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28 Aug 08 - 08:22 PM (#2424995) Subject: BS: Help please, I want to sing From: skipy I want to sing, you have NO idea how MUCH I want to sing, I beat myself up everytime I come home from a festival without singing. What can I do so that I can sing, it is getting me down so much, otherwise I would not ask for help! (asking for help is not my way normally) Skipy (reduced to begging) |
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28 Aug 08 - 08:28 PM (#2425002) Subject: RE: BS: Help please, I want to sing From: CarolC This thread deserves to be above the line. |
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28 Aug 08 - 08:29 PM (#2425003) Subject: RE: BS: Help please, I want to sing From: Bobert What exactly do you mean, Skipy??? Okay, let's begin with this question... Can you sing??? I mena, do you know how to sing??? Can you hold a tune??? If the answer to these questions is "No" then no need to go much further... If it's "yes" then maybe we need to look for other venues that are more open??? B~ |
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28 Aug 08 - 08:31 PM (#2425005) Subject: RE: BS: Help please, I want to sing From: skipy Fair comment the probable answer is No. So please kill the thread Skipy |
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28 Aug 08 - 08:39 PM (#2425013) Subject: RE: BS: Help please, I want to sing From: curmudgeon Who told you that you can'r "carry a tune?" If it is your own assessment, it's probably wrong. An idea - go to a shanty session/festival. Bring an honest friend to stand with you, an sing out on the choruses, then ask your friend his/her opinion. Another approach would be to spend a few bucks/quid on a voice instructor and get an evaluation. But don't give up ! Tom |
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28 Aug 08 - 08:44 PM (#2425019) Subject: RE: BS: Help please, I want to sing From: skipy Who told you that you can't "carry a tune?" Quote. About 17/18 years ago a female member of the folk world, also a mudcat member said "I've heard worse, but I can't remember where" So I stopped going to folk clubs. I never recovered from that, she took so much away from me, I see her once a year, she will not remember saying it, but the damage is done. I need help to repair it. Skipy |
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28 Aug 08 - 08:48 PM (#2425022) Subject: RE: BS: Help please, I want to sing From: astro Skipy, I know how you feel. I can keep a tune until it walks away from me. curmudgeon's idea was a good one. Desert Dancer and I went to a shanty session down in San Pedro (by the port in LA) and I could sing to my heart's content since no one could hear me above all of the loud singing going on...Had a great time (the ale didn't hurt). If you want to do more than that, then getting a good voice teacher would be a good idea. Let the teacher know what you want to do (if there is a college close by, many times the voice students will give voice lessons to help make their way and it's cheaper). Raise your voice and take care...astro |
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28 Aug 08 - 08:54 PM (#2425029) Subject: RE: BS: Help please, I want to sing From: John O'L Even if you can't sing it doesn't mean you can't learn to sing. Your voice might just need a bit of training. There are very few who can hold a tune without training. Go see a teacher. |
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28 Aug 08 - 08:55 PM (#2425030) Subject: RE: BS: Help please, I want to sing From: olddude Skipy sing for yourself, sing only for yourself. If you do that because something inside you says I have to do this I want to do this. Then others will hear it and be moved by it. My best friend Garry always wanted to sing and play guitar. I gave him one of mine 3 months ago. He is doing pretty well. He loved to sing , he has no voice at all could not carry a tune. I told him exactly that, so what, so what, you sing and play for yourself Garry not for anyone else. You know what, he don't sound bad now. I like to hear him. He is not afraid to do it because he says you were right Dan, I do it for me. Others will hear your heart, they feel your soul when you connect to a song. It is pure emotion. Just remember it is for you and only for you. Then you will move others with your music. |
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28 Aug 08 - 08:56 PM (#2425032) Subject: RE: BS: Help please, I want to sing From: skipy Asto, Thanks, good advice but I am to scared to go in the venues, they are filled with friends who want me to sing but I am too scared to do so, so I am scared to go in incase they ask me to sing. If I could just go in & sit down & join in & not have to sing I would be happy. There are so many good minded people who do not realise that they make it impossible for me to be in a venue. Skipy |
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28 Aug 08 - 08:57 PM (#2425033) Subject: RE: BS: Help please, I want to sing From: Sandra in Sydney I can't hold a tune on my own, but no singing session is complete unless I'm there! In my opinion, of course! Tho as serious singing friends & acquaintances include me when running a session, there must be some truth in my opinion. Seriously, singers who sit beside me say I can sing well, but I still can't hold a tune of my own when I try at home. So I add my voice to choruses (gotta add voices to choruses!) & in a few weeks I'll once again be leading a singing session at a small participatory festival. Last year I was one of 2 people at this gathering who were not dancers, singers or musos. But we're both chorus singers. sandra, part of the 3 woman singing craft circle at our local shanty singing session! (knitting & singing go well together) |
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28 Aug 08 - 09:04 PM (#2425040) Subject: RE: BS: Help please, I want to sing From: Sandra in Sydney lots of folks posted while I was typing. One of the first times I attended a folk club the audience divided to sing different songs. The group I was in was women who sang far too high for my voice so I sang along quietly even when one looked down her nose at me. Stuff you, I said to myself as I kept singing, normally I would have stopped doing whatever was being criticized by someone else. YAH a victory! Now I don't try to sing along when my soprano friends are the only ones singing. sandra |
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28 Aug 08 - 09:05 PM (#2425041) Subject: RE: BS: Help please, I want to sing From: Alice Skipy, I was so scared the first time I went to see a voice teacher, I could not even sing for her... I took a cassette tape of me singing and played it for her instead, asking, Is it a waste of our time for me to take singing lessons from you. The thing is, once you learn more vocal skills, the more confidence you have, the better you sound... it just keeps building up better and better over time. If you can find a teacher, that will help to build your confidence to sing in public for others. Alice |
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28 Aug 08 - 09:05 PM (#2425043) Subject: RE: BS: Help please, I want to sing From: olddude And Skipy who says you can't, look at guys like Dylan. His voice is his voice it is unique and moving. Compare him to a Frank Sinatra and those people would say Dylan can't sing. I could listen to Dylan until my ear fell off, it is all emotion. Dollars to donuts when he first took the stage he did it for himself because something said inside that he had to do this or would not feel complete. I am sure you have a great voice, it is YOUR voice, as unique as you are. You can make that voice into something that will move people. You don't have to be a Sinatra to do that. Listen to the great blues guys. Their voice is theirs alone, completely unique and nothing like a big band singer. You can do this I know you can and it will be wonderful when you do. |
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28 Aug 08 - 09:06 PM (#2425045) Subject: RE: BS: Help please, I want to sing From: ClaireBear Skipy, as Astro suggests, chantey sings are your perfect venue. Sing along instead of leading on your own. The louder you bellow, the saltier you will sound. Once you've rediscovered your self-confidence in that utterly uncritical environment, then DO seek training, which can do amazing things for one. Good luck with it! Claire |
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28 Aug 08 - 09:16 PM (#2425050) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Jerry Rasmussen Hey, skipy: Do you mean sing, or perform? There is a difference. My wife claims that she can't sing, and yet when we're in church singing hymns, she sings softly beside me and she is on pitch. I'm not saying that she could be the next great singer, but she CAN sing. She is lacking in confidence, and moreso, doesn't have a strong desire to sing. She also doesn't want to speak in public (in front of an audience...) That doesn't mean that she can't speak. If you want to sing, don't put pressure on yourself to sing in a club (even singing chanties.) We encourage singing, sitting at the kitchen table. The best thing about that is that no one can hear you :-0, and we're very encouraging. If you ever get over this way, come on up to our place, we'll get a group of people together who can and "can't" sing, and we'll all sing and have a good time. Jerry |
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28 Aug 08 - 09:31 PM (#2425062) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: skipy In less than a month I will at a festival that is all sing, I will be too scared to enter the venue so will stand outside & listen, it will my 24th year there, I want to go in but am SOO scared that they will ask me to sing. I wish I could just go in & sit down & enjoy it. Skipy |
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28 Aug 08 - 09:54 PM (#2425078) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Sandra in Sydney do other folks sometimes refuse when asked to sing? Are there also chorus singers in the venue? sandra |
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28 Aug 08 - 10:01 PM (#2425080) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Bill D DO you sing in private?...where no one can hear? Can you hear your own voice and tell whether you are 'on key'? Can you tell when OTHERS are on or off key? I can hear when anyone, including myself, is 'right', but it often takes some work...and just getting my vocal cords used to making the shapes... to hit it right. If you can tell the difference, you can probably learn. You can't just go in and start in the middle. Another question is, do you know some songs? After 20+ years, you ought to know WHAT you want to sing. Can you sing those songs along with others? I know one guy here whose singing was almost painful years ago, but he has worked on it, and does quite passably now. Who do you know that CAN sing and can be trusted to listen and make suggestions? Gotta start somewhere... |
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28 Aug 08 - 10:40 PM (#2425087) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Rapparee Go in, sing out, and if they don't like it tell them to...well, maybe not. There might be big, nasty types in there. But sing for yourself. Take lessons...and don't worry about it if the teacher says "Lordy, you got a voice like bull moose in heat!" Sing along with your favorite recordings. Sing in the shower. Sing when you're cutting the grass (the mower will drown you out). Sing in church, if you go. Demosthenes orated with a mouthful of rocks on the seashore and became a great orator -- give it a try: sing against breaking waves. Roll up the windows and sing while you drive. Singing is like reading and writing -- the more you do it the better you get. Like reading and writing, it's great for the soul. |
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28 Aug 08 - 10:42 PM (#2425089) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Ref Well, put, Rapaire! Sing for yourself and to Hell with anyone who tries to quash you. |
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29 Aug 08 - 12:03 AM (#2425111) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Rowan If you've been around festivals for 24 years, skipy, you must have heard one or two songs you particularly wanted to join in with. I'd go along with many of the suggestions others have already put but there are some caveats I'd offer as well. Most of us probably learned the art of singing along with others from a very early age at church, school, camps, family gatherings etc. Some of us were lucky enough to escape the "critical audience" and may even have been encouraged to keep on singing or even to take on leading roles in the respective group(s). Most of the people posting have learned and know their limits or have pushed themselves beyond any limits and can offer useful advice. Others weren't so lucky. My first wife always claimed to be tone deaf and, whenever she sang along in my company (at my encouragement at parties, bushwalking trips etc), she'd go through at least five unrelated keys in a four line stanza. One day during our courtship I returned home through a back door (and unobserved) while she was at the kitchen sink, washing the dishes. She was singing to herself and had a really sweet voice; I was gobsmacked when I realised she was perfectly in tune for the whole length of the song as I stood listening, unobserved. She wasn't tone deaf at all. I figured she'd been told "You can't sing!" from an early (and formative) age. Sure enough, one one occasion when I was visiting her parents' place, I was singing to myself when her mother walked in. "Can you whistle?" she challenged, in a rather hostile manner. On another occasion I was whistling and she challenged "Can you sing?" with the same hostile tone. Then again, she never actually liked me. So, sing to yourself, well away from critical audiences until your confidence builds. While getting alongside other singers in a group is a tried and true technique, it's helpful if the pitch range they're singing in is within your own range. Sometimes you can be a bit fooled, when singing to and by yourself, into starting a song too low; it seems OK when you start but you find out into the melody that it wants to go lower than your voice can handle. I've lost count of the number of singers I've heard do this; it disappears with experience (read "practice"). If you're in a session of shanties or harmony choruses, try standing near someone you reckon has got it together and humming under your breath. It may be that their vocal range is beyond yours; if so, find someone singing a different part and hum their line under your breath. With repetition (trad. folksongs are great at repetition) you'll gradually get confidence to sing (softly at first) rather than hum. If someone notices you and looks askance, shut your eyes and keep on going with your ears and your voice for company. When you say you can't face going inside and being part of a group session, I get the impression you feel afraid of being the centre of attention. All I can suggest (if this is the case) is that you go inside and place yourself 'on the sidelines' so to speak and just keep your eyes shut while you're listening/humming/singing. If you have a friend you can trust to keep others from disturbing you while doing this, take them along. But, as Rapaire says, lose no opportunity to have a go. And, Sandra, I never knew you had experienced such trouble; I always thought your singing was wonderful! Cheers, Rowan |
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29 Aug 08 - 01:15 AM (#2425133) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: CarolC If not singing is what is really wanted, I have a lot of experience at that. I never allow people to pressure me to sing, and I never let my not singing prevent me from going to a venue where everybody will be singing. I go in and enjoy what the others are doing, and if anyone tries to pressure me to sing, I just smile and tell them I don't sing, and that's that. And I also tell them that somebody has to be the audience. I've never been kicked out for doing that, and most folks don't ostracize me for it either. Some people think there's something wrong with me, but I'm an instrumentalist, and I figure that's good enough for me. |
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29 Aug 08 - 01:56 AM (#2425138) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Ernest If you can`t sing, you are not drunk enough... ;0) No, seriously: maybe you haven`t found the right songs yet. It won`t sound great when somebody with an untrained voice is trying to do a song that even good singers would find difficult. But since you like folk you won`t have too much trouble finding songs that are easy enough. Sometimes accompanying yourself on an instrument helps to stay in tune (or reasonably close to it ;0) And what the others said. Good luck Ernest (same situation here) |
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29 Aug 08 - 02:48 AM (#2425147) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Jim Carroll I believe that it lies within the abilities of virtually everybody to sing, and, if you work at it, to sing well - to some people it comes easy, the rest of us have to put in the time. Tone deafness is very rare and is often used as an excuse not to make the effort. We have found in the workshops we have been involved in that the greatest cause of not being to hold down a tune is tension - the raising of the shoulders, tightness across the chest spreading up into the throat; which also affects the breathing so you are unable to sing a full line of a tune. I'm not sold on the idea of practicing in public (not a way of judging your progress, and not fair on the listener; also, if you develop faults at the beginning without checking them, they're a bugger to get rid of later). I think there are some merits in Rowan's suggestion of joining in choruses, but quite often this can be neutralised by choruses being harmonised. Try singing the basic tune of a song with a recording - some of the older singers are great for this. Take a song with a basic tune to try out on - we used the children's song 'Johnny Todd', but there are plenty of others in the childrens' repertoire. Never practice on a song you particularly like - you can kill it stone dead - on the other hand, pick a song that you do like and aim for it as your first milestone - very satisfying when you manage to make it work. By far, I found the best way to begin singing was to find a sympathetic ear with a little basic knowledge and to work one-to-one. Personally, I wouldn't go within a mile of a 'teacher' unless I felt I had to tackle a specific problem, and then, I would confine anything I did to that problem. You can catch bad habits, idiosyncrasies and mannerisms from a singing teacher quicker than you can catch flu. Even in the workshops we helped run, this was the way we worked with people who had never sung before. Listen to yourself on a recording (painful at first - but you really do get used to it); it is as important to develop your ear as it is to develop your voice. Good Luck, Jim Carroll |
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29 Aug 08 - 03:36 AM (#2425172) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Cats Hi Skipy, We have put you down on the list of singers for next years Fox and Hounds. It is still very small and very friendly and loads of people who now sing regularly started there. All you have to do now is learn some words. Don't worry about the tune as we will all help you with that when you get here. I might even tempt you with black lace! |
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29 Aug 08 - 03:45 AM (#2425180) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Richard Spencer Skipy, you don't make it clear what you think your problem is, but you might be interested in this. I can sing, and love singing. But I suffer from nerves, sometimes so badly that I can't get enough breath to sing, and have in the past pretended that I couldn't sing rather than make a fool of myself. Now I will not allow myself to take that option and always sing when I have the opportunity, but it can be a real struggle. For completely different reasons (crippling RSI) I recently started a course in the Alexander technique. This is not singing tuition although many singers and musicians study it. It is however excellent in teaching you to learn to free up those bits (and there are a lot) of you that you use for singing, and is great for growing self confidence. A short quote from an article on Alexander technique and singing: "If you proceed with the clear understanding of how the voice works--that it is designed to "sing," and that it is all set in motion by the desire to communicate and express beauty--and you combine this understanding with a balanced "use of the self," a lot of the problems you meet will sort themselves out. In the process, you will understand more and more that we are, indeed, born to sing." The whole article is here Singing and the Alexander Technique I too believe that everyone can sing (unless their apparatus is damaged). Don't give up trying. Richard |
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29 Aug 08 - 03:58 AM (#2425187) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: GUEST,Betsy at work Honestly - try singing Baa Baa black sheep to one of your friends. It will give some idea if you can hold a simple tune which goes up and down the scales Cats has made you an offer you can't refuse - audiences ARE extremely supportive to people who are just beginning. Lot's of them would love to be able to sing but lack the ability or the confidence to do so , and they admire you for "giving it a go". Maybe have a beer or a glass of your favourite tipple beforehand to relax and treat like a great adventure / journey into the unknown. It is important to sing a song which you REALLY like ,in other words , don't try to sing a shanty ,if you're not a lover of shanties - pick a song that YOU like. If all else fails , come and hear me sing , after which, you will almost certainly say to yourself , Jeez!!! I must be able to sing better than THAT. Very best wishes and good luck for a positive result. |
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29 Aug 08 - 04:00 AM (#2425189) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Megan L Skipy My dear Listen to me NEVER let someone steal your joy, I did for to long now I say "stuff you" to anyone who tries and do what brings me happiness. We have a local lass that does "I cant sing classes" I know several people who have attended the difference she has made in these folks lives is amazing several of the girls have now formed a choir, they don't sing much in public yet but they meet together and have a wonderful time as thier confidence builds. Keep an eye open there may be someone doing a similar thing near you. :) If not you will jist hae tae come tae Orkney fur yer holiday and meet Aimee. You can do it You will get enjoyment from it There are folks here who believe in you and want you to be the best YOU in the world. Just remember jist cause someones a folkie disny always mean they are right:) GO DO IT Awra best frae Dauvitt and his Meg |
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29 Aug 08 - 04:02 AM (#2425190) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Joe Offer My wife Christina loves to sing, so I have to be very careful what I say around her - because her singing can be really awful. If she's singing behind me or in my ear, I can't sing myself because she's so far off pitch. About three years ago, we hired a wonderful choir director, and she put Christina in the alto section, surrounded by strong singers. Alto is much closer to her vocal range, so she's doing much better. Now she's joined a Threshold Choir and she's really enjoying herself. So, Skipy, find some strong, generous singers who will take you under their wing, and you may surprise yourself - just don't sing in their ear. Also, have somebody help you find the range of your voice, and then find songs that fit that range - or learn to sing harmony. -Joe- |
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29 Aug 08 - 04:03 AM (#2425191) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Liz the Squeak Skip - should we be outside the Towersey Barn in the beer queue again, I'd be happy to help you with your predicament. Sometimes an anonymous or only slightly known ear is better than a friend. Friends will try not to hurt your feelings, whereas a stranger or acquaintance will be a bit more honest. But as said above, just keep singing, regardless of what people have told you in the past. Someone once told me to stop laughing in church. I went and found a friendlier church and people who didn't care how I laugh. You can do it. Really, you can! LTS |
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29 Aug 08 - 04:08 AM (#2425194) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Peace '"I've heard worse, but I can't remember where"' That type of comment comes from someone who's having a bad day, has no class and is likely mediocre herself. Go see a voice teacher. Best to you, skipy. |
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29 Aug 08 - 04:40 AM (#2425206) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Two stages to this Skipy First:- Don't stand outside, afraid to go in and maybe be asked to sing. GO IN! When asked if you will sing, reply "Not today, I'll just enjoy the music". Ninety percent of people will leave it at that, and the more persistent will quit when you say "No" the second time. Join the choruses when you feel happy to do so. Second:- Once you are used to BEING in a session, start to prepare just a couple of your favourite songs, and work on them till you feel ready. Now go in to your venue and surprise the hell out of them by saying "I think I might sing tonight". They will love it, even if you aren't the best performer they've ever heard. Remember this:- EVERYBODY WILL WANT YOU TO SUCCEED, AND YOU WILL. Don T. |
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29 Aug 08 - 05:37 AM (#2425233) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Right, first of all, the singing *isn't* the problem here. The problem is, dear Skipy, that you have let someone else rule your life for way too long, and you have chosen to do so, perhaps without realising it. "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent" - Eleanor Roosevelt You have given her permission to take away decades of enjoyment for you. You now have to sit and decide that she either wins for the rest of your life, and on your dying bed you suddenly realise what you did...OR..you decide, from this moment onwards, to take *back* control of your life, your singing and your future. People who want to wound do so. Then, they simply move on, without any thought of those they have hurt. You have to see that one person's opinion is just *that*...ONE opinion. There will always be someone who doesn't like the way someone sings, plays, paints, designs, looks, walks, talks...or writes. But that person is NOT everyone. We all love different things, different paintings, different types of music, etc.. But I know the damage so often goes so very deep. Heck, my daughter was told by her art teacher that her work was "crap"...and it made her want to give up on life, because her art WAS her life. At that point, I took her out of school, forever. She put away her brushes for two years, and it took much love to repair the damage. Yes, she's painting again, but she is still filled with self-doubt, because that word, spoken so thoughtlessly by a woman who didn't give a shit about any of her students, and was known for it.....found it's way into a deeply sensitive heart, into a soul who was born to paint. You have that same sensitivity, skipy...and so often that sensitivity carries with it a deep talent, a creative talent. Take one step at a time. Go to the singing festivals with your friends, but tell them you'd just like to watch...or...you can tell a small lie, which won't hurt anyone, and say you have a sore throat and can't sing at present, which will get them off your back about taking part. Then, just sit there quietly, watching, listening, absorbing it all, just enjoying it. If that goes OK, then go to another one, go to a folk club...but don't be worried about saying "Thanks, but no thank you, not just at the moment"...because if they're true friends, they'll respect that...and let you come back to singing in your own time. Your voice is obviously desperate to get out again.. :0) That's why it's brought you here to tell people, to ask for help....so listen to your voice...and know that one way or another, that voice is going to come back. Don't be like Mr. Tanner..learn from his story, which at the minute is also your story. Write yourself a different ending, but understand that you are not alone in being easily wounded. Harry Chapin - Mr. Tanner Anyone who gives you criticism which is *not* constructive and delivered with your best interests at heart, in a loving way, should never be listened to, because all they are doing is feeding their own spiteful nature. Do NOT give her your permission, skipy, withdraw it, from this moment on. "..And he sang from his heart, and he sang from his soul. And he did not know how well he sang, it just made him whole" - Harry Chapin. |
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29 Aug 08 - 06:09 AM (#2425244) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Mo the caller If someone is running a singaround they have a job to do. Making sure that all the people who want to sing get their chance. So when we say 'we'll just join in the choruses' they are not going to pressure us, more time for everyone else to do their party piece. |
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29 Aug 08 - 06:46 AM (#2425268) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: maeve I've already spoken to you via PM skipy, but I want to send you courage and strength again. There is a great deal of truth and solid ideas in this thread. You'll be freeing yourself of old pains and helping folks you don't even know by trying again and again and again. Someone is reading your thread and finding exactly what they've been needing to allow them to sing. I found my voice again and you can find yours. maeve |
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29 Aug 08 - 07:17 AM (#2425287) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: kendall skipy, Even those of us who can sing can also learn from listening to our own voice on a recording.One thing I have learned is, I tend to sing too fast. Since cancer took my voice away I am unable to sing at all, and nothing is going to give it back. You can not imagine the depression that has caused. At least for you, there is a chance. All you need is some professional help. I say if you can walk you can sing. |
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29 Aug 08 - 07:42 AM (#2425296) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler Don't think that you need a perfect voice to be appreciated. SailorRon is an excellent example of someone whose performances are eagerly sought out by many people because he is well worth listening to despite not having the voice of an "Irish linnet". If you really are unhappy with the sound of your singing then you could try songs that rely on their comedic element, or opt for poetry, or dialect poetry if that feels better, or try storytelling, which has its own challenges. I used to visit a folk session where a new regular started coming and he was dreadful, and appologetic, but persistent. He was encouraged to keep trying and after a few months there was the start of a definate improvement which seemed to accelerate away. After about 18 months you wouldn't think twice about asking him to sing. Partly it was because he wanted to sing some particular songs that nobody else in the area was singing, so he couldn't join in the chorus! I do know one person who cannot sing a scale, but can sing the notes of a chord. She doesn't seem able to sing a note an octave different from another one. |
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29 Aug 08 - 07:42 AM (#2425297) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Kampervan Hi there Skipy One thing that you've sai a few times on your posts is that 'friends keep asking you to sing'. Presumably these guys have heard you joining in with the choruses or whatever and know what your voice sounds like. So presumably they WANT to hear you. Don't disappoint them. If you're really unhappy with solo to start with maybe do a song with one other person and build up your confidence. But please don't let one crass comment from someone years ago spoil both your pleasure and other peoples enjoyment of something that you want to do. And remember, (unless you've insulted their parentage) the audience will be on your side and wanting to like you. The audience is not the enemy - your fear is. Go for it |
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29 Aug 08 - 08:29 AM (#2425316) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: SINSULL I host Song Circles here in Maine, skipy. The witch who said that to you would have been told not to come back. We have people who are professionals and people who sing because they want to. Everyone can and should sing. That said, I often don't. I have no confidence in my voice and sing only when I feel up to it. I do best (read: I enjoy myself the most) when I sing a song I love often to the dismay of those listening. I love Gay Nineties and tear jerker material. Not everyone's cup of tea. Choose two songs that you love. Learn them inside and out. Meantime sing along on the chorus whenever and where ever you can. Then, when you have a friendly audience and the spirit moves you, sing one of your songs. That first attempt is a bit of a nightmare. I was lucky - sitting next to Susan A-R and accompanied ever so gently by Jeri on fiddle. I had waited until all of the "professionals" including Kendall had left. Now I sing when I want and don't when I am not up to it but always join in the chorus. And despite my cat's objestions, I sing in the shower and at the computer and... Go for it! |
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29 Aug 08 - 08:33 AM (#2425323) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: maeve And I've been fortunate enough to hear Sinsull sing- I love her singing. |
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29 Aug 08 - 08:43 AM (#2425330) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: lady penelope I'm with Don and Carol C. (and others). Don't let anyone pressure you into singing if you don't want to. Only sing in front of people when you are ready to do so. Singing is such a personal thing and it should never be made a burden for you. I've always held singing as the thing that I keep for myself, it's what brings me true joy and I won't have anyone else spoil it for me. If your friends keep asking you to sing, maybe they should really be asking themselves why you don't. However well meaning a friend, they can actually make you feel worse, because in the end you feel like you're letting them down. The possibility here is that maybe your friends are letting you down by not appreciating why you find this so hard. It really bugs me when I see people who run sing-a-rounds really push for someone to sing. There are all sorts of reasons why someone wouldn't want perform on any given day, regardless of whether they think they can sing or not! It's almost cruel to persist in demanding someone sing when they have politely declined. It is perfectly reasonable for you to turn down a request to sing. Don't let anyone bully you about it. As has been said before, don't exclude yourself from sessions for fear of being asked to sing. You don't have to. When you feel comfortable being in the midst of singers, then start thinking about if you might like to sing along. Go for chorus songs and (as has been said before) try to stick with the melody. It can be hard to figure out what you're listening to in some sessions as the choruses can be harmonised to within an inch of their lives! As for that person who made that spiteful comment so many years ago. Forget it. I know I can sing and I've had comments as bad. In fact I've had derogatory remarks and praises about the same performance! Any singing voice is an accident of birth, what you do with it is the hard work bit, but it is your choice! If you don't want to sing at any given time, don't. I'm with the majority of people on this thread in that I think there are very few people about that really can't sing. I would go with Megan on the workshop approach. There are often workshops designed for those who think they can't sing. It also means you will be treated in a sympathetic manner. A lot of singing is in the confidence to do it. And in your case, it seems that that confidence has been destroyed for you. Whatever you chose to do, you have my best wishes. ((((Skipy)))) Pen. |
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29 Aug 08 - 09:00 AM (#2425339) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Kampervan Skipy I totally agree with Lady P's posting above. Nobody should feel pressured to sing if they really don't want. I was just trying to say that maybe other people, having heard you when you were joining in choruses etc, feel that you have the sort of voice that they would like to hear more of. And maybe your voice is better than you think it is. But only do it when you're ready. But |
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29 Aug 08 - 09:11 AM (#2425346) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: SINSULL skipy, Keep in mind that what you may see as pressure is actually the host trying to make sure you are included. I do it to my guests because sometimes a person says No and then after a glass of wine and a round or two of songs, they are ready. Tom Hall does it at the Press Room. There is always one singer who will fill every gap if you don't step in and suggest that someone else may have a song. SINS |
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29 Aug 08 - 09:25 AM (#2425352) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: G-Force Hi Dave - excellent wind-up! You're much appreciated. |
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29 Aug 08 - 11:35 AM (#2425499) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: GUEST,Patmike Forty years ago my older brother turned to me in the middle of a song and said,"Please shut up. you do not have a note in your head." For the next ywenty years i never opened my mouth. But I did want to sing. So, I learnt a few funny songs and recitations. The recitations did not have to be in tune. The funny songs were such that people listened to the words and did not worry about the tune. After a while I gained confidence. I still would be poor at singing but have developed a style of my own. I still sing parodies etc. and , whether other people do or not, I enjoy myself. Good luck. If i can pass on any of these songs to you, i would be pleased to do so. |
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29 Aug 08 - 12:12 PM (#2425543) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Jayto Skipy man just believe in yourself and your song man.If you want it take it. If you do it out of sheer desire and love and throw out any fear that others may not enjoy it you will do it. You may not be the best or the prettiest singer but you'll have feeling and heart. I prefer conviction over perfection. Select a song that you relate to I mean one that grabs you soul and squeezes it until it gasps for air. I know you have one in mind a song that hits you like a ball bat everytime you hear it. Start singing it with the attempt to let that feeling out that you have when you hear it. Dont worry about do I sing good or are people going to like this. Just let out the emotion that you have in you the emotion that the song fills your soul with. If you can convey how the song affects you to others man you are doing it. Sing like the words are irrevlevant and your communication is strictly emotional. If you can show people how you feel about the song then they will feel it as well. In my opinion man that is where it is at. That is what I love instead of a perfect singing voice. |
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29 Aug 08 - 01:11 PM (#2425609) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Jim Carroll Skipy; I'm a bit disturbed about the advice that you should just get up and sing and not worry too much of how it comes out (that's how I read it anyway). Only sing when you are ready to, and when you have done enough work on the song for it not to fall apart in your mouth. Two reasons: 1. If a song is worth singing, it's worth putting the work in beforehand. 2. If you make a hames of it first time round, it will be twice as difficult for you to get up the second time round. MacColl summed it up perfectly for me in an interview we did with him in the early 80s. "Now you might say that working and training to develop your voice to sing Nine Maidens A-milking Did Go or Lord Randall is calculated to destroy your original joy in singing, at least that's the argument that's put to me from time to time, or has been put to me from time to time by singers who should know better. The better you can do a thing the more you enjoy it. Anybody who's ever tried to sing and got up in front of an audience and made a bloody mess of it knows that you're not enjoying it when you're making a balls of it, but you are enjoying it when it's working, when all the things you want to happen are happening. And that can happen without training, sure it can, but it's hit or miss. If you're training it can happen more, that's the difference. It can't happen every time, not with anybody, although your training can stand you in good stead, it's something to fall back on, a technique, you know. It's something that will at least make sure that you're not absolutely diabolical The objective, really for the singer is to create a situation where when he starts to sing he's no longer worried about technique, he's done all that, and he can give the whole of his or her attention to the song itself she can give her or he can give his whole attention to the sheer act of enjoying the song." Says it all for me. Jim Carroll |
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29 Aug 08 - 01:23 PM (#2425615) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: maeve I suspect that skipy will take time to consider the suggestions and advice here, choose the suggestions that seem possible for him, and perhaps discuss it with trusted friends before deciding on the right place for him to start. Those of us who have tried to help don't know exactly which parts of our posts meet the need. As long as skipy finds his starting place and understands that we want him to succeed in his goal, the thread will serve its purpose. And think of all the other people who may come across this thread and find encouragement, hope, and a wide array of practical help. Lift your voice and sing. |
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29 Aug 08 - 01:42 PM (#2425645) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: kendall Sinsull, I am sorry you have that problem. I've told you before that you have exactly the right voice for the songs you do. Remember, I was raised on the same type of material. |
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29 Aug 08 - 01:42 PM (#2425647) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: John J I remember the first time I sang in public - I was scared shitless. It was 1976 and the unfortunate audience were at a folk club in Newport Pagnell, about 150 miles away from where I live. Nobody knew me, I was a complete stranger. If I cocked up at least I wouldn't see any of the audience ever again. I sang 'Rawtenstall Annual Fair' - a pleasantly bawdy, entertaining song. Although I didn't think I performed at all well I received very warm applause. Whether the audience realised I was nervous, I don't know. After that applause I didn't stop singing along (VERY loudly!) to all the choruses. Since then I've not shut up. The last three Sdimouth Festivals has seen my sat in the Anchor Middle Bar at every session, singing at any opportunity. I now describe my singing as being 'shouting, sort of in tune'. I'm off to the Wail in Dorset this weekend - they won't shut me up either! Once you've sung in public for the first time you'll have a huge confidence boost and I'm sure like me, you'll never shut up singing! I don't know where you live, but if you're around South Manchester at any time then please give me a shout. Best wishes, John |
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29 Aug 08 - 02:58 PM (#2425714) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: skipy WOW! So much backing, advice & solid support. This is what I am going to do about it, tommorrow at a festival near by I WILL sing! What have I got to lose? - not a lot! What have I got to gain - everything! It would take hours to comment on all your posts, so of course I won't except for 1! G-force you got it so, so wrong, I AM telling the truth! Thank you all so much, I WILL do it & I WILL |
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29 Aug 08 - 02:59 PM (#2425717) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: skipy (caught the wrong button) report back. Skipy |
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29 Aug 08 - 03:28 PM (#2425737) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Bert There are very few people who can't sing even with practice. Most of the problems people have is getting up there the first time. So here's an exercise for you. Learn The Barley Mow. It is more of a chant than a song and it always impresses an audience. |
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30 Aug 08 - 04:58 AM (#2426138) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: migginz I joined a local singing workshop and its done wonders for me. Mind you I'm lucky enough to have Ryburn 3 Step on my doorstep. I've also been on a few singing weekends with Lakeland Voice. Both of which have been really helpful, encouraging and inclusive. I found them both online Being in a morris team and having a few beers before singing also helps in my opinion |
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30 Aug 08 - 08:11 AM (#2426188) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Skipy, so many people here have given you such wonderful advice, that all I can say is, in response to your last post: GOOD FOR YOU!! I could feel the longing from here. I can hardly wait to see how you felt when you report back! |
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30 Aug 08 - 09:11 AM (#2426212) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: vectis Skipy There is nothing wrong with your voice it is very pleasant to listen to. The cow that told you you couldn't sing is just that.... A cow. She has the problem so don't make it your problem. Sing in the choruses to start off with and get your confidence back again. When YOU are ready try a solo amongst friends who are supportive and friendly. Find what is called a "natural voice coach" they won't teach you an operatic style but will help you to maximise your own god given voice and with this will come confidence. Confidence makes most people better singers. I was told to "shut up and mime" when I was in a school play at 5 and I didn't sing until I was in further education and totally desparate to sing the marvellous songs I had discovered through folk. I was probably rubbish at first but improved with practice and am now fairly satisfied with what I have (voice wise) but still strive to improve all the time. You never really get over a hurtful comment like that but you can overcome it in time. Love Mary |
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30 Aug 08 - 09:14 AM (#2426213) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Maryrrf Coming in late to the thread, and a lot of good advice has already been given but I will just reiterate - 1) Practice a few pieces till you know them cold. You need to really be confident that you will recall all the words even when under pressure 2) Force yourself to sing at the next opportunity, even though you're nervous. One train of thought that helped me to overcome nerves was to ask myself "What really will happen if I make a mistake, or if I don't go over well". The answer - "Nothing". Although a mistake may loom big in your mind it will be quickly forgotten by the audience. Often they don't even realize you've made a mistake if you can catch yourself quickly and go on singing. Even if you really mess up - it's just a blip on the radar screen. They'll forget about it after the next couple of singers. At the most, they might think fleetingly that you're having a bad day. After messing up numerous times in front of people, and realizing that nothing happens and nobody remembered it except for me, I don't get nervous any more about singing in public. Oh and as for somebody criticising you or telling you you can't sing - I wasn't allowed to join the choir in fourth grade because I 'couldn't sing' - but I went on sing professionally in my later years and still get gigs! |
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30 Aug 08 - 10:03 AM (#2426236) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Alice Adding to what I posted earlier, it is helpful in the beginning to record yourself singing so you can hear yourself objectively and work on any weaknesses. Sing every day in your full range - up and down scales from the lowest notes you can reach to the highest. Don't push, learn to float the sound on the cushion of air. Pushing or belting strains the vocal cords, which will only bring trouble eventually. |
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30 Aug 08 - 03:49 PM (#2426422) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: skipy Firstly, please don't call the lady in question a "cow" for she truly is not. You are ALL out there gunning for me to get this right, with your help I WILL manage this. I went to a festival today and went straight to the normal sing venue, but it was empty, not a soul at all! So the next move was to buy a prog. & go to the new sing venue, when I got there I found man who was running it sitting outside with 2 non singers, no one else had turned up, however I did go to both venues with words & with the determination to sing, had there been a sing I WOULD have sung for sure. The rest of the afternoon was spent watching my 16 year old morris dancing, when we got back to the car we found that a sing / session had started in the first pub! Sadly we where on a very tight time schedule (That means late) so we had to dash. Next chance is a folk club some distance from here on Wed. night. Thanks again everyone Skipy |
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30 Aug 08 - 05:44 PM (#2426488) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: maeve Whenever you begin, skipy, we'll be happy for you. Keep us posted, please. maeve |
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30 Aug 08 - 06:23 PM (#2426507) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Polly Squeezebox Hi Skipy, Now, unlike most of the above, I HAVE heard you sing - and would never have guessed that you were so nervous about it. You can certainly hold a tune, you can certainly remember the words, and you most certainly gave pleasure to the people you were singing to. I - like you - gained the impression at an early age that my singing was deficient in some way - I was an exceptinal dancer when I was younger, and in later years hid behind the squeesebox! Like you I always longed to be able to sing and put across the message of a 'special' song. Going regularly to a friendly folk club helped me - far easier to stand up and sing in front of a group of people that met weekly than in front of the 'experts' at festivals. I've missed going regularly to folk clubs over the past few months and have found that it has really affected my ability to sing at festivals I have attended this summer. Yes, I'm still nervous about singing - but hey - learn to manage the adrenatine and it will work for you, and there is no legal or illegal drug which can substitue for the joy of leading a roomful of singers. Do take up Cats offer - I'll look forward to sharing the joy of the Fox & Hounds weekend with you next year. I always think that there is something about singing together with people which is very like sharing a meal with them - brings everybody closer somehow. Stick with it, it's not too late, the rewards are tremendous and rememeber - I've heard you sing - YOU CAN - keep with it and enjoy sharing it with others. Love, light and laughter, Polly. |
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30 Aug 08 - 06:35 PM (#2426513) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: skipy Thanks Polly, I must know you but not by your cat name! I do know that you go to Lechlade but that is about all. I AM up for this, singing is what I want to do, I've set up & cleared down more than my share of venues, I want to be in one now & again, & it is coming my way. I still cannot believe the ammount of support I have had over the past couple of days from the cat, I saw myself as "the obnoxious little non singing fuckwit who wants to spoil everbodies fun by smoking". It appears that I am wrong. A large helping of humble pie please with a pint of fine ale! Skipy |
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30 Aug 08 - 11:18 PM (#2426596) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Sandy Mc Lean Skipy, do you play an instrument to accompany yourself or do you rely on others or do you sing unaccompanied? Whatever the case the trick to singing on key has much to do with choosing the right key for the song for your voice. I have limited vocal range so the key that I choose is critical. I do play guitar well enough to accompany myself and with my trusty capo can quickly find the right key. I am often reluctant to have others play along without a bit of rehersal because they can often mess me up even though they are better musicians than myself. Always know what key is best for the song you are going to sing and don't let others choose it for you. As Kendall suggested earlier, practice with a recording device before performing in public. Also choose a song that you know well and that you are comfortable with and practice, practice, practice. You can do it! |
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31 Aug 08 - 12:00 AM (#2426602) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: katlaughing Good for you, skipy!! You are willing, you went, and you will go again! This is what Mudcat is all about...support and encouragement! I look forward to hearing how good it felt to sing next time you get a chance. All the best, kat |
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31 Aug 08 - 12:35 AM (#2426607) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Ebbie Byron McGillvary (sp?) is a voice/singing teacher who travels a circuit from Texas to Alaska and back. He pointed out that if you do not speak in a monotone you already know how to hit the notes. Just about everybody modulates speech. Start with that knowledge, record yourself on a couple of songs and recitations, alone and with others and I'll bet that you will be thrilled. And as others above have implied, on occasions that you're feeling 'puny' and unsure of yourself just say, Not tonight, I'm in the mood to listen tonight. And later in the evening you may find yourself saying, You know, there is this one song I'd like to sing tonight... |
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31 Aug 08 - 03:27 PM (#2426973) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Jane of 'ull Skipy, I feel for you. I am often told I can sing but have never liked the sound of my voice. I previously attributed this to years of low self esteem, but having conquered my self -loathing episodes (though its taken 37 years!) I am quite a confident person now - but I still don't like my voice or think that I can sing! I had a bitchy singing teacher who only liked big 'bluesy mama' voices. my voice is quite sweet and reedy and she made me doubt my ability. But I used to sing in folk clubs about 13 years ago, and people liked it. I also enrolled on a performing arts course and got distinction grades for my singing. My advice to you is that everyone does have different tastes in singing voices - think of people like Dylan or Bjork, who always divide listeners into two camps (they're always either 'brilliant' or 'rubbish'!) you will never please everyone. So I would choose a venue where you're not known, but take with you a supportive friend, relax, breathe deeply and just GO FOR IT. I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised. Most people love to hear the human voice, no matter how many instrumentalists play at the session..it's primeval, its natural, and above all it's what makes each human being unique. Good luck Skipy - I'm with ya all the way!! x |
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31 Aug 08 - 05:18 PM (#2427053) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: skipy The support piles in & I thank you all so much. I will do this not just for me but for ALL of you who have been there to help, I just can't believe that so many have been there for me. Skipy |
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31 Aug 08 - 05:23 PM (#2427061) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Megan L :) Skipy as a Glaswegian might say "Ach son ye might be a glaikit wean but yewr oor glaikit wean" You can do it lad and we are aw ahint ye. Awra best frae Dauvitt and his Meg |
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31 Aug 08 - 06:54 PM (#2427138) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Sandra in Sydney YAH for heading to 2 venues, well done, skipy. Keep up the good work. I was at a Folk conference on the weekend which started with a session & as always several very experienced singers forgot words in songs they knew well. One has recently won a prestigious award for singing & just went la la la to the tune till she picked up the words. The other did the usual gaze-ceiling-wards-at-the-black-cloud that inhabits all session rooms. I've also seen songwriters forget words in their own songs. And naturally no-one condemned them, the word-swallowing black cloud in the Glengarry was famous over the 15-20 years the session endured, & equally naturally it followed the singers on their quest to find another venue. It will always be there. sandra |
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31 Aug 08 - 07:18 PM (#2427159) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Herga Kitty Skipy - try the Wareham Wail next year, instead of the Bunkfest! Or come to our singaround at Banbury next month. Kitty |
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31 Aug 08 - 08:22 PM (#2427196) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: maire-aine I'm certainly no great singer, but some people like what they hear. Some suggestions: Find a song that you love so much that you want to sing it for everyone. Learn the words, and talk through it in your normal speaking voice. Then start to sing it quietly until you get comfortable with it. Then you can start to project. And remember this advice and keep singing. |
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31 Aug 08 - 08:37 PM (#2427201) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Bobert Litta good advice here... If there is a music camp within a couple three hundred miles of you sign up... There will be others who just need a little proding andf help... A real good teacher is Gaye Adegbalola of the blues group Sapphire... She does a one week vocals workshop at Elkins, WV evey summer... I'm sure there are other such music camps where you will be with alot of folks, like you, who just need some encouragement and a few pointers... I am a firm believer that just about everyone can sing if they just allow themselves to try... Good luck... B~ |
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31 Aug 08 - 11:26 PM (#2427307) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Gurney Lonely up there all by yourself, isn't it, Skipy! Use a guitar pitch-pipe to get you started in a good key, if you don't use an instrument. Sing a song that you really believe in. Practise at the volume you will use on-stage. This is important. On-stage you are louder, and need a different key. You don't have to have a good voice to put on a good show. Did Johnny Cash have a good voice? How about Bob Dylan, or Willy Nelson? I've paid good money for their records, and I'd pay it to see their shows if they were local. |
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31 Aug 08 - 11:44 PM (#2427315) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Jayto I still think that you have to believe in yourself skipy and let it rip. Of course you need to practice and know the song. I still hold my position that you should belt it like you feel it. I know I am not a great singer but I really don't aspire to be a great singer all I want to do is let my feelings out. If a singer can release their feelings in a way the crowd can relate then they have accomplished their goal in my opinion. I like emotion and that is what singing and music is about. If there is no emotion it is just noise. I know others are going to disagree with me but that is cool. I like passion in belief and if they want to tell me I;m wrong that's fine. I am stirring emotion lol Art is emotion music is emotion if it doesn't stir emotion it is nothing. I think you need to believe in yourself and let it out. You are a confident person. I know by talking to you in the chat room. Let it rip man. |
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01 Sep 08 - 03:42 AM (#2427404) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: GUEST,Shimrod For God's sake make sure you learn the words - rather than reading them off a piece of paper. Apart from that, just do it! |
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01 Sep 08 - 04:28 AM (#2427433) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Penny S. Not a lot to add to what other people have said. My best friend was told he couldn't sing when at school, and won't sing carols in public - but actually has a perfectly acceptable middle range voice and can hold a tune. The number of people who have been silenced by thoughtless teachers must be immense. When I was at college, we were taught that everyone could sing, it being part of the human toolkit. some people needed more help than others. Our lecturer had been taught herself by Imogen Holst, who held to the same belief. Just think what would happen if teachers said things like "you can't read" (happened to me, actually), "you can't do maths" (people do get that idea, don't they?). No-one seems to think of special needs in singing (or PE), do they? You can sing. Someone has suggested singing in the car. If you get CDs or tapes with the songs you want to sing, you can sing along while driving. Penny |
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01 Sep 08 - 07:57 AM (#2427544) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Sandy Mc Lean Penny S said: " The number of people who have been silenced by thoughtless teachers must be immense." I think that happens because the students are put in a choir format. As I earlier stated I don't have a lot of range and because of this my choir ability is limited. Now if it was me who chose the key I could have done much better. Also a student may have more interest if they are singing a song that they like rather than one picked by the teacher. A good teacher would work more with the individual instead of forcing them into a mold but that requires effort. |
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01 Sep 08 - 07:59 AM (#2427547) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Megan L Shimrod many people for various reasons cannot hold words in their memory there is nothing wrong with using the words as long as you make a good effort at a song |
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01 Sep 08 - 05:47 PM (#2428041) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: skipy Hells teeth! This getting SO out of control! SO many people on my side, helping me, so many stangers & so many friends! Next step (subject to work) is to go to a folk club on Wednesday eve. & do 1 (maybe 2!) then report back to you guys! The next bit of the plan is even worse:- When I got "picked" to an instructor at RAF Halton I fought it tooth & nail, but was bound to lose! So they sent me on am intensive teaching course, during the course they made me "do" a lesson for 1/2 hour approx. whilst they videoed it, when it was played back I thought "that was not too bad at all, infact it was pretty good" so I am going to risk doing simmillar & record a few track & them listen to them, a risk I know but with you guys behind me I may pull this off (no puns please). Thanks again for being out there for me, the angst is dropping like a stone on a daily basis! Bring it on! Skipy |
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01 Sep 08 - 05:58 PM (#2428050) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: GUEST,Shimrod " ... many people for various reasons cannot hold words in their memory there is nothing wrong with using the words as long as you make a good effort at a song" Hmmm. I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with that, Megan L. I suspect that many people who claim not to be able to memorise the words are a bit like many people who claim that they can't sing - they've never really tried. Good singing is not particularly easy - it takes effort and practice, practice, practice. I've been to far too many sessions recently where it is quite obvious that certain people are putting minimum effort into their performances - and it shows! When I see someone reading the words off a piece of paper my immediate assumption is that they are too bone-idle to learn them. If it ever turns out that someone about whom I have made such an assumption has a genuine memory defect (and can show me a doctor's note to that effect) I will make an unreserved apology! |
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02 Sep 08 - 04:07 AM (#2428433) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Penny S. I'm in two minds over the reading. There are songs I know by heart, but I want to extend my repertoire, to have some variation in what I sing, and it takes time to be absolutely confident, especially with new coinage. So I've been using my PDA as a prompt. But I had heard other people singing perfectly well from their files before I started doing it. And I do a mixture. I intend to use the prompt less as I go on. Penny |
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02 Sep 08 - 06:04 AM (#2428477) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: GUEST,Vince Fascinating thread, as a non-singer myself, I received a great compliment at Shrewsbury FF by being told (by a very good Singer/Musician friend) that I will never have a great voice, but that I was a great singer (ie performer). I only sing a couple of songs that I know back to front, but it's that knowledge and my will to get the songs across that comes through. You will never find a hostile session audience (unless you unleash a 107-verse mining disaster song on them :) ) as all sessions (esp at festivals) have such a range of abilities. I only sing songs other people don't know (because I don't know the standard chorus songs myself) and I do panic if people start to join in as a musical accompaniment, but I concentrate on my perfomance of the song and let them worry about the rest. Remember, it's the song you're trying to get across, and if you can convey the feeling and meaning of the song, well, in my book that's more than half way there, getting the bugger in tune, that's another thing. Folks have already mentioned Dylan and Björk in this thread, I'd like to mention Leonard Cohen and Billy Bragg (early stuff in both cases) for where it's the song that counts. And in their words: "I was born with the gift of a golden voice" (LC: Tower of Song), and "There ain't nobody that can sing like me" (BB/Woody Guthrie: Way Over Yonder In a Minor Key) Vince |
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02 Sep 08 - 08:02 PM (#2429354) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Rowan Just think what would happen if teachers said things like "you can't read" (happened to me, actually), "you can't do maths" (people do get that idea, don't they?). No-one seems to think of special needs in singing (or PE), do they? The "or PE") bit in Penny's post got me reminded about a situation I experienced many years ago. I ran school camps full time and this particular camp concentrated on dealing with group dynamics and novel approaches to learning, rather than the usual run of PE-based Outdoor Ed. Because of our approach we received a grant to have some "Mildly-" and "Moderately retarded" (the "official" definitions, not mine) adolescents and young adults for a week in summer, followed by a week the following summer. Most had some motor disability which impeded their progress around the place (we were in an Oz bush setting) but we got up to all sorts of mischief, even to the extent of towing one kid in a wheelchair behind the LandRover up a stretch of goat track. Great fun. We couldn't take them to our usual swim location as the river was flowing and too deep for this lot, so we took them to a secluded pool in a creek. Trouble was, the nice 'beach' for this pool was at the far end from the 4WD access track (hence the towing bit) and the only way to get to the beach was to traverse about 100m of rounded and jumbled boulders ranging from pebbles to about 1m diameter. After considerable thought, we decided to have a go. It was agonising, watching these disabled people gritting their teeth, knuckling down to doing it and helping each other (with our help as well, of course); it took them more than 3/4 of an hour just to traverse this 100m. But once they were in the water, they were like fish! Every one of them had been in a serious hydrotherapy program for yonks and the water was almost their native element. The return trip was only marginally quicker. The following summer we made sure we incorporated another visit to this pool in the program; the whole lot of them insisted on it. What I found fascinating was the fact that, although there was no appreciable improvement in their motor skills around the camp itself, when it came to traversing this boulder field to get to the beach (and thus into the water), they were across it in about ten minutes! It struck me that nobody had bothered, in their motor skills program, to teach them how to walk. All the physio had been directed through hydrotherapy so they were terrific in the water, but it was assumed they would always be handicapped 'on land' so only minimal concentration was put into that part of their program. At Steiglitz, they wanted into the pool so badly that they were prepared to overcome a formidable barrier and had learned some significant motor skills on the way. This hadn't been noticed, let alone capitalised upon during the year, until after the repeat visit. At this time it was certainly noticed and their carers changed their physio routines after that. They also changed their approach in the rest of the institution, as well. For me, it reinforced my view that it's best to start with an assumption that "anything is achievable", it's just a matter of working at it. Go, skip! Cheers, Rowan |
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02 Sep 08 - 08:15 PM (#2429370) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: GUEST,Anon Great Story Rowan . It just goes to show , doesnt it ? I know skipy and I have heard him sing in the distant past , hence the anonimity - No Names , no Pack Drill - There are better singers , but there are a damn sight worse . Go For It . |
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03 Sep 08 - 08:14 AM (#2429713) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler I think that we have established, from remarks made by people that know you, that there is nothing wrong with your vocal abilities. It's just getting the mind convinced that you can do it. :) I started performing as a deliberate attempt to become a more extrovert person. I was a very quiet type and my first wife had died leaving me with a big gap in my life, but we had been regulars in the audience a sevaral folk clubs in our area. I knew that I had a better voice than some of the "residents" but I would never have considered getting up to sing. No problem with the chorus though. So, I decided that I was in a vunerable condition as an introvert with my then current state of affairs and decided to change. I reasoned that if I could play an instrument as well then at least I could hide behind it to some extent, so bought my first concertina and after about four months was ready to let sombody hear me. I wanted to throw myself in at the deep end so to speak, so I picked a week when I could go to three folk clubs in succession. I set off for the first club. I could not sing and play at the same time but the usual thing was to do two or three numbers in a floor spot so the plan was to sing one and play one then either sing or play for the third item depending on the nerves. There was a stool up at the front that I could rest the concertina on and this was a great help. I leant against the stool to try and hide the fact that my knees were quaking. (I'd always thought that this was a literary invention but now I know it's real.) I was introduced and launched into the first song and after a short while it was easy! Composed myself further as I played my tune then on with another song. At the other folk clubs in that week I once again started out nervous but found that I had nothing to worry about in fact, except that I would need to learn more songs for the next week! I'm fairly sure that managing to repeat the experience several times in a short period helped in the long run so once you've got up and done it - do it again. |
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03 Sep 08 - 05:48 PM (#2430276) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: skipy I DID IT, I DID IT, I DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just got back from the local folk club where I sang a song! 32 poeple in there, only 5 that I knew from the old days! Drove myself there, so only 1 weak shandy as fuel. Just did the one as time allowed. It was not brilliant but IT WAS GOOD ENOUGH! Even got asked to come back by the lady who now runs the club! I did it for me! but I did it also for you guys who so kindly put your faith in me & where there to prop me up, I can't thank you enough, all of you. A few more hurdles to go & a lot of missed singing to catch up on. Thanks again! Skipy (singer!) |
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03 Sep 08 - 05:50 PM (#2430278) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: curmudgeon So please share the details. What did you sing? Chorus? Anyone join in? |
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03 Sep 08 - 05:51 PM (#2430280) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: skipy Kipling:- Minesweepers, has a refain & got joiner iners! Skipy |
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03 Sep 08 - 05:52 PM (#2430282) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Megan L WELL DONE lad you may never know how many folk your efforts have helped. I hope you enjoyed it and look forward to hearing of further adventures. AWRA BEST frae Dauvitt and his Meg |
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03 Sep 08 - 07:33 PM (#2430356) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: maeve Hoopla! Congratulations from me as well, skipy. Enjoy the catching-up! maeve |
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03 Sep 08 - 07:53 PM (#2430370) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Suegorgeous Well done Skippy, that's fantastic! I'm really pleased for you. |
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03 Sep 08 - 08:05 PM (#2430379) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Alice Yay! Yay! Yay!!! It's addictive, isn't it, skipy! Bet you can't wait to do it again!! Congratulations, singer! Alice |
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03 Sep 08 - 08:05 PM (#2430380) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Bobert Belive me, 32 people is harder than 1000, Skipy... Now you are a veteran and you don't gotta be all worried from here out... Congrates, you've made it!!! And I'm proud of ya... Fir real... B~ |
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03 Sep 08 - 08:20 PM (#2430398) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Sandra in Sydney YAH!! sandra (wiping tears away) |
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03 Sep 08 - 08:40 PM (#2430414) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: skipy Thanks to all above, you guy are outstanding & there when I needed you, I can't thank you enough. Skipy |
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03 Sep 08 - 08:44 PM (#2430417) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Rowan Go skipy!!!!!!!!!!!! the singer!!!!!!!! Cheers, Rowan |
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03 Sep 08 - 09:31 PM (#2430432) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Leadfingers About time you got in to singing again ! |
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03 Sep 08 - 09:48 PM (#2430445) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Leadfingers I Cant Resist the temptation !! |
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03 Sep 08 - 09:48 PM (#2430446) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Leadfingers 100 |
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03 Sep 08 - 10:35 PM (#2430464) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Beer skippy, sorry for the late arrival. I am a singer (to a degree) and lost my voice for about a year. Starting to get it back but I know it will never be where it was before. It hurts a lot. But for you whom I don't know and have no idea how you sound..... Sing. sing for yourself first. then sing for a few, then sing for others. Senior homes are a great place to start as well. they love music. Just fucking do it. When I can't play I'll sing, When I can't sing I'll whistle. When the time comes I can whistle no more, I'll sit my self down and I'll listen. |
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04 Sep 08 - 03:00 PM (#2431107) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: BB Brilliant, Dave. There'll be no stopping you now - I hope! Barbara |
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04 Sep 08 - 03:13 PM (#2431132) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: katlaughing Whoo-Hoo, skipy!!! Good for you!!! |
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04 Sep 08 - 05:32 PM (#2431291) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Polly Squeezebox There you go see. It's Swindon Club tomorrow night which is not far from you so, - go do it again! Sorry I can't be there to support you, as I shall be on my way to France. However, many folk at Swindon will be very supportive of your long overdue VOCAL participation at folk events. Polly |
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04 Sep 08 - 06:39 PM (#2431347) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: GUEST,Heather P AWESOME!!! Three cheers from the shores of the northern Pacific! You and everyone on the thread have inspired me, Skipy; I just got back from a Faire where I had my first-ever three gigs *not* singing soprano in chorus... got a healthy serving of advice from other musicians (erm, I love trad - starting with very *old* trad - and sea shanties, and whoever heard of singing those soprano? I do it mostly in chest voice, which is nearly baritone at its low end and worries some musicians), but there was also a lot of support, offers to play together and such -- KEEP GOING, SKIPY! I'll be thinking of you! Oh, I LOVE THIS SO MUCH, and I know you do, too! YES!!! Heather P in Bremerton |
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05 Sep 08 - 03:57 AM (#2431574) Subject: RE: Help please, I want to sing From: Escamillo My experience in singing: - At folk ensambles at age of 14-20 - With friends at age 14-30 - At 30 listened to Opera singers, then shut up for almost 20 years - At the parent´s choir in my children´s school - Attended serious classes for 3 years - Since 1998: at the main Argentina Opera House (Colon Theatre, in the choir) and in many small stages as soloist, doing old jazz, spirituals, traditionals, canzonetta, ... Those years of silence ended up when I took the decision of testing my voice with a classical teacher. I can´t tell if you can sing or not, probably yes, but PLEASE don´t be afraid of classical teachers. They will not force you to sing in a classical style, they will help you FIND your voice and make good use of it, regardless the kind of songs you choose. For example, 99% of people who begin to sing, try their voices in a very low pitch (deep basses) and think that their voices are very limited. Most probably, when you take classes, you will find that the best pitch for you is much higher. You can´t do this without the help of a teacher. Don´t get scared, go to a classical teacher who accepts beginners. Best wishes / Andrés (in Buenos Aires) |