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22 Jul 08 - 09:58 AM (#2395042) Subject: Advice Req: Dance Tunes and Airs - talk From: Newport Boy I've started preparing a talk for our Music Group, and I'm looking for suggestions for tracks to illustrate the talk. The title in the programme is: Dance Tunes and Airs of Britain - A look at the traditional music of England and her Celtic neighbours, and the instruments on which it was played. I don't want to re-open discussions on what is traditional music, or how it should be performed. This talk will present my view, and the main parameters are already decided. This is the third in a series of talks I'm giving to a Music Group which was set up primarily for 'Classical Music and Opera'. I'm stretching them a bit towards the 'folk/blues/traditional' side - others are doing the same towards jazz. My earlier talks were on The Guitar and Voices a Capella, and so I won't be including any guitar or unaccompanied singing in this one. (I can break my own rules, though - I'm starting by giving them one solo verse of 'All Hail to the Days' to show a link between dance tunes and song tunes.) I'm mainly looking for suggestions for the instruments to be included, performers and tunes. I can use a maximum of about 40 minutes music in total, and no more than 20 tracks (including short excerpts). I'd like to represent the main classes of instrument - in the words of a classical player friend, those you bang, scrape, pluck, blow or squeeze. I would also welcome opinions on whether the difference between various types of concertina, for example, would be heard by a non-expert audience. I'll try to keep up with any discussion - I'm around until next Monday, at least. Over to you! Phil |
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22 Jul 08 - 10:56 AM (#2395105) Subject: RE: Advice Req: Dance Tunes and Airs - talk From: greg stephens The question re Anglo v English concertinas is intriguing. I would say yes, you could pick tracks from the two kinds that would point up the difference very clearly. I am not, however, going to make a suggestion as to which tracks, I'll leave that to concertina players. May I make a suggestion that you mention the banjo in the course of your talk, an often neglected stalwart of the country dance bands. The greatest living exponent is Robert Murch, get a recording of his with Dan Quinn(I think they have a new group called The Talk, but I may be wrong. It might be the Walk, or something else unlikely). |
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22 Jul 08 - 04:10 PM (#2395363) Subject: RE: Advice Req: Dance Tunes and Airs - talk From: Newport Boy Thanks Greg - I'll look out for Robert Murch. I had intended to leave out the banjo (although it's one of my favourite instruments) on the basis that it was a recent introduction from America. However, the banjo came to Britain around the 1840's, and the various concertinas, etc were only 20 or so years earlier, so maybe I'll reconsider. Phil |
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23 Jul 08 - 04:53 AM (#2395756) Subject: RE: Advice Req: Dance Tunes and Airs - talk From: Newport Boy refresh I'd expected a flood of opinions - are you all asleep? Phil |
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23 Jul 08 - 05:37 AM (#2395772) Subject: RE: Advice Req: Dance Tunes and Airs - talk From: Paul Burke I suppose no one wants to reignite "what is a traditional instrument", and wisely too. You need to cover all the influences: ancient roots (traditional bagpipes say); fashion/art music influences (availability of instruments like fiddle, flageolet, flute, guitar; the Frenchification of the Northumbrian and Uilleann pipes); popular music influences (early/ late music hall and theatre bringing concertinas, accordeons, melodeons, guitars); communal culture like brass bands. And then discuss why only some of those inputs took in the "folk tradition". If it was the availability of cheap instruments, what happened to all those redundant art music lutes after the mid 18th century? Church cornetts and serpents? Why did the concertina become a "folk" instrument but not the guitar (in England) until the American influence of the Revival(s)? Why were the smaller brass instruments not used in, say, Morris? (or the larger ones for that matter) Or were they? Why did bagpipes go out of fashion? I can tell you why the saxophone and oboe haven't caught on in Irish sessions: the one's too loud and strident, the other too hard to play. It's a deep subject, that touches on late unhappy exchanges here, and though I'm no expert, it seems solid information is either hard to come by, or discounted for ideological reasons. Who played what, and when, and was it traditional music or some other kind? I suppose you could start by talking of self- defining musical communities, and how they define themselves, and go from there. |
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23 Jul 08 - 06:20 AM (#2395788) Subject: RE: Advice Req: Dance Tunes and Airs - talk From: Newport Boy Thanks, Paul. In three short paragraphs you've given me more leads than I can possibly use - although I will follow them up for my own satisfaction. I'm limited by time and the audience. Time is 40 + 30 minutes, and I've found that 40 minutes of music and 30 of talking goes down best with the audience. Since most of them have no knowledge of traditional/folk music, my talk needs to be more about what they are going to hear rather than why I'm playing it. You've crystallised my thought on one aspect. I had intended to draw a line re instruments around 1850, but I think I'll extend it to nearer 1900 to take in fully the influence of the music hall. As I said in my opening post, I don't want to re-open discussions on what is traditional music, or how it should be performed. I will be including, for example, one or two of Dave Swarbrick's fiddle tunes, mainly because I like them and the audience will enjoy them, but also because they demonstrate how the 'tradition' continues to develop. This is not an academic talk. It's designed to open the ears of a 'classical' audience to other types of music. Phil |
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23 Jul 08 - 06:30 AM (#2395799) Subject: RE: Advice Req: Dance Tunes and Airs - talk From: Dave Hunt The band with Rob Murch/Dan Quinn and Gareth Kiddier is 'The Watch' And - Greg is hiding his light - he is a wonderful banjo player himself - so look for him with 'The Boat Band' too! There is also plenty of music stuff on 'Voice of the People' Dave |
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23 Jul 08 - 07:22 AM (#2395834) Subject: RE: Advice Req: Dance Tunes and Airs - talk From: Newport Boy OK - The Watch & The Boat Band go on the list - I liked the clips of both. I'll be adding them to my collection, but will probably have to choose between them to include in the talk. I've only got the selected CD from Voice of the People, and it's mostly singers. I included some tracks in my previous talk, but for this one I'm looking for instrumental tunes. Phil |
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23 Jul 08 - 12:19 PM (#2396054) Subject: RE: Advice Req: Dance Tunes and Airs - talk From: Paul Burke This lecture by Paul Roberts of the Village Music Project covers some interesting ground.... though for all I know you could BE Paul Roberts! |
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23 Jul 08 - 12:30 PM (#2396060) Subject: RE: Advice Req: Dance Tunes and Airs - talk From: Newport Boy No - I'm Phil, not Paul! And I wish I had that depth of knowledge. There's an awful lot of reading there, but a quick scan gives me a few good points re the fiddle. Phil |
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23 Jul 08 - 12:48 PM (#2396071) Subject: RE: Advice Req: Dance Tunes and Airs - talk From: Les in Chorlton On various walls in parts of Stoke can still be read those famous words: Greg Stephens is erm, God! |