff, I KNEW you would be one of the first to comment! :-) You know me - I like to play Devil's Advocate :-) Kev |
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14 Jul 08 - 03:05 PM (#2388796) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: GUEST,In My Humble Opinion MBE? PAH! Why not go the whole way.. Sir Steven Knightley and Sir Philip Beer...dear God I hope not! |
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14 Jul 08 - 03:11 PM (#2388801) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Kev The Clogs Stunning idea IMHO. See, I knew people would go along with it! |
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14 Jul 08 - 03:15 PM (#2388807) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: GUEST Why not just knight and lady the whole West Country mafia while we're at it? No, wait, pretend I didn't say that, I might be taken seriously. |
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14 Jul 08 - 03:24 PM (#2388816) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Big Al Whittle its a unny sort of compliment, given the amount of folksongs that are about the evil deeds of the British Empire. Isn't there more approriate award. the Queens Order of Troubabdours or something........ |
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14 Jul 08 - 03:37 PM (#2388834) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: GUEST,In My Humble Opinion Masters of the Queen's Musicks perhaps? |
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14 Jul 08 - 05:23 PM (#2388994) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Richard Bridge "unny" - wot, like Winnie the Pooh? |
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15 Jul 08 - 02:39 AM (#2389314) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Dave Hanson Both Phil and Steve richly deserve an award, not for anything to do with folk music, but for writing more garbage than any other ageing wannabee rock/pop singers in the history of the world so far. eric |
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15 Jul 08 - 03:40 AM (#2389340) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Big Al Whittle Rubbish! I've written more garbage than they have. |
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15 Jul 08 - 03:57 AM (#2389345) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: GUEST I've sung at least as much garbage Can I have an Award too please? Perhaps Member of the Ancient Order of Froth Blowers. Dave |
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15 Jul 08 - 04:56 AM (#2389382) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: mattkeen eric the red How do you manage to be so consistently good hearted? Do you have children? Are they on crack yet? |
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15 Jul 08 - 05:07 AM (#2389391) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: GUEST,Jorrox Any folk musician who takes a trinket from the monarchy should be treated with scorn. No matter whether you like their music or not, there is no excuse for chosing to called 'a member of the british empire'. I remember 2 years ago at Cambridge when Edie Reader and Karen Mathieson stoof on the stage comparing their 'honours'. I near boaked. |
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15 Jul 08 - 05:13 AM (#2389392) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Big Al Whittle why scorn folk musicians more than headmasters and lollipop ladies and all that lot? |
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15 Jul 08 - 05:21 AM (#2389397) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Dave Hanson They should all take a lesson from the late Hamish Henderson, he famously refused an honour from the Thatcher regime saying he couldn't accept an honour from a government who supported the nuclear arms race. I can't imagine anyone less deserving than SOH, what the feck have they done for the tradition, which is what ' most ' folk musicians get them for, not for services to showbiz, like SOH. eric |
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15 Jul 08 - 06:40 AM (#2389439) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Big Al Whittle well I would say they'd done a fair bit. Phil Beer has played an important part in the re-popularisation of the mandoline. He has recorded whole albums specififically for that interest group. As part of the Downes /Beer duo - he charged up and down the country playing folk clubs and making sod all money and playing quite a fair number of trad songs. I think also with their Albert Hall concerts - they have proved beyond question that this music does have a constituency, and they have provided adequate proof to assholes who don't listen very hard to public unrest. Finally the have written at least two songs - follow me down cousin jack and the galway farmer that are already staples in trad singers repertoires. Thats what I'm aware of and I don't follow their career with any great devotion. Its just stuff that virtually every folk club goer is aware of. |
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15 Jul 08 - 08:40 AM (#2389506) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Dave Hanson Never heard of Andy Irvine, Dave Swarbrick, John Sheehan, Barney McKenna, Chris Thile, David Grisman, not to mention Bill Monroe, Sam Bush, Pee Wee Lambert, Martin Mathews, Norman and Nancy Blake, Ronnie McCoury, these legends were influential to me several years before I'd ever heard of Phil Beer, and will still be famous for being mandolin inovators long after Phil Beer is forgotten, anyway, thanks for the laugh. eri |
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15 Jul 08 - 08:52 AM (#2389516) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Dave Hanson In retrospect Phil and Steve probably do deserve a pointless award like the MBE. eric |
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15 Jul 08 - 09:03 AM (#2389526) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Zen Phil Beer has played an important part in the re-popularisation of the mandoline Irrespective of SOH's many qualities and whether or not they deserve an honour, like eric the red I find that statement hard to fully digest having played the mandolin myself for at least 45 years and appreciated and learned from the example of many of the players he lists plus other notables like Jethro Burns and Simon Mayor. Zen |
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15 Jul 08 - 10:17 AM (#2389579) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: GUEST,Blue Why are you so nasty, vile and unprepared to accept someone else's talent, whichever and whatever they play. Great way to project your art form as something that people might want to get involved with. |
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15 Jul 08 - 10:30 AM (#2389593) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: quokka love it how people rise to the bait on this site! btw i love the Hands, very talented lads. Quokka |
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15 Jul 08 - 11:05 AM (#2389630) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: GUEST,In My Humble Opinion You see, eric the red is perpetuating what has become one of those wonderful music myths, SOH have never said they were folk, the only people saying they are, are those who are firmly in the anti-SOH camp. To stir the pot a wee bit, Phil Beer is the truly talented instrumentalist of the two....... |
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15 Jul 08 - 11:55 AM (#2389690) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Big Al Whittle Come to that my dad was mandolin player - that's neither here nor there. Of course people have played the mandolin since the year dot. My Dad didn't do what Phil did though - make albums that would aid the development of other mandolin players. As I remember he made a triple album - specifically for players who had learned a few tunes and wanted to make the next steps forward. Anyway if SOH don't say they're folk, i WILL. Some plonker in the Arts and Crafts movement restarts a pie thumping competition - complete with the pie thumpng song (that hasn't seen the light of day for six hundred years) and you buggers are queueing up hand out arts council grants and do special features on it. SOH write about a real festival like the Cheltenham Gold Cup or the recession in the poorest county in the realm - and its not folk music. you're enough to give a saint the screaming habdabs! |
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15 Jul 08 - 12:08 PM (#2389708) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Peace "the screaming habdabs" The Screamin' Habdabs THAT is the best name I have ever heard for a rock group. Just for the helluvit, imagine them doing traditional songs with electric instruments. |
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15 Jul 08 - 12:15 PM (#2389715) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: GUEST,In My Humble Opinion Actually The Screaming Abdabs and The Screamin' Ab Dabs have both been used before |
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15 Jul 08 - 12:18 PM (#2389720) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Peace How do you KNOW this stuff? Jaysus, I read your post IMHO and burst out laughing. Thank you. |
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15 Jul 08 - 12:20 PM (#2389722) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: GUEST Peace as soon as I saw your post, I thought, Pink Floyd, I'm showin' me age I am..... Though I must admit I didn't know about Alison Moyet fronting a band of a similar name, until I Googled Abdabs. |
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15 Jul 08 - 12:28 PM (#2389732) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Peace LOL Fantastic. Years back I was teaching in Canada's north and some kids played a new song for me by a group they had discovered. "I Want to Hold Your Hand" by the four lads from Liverpool. I asked if the kids thought the group would make it? They were in agreement. The group would be around for a while. I recall taking them some tapes (cassette) of Abby Road, SPLHCB, Revolver and one other. They were quite amazed. Those kids also listened to traditional songs in their language, country music and rock. The Kinks were new to them as were some other folks like Ry Cooder. Interesting time apart from some evenings at -55 degrees C. |
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15 Jul 08 - 01:13 PM (#2389788) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Gene Burton They're a very good live act. I was booked to support them once, not having heard much of their stuff before, and was sufficiently impressed to actually pay to go and see them the next time they were in my near vicinity. That said, it is probably true to say that it's Beer who carries them, musically and melodically. Some of the original songs are stronger than others. Where can we hear examples of Eric the Red's performing prowess, though, that's what I want to know. |
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15 Jul 08 - 01:16 PM (#2389793) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Gene Burton (lest there be any confusion, the above refers to Show of Hands, not the Beatles!) |
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15 Jul 08 - 01:16 PM (#2389794) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: In My Humble Opinion That was the question that slipped my mind. Is eric the red actually a performer? I for another would like to hear some examples of his work so we may compare and, if necessary, criticise. |
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15 Jul 08 - 02:16 PM (#2389866) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: GUEST,Colin Randall Eric, I suspect, is a member of the I-don't-like-them-so-there're-crap militia that patrols this site. Taking care not to fall into the same trap (I-like-them-so-they're-great), I would say that I did not always regard SoH as anything special. At one Albert HAll show, I thought them very ordinary, perhaps a reflection of how far back and up my seat was. But I have become more familiar with their music, seen them in more intimate settings, been closer at the Albert Hall and come to see them as an excellent duo and even better trio (with Miranda). Phil is the obvious musician, but Steve has a decent voice and writes the songs. Not all are winners - wouldn't most songwriters own up to that? - but the better ones, including Cousin Jack, Roots & Country Life, are, again in my view, outstanding. This is my my review at Salut! Live for anyone who cares. MBEs? I am probably with Eric on the honours system. |
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15 Jul 08 - 02:19 PM (#2389869) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Peace "Not all are winners - wouldn't most songwriters own up to that?" I would. |
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15 Jul 08 - 02:25 PM (#2389880) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Gene Burton "Not all are winners - wouldn't most songwriters own up to that?" I'd take great offence if ANY of mine were termed such! |
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15 Jul 08 - 05:11 PM (#2390103) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Seamus Kennedy We have a delightful term in Ireland for those who resent the success or talent of others - "fuckin' begrudgers". The degree of the begrudgery is proportional to the lack of talent of the begrudger. Seamus |
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15 Jul 08 - 05:21 PM (#2390114) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: In My Humble Opinion eric the red certainly lists a good list but does he actually play an instrument and /or sing. On second thoughts, I don't want to know, his stage presence would be awfully depressing.... |
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15 Jul 08 - 05:41 PM (#2390135) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: GUEST,Frug That's a great call Seamus................ I wish to feck people would either like, love or leave alone music without having to give it a fecking colonoscopy. Show of Hands are competent, entertaining and unpretentious. Phil Beer is a really good musician. Eric go have a lie down...........For anyone who indulges in the (anal)ysis of trad vs contemporary please see advice to Eric. I'd love to be a folk singer but I guess I was born too late to be taken seriously !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Frank |
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16 Jul 08 - 02:25 AM (#2390369) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Dave Hanson I've played mandolin for many years, tenor banjo not quite as long, I played semi pro in a band for a few years but just play for fun now. I don't begrudge Show Of Hands their success, it just irritates me when people proclaim them to be the worlds greatest gift to music and mankind in general, I've listened to, played, and been involved in folk music for over 40 years, SOH don't come close to the best of ANY folk/traditional or acoustic music I've listened to, seen or heard, not even in the top 50. eric |
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16 Jul 08 - 03:45 AM (#2390383) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: theleveller There's no such thing as a British Empire so how can anyone be a member of it. It's this sort of imperialist rubbish that has plagued this country for centuries. We're talking about folk music here not music that reinforces a class sytem headed by a bunch of over-privileged disfunctional wasters. (But, if anyone deserves an award it's SOH, so how about an RMFC - Respected Member of the Folk Community?) |
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16 Jul 08 - 05:41 AM (#2390414) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Big Al Whittle I'll tell you a story. Sometime in the 1970's I had this jugband - we used to call it Juggerlugs - a witty misapropriation of 'Buggerlugs' - a North of England term of endearment (for our colonial pals). Anyway we were pretty shite, but we had a residency at Tamworth Golf Club - we got three quid between us; and we got to see the pro act; and you could order anything off the menu - chicken and chips in a basket, scampi in a basket, steak and chips, whatever.... (I remember my wife(who played percussion) used help set up the gear, and then dash home to watch Poldark!) One night, this shitty old car draws up. And I recognise the DE registration - two young guys get out. And I say in my best Bob Cann/Ken Penny impersonation - ah! you'm fram Execketer! (trans: oh I see you chaps hail from the city of Exeter). fascinated by my expertise with car number plates - I have to confess that I only know abow about DE plates cos I used to live in Exeter. The two guys introduce themselves as Downes and Beer. And after some preliminary chatter it turns out that Phil's Dad is Ken Beer, who is my Dad's boss at the mental hospital in Exeter, and Paul Downes's Mum is the Downes of Downes and Paling who write maths books for junior schools - and she has something to do with Rolle College, Exmouth where my Mum was a mature student. As Kurt Vonnegut would say - a grand falloon! My memory of them is undiminshed. They were simply brilliant instrumentalists. I still think Paul Downes is the best guitar accompanist in England - Phil hopped from guitar to mandolin, to fiddle - retuning the guitar (at home in various open tunings) effortlessly - he must have been three or four years younger than I was - he just had mercurial and prodigious talent. I remember that that night they'd travelled up from Portsmouth - they were sleeping on someone's floor. the fee was £25 and they were working for the agent Joe Stead - so I presume, there was an agents commission to pay. And they were so generous spirited - writing down the words of songs we liked. You know the parable of the talents. these guys really have given it their best shot. I've watched the progress of Downes and Beer for over thirty years now. the Arizona smoke review, the solo projects, the Knightly connection...... godammit! they're not only pretty special - they've been special for a long time! |
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16 Jul 08 - 06:28 AM (#2390441) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: mattkeen Phil Beer is a terrifically good musician in my opinion and has made a real contribution. I don't think that means tha SOH should get MBEs though |
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16 Jul 08 - 06:47 AM (#2390452) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Terry McDonald WLD - can you translate 'falloon' for me? I've been puzzled by that word for 30 years. There's a song in the Hammond Brothers collection about Prince Albert called 'To Marry the Queen of England' and one verse has the lines 'My father gave me a nice falloon,a piece of bread and a mutton bone, and ninepence when I left ny home, to marry the Queen of England.' I've never been able to find out what a 'falloon' is, so....... |
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16 Jul 08 - 09:59 AM (#2390577) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Dave Hanson Totally agree with you about Paul Downes WLD and Phil Beer too is a great musician but including Steve Knightly they are not the be all and end all of ANY kind of music, it's vast world out there. eric |
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16 Jul 08 - 10:04 AM (#2390580) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Dave Hanson Incidently my being underwhelmed with SOH has nothing to do with fame and success, they still haven't reached the heights that the Dubliners did, a number 2 in the pop charts and appearing on Top Of The Pops, and I love the Dubs. eric |
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16 Jul 08 - 10:20 AM (#2390591) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Big Al Whittle I'm not sure about falloon in the case you mention. It was a word in a book called cats cradle by the late Kurt Vonnegut. Vonnegut wrote science fiction and the precise details of the story have disappeared into the abeyance file of my brain. But basically there was an extra terrestial life form who believed in a rational universe. Random coincidence was when the creator sort of lifted his skirts and gave you a glimpse or a sense of the great cosmic plan being in place just under the surface reality - these moments of revelation were falloons. A falloon would be Paul Downes's Mum knowing my Mum. A grand falloon would Phil Beer's dad knowing my dad AS WELL! |
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16 Jul 08 - 10:29 AM (#2390594) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Terry McDonald Oh well....thanks for such a detailed response. It'll have to remain a mystery (for now). |
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16 Jul 08 - 12:02 PM (#2390660) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: In My Humble Opinion As I stated before the only people calling SOH folk are the anti SOH crowd, nowhere in any interview have Steve Knightley or Phil Beer ever said they are folk. |
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16 Jul 08 - 01:12 PM (#2390718) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Big Al Whittle Well I called 'em folk, and I'm not anti SOH. |
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16 Jul 08 - 01:29 PM (#2390734) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Peace I'm still tryna figure out what an MBE is. |
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16 Jul 08 - 01:30 PM (#2390736) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: bubblyrat For many many years, in Henley-on-Thames,has there been a dress-shop called " Gladys Falloon ", so at least we know that the word exists, if only as a surname. As to SOH- well, I can't say I really like them very much. I personally think that PB is a talented and gifted musician,whilst SK is supremely egotistical to the point almost of narcissism,and his boring songs all sound the same to me. But if I had an OBE to spare, I would certainly give Miranda one !! |
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16 Jul 08 - 01:32 PM (#2390738) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: GUEST,Reverend Unseemly Dogposture MBE It's full title is, The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire |
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16 Jul 08 - 01:36 PM (#2390746) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Peace Thank you Mr Doghouse. |
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16 Jul 08 - 01:38 PM (#2390747) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Peace Fuck, I'm sorry. I meant Mr Dogposture. |
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16 Jul 08 - 01:41 PM (#2390753) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: GUEST,Rev Ignatius Niblung Goosecreature Ahhh...Gladys Falloon..the darling of Roper's 5th Mounted... |
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17 Jul 08 - 04:58 AM (#2391199) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Big Al Whittle Lets stop pissing about with interim measures, and go for immediate canonisation. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=78Y7cBLJWgI&feature=related I rest my case. |
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17 Jul 08 - 06:32 AM (#2391257) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Dave Hanson To qualify for canonisation you need to be dead, and SOH don't deserve that. eric |
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17 Jul 08 - 06:38 AM (#2391260) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Big Al Whittle I didn't know you had to be dead. Couldn't we waive the rules - its a very deserving case. |
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17 Jul 08 - 07:01 AM (#2391274) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Paco Rabanne Show of Hands are Godlike and kick arse! I think they should be elevated to the Peerage today. |
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17 Jul 08 - 07:44 AM (#2391295) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: GUEST,Liam "As I stated before the only people calling SOH folk are the anti SOH crowd, nowhere in any interview have Steve Knightley or Phil Beer ever said they are folk". Here's one where they do. They have called themselves folk at most gigs of theirs I have been at too. Living Tradition Sod MBEs. Where are their EFDSS Gold Medals is what I want to know? They have both done just as much for folk as some of its recipients. I think it might surprise some EFDSS Council Members just how many traditional songs there are in the Show of Hands repertoire, but then they might actually need to listen to Show of Hands play or more than one CD to find out. |
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17 Jul 08 - 09:03 AM (#2391338) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Spleen Cringe PEACE: The Screamin' Habdabs THAT is the best name I have ever heard for a rock group. Personally I always wanted a rock group called the Sex Mittens. Made up of ex-members of the Love Puppets. |
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17 Jul 08 - 10:37 AM (#2391394) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Dave the Gnome ELEVATED to the peerage, PR? It would be a downward step for me:-P Incidently. Why does Prince Philip keep his chamber pot on top of the wardrobe? Becasue he is the highest peer in the land. :D |
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17 Jul 08 - 12:48 PM (#2391514) Subject: RE: Show of Hands for MBEs From: Ruth Archer EFDSS awards gold badges, not medals. If anyone from within the membership nominated SoH, I'm sure it would be given due consideration by the panel. Are you a member, Liam? You could nominate them yourself. |