BS: Remember 9/11

11 Sep 08 - 11:01 AM (#2437380)
Subject: BS: Rmember 9/11
From: GUEST,Dani

I'm fortunate to be home today, and able to watch the ceremonies remembering.

Checking in when I can to the live feed of the reading of the names @ WTC.

Most moving to me is the students reading, representing their countries, each of whom also lost people: 95 of them. 95! I just saw the young man from Pakistan reading names.

Going back over the original thread, and thinking about that horrible day, it is still so confusing and frightening. What a complicated world we live in.

Dani

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11 Sep 08 - 11:08 AM (#2437386)
Subject: RE: BS: Rmember 9/11
From: katlaughing

Video footage available on MSNBC. Hard to stop the tears all over again.

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11 Sep 08 - 11:24 AM (#2437405)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Donuel

my column:

The War on Terror & the Destruction of Evil

A Jesuit teacher once told me that if your life or projects are without a strategy, you are merely a sailboat without a keel or rudder at the mercy of the wind and currents. Here we are 7 years later on the anniversery of 9-11 and at war longer than our campaign in WW 2, without one overall cohesive strategy. We have in fact completely ignored the clearly stated direct threats and strategy of our enemy.

What did our enemy say? Ossama bin Laden said as recently as 2004 that the United States would be defeated by driving them into bankruptcy. That is a single minded goal and focused strategy for victory. The rest of his rhetoric such as "the winds of Allah shall sweep our enemy from the land" is similar to our White House empty comments about victory.

If only someone in the US goverment had read Shakespeare or The Art of War we would have not merely vanquished our enemies but we could have brought them into the fold of the empire without fear, torture and killing.

We would have kept an eye on our treasury and financial Corporations, leaders and systems as the true target of enemy's invasion. We would have defended our stronghold.
We left it wide open to attack from within. The people and institutions that have attacked the United Staes and fullfilled Ossama bin Laden's strategy of bankrupting America are:
JP Morgan, Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Maning Credt Associations charging 30% interest, Lehman Bros., Billionaire Hedge Funds and the Corrupt to the core Mortgage Companies that invented the sub prime mortgage that later got bundle and sold in the the single biggest global swindle in history.

Yes the enemy was partly us. The leaders were lost in their head full of profitable dreams of Iraq oil fields. Their surge was the most far thinking strategy they could think of.
The new good of more bank bail outs, more coal, more big oil, more nuclear energy/weapons and more tax cuts for the rich will all insure more victory for Ossama bin Laden.

Who do we destroy to defeat this evil?

Who sold it out?
Who were the terrorists?
Who profited from war more than victory?
WHo could not see the forest for the trees?
Who will continue to be the traitor to our cause?
When the target was our economy, who pretended to protect it?

The whims of the ruling class has gotton us to this point and we need to take it back.

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11 Sep 08 - 11:33 AM (#2437416)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Donuel

And why are these questions never asked in this election campaign that is being called historic?

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11 Sep 08 - 11:40 AM (#2437426)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bee

My deepest condolences to all who lost family and friends in that terrible event.

I hear a jet plane flying over my house at this very moment, and I remember those days when the skies were utterly empty of human presence. At the time I was in a campground, for a month while my husband worked in a nearby town, and had just turned on our little staticy television to watch the weather. I tuned in just in time to see the second plane hit.

Later that week, I met a vacationing couple from Iowa. They were a gentle couple, with no thoughts of revenge or hate, just stunned by the enormity of what had happened. They already knew who they had lost and who was okay, fortunately for them no one really close. I can't forget, though, the lost looks on their faces as they accepted my expression of condolences, nor can I forget their friendliness. Today, I am thinking of them and all of our neighbours south of the border.

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11 Sep 08 - 11:42 AM (#2437430)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: katlaughing

Donuel, that is a powerful piece and you have my respect and agreement, but I wish this could be a thread of memory without bringing the politics in...even the candidates for president have stopped their ads for the day.

The live coverage is powerful I just wish they didn't have the strings playing...it doesn't fit...maybe a different repertoire would have been better.

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11 Sep 08 - 11:55 AM (#2437448)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: katlaughing

Beautiful choir singing right now.

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11 Sep 08 - 12:01 PM (#2437452)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: PoppaGator

I had ESPN SportsCenter on the TV while waking up this morning, instead of the usual Today show. Not on purpose ~ I wasn't thinking about the date, I just wanted to see highlights of the Mets' victory.

So, I've missed the network-news coverage of the annniversary, so far. I'm sure there'll be plenty more on the tube this evening.

Of course, it was a sad event, well worth memorializing. I'm perhaps extra-aware because I grew up in New Jersey, home to more World Trade Center victims than any other state or nation, even New York, and three graduates of my high school were among the dead.

So, I understand the sentiment behind a desire to keep politics out of it, at least for this one day. However, on the other hand, that event on that day was the beginning of, and the excuse for, so very much evil and wrongheaded governmental activity in the months and years ever since that I con't help but feel even more political outrage today than yesterday...

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11 Sep 08 - 12:16 PM (#2437461)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: C. Ham

One person who died in 9/11 was Jeff Hardy, the brother and bass player of folksinger Jack Hardy. Jeff was working as a chef for one of the companies in the WTC.

I didn't really know him, but I met Jeff a couple of times when he was playing with Jack and his memory personalizes all the rest of the victims for me on this anniversary.

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11 Sep 08 - 12:18 PM (#2437465)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: katlaughing

Poppa, you are right of course, and I want to offer my apologies to Donuel. There is no other current thread to which he could have posted that excellent piece and he has every right to have done so here. Donuel, please forgive me.

There is still live coverage going on at the link I posted, but nothing is going on, on stage at the moment.

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11 Sep 08 - 12:31 PM (#2437475)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: maire-aine

Very eloquently put, Donuel. Thank you for sharing it.

Maryanne

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11 Sep 08 - 02:13 PM (#2437549)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: gnu

I got a half dozen phone calls already today from people that stayed with me, came home with me for washing clothes/shower/got a tour of Moncton (mostly The Real Atlantic Superstore for one-stop shopping)/whatever. Since I live alone in a bungalow with a finished basement and two bathrooms, I was able to help out stranded travellers, as did so many here in Atlantic Canada when the US airways were closed. Kind of a warm feeling.

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11 Sep 08 - 02:15 PM (#2437550)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: katlaughing

One thing I will always remember about that day is I spent it with the TV on various live news channels AND with my Mudcat family. Several of us were at home that day and posted as we watched the horrors occur. We posted descriptions and updates for our friends who were at work and didn't have access to the live coverage. We were posting as we watched, unable to do anything to help, as the second plane hit. It was one of those times which we hope only come along once in a lifetime, but lodged that much more in our memories by having spent it together. The closest thing I can liken it to is being in the same room with whomever when we found out JFK had been killed. It binds us together, this kind of terrible experience, in a way nothing else could. While I wish it had never happened, I am grateful I was here with Spaw, Mick, Alice, looking for Sinsull who lived there, and everyone else who was here. It began HERE.

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11 Sep 08 - 03:06 PM (#2437588)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Donuel

As on Memorial day I planted a garden. 48 perenial bulbs and annual gold Chrys with a blue Star Aster center. I chose not to watch any TV today,   well I will watch 3 hours of House that I recorded. That irracible doctor is a kindred spirit.

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12 Sep 08 - 10:30 AM (#2438337)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Pseudolus

MSNBC aired a program last night called 9/11 As it Happened. It replayed the live coverage of all that happened that day. I couldn't believe they were showing it. I wish I could have seen the tributes all day but I could not. However, showing the live coverage? and the planes crashing into the buildings over and over as they showed on the actual day? I couldn't watch it. I went back to it several times because I just couldn't believe they were showing it but I couldn't watch it. Not because I didn't care or I was in denial...but all I could think of was if I had lost a close friend or family member on that day, would I want to revisit the "live" coverage and see the buildings before they crashed down on my friend or family member? I question the decision to run that footage and wonder just who their target audience was. It was sad....

Frank

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26 Mar 11 - 01:41 PM (#3122076)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

It was a strange day that day..buildings falling down on their own like a pack of cards, planes vanishing into the Pentagon...seemingly wider than the holes left in the walls...so little debris to see...all those fellas who stood to make a zillion from their insurance policies..especially the part that ensured against a plane crashing into the buildings..let alone TWO of course, which brought in a double whammy for that insurance policy...

Yup, the Firefighters, the Police, the top brass Army guys are all in agreement, let alone the Architects and Engineers, that all was not as it seemed to be on that day...

But heck, what do we know, huh?

And don't even get me started on the Zionist bits abd bobs...

Very glad her case has come to Court, or is about to...thanks for letting us know.

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26 Mar 11 - 01:41 PM (#3122077)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Little Hawk

Thank you. You will now hear a frenzy of denial from those who support the government's official 911 conspiracy theory...or else they will just put their noses in the air and loftily ignore anything like this that they find disturbing to their comfortable view of things.

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26 Mar 11 - 01:44 PM (#3122079)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D

...arrrgggggggggggggghhhhhhh!!!

(you may quote me)

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26 Mar 11 - 01:48 PM (#3122084)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S

Yes - Thank goodness this will now come to trial. Afterward we can move onto other important subjects - Like Obamas Kenyan birth and Bigfoot.

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26 Mar 11 - 02:00 PM (#3122091)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S

Question: If a court of law decided that there was no basis in fact for these allegations - would that decide it for you? I suspect it won't. Folks will just cry coverup and believe what they believe anyway.

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26 Mar 11 - 02:16 PM (#3122103)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D

You have it exactly, Wesley.

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26 Mar 11 - 02:25 PM (#3122112)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Skivee

This is bullshit.
I detested most things that Bush/Cheney did; but there is plenty to prove that they had NOTHING to do with planning, executing, of covering up the 9/11 attacks.
It is reprehensible to pretend otherwise. It's the same mindset that drives deniers to proclaim that the Apollo landings were faked; but with even less moral integrity.
I know people who were in the pentagon when it was hit. I know people who's relatives were on the plane that hit it. I know folks who lived right near the twin towers.
I heard the local news reports about the plane coming in low and smacking into the building. People who claim there was not any aircraft debris at the Pentagon are easily shown to be wrong by NUMEROUS images in local papers and local TV stations taken minutes after the impact.
The scale of the number of people who would have to be part of this supposed conspiracy would have been in the thousands. This would have had to include ( just to name a few)the military,local commuters, news agencies, cameramen, still photographers, news reporters, firefighters, air traffic controllers, medical techs, police, research scientists. Thousands would have not supported even the presidential election of Bush, let alone agreeing to be part of a plot like this that would have required their profound complicity.
The plane was seen hitting the building. A sequenced camera at an exit booth shows it hitting. The movements of the conspirators have been tracked.
I could go on, but those who refuse to believe the truth in favor of a complex lie will not be swayed.
Let me just scream this out in exasperation: JUST BECAUSE THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION WAS FULL OF ASSHOLES DOES NOT MAKE THEM CRIMINAL GENIUSES ON THE INSANELY COMPLEX LEVEL THAT THIS EFFORT WOULD HAVE REQUIRED.
I'm going to go take a pill now.

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26 Mar 11 - 02:40 PM (#3122123)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

What was that you were saying, Little Hawk? ;0)

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26 Mar 11 - 02:51 PM (#3122134)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S

Here's the video that explains it all:

The Truth

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26 Mar 11 - 02:55 PM (#3122138)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

9/11 Truthers - The Military Officers Facebook page

You'll find The Firefighters, The Police and The Scholars on there too, Wesley, along with those Architects and Engineers..

But..I guess you know better, huh?

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26 Mar 11 - 03:04 PM (#3122144)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S

Lizzie - Your best guess - how many people were involved in the plot and coverup?

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26 Mar 11 - 03:40 PM (#3122169)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: michaelr

Very glad her case has come to Court, or is about to.

Thank goodness this will now come to trial.

What case are you referring to?

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26 Mar 11 - 04:28 PM (#3122202)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D

The internet is funny, Lizzie... you can find 29 people who will swear that dinosaurs rode in the Ark with Noah. Once you accept certain premises, anything can be shown to follow. MOST of those "Firefighters, The Police and The Scholars" were nowhere near the WTC... and the ones who were have no particular reason to claim better expertise than the ones who did the careful digging, measuring, testing, etc. for the official reports.

You never DO explain how so many managed to hide such a huge conspiracy.

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26 Mar 11 - 04:45 PM (#3122211)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S

Bill - It's because they all pinky swore not to tell.

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26 Mar 11 - 04:45 PM (#3122214)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: VirginiaTam

hhmmm... I worked in legal (US Federal Code) editing pre and during 9/11. Funny how Dubya Jr, was putting protections in place, that he President could not be investigated or charged for criminal activity (Enron?) if the country was in a state of emergency and then suddenly, we had a state of emergency. Wag the Dog, anyone?

And didn't he behave quite peculiarly in the elementary school room, when he was told of the first plane hit on Trade Center? Why didn't he even look surprised?

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26 Mar 11 - 04:52 PM (#3122223)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Greg F.

Jeezis, the absolute 24 katat bullshit that some people will believe is frightening. Try to live in the real world, will ya, and do your fantasy trevelling on your own time.

PS: you know the Moon Landing was faked in a TV studio in Des Moines, dontcha?

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26 Mar 11 - 04:56 PM (#3122228)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: gnu

Des Moines? No way. Nevada I could believe but, Des Moines? Yer nuts.

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26 Mar 11 - 05:38 PM (#3122260)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D

LOLOL.. yep..by the way...

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26 Mar 11 - 06:20 PM (#3122283)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: MGM·Lion

I associate with michaelr's question of 0340 ~~ WHOSE case? WHAT case? what is all this ABOUT, please?

& what "Zionist bits & bobs", Lizzie?

Someone please explain something. I am beginning to feel like Casey's Strawberry Blonde, whose "brain was so loaded it almost exploded"...

~Michael~

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26 Mar 11 - 06:31 PM (#3122286)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D

When I first looked at the renewed thread, there was a post by an unnamed 'guest'. I assume it was deleted in line with standard policy.

I 'think' this is the case it referred to

It is better not to leave people wondering what the he** people are talking about.

In that link, a woman who was in the Pentagon and was injured, says she didn't see any plane or evidence of one.

I, personally, know a woman who was a Naval officer there who was knocked down by the impact, but not injured....if I remember correctly, SHE did see evidence of plane debris.

I can well understand why someone who was knocked out and in shock might miss a few details.

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26 Mar 11 - 06:48 PM (#3122289)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Greg F.

And then there's Fox Mulder. Go with the Flow- I Want To Believe.

Eyewitness testimony has been repeatedly proven to be - how shall we say- less than accurate?

Of course, we wouldn't want to let facts to get in the way of a good story --- the motto of the TeaBaggers.

God Help America

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26 Mar 11 - 07:08 PM (#3122298)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Don Firth

Never let the dull facts   
          interfere with a good yarn.      
                   —John Jacob Niles   
   Don Firth

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26 Mar 11 - 08:46 PM (#3122341)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST,Skivee

So,it's 9 1/2 years after their supposed convoluted plan to kill thousands and blame it on 19 Islamic extremists.

what has been the benefit to the supposed conspirators?
Outside of a Gazillion dollars pissed away and thousands more lives been lost, little is heard from Bush/Cheney. They didn't set themseleves up as some ongoing Junta. Please remember in this discussion that I was not, and will never be a Bush supporter. I an quite happy that Obama won the election.
That doesn't change the facts that statements dear to the 911 deniers have been have been cherry-picked out of context, and that scientific facts about how building behave when exposed to thousands of degrees of heat for an extended period act are ignored.
Lizzie do you really believe that steel doesn't soften and melt at 2,000 degreesF? If so, you should look at any photo of steel being worked in a mill. It is worked when hot specifically BECUASE it is softer. Do you think that soft metal is as strong as solid?
The designers of the WTC were not surprized in the least that the framework softened and collapsed and that the upper floors destroyed the weakened sections and everything under them. Neither was Bin Laden. He counted on it. He was trying to improve on his earlier attempt.
Do you believe that literally hundreds of tons... TONS of plastic explosives can be planted in public buildings occupied continuously without members of the public being aware of it?

This very discussion is very small example of the continuation of free speech in the US. I think the anti-Bush 911 deniers are as delusional as those who think that Obama isn't a US citizen and is secretly plotting to turn the US into an Islamic nation; but no jack-booted attack squads are bursting through the doors of LittleHawk, or Lizzie because they have spilled the secret beans.
There is a view that THE GOVERNMENT is a megalithic block of demons who want nothing more than to turn us all into mindless slaves is a convenient mythos.
Many of us in the DC area personally know members of the security agencies of the government who would not support or allow such actions to go unopposed. It would not be possible to manage thousands of co-conspirators, the security forces needed to oversee them for the rest of their lives, the forces needed to oversee the overseers, to control the news media, the people who would have been forced to lie that they saw a plane hitting the Pentagon.
The bottom line of the lawsuit is that a plane never hit the building (the basic design of which was selected by General Groves because of tests that showed it to be a superior shape in resistance to explosive blast waves)So everyone who says they saw diffently must therefore be lying and be part of the plot.
Aircraft are much more fragile that most people think. There is an old saw that goes "Why don't they just make airplanes out of the stuff that they make those black boxes out of". The reason is that the plane would be so heavy that wings could not support it. A 757 at maximum TO weight is 255,000 could you imagine how much it would weigh if made of much denser material? Passenger flight would be entirely impractical. Aircraft design has always been a delicate balance between making the craft light enough for the wings to lift, while being strong enough to resist the natural forces of flight trying to rip it apart.
Aluminum will melt and burn away at temperatures well below the burning point of aviation fuels. There are photos that clearly show the remains of the most substantial sections of the Pentagon plane...the destroyed remains of the engines engines, buried deeply in the building. Pictures taken right scant minutes after impact show debris outside the building as well. Who would have put that debris there, in full view of commuters on I-395 and the George Washington Parkway in the moments after the explosion?
If you throw a soda can hard enough at a stone wall it will burst. Now imagine the wall is the thick side of the Pentagon, and that the soda can is travelling at more than 300 MPH,is full of air, aviation fuel, two ignition sources, and a bunch of innocent passengers.
Workers at the Pentagon who were horribly burned by the explosion have repeatedly tesified that the impact was from outside, and that they smelled aviation fuels as they tried to rescue themselves and their coworkers.
Could you imagine what could possibly make people lie about it after they watched the offices they had been working in explode around them, whose faces and bodies have been destroyed by third degree burns, whose coworkers died before their eyes, who tried to drag the smoldering and smashed bodies out, who saw the body parts, who have to live with not being able to rescue the screaming friends on the other side of walls of fire?
Money? Fame? A big recording contract? Yeah, that just might work.

This lie does an outragious disservice to the heroes of that terrible day.

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27 Mar 11 - 12:31 AM (#3122404)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: MGM·Lion

Many thanks, BillD; got it now.

There are those who believe in conspiracy theories more or less on principle*: like "Never A Moon Landing & Apollo was filmed by Disney", right down to "Moors Murderess Myra Hindley Not Really Dead: they were scared of the public reactions if they released her so announced her death and buried an empty coffin"

{contd p 94}

of which "Holocaust Denial" is probably the most mischievous example ~~ where, now, do those of you above who do so believe [Lizzie et al] stand on that particular unhappy example? ~ & has that anything to do with your gnomic throwaway about the "Zionist bits and bobs", Lizzie?

*And there are more {one hopes} who don't...

...including ~

~Michael~

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27 Mar 11 - 01:00 AM (#3122409)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Joe Offer

I suppose it might be worthwhile ot post the two messages that resurrected this thread. they were deleted because the person posted anonymously, which is not allowed here.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST

Date: 26 Mar 11 - 01:17 PM

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/03/military-officers-911-case-against-bush.html

April Gallop's trial against the government. It's about time.

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Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 03:01 PM

My post was removed. Does that happen a lot here?

The post regarded the case of April Gallop. She was in the pentagon on 9/11. She was injured. She says no plane hit the building. She was not far removed from the point of impact. She is suing the government for contriving the event.

Why would a forum remove a post?

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27 Mar 11 - 01:18 AM (#3122416)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST,999

"Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 03:01 PM

My post was removed. Does that happen a lot here?

The post regarded the case of April Gallop. She was in the pentagon on 9/11. She was injured. She says no plane hit the building. She was not far removed from the point of impact. She is suing the government for contriving the event.

Why would a forum remove a post?"

Your post was removed because 'unidentified' guests--that is those who use no name or handle if you're old enough to remember CB--will and do have their posts deleted. It is not personal; it's the result of folks abusing the site and stirring all kinds of sh#t. If you adopt a name such as Guest, dallyypoo or Guest, tfvjytf you won't be deleted. Capiche?

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27 Mar 11 - 04:22 AM (#3122441)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

"...Do you believe that literally hundreds of tons... TONS of plastic explosives can be planted in public buildings occupied continuously without members of the public being aware of it?.."

Yup. The building was shut down for 'maintenance' shortly before 9/11, as I recall.

You talk of the heroes of 9/11...yet, it is those VERY people themselves who are asking what the hell happened on that day, WHY they were told to destroy all the evidence, when their whole training, their whole job was about recording every single bit of evidence until the truth could be found...The Firefighters have been screaming out about it for ages.....

Sorry, but I believe the heroes, not those who can't see beyond the end of their 'don't be silly, no government would do such a thing to its own people' theorists....

It's all out there on the internet..sift through the mad stuff, get to the serious stuff. I did it.   I didn't want to believe what I was seeing, watching, reading, hearing...it made me feel ill, to be honest...but I came away knowing far more, understanding far more.

You don't get highly intelligent, believable people, experts in their field, coming together, the top guys from the military, the firefighters, the police, the ambulance crews etc..etc..etc..learned scholar, architects and engineers, ALL standing together, all demanding answers to so many questions...

All hearing nothing but.....silence.


If there is nothing to hide, then every single question can be answered...right?

If there is everything to hide, then every single question will be ignored or ridiculed...right?

Ask yourself which of those options has happened...then think on it.


I went out there into the internt and found it...you guys can too. I put a great deal on my Facebook page, but I expect it's all fallen off the other end now, as it was some time back...

It changed my perspective on many things, including Israel...and there are now Jewish people themselves demanding answers, desperate to know the real truth, for the 'Nineteen Eighty Four' version of it...

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27 Mar 11 - 04:52 AM (#3122446)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

Sorry, that should read 'NOT the 'Nineteen Eighty Four' version of it."

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27 Mar 11 - 06:57 AM (#3122493)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: VirginiaTam

I can't help what I know. When I worked on Federal Code at LexisNexis, Bush was moving protections into place, prior to 9/11.

I remember the news video that showed the scene of his receipt of the news. He heard it and then returned to previous activity.

And that picture Don, tells me nothing. He always looks like that. Beady eyes can show no surprise, I guess.

On the other hand I knew someone who knew someone who's father was in the Pentagon. He sustained a quite nasty leg injury and yes, it was a plane.

I don't believe in conspiracy theory that it was all set up by our own government. But, I think the government possibly had some knowledge of what was about to happen. Note the word "some." And I certainly believe that the conservatives have used the event for all it is worth in controlling the voting public and pushing what I deem to be a war motivated more by economics than by morality.

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27 Mar 11 - 08:50 AM (#3122563)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: andrew e

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ppfinal.html

More on the pentagon

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27 Mar 11 - 09:34 AM (#3122587)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S

Lizzie, Little Hawk, ANYBODY - Your best guess - how many people were involved in the plot and coverup ? Numbers please.

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27 Mar 11 - 09:50 AM (#3122596)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

Well, that depends....

Are you talking just the USA or Israel as well?

As far as The Cover Up goes, the Cover *will* be blown off, but not in the same way as The Towers and Building 7 came down. It'll be blown off by The Wind of Truth that's whistling through The Military, The Firefighters, Emergency Crews and the Police..

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27 Mar 11 - 09:56 AM (#3122598)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST,999

"I can well understand why someone who was knocked out and in shock might miss a few details."

Bill, a commercial airliner cannot be dismissed as 'a few details."'

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27 Mar 11 - 10:35 AM (#3122625)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Skivee

VT. I remember the Bush reading a book video very well my self.
My interpretation is in line with Don Firth's. I didn't like the guy or the job he did as President. His environmental, health, educational, and military policies have proven disastrous. They MOST CERTAINLY tried to consolidate power at the expense of the "little guy", and give themselves protection against those opposed to their policies. But Bush as calculating murderer of thousands of American citizens and destroyer of the most valuable property in NYC?
I don't think that either he or his cronies were that smart.
And I ask again, how have they benefited by their supposed plot? There was no power grab that changed the US utterly. When his term ran out, both he and Cheney left office. Neither he or his advisers tried to make themselves "President for Life".
They didn't make themselves richer than they would have been, or more powerful, or get better "dates" with their pretty office staffers.
They certainly ineptly used that stupid color system to try to sway mid-term elections. It didn't work.
I understand your skepticism. There was a lot that stank in the Bush administration; but for me, this one doesn't pass the test.
I respectfully disagree with your thoughts on this.

Lizzie, I doubt that you can produce documents from the World Trade Center that tells folks that the two freaking biggest buildings in NYC would be shut down for maintenance. Nearly 50,000 people worked in the WTC buildings. Over the weekends, that number obviously dropped but there were still tens of thousands there most of the time. I don't think you have any idea of the physical amount of work you would be talking about...getting of tons of explosives into the building,(via what? semi's in the parking garages, then using the elevators on each floor?

How would you convince each business on every floor to just stop working for a while, and "we're gonna be installing some new "fun plastic protector padding around the supports right near every bank of elevators on your floor." The army of technicians needed to place charges on every floor in less than a month would have numbered in the thousands?... placing detonators, rigging electrical lines.
And to have NOBODY say "who are all these creepy guys in our office
Many of your experts turn out to be suspect in THEIR reasoning. Many of the Truther "facts" have been shown to be inventions and willful misinterpretation. Like your supposed "we're just gonna close the whole place down for a bit" memo, it's B.S.

Show me videos of all those explosive trucks arriving, taken by any of the various cameras in ATMs, businesses,street cams, etc. Nobody could have gotten them all. How about testimony from actual inhabitants of the WTC towers who said that they saw suspicious characters moving strange volumes of stuff around.
Chemical tests done by people I trust showed NO PE residue on WTC debris.
The look of the "explosions" out of successive floors of the towers was quite consistent with air being rammed out the sides of the buildings as the tons of material smashed down from above.
You've ignored my comment about steel softening when exposed to extreme heat over time. I can only assume that it's because it's inconvenient to your beliefs.

I have seen interviews with the men who designed the WTC towers. They stated that the fire protection system placed around each support girder was only expected to give a few hours of support in extreme heat...long enough to evacuate, but not to prevent collapse.
Planes were flown into each building at high speed, about double the normal landing of take-off speed.
The planes blowing through the structure blasted most of the fire retardant away, so the structure collapsed sooner than designed for.
Body parts and plane parts were found all around the WTC complex and the Pentagon.

The fact that thousands of people are convinced that the WTC and the Pentagon, and Shanksville were all faked is a statistical blip when compared with the millions who do think that the broad strokes are correct.
But opinion is not important. Facts are. The various conspiracy theories don't hold up in the face of facts. Keep in mind that for a lot of us these were local events; and that we saw a lot more raw images that you did in the UK.
Workers at the Pentagon who were horribly burned and injured by the explosion have repeatedly said that the impact was from outside, and that they smelled aviation fuel as they tried to rescue themselves and their coworkers.
Now please re-read this section of my previous post and think REALLY HARD about it:

"Could you imagine what could possibly make people lie about it after they watched the offices they had been working in explode around them, whose faces and bodies have been destroyed by third degree burns, whose coworkers died before their eyes, who tried to drag the smoldering and smashed bodies out, who saw the body parts, who have to live with not being able to rescue the screaming friends on the other side of walls of fire?"

Now what could you think up that would make a woman whose face has been burned up to lie about how it happened. You didn't see her, because by the time she was being interviewed on local TV, the international press had moved on. I saw a lot of that, as well as hearing about the impact face to face from people I know .
They weren't lying.

Lizzie, I could go on the www.Intratubesweb and find a substantial number of folks who that believe without a doubt that strange forces or aliens, or the government are actually inserting fibers and insects into their bodies.. They are wrong.

There are those that are convinced that the moon landings were faked...that hundreds of people I met at NASA (of all different political and philosophical stripes) are all lying...that at least the first landing was faked. And that every one of the major players has kept that secret for over 40 years. Nobody blurted the truth out while drunk, or while flipped out?
I saw the launches of the last two Saturn Vs up close and personal. It would have been easier to fake than the complex truth I saw. I have met and talked with several astronauts. The Soviets did not proclaim the landings fake, though it would have been a tremendous propaganda coup if they could have proven it.

During one of the Apollo missions, at a point when the remaining fuel was vented from the S-IVb stage. The moment was being shown on TV from the capsule.
My buddy Paul said,"I wonder if we could see that?" We went outside and saw the expanding gas cloud in line with the moon.

There are those who think that aliens crashed near Roswell, and that their bodies are floating in some big pool of formaldehyde somewhere.

The conspiracy theorists are wrong about all these things, but believe them as passionately as you do.

Please show me that "Closing the WTC for a bit" notice.
And please show me that support girders don't lose their strength structural integrity when heated to 2,000F for 2 hours...that they don't sag and lose the ability to support the millions of pounds of material above them
And please show me proof that no plane hit the Pentagon, since that is central to the lawsuit you have brought to our attention. I can show you proof that you are wrong, but you won't believe it.

Lastly. I've no lover of Israel, but what the HELL are you going on about with them?????

---

27 Mar 11 - 10:42 AM (#3122631)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Greg F.

Quoth Lizzie: I went out there into the internt and found it...

RIGHT YOU ARE! Ya read it on the Internet- IT MUST BE TRUE !!!

Jesus wept.

---

27 Mar 11 - 11:03 AM (#3122641)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Jeri

Photos Of Flt 77 Wreckage Inside The Pentagon

Conspiracy theories can be fun, because you don't have to answer questions, only ask them, and you can make up your own answers and expect others to refute them. They NEVER end.

Is it the same people who come up with these theories of incredibly intricate and delicate plots, executed precisely who also laugh at the government as being incompetent? "Military Intelligence" -- you can't have it both ways. You can despise the US government, but when you find yourself making up stories or believing someone else's to show how evil the government is, you're just trying too hard.

I don't believe anyone inside the Pentagon would have seen the plane except those who happened to be looking out a window in the outer ring on the side facing the plane's approach BEFORE it hit. Once it hit, it wouldn't have been a plane anymore, and people would likely be dead, injured or panicked. There are people from outside the Pentagon who saw it. There was a flight that disappeared somewhere and a planeload of people who disappeared somewhere and air traffic controllers who tracked the plane to somewhere.

And when people ask how many folks had to be involved in what would have been a Top Secret project, it would include thousands. I think that the people promoting this conspiracy theory are well able to create some explanation for that as well...

...they just haven't tried yet.

---

27 Mar 11 - 11:22 AM (#3122649)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Skivee

Andrewe: so the website that you point to tries to prove that what the government said about there being a 757 that crashed into the Pentagon is actually proof of a Gov. cover-up because various witnesses have agreed with the government's story. He tries to reveal a conspiracy by saying that what the conspirators have told you is true.
He notes photos of debris that have been photo-shopped, but I have seen versions of those same images without the obvious layering of photoshop textures.
The logic is so circular, but twisted that I think the value of Pi has been rounded to 3.0.
BTW, this guy's theory would mean that the lawsuit that Lizzie thinks is proof is a government conspiracy too; making the gal who brought the suit AND Lizzie complicit in the conspiracy. Points to you Lizzie. The nuttier you appear to be, the better you are doing your job. Ingenious!
...Or maybe Andrew, you by linking to the website, have revealed yourself as an agent of the shadow government's convoluted plot. This recursion thing can be fun.
I'm probably an agent too because my denial is likely a red herring meant to make the doubters doubt while doubting doubting...wait, if I was, that's just the kind of thing that I would say. So I should deny it. But that's just what you expect me to do, so that PROVES the Iocaine is in the second glass.
BTW I'm really not an agent of the shadow government...really...I promise.

---

27 Mar 11 - 11:28 AM (#3122651)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

Greg, there's a great deal on the internet that's true you know, alongside all the bullshit. It's why the world is changing, because truth is now far more difficult to keep locked up.

You want to find it, you go look, I'm fed up trawling through it all...As I said, it's on my FB way back, if it's still there at all...and on various 9/11 threads in here..click my name then browse the posts...

skivee, answer me this...WHY are all the experts coming out demanding questions are answered? Why did so much evidence 'disappear'?

How come the only three buildings that fell down in exactly the same way were had Larry Silverstein's name linked to them?   

I mean, is this man just the unluckiest or luckiest guy on the planet?


Jeri, heard 'In The Shadow of the Twins' have you?    Sadly, it's no longer on Youtube, but I'm sure you could ask someone on this thread for the lyrics...

---

27 Mar 11 - 12:17 PM (#3122695)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

Here ya go, guys....this is kinda interesting..especially when Werner talks about how the third largest building in history that simply 'fell down' due to office fires was never officially investigated...The other two buildings were of course, Larry's other interests....The Twin Towers..


Werner Simbeck: Member of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

Of course, Werner's a Mechanical Engineer, who's studied 9/11 for a long time, but I guess he knows zilch...

Also interesting is the comment about Stephen Harper....

---

27 Mar 11 - 12:44 PM (#3122713)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D

Lizzie...."WHY are all the experts coming out demanding questions are answered? "

They're not. SOME folks who take rhetorical questions as serious discussion are demanding 'answers', whether there IS an answer that fits their theories or not.

"Why did so much evidence 'disappear'?"

It didn't. There are claims about 'evidence' that never existed.

Look at the images in this page and read the witness reports! They thoroughly refute ONE theory... other pages deal with other theories, yet you rely on 'heroes' theories because....ummmm... because they're nice guys?
In past threads, we have posted explanations of what really happened to Larry Silverstein's buildings..... yet you just continue to go back to the assertions that show what you have now committed to.

In short, there are many, many experts and their detailed explanations on the web which make FAR more sense than just guess work by armchair conspiracy nuts. You simply have chosen a set of 'questions' that you claim are not answered...and which cannot BE answered because it is a circular argument to assert that because they are not answered, they must be true!

It has been EXPLAINED why buildings fell as they did... yet you look briefly at the technical explanations, and again assert "...but buildings CAN'T fall that way! I know because several people said so!"

I suppose that, 100 years from now, after no 'hidden conspiracies' are revealed, someone will say the same things again....

---

27 Mar 11 - 12:52 PM (#3122719)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D

and by the way.... there are CLEAR 'answers' on web pages you don't seem to bother with

---

27 Mar 11 - 12:55 PM (#3122722)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D

More... wanna bother to read it?

---

27 Mar 11 - 12:56 PM (#3122723)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

You read your pages, Bill, I'll listen to my videos....

So er..did you actually watch that video then? Did you listen to the Engineery bloke, or have you already ascertained that he knows nothing and is merely another scaremongerer, as are all his colleagues...?

---

27 Mar 11 - 01:28 PM (#3122749)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D

He's not dumb, just mis-informed...partly by his own faulty assumptions.

"You read your pages, Bill, I'll listen to my videos.."

Right.... you wouldn't want to confuse yourself with facts. I HAVE read many, many pages about the theories you assert, and then I went to see if there were good answer..... there were.

It's not useless to ASK... it is just strange to be so committed to the questioning that you cannot recognize reasonable answers.

---

27 Mar 11 - 01:30 PM (#3122750)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Greg F.

Greg, there's a great deal on the internet that's true you know, alongside all the bullshit.

So Lizzie- exactly what criteria do you use and what tests do you apply to separate the Internet bullshit from what's "true"?

Inquiring minds want to know........

---

27 Mar 11 - 01:43 PM (#3122763)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

Well, I feel that the Engineers probably know what they're talking about. Stupid, I know...but there ya go.

I also feel this way about the Firefighters do, and the Architects, and the Police, the Emergency guys as well and some of the top brass in the Military...then there's the pilots too and the scholars and the...... lordy it do go on and on, even more than I do...

Bill, you read, I watch...just a different way of learning.

The Firefighters in particular talk over and again about how they were told to destroy evidence, rather than save it, which is what they're trained to do, after *any* fire, let alone something as horrendous as 9/11...

Dunno...
Probably just being 'thick' me again, I suppose...

Sigh...I wish I was real clever like you guys, then I'd know all the answers, for sure, absolutely, positively, 110%, with no shadow of any doubt....

Not even the Shadow that hangs over The Twin Towers and what really happened...

---

27 Mar 11 - 03:17 PM (#3122843)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Greg F.

Not even the Shadow...

Wrong! Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? THE SHADOW KNOWS!

---

27 Mar 11 - 03:23 PM (#3122849)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

Now, now, Greg...focus, focus... :0)

---

27 Mar 11 - 04:46 PM (#3122895)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S

Lizzie - I'm still waiting for an answer to my question. Break it down any way you want to. How many people were involved in the event and it's coverup??

---

27 Mar 11 - 05:45 PM (#3122917)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Skivee

Lizzie, you blow past serious substantive questions about the practicality of the views you support.
Please back up and look at my questions and those of others...and answer them with something besides yet another than "this guy is a firefighter, engineer, military expert, so I don't have to think about what I'm telling you is the real secret truth". I could show you a lot more folks that I trust to take a strongly opposed view.

Do you believe that planes hit the WTC?...or why not?
Do you believe that intense heat of the aviation fuel caused the support girder failure that resulted in the collapse of both towers...or why not.
Do you believe that the failure of WTC7 was caused by impact damage and the heat of a large diesel fuel tank burning at the base of the building?...or why not.
Do you have proof that the WTC towers were "closed for maintainence just before the attacks as you "seemed to recall"? If so, where is that proof?
Do you believe that a plane hit the Pentagon? or why not.
Do you believe that if a 757 actually did hit the Pentagon, that the suit still has merit even if that the denial of that event event is central to the suit?...or why not.
Do you believe that the horribly injured victims who do not support your views are lying?...why would they do that?
Do you believe that a faceless cabal of agents run by Bush/Cheney, and supported by Israel or Jews, faked everything? ...or why not.

How did the conspirators benefit from the attacks?

I strongly suspect that you will avoid substantive answers.


Secret Agent X305A, Provocateur Division
I didn't mean that.
I'm not a real agent...or am I?

---

28 Mar 11 - 06:26 AM (#3123191)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST,999--darned memory

"...arrrgggggggggggggghhhhhhh!!!"

Quoting Bill is something I just love doing.

Regarding 9/11, there are things that just don't look right to me. You recall that psychology class in which 500 people witnessed the same scene and only three people got it right? Well, none of us was that guy.

---

28 Mar 11 - 07:04 AM (#3123207)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

"Lizzie - I'm still waiting for an answer to my question. Break it down any way you want to. How many people were involved in the event and it's coverup?? "

What cover-up? You've all told me there was none.

Nobody had anything to gain from it, not the Zionists who may have instantly created yet more hatred towards the Arabs, had they done it....not those who benefitted hugely from the insurance side of things, some of whom also happened to be er...Zionists...Not the government who rushed into Afghanistan faster than Bush loaded the Bin Laden's onto the planes to get them out of the USA....not the arms dealers, the war mongers, the US mineral companies who just happened to stumble upon around a $trillion's worth of Afghan minerals...

And don't even get me started on the FIRST bombing of the WTC and the disturbing part the FBI played in that one....All part of the public records, I believe, all documented evidence..but it kinda disappeared from the media pretty fast...

skivee....you'll never get the kind of answer you want from me, as my brain doesn't do the same thing as your brain, I'm afraid.

Again, I say to you, I trust the Firefighters, those who survived, who saw their friends disappear up that staircase, never to come down alive...those who were given orders not to collect evidence in the way they've been taught to...

Too many WTFs???? for me to believe what the US government came out with...

As I said in a previous thread, I bet you guys believed that there were really Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq too, huh? Why? Because the Government told you there was?

Hmmmmmm.........

---

28 Mar 11 - 07:35 AM (#3123237)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S

So you are unwilling or unable to answer the question. Which is it?

---

28 Mar 11 - 07:49 AM (#3123243)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

Wesley, do you know how many people, to the exact number, are involved in the cover-up of 9/11?

Do you know how many people are involved in refusing to answer the questions put to them by so many highly intelligent experts involved in 9/11, not just on that fateful day, but who've studied the outcome, in depth, ever since?


"Lizzie, there was *NO* cover-up!"

...a..d....i..n...f..n...i..t...u....mmmmmmmmhmmmmmmm

---

28 Mar 11 - 08:12 AM (#3123264)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: kendall

Not all the liars are republicans.

---

28 Mar 11 - 09:07 AM (#3123310)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S

Lizzie - Here's why the "inside job" story doesn't work for me:

Unless it was handled by Fu Manchu and his minions there would have had to have been too many people to pull it off without the story getting out. You don't seem to be willing to adress that issue. I suspect I know why.

FYI - I worked in the industrial metals industry for 16 years. I am not a metalurgist. But I worked closly with dozens of them for many years. I had to prove that what I sold met their standards. One of them was a highly respected member of the industry board that wrote the specs for industrial metals. What the chemistry of a particular metals consisted of and more importantly - what test results had to be met to make sure a metal qualified for usage.

When this whole "inside job" malarky gor started I asked the folks I was in contact with what they thought about it. Many laughed. That all thought there was nothing to it. One put it this way : "Hey - crackpot crave attention". Now I could trust your experts that you found making videos on youtube or I could trust men and women I've worked with and trusted. Guess what I decided to do?


Here's what a lot of your experts seem to ignore , pass over or not consider:

There is a big difference between the temps that a metals melts at vs the temp it will fail at. Metal will fail long before it melts.

Testing standards for metals can be deceiving. Metals are often tested using a 1 inch diameter test bar. A 40,000 test of a 1 inch test bar means a 20 inch OD bar can test at 24,000. It was never intended to meet 40,000. But that's how the metals industry grades materials - IF it performs this way at 1 inch it should be OK under this application. Are you familiar with tensile, yield and elongation tests? Charpy V notch tests? Heat treating tests and standards?

When you heat metal it changes the physical characteristics. It becomes something different. No one intended for these metals to sit in a fireball for extented periods of time. Because when they do - they change. And fail.

I'm sure you'll gloss over what I have to say or ignore it compleatly. That's your right. But whenever this trial is over it won't prove a thing to anyone who has already made up their mind.

After all - have you considered that it might have been the tri-lateral commision that was behind it? Or SPECTRE? My money is still on Fu Manchu in cohorts with Professor Moriarty.

---

28 Mar 11 - 09:54 AM (#3123328)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lighter

>Metal will fail long before it melts.

This fact is even more important than it might seem. It stands for whole textbooks full of rock-bottom facts that professionals know and that conspiracy theorists don't. They don't even think about such possibilities. They start from a point of complete ignorance, which they mistake for complete objectivity.

---

28 Mar 11 - 10:06 AM (#3123334)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S

Right Lighter. And some of the folks I talked to wrote those textbooks.

---

28 Mar 11 - 05:19 PM (#3123645)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Donuel

I learned just last Saturday that a Japanese friend of ours perished in 9-11

---

29 Mar 11 - 09:02 AM (#3124050)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Greg F.

Can't be- only Red-Blooded Americans died in the towers, right? RIGHT??

---

29 Mar 11 - 09:15 AM (#3124060)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: kendall

To hear the flag wavers and Sabre rattlers talk one would think so.

---

29 Mar 11 - 10:00 AM (#3124087)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S

There are a lot of these "inside jobbers" that are convinced that no jewish people were in the towers that day. I guess they all got the memo to stay home. Strange that not one of them has come forward to admit it......

---

29 Mar 11 - 10:52 AM (#3124112)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D

I heard a rumor that some crazy Saudi named 'bin Laden' financed a scheme to train 4 teams of young men to hijack 4 planes and crash them into US targets! Pretty far out, huh?
But that's SO improbable.... I think it's more likely that our government either planned or looked the other way while hundreds of anonymous 'experts' rigged explosives, programmed missiles, sabotaged radar, faked records, mentally inserted false memories into the minds of eyewitnesses, doctored thousands of photos, prevented the Air Force from interfering, spirited Saudi families out of the states, warned Jews not to go to work, and THEN managed to get ignorant and/or corrupt 'officials' to provide a fake 'commission' to do a superficial 'investigation' designed to hide their nefarious activities and blame the whole thing on that silly bin Laden fellow.
.....oh...all those billions to chase bin Laden? They were just rewards to the Military-Industrial complex for complicity in the scheme!

---

29 Mar 11 - 11:06 AM (#3124122)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Donuel

I started a thread titled 9-11 anniversary where I recounted the entire experience of my neighbor who worked at the Pentagon.
My interview of her took over an hour.

It was highly praised
I wonder if it can be found.

---

29 Mar 11 - 11:15 AM (#3124126)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: artbrooks

This one?

---

29 Mar 11 - 11:29 AM (#3124137)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lighter

Hey, Bill. What about the absolutely irrefutable fact, shown in a conspiracy theory video, that the hole in the Pentagon was shaped nothing nothing like the wings and fuselage of a jetliner?

So the hole could easily have been made by planted explosives, which matches up with the security camera stuff.

Of course, I saw the alleged conpiracy video on a History Channel show that argued against a conspiracy. But the History Channel might well be part of the coverup....

On the other hand, it's also the channel that keeps telling us that history itself got its biggest boost from space aliens, despite the coverup by mainstream "archaeologists" and "historians."

And the History Channel should know....

My head hurts.

---

29 Mar 11 - 12:41 PM (#3124200)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Stringsinger

One of the biggest problems regarding how well the experience of 911 is as a teaching moment is the lack of real information we have about it emanating from the white-washed official reports.

This is why it is indelibly drawn on our memory, it was never resolved.

---

29 Mar 11 - 01:09 PM (#3124215)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

From 'The Folks'....including folks who are architects and structural engineers.......

The word you'll hear most on this is...."IMPOSSIBLE!", so be forewarned...

REMEMBER BUILDING 7?

---

29 Mar 11 - 03:55 PM (#3124317)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: catspaw49

And the word I have best for it is HORSESHIT!!!!!

The whole Bldg. 7 issue has been debunked so completely it is to laugh that anyone still pushes it........or should I say "pull?" Notice how the truthers no longer make a big deal out of the word pull being used.   Feel free to read and examine a different site......CLICK HERE


Spaw

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29 Mar 11 - 04:01 PM (#3124321)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Greg F.

Yeah, Spaw, but of late bullshit is in the saddle and rides mankind.

(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

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29 Mar 11 - 04:04 PM (#3124325)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: catspaw49

***LOL***.........wait.....maybe I ought to be crying here...................***sigh***........

Spaw

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29 Mar 11 - 06:28 PM (#3124398)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D

"What about the absolutely irrefutable fact, shown in a conspiracy theory video, that the hole in the Pentagon was shaped nothing nothing like the wings and fuselage of a jetliner?"

Oh, I HOPE you are kidding. It has been explained 6 ways from Sunday why you don't see a wing shaped holes in the Pentagon...like you would in a cartoon.

***"Wings are fragile and break off. They have MUCH less mass than the basic bulk of the plane." ***

They DID find small pieces of wings....a couple with identifiable markings.
What one needs to do is LOOK at the images of various plane parts, both on the lawn, and inside the building and read the eyewitness reports of those who SAW the plane.....then work backwards KNOWING that it waqs a plane. This is what the 'real' experts did.

---

29 Mar 11 - 07:20 PM (#3124420)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lighter

I thought you could recognize satire when you saw it. You really should read things through before you reply.

OTOH, there must be people reading this right now who believe that the History Channel is part of the coverup. It's owned by Disney, Hearst, and NBC Universal, all big fat corporations with connection to billionaires. Follow the money....

---

30 Mar 11 - 07:04 AM (#3124673)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

I think one of you mentioned above about how the statements of witnesses who were actually THERE are so important...

I completely agree.....

So....here ya go...

Excellent words in the song at the end too........


Strange to be there to document evidence on an attack that apparently not a single person was aware about, other than a bloke in a cave and his accomplices...

But then again, maybe that's just lil' ol' me refusing to toe the official line and daring to ask questions....

Watch out, guys, here comes your Emperor...and once again, he has no clothes on...honest, he doesn't....He's stark naked...to the point of transparency...but you see him in a Saville Row suit all the time...

---

30 Mar 11 - 07:57 AM (#3124703)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: bobad

"When the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) first released its 2003 report Unraveling Anti-Semitic 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, we said then that these conspiracy theories were likely to form the basis of a new anti-Semitic canard that would linger for decades and be used to demonize Jews and Israel. Three years later, this prediction has proven to be true, as these theories gain more currency around the world, particularly in Muslim and Arab countries.

Blaming Jews for manipulating world events for their own benefit is not new -- it is at the very root of anti-Semitism. These theories are a continuation of age-old allegations that there is a secret and powerful group of Jews who regularly plot deceitful, sinister actions in order to gain power. These allegations were behind the fabricated anti-Semitic publication, The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. More than a century later, Jews are still fighting against this dangerous scapegoating, which has made them a constant target for hatred."

http://www.adl.org/main_Anti_Semitism_Domestic/9_11_conspiracy_theories.htm

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30 Mar 11 - 08:24 AM (#3124714)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: catspaw49

When you go deep down the Conspiracy Hole I guess there is nothing you won't believe. I have it on good authority that the Holocaust was a Jewish plan to make the Nazis look bad.................


Spaw

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30 Mar 11 - 08:33 AM (#3124716)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S

So if I saw the video correctly - part of the plot was to drive around New York City the day of the attacks in a truck painted with planes flying into the World Trade Center?

What purpose did that serve?

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30 Mar 11 - 08:45 AM (#3124727)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: catspaw49

Once again Wesley I must remind you not to bring any form of logic or reasoning into this discussion!   Honestly, I am so ahamed........I thought you knew better...........................

Spaw

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30 Mar 11 - 08:48 AM (#3124730)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

Well, the lassie who saw them apparently spoke the truth, just as you think your witnesses did...so who knows..Not much else has been heard of those guys since, although there's a TV interview with them out there, where again, they state they were there to document the evidence.

I tell you what though, if they had brought the George Washington Bridge to a standstill that would have created chaos for a very long time too...big bridge, horrendous even...I was scared shitless going across that thing, all those cars, all those traffic lanes...Yikes!

Blaming Jews is no different from blaming Arabs I guess....and it's not the ordinary Jewish people that are being 'blamed' here, but the Zionists, who, like any other extremist group will have folks in there who are heartless and don't give a damn about anything other than their causes.

Extremists are Extremists, no matter their religion, their nationality or their skin colour.

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30 Mar 11 - 11:12 AM (#3124845)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S

Sorry Lizzie but I just don't understand -why was it part of the plot to drive around New York City the day of the attacks in a truck painted with planes flying into the World Trade Center?

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30 Mar 11 - 11:19 AM (#3124852)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: catspaw49

They were probably selling candy bars out of the bed......fund raiser I guess...............

Spaw

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30 Mar 11 - 11:25 AM (#3124858)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Wesley S

Robert Redford has directed a conspiracy movie. Here's a link to the preview.


Youtube link

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30 Mar 11 - 11:29 AM (#3124861)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

More 'nutters' (as you would call them)....The New York Firefighters...

Some of these brave men didn't survive, but left behind their words as to what they were seeing and hearing. Others did survive, and are still using their words to tell the world what they saw and heard on that day...

So how do you explain all the glass that was blown out, in the foyer? I mean, the Firefighter himself tells you about it. The building hadn't yet come down, but the scene in the foyer was of an explosion, the force blowing *out* the windows, not in....according to the guys who were there, who were trained in these matters..and who are still, to this day, waiting for their many questions to be answered....

But hey, what do they know, right guys?

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30 Mar 11 - 12:21 PM (#3124897)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Jeri

Why the World Trade Center Buildings Collapsed, A Fire Chief's Assessment.

Do firefighters believe 9/11 conspiracy theories?

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10 Apr 11 - 12:08 PM (#3132460)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: bobad

More evidence illustrating to what lengths the US government has gone in order to cover up it's orchestration of 9/11 (clever bastard that GW)

Evidence against 9/11 plotters revealed

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10 Apr 11 - 02:59 PM (#3132545)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Jim Carroll

The 9/11 I remember is the one on September 11th 1973 when Augusto Pinochet overthrew a legally elected government in Chile, herded thousands of young people into Santiago Stadium where they were raped, tortured and massacred. Among the victims was Victor Jara, who was recognised as a protest singer by one of the guards, taken aside and had his hands mashed to a pulp with an axe, and then became one of the 'disappeared'.
Pinochet enjoyed the full support of the US and the co-operation of the CIA, and thanks to the efforts of British prime minister Margaret Thatcher (an ardent admirer), who used her influence to prevent his coming to trial for war crimes, was allowed to die peacefully in his bed, unlike his victims.
Jim Carroll

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10 Apr 11 - 11:36 PM (#3132800)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: J-boy

I have it on good authority that Bigfoot killed JFK.

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17 Apr 11 - 07:03 AM (#3136766)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

Firefighters, Police and other witnesses talking about the many explosions that were heard.

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18 Apr 11 - 10:08 AM (#3137382)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: catspaw49

The charges were planted and indeed the entire conspiracy was carried out by the zombified souls from the Bermuda Triangle. They have formed a group known as "Flight 19" and they are responsible for the entire 9/11 debacle. Additionally they have been responsible for the Tea Party and the election of George Bush plus other mysterious and dumbfuck things such as the 9/11 Truthers.

Spaw

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21 Apr 11 - 05:51 PM (#3139926)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D

You won't read the pages *I* list, but you like videos, Lizzie....

Try some of these if they work over there.
There was a 2 hour program on the topic, and I guess they just have selected excerpts online.

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21 Apr 11 - 05:53 PM (#3139929)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D

I should have realized someone would put them all on YouTube. Probably easier there.

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21 Apr 11 - 06:55 PM (#3139969)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp

What makes any of you buttfuck morons here in tbis digital back alley think that mouthin' off yer big fat OPINIONS (and/or makin' smartass wisecracks) about 911 on Mudcat Cafe will change anything in regards to 911? It won't. Trust me. It's like pissin' in the wind to post anything on this forum about 911...or any other serious matter, come to think of it. It's like tryin' to have sex with a brick wall. It hurts. It don't work. It's a waste of yer time. And the wall ain't impressed.

Or do ya just like to hear yer own voices ringin' gloriously in yer pointy little heads as you tap the keys? ;-D Yeah, I bet that's it! Hell, that's the only reason why I ever bother to post here...there sure as hell ain't no useful reason to...so why wouldn't it be the same for the rest of you chumps?

So while I've very briefly got yer attention (as you read this)...and while yer dreamin' up the next smartass thing yer gonna say in response...just remember this: King Kong Memorial Day only comes one day a year. NEVER forget!!!

- Chongo

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21 Apr 11 - 07:31 PM (#3139989)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D

What about Fay Wray memorial day?

As to OPINIONS, I just like to see both sides represented.

"...that's the only reason why I ever bother to post here.."

Ahh... got it!

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21 Apr 11 - 08:08 PM (#3140002)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp

Fay Wray didn't die by violence, Bill, that's why.

And I'm real glad ya got it. Yessiree.

- Chongo

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22 Apr 11 - 04:51 AM (#3140175)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

Thank you for the video links, Bill.   

I'm up to the bit where they're talking about how they removed most of the evidence, at the moment.....in Part 2.

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23 Apr 11 - 03:45 AM (#3140895)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

The thing is, my head kept asking me "WHY has National Geographic even gone down this road? Why are they even getting involved in this? Is this what they're about?"

...then I discovered that National Geographic is owned by The News Corporation which, in turn, is owned by Rupert Murdoch....I never knew that before, I have to say. I was totally unaware that Rupert Murdoch is linked to the National Geographic. How depressing is that? :0(


Thus, I've decided to stick with the opinions of the 9/11 Firefighters, Police, Military top brass, Emergency Workers, Architects, Engineers, Scientists and the Scholars too, all of whom have their own 9/11 Truth Websites, all asking the same questions, venting the same anxieties....because these guys not only know one helluva lot, but many of them were THERE at the time, cleaning up after countless shocking disasters throughout their working lives.

And...they have *nothing* to gain from their campaign whatsoever, apart from the truth.

Thank you anyway though.

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10 Sep 11 - 10:41 AM (#3221120)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Greg F.

QUERY: How is it posible that anyone would FORGET Sept. 11th? Is all the media frenzy & hoopla really necessary? Or is it just to reinforce the culture of fear?

Queen of Fools turn around, life will be your folly
Wave your wand at those who will waste away and worry
Play them for the fools they are and make their steps up for them
A clock that's shaken hard enough, it cannot stay in rhythm.

    -Patrick Sky

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10 Sep 11 - 11:20 AM (#3221141)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bill D

There's a pretty fine line between 'remembering' tastefully and *wallowing* in it. Round number anniversaries tend toward the latter.

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10 Sep 11 - 12:39 PM (#3221178)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Mrrzy

Just remember, 9/11 was not the beginning!

-Nov 4, 1979 - takeover of teheran embassy - first salvo in this third world war that has been being waged between the forces of fundamentalism (originally fundamentalist islam but the Xtian fundies are in too, now, thanks to Oslo) and the rest of civilization.

And the bombing by Hezbollah in April, 1983 that killed my father.

And all those planes blown out of the skies.

And all those embassies attacked, not just ours.

And all those hostages taken and individuals assassinated.

And the earlier bombing of the World Trade Center...

...and I would really like this list to not get longer.

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10 Sep 11 - 02:05 PM (#3221223)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Bettynh

And we should remember the martyrdom of Ahmad Shah Massoud, who perhaps could have led Afghanistan to rationality if he hadn't been killed by al Qaeda two days before New York was attacked.

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10 Sep 11 - 02:09 PM (#3221228)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: gnu

I won't forget. Every year, I get emails and sometimes gifts by post from the people I brought home so they could have a shower and a hot home cooked meal (my neighbours were doing the cooking), especially those with children that I put up overnight. I brought home 14 at a time in my truck so they could shower and get a break away from their makeshift accomodations at the coliseum. Atlantic Canada airports landed a lot of planes in short order.

Everyone wanted to watch the TV but after the first bunch, I unplugged it and said it hadn't worked for years. Couldn't stand to watch their reactions... when kids, and adults, started crying...

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10 Sep 11 - 03:58 PM (#3221266)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: GUEST,Keith A of Hertford

Some moving speaches at the Flight 93 service today.
Clinton was always a charismatic speaker, but today he is a politician without any further ambitions, and you know he speaks from the heart.

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10 Sep 11 - 04:50 PM (#3221281)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

Apparently the Mayor of New York has said there's no room for First Responders at tomorrow's service. But, there seems to be plenty for politicians..


No words really......

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10 Sep 11 - 05:08 PM (#3221290)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: Mrrzy

There is a 10th anniversary thread above the line, FYI, y'all. I double-posted my last post here, but have gone on with further comments there.

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10 Sep 11 - 05:33 PM (#3221300)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: gnu

It's a music thread above the line? Sounds odd.

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11 Sep 11 - 12:54 AM (#3221428)
Subject: RE: BS: Remember 9/11
From: katlaughing

OTHER THREAD.

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