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03 Sep 08 - 12:26 AM (#2429502) Subject: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Little Hawk This outfit has been calling us for about 2 years trying to get us to let them demo their gutter guards, in hopes that we will buy some. Their very persistence makes me highly suspicious that they are selling an outrageously overpriced product that I probably don't really need and that may not work very well anyway. Has anyone had experience with these things? They supposedly keep your gutters from getting clogged up with leaves and other debris. They are a metal thingie that is anchored under the shingles and extends out to mostly cover the tops of the gutters, but still will allow water to flow into them through a narrow aperture. |
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03 Sep 08 - 01:25 AM (#2429528) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Gurney Not familiar with that product, LH, but if A: you have an adjacent tree which is filling up your gutter in Autumn B: the tree has Oak-like lobed leaves c: the product is easily removable if and when the gutter does need cleaning D: your house is high or has difficult gutter access it may be an asset. Another consideration. In certain Winter conditions you can get an ice dam where ice trapped by the gutter backs up onto the shingles and in Spring the melt from the top penetrates the roof, being unable to get into the gutter. I've read about this, it happens in cold parts like yours. Never myself lived anywhere shingles are common, and houses didn't have eaves. There are cheaper ways of keeping leaves out of the gutter. Plastic mesh, mostly. |
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03 Sep 08 - 01:27 AM (#2429531) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Peace "Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice?" You might try the police from Minnesota. |
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03 Sep 08 - 07:30 AM (#2429686) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: GUEST,Barry lost his cookie Personnally I can't stand gutters. They cause ice dams in cold climates, they trap moisture against the wood the brace against & rot it, the fasteners eventually weaken unless much care is taken durning the installation & allow at place for moisture to again cause rot, rodents love them. Unless the gutter is really strong (wooden, which has it's own down side) it's subject to wind & ice pulling it away from the structure. The only reason for a gutter in the beginning was to direct drinking water into a barrel, old customs die hard. Reasons for a gutter; if you've a precious garden or to direct water away from a foundation that leaks in water, or you want to collect water for another reason, like to drink or to water a garden in arid areas or to shed water from an entrance/exit so steps or such don't freeze up or become dangerous. Otherwise I'd pull the dam things down. Any building center sells a plastic mesh that works just as fine & is way cheaper & very, VERY easy to install,,,,,,,if you don't mind the height & can access it easy enough. Barry, that's a professional opinion |
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03 Sep 08 - 08:35 AM (#2429729) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Donuel I have the easy I/2 inch metal mesh that was nailed in place and works well preventing a clog in the water drain pipe that goes under a stretch of concrete, I should get some rain barrels for one particular side or pull down the gutter like Barry said. |
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03 Sep 08 - 08:56 AM (#2429744) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: artbrooks I have the kind that you stuff inside the downspout opening in the gutter, and they work well to keep the pine needles from clogging it up. I'd think that, if you have a heavy leaf fall, a complete gutter guard would result in a heavy layer of leaves on top of it, with the resulting reduction in water penetration to the gutter itself and ice buildup on/at the roof edge. Ice is never a problem here, and I try to forget my years living in snow and ice country.. |
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03 Sep 08 - 09:20 AM (#2429752) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: olddude Ice is a huge problem here near Buffalo New York. Most people I know that have them took them off for the ice jam problem mentioned above |
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03 Sep 08 - 10:54 AM (#2429838) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Bill D Sure! I went to a hardware store and bought these 3ft. long curved wire-mesh things that have a hinge! They keep the big stuff out, and if the gutters gradually get seeds & small leaves built up, I fold 'em up and scoop 'em out...and just take a garden hose and wash out the residue..(like shingle-particles that flake off.) I've used the LONG strips of aluminum mesh too, and they are ok, but the short, hinged ones are much easier! (I can even take pics and post 'em if you want) |
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03 Sep 08 - 01:28 PM (#2430010) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Little Hawk I'm familiar with the plastic mesh stuff that the hardware sells, and I used some of it once. It works reasonably well. I clean my gutters in the same way you describe, Bill, finishing off by washing them out with the garden hose. It's amazing how many shingle particles flake off in a year, isn't it? Ice damming is a big problem here every winter, so I'm beginning to think that maybe I should just take those gutters down and be done with it. There are several maple trees near the house and the gutters get full of maple keys in the spring and fallen leaves in the fall. I am presently cleaning them three times a year, using a ladder and a large spoon, and the hose. |
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03 Sep 08 - 03:04 PM (#2430112) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Greg B From personal experience... the plastic mesh simply filters the size of the debris so that what ends up clogging the gutter has much smaller particles than it otherwise would. But the gutter is just as clogged. The gutter guards that work are the ones that look like they won't. I had "Gutter Helmets" installed on my prior house, and they worked dandy. (In New Jersey, where we got some heavy downpours.) The reason they look like they won't work is that they are metal extrusions that cover the top of the gutter, then form a sort of "J," the apex of which reaches out over the edge of the gutter. Now you'd think what would happen is that the water would just be directed away from the gutter. Not, so, Mr. Newton. What does happen is that the water actually clings to the guard, makes a U-turn over the edge of the guard, and goes in the gutter. Debris, however, doesn't make the hair-pin turn, and ends up on the ground. Yes, it works. Yes, it works in a down-pour. The older ones, it's a bitch to get them off if you do have to clean the gutters, or do work. Some of the newer models or alternate brands which operate on the same principle have ways around this. So yeah, they work pretty much as advertised. At least the Gutter Helmets do. If I didn't live in a condo now, and had a house where I was responsible for cleaning the gutters, especially gutters more than ten feet up, I'd buy them again without hesitation. |
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03 Sep 08 - 05:11 PM (#2430238) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Sorcha I just get on a ladder and clean them out. Usually once a year is all they need. I use a garden trowel. |
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03 Sep 08 - 05:25 PM (#2430251) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Bill D I get Maple seeds in front, and just lots of leaves in back. I can do with cleaning every TWO years, but once a year in Spring is better. I never looked at Gutter Helmets...umm...wish I had before installing all these others. Of course, we don't get ice here as much, so I seldom have to fight that. |
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03 Sep 08 - 05:43 PM (#2430272) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Peace This will do away with all that. Drainage, leisure pool, a possible food source. DA DA! |
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03 Sep 08 - 06:39 PM (#2430308) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Bill D Hey...I could use one of those! My neighbors are getting tedious. hmmm...with or without alligators, that's the question. |
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03 Sep 08 - 06:46 PM (#2430314) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Peace That would actually be a great idea for five-million dollar condos. Central heating, cans all over the place, good big room for painting, composing, playing, etc. A full-time grounds keeper/cum moat maintainer. He could fish if he chose to. Stocked with trout. Away from the busy-ness of city life, and quiet. They would sell like hotcakes, but hotcakes would be cheaper. |
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04 Sep 08 - 12:36 AM (#2430542) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Little Hawk Well, the company rep was here today. He brought a demo sample of the gutter guards, and they are exactly the type you describe in your post, Greg B. However, it turns out that they will not fit the kind of gutters I have here which are apparently smaller than the typical metal gutters seen on most houses around here. So I would have to replace all the existing gutters to use those gutter guards, and I would end up spending, oh, at least $5,000 probably to do the whole job (gutters and gutter guards). So I'm not gonna do it. I am leaning more and more to the idea that I do not need gutters at all on this house, and I may remove them entirely. That would solve the ice dam problem in the winter, and would also relieve me of the job of cleaning gutters 3 times a year. |
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04 Sep 08 - 01:43 AM (#2430558) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Barry Finn You are probably 1" to short, doesn't that piss you off. You probably have a 5" gutter system instead of a 6" one. And they say size doesn't matter, that 1 extra inch makes a world of difference! While cleaning out your gutters don't forget the downspouts & drainpipes. If they get clogged & a freeze hit they cause a back up all the way to the gutters & the metal pipes will bust under the pressure. PVC doesn't look as nice but schedule 40 PVC (not the thin PVC) will hold up better than metal & won't dent either (but they will shatter if hit hard with a baseball bat when frozen). Barry |
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04 Sep 08 - 02:05 AM (#2430565) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Little Hawk Hey, man... That's the story of my life. Rejected by the Mounties. "One inch too short." Refused by the National Ballet. "One inch too short." Disqualified by the Olympic Long Jump competition committee. "One inch too short." Rejected by the local Gutter Guard company. "One inch too short." Rejected by Winona Ryder! "One inch too short." |
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04 Sep 08 - 06:26 AM (#2430652) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: gnu Ummm... I know I am gonna take flack yet again, but... Gutters do NOT cause ice dams. Ice dams are caused by improperly installed insulation and/or lack of insulation and/or lack of ice dam protection under the shingles. Gutters may be used to collect rain water. They may also be used to keep water off walkways and steps to help prevent people from slipping and falling. As well, they may also be used to direct water away from building foundations to help prevent basement leakage and to help preserve the foundation integrity. Gutters are good. Check out CMHC, LH.... I am sure there's info on the above. |
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04 Sep 08 - 06:51 AM (#2430663) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: gnu Oops... not enough tea yet this AM... "lack of insulation" should be "lack of ventilation". |
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04 Sep 08 - 01:18 PM (#2430984) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: kendall Gnu is right about the ice dam cause. I have a metal roof so snow builds up for a while, but eventually it comes sliding down with a crash. Scares the hell out of Seamus. It also took out the old gutters. |
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04 Sep 08 - 01:52 PM (#2431013) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Little Hawk What do you mean by "ice dam protection under the shingles"? |
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04 Sep 08 - 02:37 PM (#2431078) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: gnu ... under the shingles. As required by Part 9 of the Canuck Building code (with exceptions, but I ALWAYS spec it).... asphaltic felt or the really expensive blue stuff known by a few names (used to be able to use 6 mil poly too), installed properly, a min of 36" up the roof from the edge of the eave and to a point at least 12" beyond the vertical plane of the interior of the exterior wall. This is NOT a sbstitute for proper insulation and ventilation. It is a "backup". And some contractors just don't bother, on brand new houses. Say... I still have 30 "Home Reference Books" by Carson-Dunlop from my old inspection company. I'll check with my accountant to see if I can sell them without getting into trouble with Revenscrue Canada. They retail for close to $100 and they are the best reference book for owning or buying a home that I have ever see. Check out www.carsondunlop.com... say... I'll bet they have a blurb on ice dams. LH... get my PM? |
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04 Sep 08 - 02:41 PM (#2431080) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: gnu YUP! |
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04 Sep 08 - 02:50 PM (#2431095) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Little Hawk Yeah, gnu, I got your PM. I'm gonna take some time before making any decision. This info on ice damming is good. Thanks! I can see that this problem, like the Winona Ryder one, is going to require some patience and some very careful strategic planning in order to bring it to a positive resolution... |
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04 Sep 08 - 02:59 PM (#2431104) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: gnu Well... seems simple to me. Keep the gutters and get Winnie to clean them. Problem solved. Hmmmm... depends on the cost/benefit ratio of "maintenance" I suppose. |
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04 Sep 08 - 03:01 PM (#2431109) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Little Hawk Ha! ;-) I don't think Winona does that kind of work these days. But maybe. Her friends call her "Nonie". |
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04 Sep 08 - 03:03 PM (#2431117) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Stilly River Sage Reading the name of this thread a punchline from a song occurs to me: And the pig got up and slowly walked away. |
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04 Sep 08 - 03:05 PM (#2431120) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: gnu Nonie? Hmmmm... maybe you should think twice about a lass that don't do gutters, or, by the sound of her nickname, anyone else. |
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04 Sep 08 - 03:06 PM (#2431123) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: gnu Tho, maybe you could get her to get you some rain gutter "guards" at a lower price... five finger discount? |
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04 Sep 08 - 03:07 PM (#2431124) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Little Hawk Replace it with this line and it sound even better: "And wi' that...the pig got up and walked away!" Sing the line with a measure of jaundiced but impotent outrage....like it's the final adding of insult to injury to the wretched soul lying in the gutter. |
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04 Sep 08 - 03:33 PM (#2431156) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: gnu You see the price of Asphalt shigles lately? Last year, I was paying $18. Over $30 now! I suppose, made with oil and transported with oil... and them sniper rifles cost a lot to reload. |
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04 Sep 08 - 08:37 PM (#2431420) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Greg B My favorite ice-dam story: Skiing, President's Day/Valentine's weekend at Mt. Tremblant, Quebec. Annual pilgrimage to St. J.C. Killy and St. J. Frost. Post ski, walking down the street in front of L'Hotel du Mont Tremblant, the sign reads: "Attention! Chute du Neige!" Lucky me, I was walking up the sidewalk when said event occurred. Just outside the Pub du L'Hotel du Mt. Tremblant. I thought it would never end. The whole roof of the place cut loose on me. It was a bit warm (only a few degrees below zero, Fahrenheit) so I had my hood down. Hoods serve as quite a good funnel. I just stood there and took it, looking sadly into the window of the the pub, as the snow-devil converted me from human being to 'Frosty the Snowman' in a few seconds. Aye, but I'm a canny lad. You see, we were domiciled in said hostelry, and that pub was our home from home, and for the laugh I gave the locals I didn't need to buy myself or my party any of our pints of the Labatt's Bleu served in a glass shaped like a cowboy boot for the rest of the weekend. Of course, I'm still digging snow out of my crack... |
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04 Sep 08 - 09:25 PM (#2431446) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Stilly River Sage Good story! |
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04 Sep 08 - 09:40 PM (#2431454) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Greg B Of course, I always kind of found the "Gutter Guard" name funny. Reminds me, sort of, of the South Street Seaport cops who used to watch a bunch of us reprobates, navigating our way from Radio Mexico back to the Wavertree to sleep it off after the Seaman's Church chantey sings. We'd shoot them a 2:30AM salute, they'd give us a wave, as we tottered our way towards the gang-plank. I think they envied us our "public drunken-ness," and were rather pleased that we chose to walk, stagger, or crawl, as opposed to attempting to drive following a quart of Margaritas or a gallon of Rolling Rock. "Glad you're here," we'd say. We were glad that they were there; their NYPD presence made sure that no local hooligans would take advantage of our inebriate state to relive us of our watches and wallets. Useful lot, coppers, from time to time. |
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04 Sep 08 - 10:56 PM (#2431502) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: Stilly River Sage I've been to those places, the Seaman's Institute and South Street Seaport. I used to work out at Ellis Island and took the train from Brooklyn to South Ferry or Whitehall St. Been a bit tipsy down there myself (we used to stop at the "Terminal Bar" (actual name was "Hall of Fame," but that never fit) under the Staten Island Ferry terminal after work some evenings.) The good old days. SRS |
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04 Sep 08 - 11:44 PM (#2431520) Subject: RE: BS: Gutter Guards? Anyone got advice? From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Stay out of the gutter as best you can. If you see a guard, you probably did something bad... bob |
