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10 Sep 08 - 08:03 PM (#2436849) Subject: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: SINSULL So...Shell and Chevron among others have been soliciting sexual favors from 15 - 20 members of the Dept of the Interior (READ: OIL) but it is OK according to Randall Luthi because "the public had not suffered financial losses as a result of the employees' behavior." And besides, MMS head Luthi said only "six or seven" employees named in the report still work for the department. It's an election year so the Democrats are not slow to respond: "Democrats used the report to accuse President Bush's administration of being too close to the oil industry. "The Bush administration put an 'America for Sale' sign on the White House lawn from day one and has been courting Big Oil ever since," Rep. Louise Slaughter, D-New York and chairwoman of the House Rules Committee, said in a written statement. "Democrats have been saying it for some time, but this proves it. This administration is literally in bed with Big Oil. Little did we know they were such a cheap date." Sen. Bill Nelson, a Florida Democrat, said the report should make Congress reconsider plans to expand offshore drilling. "The rest of the United States government doesn't need to jump in bed with" the oil industry, he said. Meantime, we, the American Public, are trying to figure out how we are going to pay for oil this winter. I am lucky enough to have some room on my credit cards. Others will go without or turn to charity. Some will get by just fine. OK. But will any of these criminals ever be forced to pay a just amount for their crimes? Will the companies involved be banned from government contracts? I hate them all. The complete article is here: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/10/oiil.scandal/index.html |
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10 Sep 08 - 08:07 PM (#2436855) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Stilly River Sage I do believe this is the tip of a very large iceberg. The tiniest tip. SRS |
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10 Sep 08 - 08:08 PM (#2436857) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: SINSULL So have you seen the Chevron executive involved, SSR? |
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10 Sep 08 - 08:22 PM (#2436874) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Stilly River Sage I've just heard about it on the radio so far, but I worked for the Dept. of Interior for a number of years, and over time have friends who have reached high places. I'm not surprised. Especially since the Bush administration has loaded the department with appointees. He not only filled the "usual" appointee positions, he systematically weeded out the upper level Civil Service folks who aren't Republicans or zealous enough Republicans and replaced them with party appointees. It really is a pathetic way to run an agency. Kind of like "Brownie" in the FEMA job. SRS |
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10 Sep 08 - 10:43 PM (#2436946) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Rapparee Ho hum. Another scandal in Interior. Like the Indian Trust Funds. Convict 'em, make 'em pay it all back, and hang 'em. You'll pardon the expression, but I'm really sick of this shit. |
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11 Sep 08 - 08:41 AM (#2437234) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: SINSULL The investigation started in 2006. Wonder why the story broke mid-campaign 2008... |
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11 Sep 08 - 09:01 AM (#2437247) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Rapparee Golly, I could never guess.... |
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11 Sep 08 - 09:26 AM (#2437270) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: pdq Perhaps we will be shocked to find out, three days before the election, that Sarah Palin was driving 20 miles an hour under the speed limit on a rural road after two beers and that this horrible offence (nobody here has ever driven after a beer or two, have they?) happened in 1977. Shocking, just shocking. And the news media talking robots will say "well, I guess that means it's over for ______. Tsk, and we've been told that ______is such a smart politician" |
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11 Sep 08 - 09:30 AM (#2437275) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Rapparee Why are you confusing the issue? The DOI thing has nothing to do with Sarah Palin, John McCain, Barack Obama, or Joe Biden -- although one duet will inherit the mess. |
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11 Sep 08 - 09:38 AM (#2437287) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: SINSULL I opened that door when I asked why this came out during the campaign when it has been in the works since 2006. But my point in starting the thread was to remind people that there are more important things going on in our government than campaign non-issues. Apparently I failed in that attempt. |
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11 Sep 08 - 09:50 AM (#2437294) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Donuel Drill Baby Driiiill don't stop I can't imagine the DOJ under Gonzales investigating this. I wonder who did. |
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11 Sep 08 - 10:41 AM (#2437358) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Bat Goddess Proof that the rest of the country is getting screwed by Big Oil? Linn |
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11 Sep 08 - 10:58 AM (#2437373) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Amos HEll, yuou will find the same kind of trough-minded favoritism throughout the top echelons of other bureaus, too--the park service comes to mind--not those who actually work int he parks, but their political-appointee senior execs. I suspect that the Bush administration has generated, and allowed to fester, a culture of corruption, graft and opportunism across the boards. A |
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11 Sep 08 - 10:59 AM (#2437376) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: dick greenhaus The fact that this administration has been a functioning kleptocracy shouldn't be news to anyone. |
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11 Sep 08 - 11:08 AM (#2437385) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: DougR And you have the facts to support such an outlandish charge, right, Amos? DougR |
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11 Sep 08 - 11:12 AM (#2437389) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: pdq Facts? FACTS? He don't gotta show you no steeenkin' facts! |
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11 Sep 08 - 11:16 AM (#2437394) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Amos I can give you personal testimony, from an absolute authority, that I do suspect what I said I suspect. A |
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11 Sep 08 - 11:41 AM (#2437428) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: wysiwyg T'row the bums out, I sez. ~S~ |
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11 Sep 08 - 12:13 PM (#2437459) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Bill D gee, Doug & pdq.... for several years we have seen on TV (if we don't restrict our viewing to Faux News and Rush Limbaugh), stories of various scandals, cronyism, incompetence, ignoring of the law to promote entrenched conservative 'values', INCLUDING the graft & corruption Amos mentioned. Daring Amos to produce all the detailed evidence here in this thread is a classic tactic. This not a court! 'SOME' of the Bush administartion aided & abetted cases have already BEEN in court...others are being stonewalled by the "Justice" *cough* department run by, first, "I cant remember" Gonzales and then "I don't see it" Mucasey. I am assuming that there is a careful plan to make thousands of additional emails and incriminating documents disappear before Jan.20 if Obama is elected. (prove it? I don't have to prove it...it's not my job to prove it. Evidence does leak out that the practice is common. Those whose job it is to 'prove' it may have trouble proving anything EXCEPT that evidence is gone!) This administration is guilty of widespread abuse OF power in order to KEEP power. All Amos & I and others can do is note that we aren't dumb and can read and listen and make notes. I don't claim this Dept. of Interior scandal was 'planned' at the highest level of the Bush administration...but whoever did participate in it was almost certainly protected and quietly encouraged by the tenor of things to do whatever it takes to assure administration goals are met. I know it, and if you are not closing your eyes and plugging your ears and pretending....YOU know it, too! If McCain wins, just how damn much real 'change' do you think will be made in those embedded policies? Many thousands of bureaucratic lackeys will stay right where they are and just 'keep on keeping on' as before. pdq is right "we don't gotta show you no steeenkin' facts!" the stink is there, and we can smell 'em! |
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11 Sep 08 - 12:29 PM (#2437472) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: pdq |
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11 Sep 08 - 12:33 PM (#2437477) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Stilly River Sage the park service comes to mind--not those who actually work in the parks, but their political-appointee senior execs. Doug, Amos is right. Look also at affiliated groups--the National Parks Conseravtion Association is full of dead wood and bottom-feeders. They're quite corrupt. But sources can't be named. SRS |
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11 Sep 08 - 01:36 PM (#2437528) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Art Thieme In those arid places, there is no need for KY-Jelly with all that oil. So you ask, "Why at this time of the erection?" (Sorry, I mean election.) Art |
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11 Sep 08 - 04:34 PM (#2437681) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Rapparee BOHICA. |
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11 Sep 08 - 05:59 PM (#2437771) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Bill D LOLOL! Google is sure handy |
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11 Sep 08 - 10:46 PM (#2437962) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: The Fooles Troupe Yep - Great Band! |
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11 Sep 08 - 11:29 PM (#2437984) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Joe Offer Ronald Reagan started the practice of politicizing the bureaucracy, putting political commissars in regional and sometimes even local offices of Federal agencies. I remember seeing a memo criticizing the qualifications of one potential appointee because he had done nothing in the President's election campaign - his knowledge of the agency's work did not even come into question. I didn't notice any changes when the Clinton-Gore regime came in - Clinton and Gore seemed to like to keep their political thumb on every area of government, and it cost me the privatization of my job as an investigator. I was no longer privy to such information once Gore-Cheney came in, but I did read recently that a 32-yr-old political appointee was rejecting immigration judge applicants because they weren't pro-life. So, yeah, I can believe that the Civil Service has been corrupted to the point that a little sexual persuasion could garner some Big Bucks out of the Department of Interior. Still, in 25 years as a government employee and 5 years as a contractor, I wonder why nobody ever offered me anything, much less sex..... You'd be amazed what I'd do for a hamburger and a beer. -Joe- |
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12 Sep 08 - 12:23 AM (#2438005) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Stilly River Sage I didn't notice any changes when the Clinton-Gore regime came in - Clinton and Gore seemed to like to keep their political thumb on every area of government They appointed some very good people in their fields, who were professional park people, for example, in the NPS. Not what Bush did, in any way, shape, or form. He rewarded supporters. That's why the professionals knew that the current crop are corrupt--they know what ethical and professional looks like, and it isn't how these folks acted. SRS |
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12 Sep 08 - 11:57 AM (#2438417) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Bill D I am personally acquainted with a high-ranking person at EPA. He has been there since 1975 or so. He told me a long time ago how the Reagan administration had simply dismantled programs that took years to create, and decided that certain issues would just be ignored or handled 'differently'. He recently told me that in his area of expertise, his input on certain issues was not required. Decisions about them were being made according to policy, not science. Many areas of EPA were simply spinning their wheels, doing almost nothing, or putting rubber stamps on policies sent over from 'elsewhere'. I asked him why there wasn't more 'whistle blowing', and he said that whistle blowers usually get transferred or marginalized, and that IF we get a new administration with a better attitude, it is important that those who know & care retain a reputation for not being malcontents and trouble makers so that they can be trusted to administer the policy changes honestly. a delicate line to walk, but I see his point. |
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12 Sep 08 - 02:36 PM (#2438588) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Charley Noble Doug and PDQ- You already know that the Bush Administration is not defending those in the Department of Interior who are implicated in this scandal. They are shocked and appalled, and heads and other body parts will roll! And I would think it fair to compare notes on what may be happening in other Departments led by Bush appointees. Charley Noble |
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12 Sep 08 - 02:42 PM (#2438596) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Rapparee Let me point out that this is not by any means the first such scandal in this area of the DOI. There was an earlier one in 1990, but that seems to have been more along the lines of underpaid "frat boys" blowing off steam. |
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12 Sep 08 - 02:43 PM (#2438601) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Bobert "I did not have sex with...." Awwww, forget it... B;~) |
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12 Sep 08 - 02:49 PM (#2438607) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Rapparee Sex? What do you expect from the Department of the Interior?? |
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13 Sep 08 - 03:26 AM (#2439006) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Barry Finn The "Whistle Blowers Act" was made null & void by the Bush administration. That's why there are no more whistle blowers, they have been effectivly silenced & made to swallow their own whistles. It ought to be horns they are blowing, seaking of sex scandles. This "government for sale" policy has been from the begining so why the surprize when a Department is exposed? We saw a for sale sign being put up when the energy industry wrote our government energy policy. We see it with "no bid" government contracts. We out source "wars for profit" to mercenaries & black hearted companies, we sell out our oceans & mountains to oil, we're paid & bought for by the drug & health insurance industries. We are a nation of very undereducated future leaders, we are a nation that's dying to keep the medical industries alive & kicking, we'll sell out the bear, the wolf & the whale for a few drops of bloody oil & we'll sell out our kids for less. We buy & sell the law as if it were a comodity. Those caught in this sex scandle were not even remorsal about what they did, such is the corrupt climate that's been nurtured that this is now the public policy. Barry |
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13 Sep 08 - 05:23 PM (#2439449) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: kendall There was none of that when I worked there. |
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13 Sep 08 - 05:30 PM (#2439453) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: kendall Bush is appalled and I'm sure he will deal with it just as he did with Scooter Libby. |
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13 Sep 08 - 07:42 PM (#2439547) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: DougR No, SRS, Amos is not right just because YOU say he is. Amos' remarks are not limited tot he Interior Department. Amos probably blames Bush for Hurricane Ike. Bush, to his thinking, is to blame for every adversity this country has experienced since the year 2000 (and that includes all the hurricanes and tornadoes, etc.) DougR |
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13 Sep 08 - 08:52 PM (#2439601) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: PoppaGator Bush is not responsible for the hurricanes that have occurred since his quasi-election, but he certainly was responsible for transforming FEMA from a professinoally-staffed free-standing agency to a patronage mill under the umbrella of the Department of Homeland Security. I do not find it hard to believe that other agencies suffered the same fate. |
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14 Sep 08 - 01:56 PM (#2440109) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: kendall Doug, that is convoluted thinking.Bush IS responsible for his way of dealing with such things. |
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14 Sep 08 - 02:08 PM (#2440119) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Stilly River Sage No, SRS, Amos is not right just because YOU say he is. DougR, he is because I say he's right because I know what I'm taking about. I know where the potential whistleblowers live. Precisely. SRS |
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14 Sep 08 - 04:18 PM (#2440231) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Bill D Oh lordy... I just read Barry's post: "The "Whistle Blowers Act" was made null & void by the Bush administration. That's why there are no more whistle blowers, they have been effectivly silenced & made to swallow their own whistles. " no wonder! I was not aware that they had removed THAT threat to their autocratic rule, too. First habeas corpus, then signing statements...then..... What part of "lack of recourse to abuse of power" do some of you rabid Conservatives not understand? |
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14 Sep 08 - 04:25 PM (#2440237) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: DougR WOW, SRS, this is your opportunity to become famous! Become a whistle blower and tell everybody the names of the whistle blowers! You'll be on the cover of The New Republic, no kidding. DougR |
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14 Sep 08 - 04:31 PM (#2440244) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Bill D That, Doug, is a typical response....don't respond to the problem, just make a cute, sarcastic remark which solves nothing, but implies something faulty about the other person's postion, claim or character without actually being specific. That is being done **everyday in McCain/Palin ads . |
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15 Sep 08 - 10:08 AM (#2440944) Subject: RE: BS: Dept of the Interior Scandal From: Stilly River Sage He responded with ridicule, as one would expect, from someone who is watching his party perched on the edge of a precipice, ready to take a huge fall this election cycle. I am sure when the time is right names will be named. Crow will be served, along with (one hopes) some stiff prison sentences. SRS |