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19 Sep 08 - 09:01 PM (#2445564) Subject: BS: How to destroy America From: kendall "Make the money worthless" (Osama Bin Laden) |
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19 Sep 08 - 10:23 PM (#2445606) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Little Hawk Oh, that would do it, all right. But who needs Osama? America can do it without any outside help, just by teaching its entire population to live according to the "buy now, pay later" philosophy, and giving them all lots of easy credit to financially hang themselves. |
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20 Sep 08 - 03:16 AM (#2445731) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: akenaton "The great money trick"...From "The ragged trousered philanthropists" by Robert Tressel......................Ake |
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20 Sep 08 - 03:56 AM (#2445738) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Teribus Kendall's proposed candidate - doesn't work - money merely gets replaced in some other form. Little Hawk's contribution while it may hold good for the simple-minded and the feckless would make no real impression - what Little Hawk and apparently quite a few posters on this forum make a mistake in doing is underestimating people in general - they largely consist of people with more than enough commonsense and a sense of responsibility and prudence - they're not as easily parted from their money, nor as easily led, as you all seem to think. By the bye the "buy now, pay later" philosophy enabled the birth of the Netherlands as it caused the defeat of their Spanish rulers (THE Super Power in Europe at that time) and also brought into being the British Empire after William of Orange and his advisers introduced the concept to England in 1688. Akenaton's referenced book advocates a socialist society in which work is performed to satisfy the needs of all rather than to generate profit for a few. "The Great Money Trick", in which Owen (character in the book) organises a mock-up of capitalism with his workmates, using slices of bread as raw materials and knives as machinery. Owen 'employs' his workmates cutting up the bread to illustrate that the employer - who does not work - generates personal wealth whilst the workers effectively remain no better off than when they began, endlessly swapping coins back and forth for food and wages. This is Tressell's practical way of illustrating the Marxist theory of surplus value, which in the capitalist system is generated by labour. Seriously flawed of course as Owen's start point had everything already in place, which in real life would not occur and would never occur under a "socialist" system/society based on the principle of satisfying the needs of all. My question to you Kendall is with the title - Why would anybody want to "destroy America"?? |
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20 Sep 08 - 04:14 AM (#2445743) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Little Hawk Why indeed? Who is proposing that we should? Supposing Kendall had started a thread called: How to destroy the ozone layer or How to destroy the oceans Would you have made the same kind of defensive assumption that this meant he wanted to see the ozone layer or the oceans destroyed? ;-) Or would a more sensible reaction be that he was pointing out a possible danger to America, the ozone layer, or the oceans? Kendall lives in America, so I think he's probably a bit worried about possible dangers to his society such as a financial collapse. The present financial crisis is happening precisely because a great many people used credit foolishly and bought things they couldn't afford, and because collosal amounts of American money have been wasted on efforts that produce no useful return: two foreign wars. China, in the meantime has been doing business. So has India. They've been doing things that do produce a useful return. |
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20 Sep 08 - 05:24 AM (#2445763) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Teribus Title of Thread Little Hawk - "How to destroy America" - Yes? Thread opened by kendall - Yes? Content of kendall's opening post - what he think's is a credible way in which that end (i.e. America's destruction) can be achieved. Where are kendall's counter arguements to dismiss OBL's contention? Not to be seen Where are kendall's suggested counter-measures to prevent such an occurrance from destroying America? - None in evidence - True? Title of Thread + suggested means. Note all following responses apart from mine followed kendall's lead. |
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20 Sep 08 - 06:09 AM (#2445779) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: GUEST,lox "My question to you Kendall is with the title - Why would anybody want to "destroy America"?? " No Teribus, Kendall merely reminded us of an Osama Bin Laden quote. Osama Bin Laden has vowed to destroy America. America is going through an economic crisis. The quote shows that Bin Laden considers undermining the US economy to be an essential factor in destroying America. Kendall is clearly, and concisely, making an interesting observation. It is of course of negligable likelihood, but it is an amusing possibility. Akenaton and Little Hawk clearly have the imagination to enjoy it in a lighthearted fun way, as it was intended. I bet you never get invited to parties. |
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20 Sep 08 - 07:34 AM (#2445806) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Teribus My question stands Guest lox, Kendall et all - Why would anybody want to "destroy America"?? That has after all been raised? but as yet has remained unanswered. One point though, it is not OBL or any action of his that is supposedly undermining the US economy is it Guest lox? So why would anybody else wish to destroy America? |
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20 Sep 08 - 07:45 AM (#2445809) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: The Fooles Troupe "Why would anybody want to "destroy America"" Much the same question would have been asked about The Roman Empire. But in spite of whether anybody at the time had any opinions about the matter at the time, it still fell... You are privileged to be living in special times, as The US Empire begins to crumble: take notes for your memoirs, and your grandchildren, if you will be lucky enough to have any survive... :-) |
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20 Sep 08 - 09:16 AM (#2445844) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: kendall Teribus, I never thought I'd have to explain this to you. I was quoting Osama Bin Laden. That's what he told his followers. He knows he can never beat us on the battle field. Ok, Now, He wants to destroy us because we have invaded his part of the world. We pose a serious threat to his way of life. We are the great Satan to the radical Muslims.We have stationed infidel troops on their holy ground.We support his mortal enemy, Israel. He told us some time ago why they hate us, but do we listen? Hell no! we listen to the chief Moron who tries to tell us that they hate us because we are free! Why do we listen to Bush when the real reason is coming straight from the mouth of the man himself? Now, another idiot is speaking. McWar says O'Bama hasn't had enough experience with only 2 years in the Senate, yet his latest crock of shit says this financial crisis is all Obama's fault! Why would anyone with an IQ over 60 listen to him either? |
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20 Sep 08 - 09:26 AM (#2445852) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Stilly River Sage Teribus wants to argue. He doesn't like most of the people at Mudcat so he comes over here to get himself worked up on the various threads he can characterise is "liberal" or that are started by the individuals he doesn't like or respect. If anyone else says "yes" it is programmed into his brain to respond "no!" and start swinging. He deserves no response whatsoever, in my opinion. Carry on with the discussion as if he hadn't butted in and tried to turn the whole thing into a slug fest. SRS |
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20 Sep 08 - 09:46 AM (#2445861) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: kendall I've never been one to back away from a fight. I've never started one, but I've finished a few. Also, I've never learned anything from someone with whom I agree. |
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20 Sep 08 - 09:48 AM (#2445862) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Teribus Kendall says that - "I was quoting Osama Bin Laden. That's what he told his followers. He knows he can never beat us on the battle field. Ok, Now," Simple question on that kendall. If OBL, "...knows he can never beat us on the battle field.", why the hell is he trying to do it and why is he encouraging others to sacrifice themselves in this cause that he knows is lost, while he sits back fat dumb and happy in his cave somewhere along the Afghan/Pakistan border?? OBL's reasons for hatred of the USA as detailed by kendall: 1. "He wants to destroy us because we have invaded his part of the world." Now when exactly was this? Could it possibly have been when the UN moved to eject Saddam Hussein's forces from Kuwait? Could it possibly have anything to do with the fact that having taken Kuwait, Saddam Hussein also threatened Saudi Arabia if it supported any move to liberate Kuwait? Could it have anything to do with the Saudi's unwillingness to put their security and that of Kuwait's in the hands of the Quartermaster-General of the by then defunct Mujahadeen and his rag-tag army of part-timers who could only offer guerilla warfare at the end of which the saviours would take over the Kingdom of Saud? Fortunately for the world in general the Saudi's relied on the UN and the US led coalition in 1990 and not in OBL - That is why OBL is ticked off - Nothing else, they all drift in and out as convenience dictates. 2. "We pose a serious threat to his way of life." Now what is OBL's "way of life" kendall? You mean radical islam and it's promotion of ignorance and intolerance? If so then every right thinking person on this planet irrespective of race, colour or creed should pose a serious threat to "his way of life", which, oddly enough, is completely abhorrent to the majority of Muslims living peacefully throughout the world. 3. "We are the great Satan to the radical Muslims." And this somehow is a bad thing?? So we damn well should be, if radical islam supports some of the instances reported. Anyone who has any respect whatsoever for human life and rights cannot have any common ground at all with these hypocritical hate-mongers. 4. "We have stationed infidel troops on their holy ground." At the request of the Guardians of the holiest places in Islam and as authorised by United nations Security Council Mandate 5. "We support his mortal enemy, Israel." Care to tell us how Israel is OBL's mortal enemy kendall? The UN supports Israel kendall. |
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20 Sep 08 - 09:53 AM (#2445871) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Big Al Whittle ' I've never learned anything from someone with whom I agree.' that can't be right. can it? Doc Watson might say, I'm a pretty good guitar picker. And even though you agree with him - you don't learn anything from him, you never learn anything from someone you agree with. |
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20 Sep 08 - 10:10 AM (#2445885) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Donuel Kendall, I dragged myself upstairs to write some thoughts this morning only to find that you and others are keenly aware of the irony of the war on terrorism and the financial target of the original attack 7 years ago. Ossama's insight into the american greed machines that are deeply intrenched in a political system that panders to religion and propoganda to sanctify every possible theft and fraud, rings true louder everyday. Spending into a hole was a standard means of having one less dollar for the democratic party to spend on families rather than only business. Combine that wasteful spending with war of unbelievable unecessary cost and the bin Laden strategy is victorious. 7 years ago I started a thread titled 'US loses the war' because of my fear that the republican mindset would fall into the very hole Ossama pointed to. We are in that hole. We are now digging deeper. Mega social engineering with the use of financial weapons aside, I had hoped we would be smarter than that but as evidenced by my loyal republican neighbors they would rather hurt Americans than ever suspect they could be wrong about their loyalties to politics that is so sickenly twisted around their religion and misplace urge for vengence. FOX asks is it patriotic for the wealthy to pay taxes? I would ask was it patriotic for the wealthy to steal from the last sanctuary of American's hope for the future, which was their homes. They could have stopped all the forclosures simply by saying we will not double and triple the ARM / mortgage payments, but they were too greedy to do that. They knew the idea of being too big to fail would give them one last sky high wind fall. Wall Street neo accountents who were actually called Rocket Scientists for their ability to make opaque investment schemes that were impenetrable to investors was the high technology of Wall Street. But I digress,,, They have one, bin Laden has partly won and the middle class of America is set back for THIRTY YEARS which is enough time to sideline the next two generations to the whims of capitalized wealthy to do with us as they want. game over...for about 25 to 30 years. Even if Barack wins, all his agendas are subserviant to building a ladder to just climb out of the crater created by the wealthy who understand the benefits of think tanks and mediocre politicians whose silence is cheaply bought. Even if you tried to revilt or demonstrate, the new laws would make you a terrorist or worse, an enemy combatent. Nothing less than your enslavement was the goal and it has been masterfuly carried out with all the stupid fall guys in place to take the blame in the eyes of the "average american" PS I believe that 9 out of 10 people on this forum are not the average americans in the sense of the blind loyalists I refer to. |
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20 Sep 08 - 10:30 AM (#2445893) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Donuel 2004 Bin Laden said t"he way to destroy America is to bankrupt their country", appealing to their greed and need to spend instead of understanding will be their fatal flaw. |
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20 Sep 08 - 11:08 AM (#2445905) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: akenaton Yes Donuel I agree. How would it be if Bin Laden was the second coming of Christ? Would we reject him?...Would we become his disciples? Are there any similarities? |
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20 Sep 08 - 11:15 AM (#2445909) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: dick greenhaus "They don't hate us because of our freedom; they hate us because of our air strikes" (Maher) |
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20 Sep 08 - 11:22 AM (#2445913) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Donuel Fortunately, having practiced 6 of the relgions of this planet I have determined that their claims are completly without merit with the exception of those whose strong and ongoing saftey net for the people who suffer the oppression of natural and man made disasters. Ossama is no more a messiah than Rush Limgaugh, Bill O'Reilly, John Stewart, Bill Mahre or George Bush. Hero worship or messiah worship can lead to very expensive membership dues and eventual betrayal of your inate talents and values. Best to think for yourself and obey the golden rule ake. |
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20 Sep 08 - 11:25 AM (#2445916) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Donuel The one EVIL REGULATION that Wall Street Bank owners find most repugnant, disgusting, destructive, horrendous, vile and unfair is the golden rule. (cartoon preview) |
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20 Sep 08 - 01:02 PM (#2446002) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: kendall Anyone with eyes that are connected to a brain knows and understands what I wrote. |
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20 Sep 08 - 01:11 PM (#2446012) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: CarolC Are we being told by a certain person in this thread that there is nobody in the world who wants to destroy America? |
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20 Sep 08 - 01:19 PM (#2446016) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Stringsinger The way to do this is to continue to devalue education, intelligence, compassion based on social understanding, the principles of the Enlightenment by calling all of the people who subscribe to these ideas as "elitist" and create the office of a dumbed-down redneck president who doesn't have to know anything but you can have a beer with him. You can invite him to your next Bah-bee-quew and he'll show up if not in the flesh but in spirit. You want to destroy what the Founding Fathers had in mind for this country? Ban books. Teach Creationism in Science classes. Deny Global Warming by setting up a cadre of phony scientists. Defund public education. Let education only be made available for wealthy people to propagate their misinformation in private schools and universities and politicize teaching so that it conforms to a standard of right-wing extremism and biblically accepted information. osama doesn't have a clue about this. He belongs to the above. |
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20 Sep 08 - 01:24 PM (#2446018) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Stringsinger "My question to you Kendall is with the title - Why would anybody want to "destroy America"?? The answer is simple. Ignorance of the principles of America and the Constitution. the deification of something of which these right-wing politicians have no knowledge. Who was it that said that "Hell is paved with good intentions?" "Destroy America?" In what regard Charlie? Answer: Not knowing what America and the political Enlightment of the Founding Fathers really was. |
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20 Sep 08 - 01:26 PM (#2446021) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Stringsinger The point is clear. Osama represents the repression of free-thought in society. In this, he is a mirror image of Bush/McCain. |
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20 Sep 08 - 01:36 PM (#2446029) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: GUEST,lox Well I gotta say, I couldn't resist posting above in the way I did despite feeling that I "knew better", and I don't retract the substance of my point (what little there was), but I didn't get the vitriol I thought I might in response and I don't believe in Kicking a man when he's down. So in the absence of the fighting attitude I'd expected, (and to some extent actually respect) I'll allow myself to admit that I agree with the point that the desire to destroy America is a crazy thing. As all you Americans here know, ordinary American folk don't deserve to die and the twin towers tragedy was not justifiable in any way. We can observe how things get so twisted and we can criticize our goverments and our "friends" and "enemies", but in answer to the question "why destroy america?" - well - in all fairness - none of us would want that. And kendalls observation is also fair and didn't need to be hijacked, having less to do with any actual interest in destroying america but posing an interesting if unlikely reason why the US economy might be in trouble. Its a thought provoking idea for a thread and didn't deserve such harsh treatment. Pax |
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20 Sep 08 - 01:45 PM (#2446034) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: CarolC A big part of the way the "War on Terror" is being sold to those of us in the US is the idea that there is a coordinated effort on the part of Islamic extremist (Al Qaeda being in the forefront of that effort) to destroy America. A big part of the way the missile defense shield is being sold to those of us in the US is the idea that there are a lot of people in the world (rogue states and terrorist organizations) that want to destroy America. If nobody is trying to destroy America, I think the taxpayers in this country would be a lot more circumspect about being willing to pay for those two programs. Which is why they're trying to convince us that there are a lot of people in the world who are trying to destroy this country. But we have been assured here in this thread that nobody is trying to destroy America, so we can now inform the US electorate so that they (we) can prioritize how our tax dollars are being spent. |
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20 Sep 08 - 01:52 PM (#2446040) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: michaelr Bin Laden said "the way to destroy America is to bankrupt their country". Mission accomplished, I'd say, with the aid and abettance of Bush and the neocons. Despicable scum, all of them. |
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20 Sep 08 - 01:54 PM (#2446043) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: GUEST,lox And of course it follows that it would be crazy fro an American President to want to destroy their own country. |
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20 Sep 08 - 02:39 PM (#2446060) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Little Hawk Any large and aggressive empire has a way of producing a good many enemies who would wish to see it destroyed as time goes by...simply because they regard it as a threat to their existence and their way of life. This was true of the Roman Empire, the Greek Empire, the Persian Empire, the Egyptian Empire, the Assyrian Empire, the Mongol Empire, the Japanese Empire, Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, the Soviet Empire, the Napoleonic Empire, the Holy Roman Empire, the Spanish Empire, the British Empire, the Aztec Empire, and every other empire. It is also true of the American Empire. Empires end up being destroyed for one of two reasons, generally speaking: 1. Their military foes outfight them. 2. They become decadent and collapse from within. In America's case, I think the latter danger is by far the greater one. In other words, the real enemy is within. All things on this Earth are temporary, empires included. |
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20 Sep 08 - 03:19 PM (#2446084) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: GUEST,skarpi at work hee hee vote for McCain |
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20 Sep 08 - 03:47 PM (#2446092) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: kendall "We want to make the US government small enough to drown it in the bath tub." (Grover Norquist, anti tax whacko) |
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20 Sep 08 - 05:00 PM (#2446114) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Alice and now for.... How To NOT Answer The Question did we just have 8 years of Republican administration or not? |
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20 Sep 08 - 08:47 PM (#2446209) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Arkie I am a bit surprised at Teribus question about "who would want to destroy America?" I seem to remember someone suggesting Saddam wanted to destroy America and was saving up to do just that so that the country is now engaged in stopping that destruction. Then there is rhetoric about Iran's intentions. I would have thought Osama's intentions would have been taken more seriously. I suspect that Osama considers it a victory of sorts to keep the USA engaged in Iraq for as long as he can since it is an expensive war in lives and dollars and since Osama is financed in part by oil proceeds he has an endless supply of funds again thanks to an administration and party that has catered to the oil industry and stonewalled alternative energy efforts for three decades. |
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20 Sep 08 - 08:48 PM (#2446210) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Bert How to destroy America - vote Republican again. |
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20 Sep 08 - 08:53 PM (#2446212) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: GUEST,heric I just read an unsubstantiated rumour that the Dems are seeking, for anyone who is upside down on their mortgage(s), a no-cost right to re-fi at a lower rate and at fair market value. Fire up your equity lines fast! |
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21 Sep 08 - 01:10 AM (#2446295) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: CarolC What does that mean, fire up your equity lines? |
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21 Sep 08 - 01:12 AM (#2446297) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: DougR Kendall, you surprise me. Teribus is right. Why would any rational person WANT to destroy America? An awful lot of people are taking terrible risks to get into the country. There must be some reason they prefer America to where they live now. DougR |
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21 Sep 08 - 04:57 AM (#2446363) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: kendall Doug, my friend, the key word here is "Rational". These extremists are not rational. Old saying, If you can't see the other guy's point of view, you would make a good lawyer." Here again, Osama Bin Laden has told us in plain English why they hate us, and you still don't get it.You still prefer to believe that we are Mr. Clean and have done nothing but good around the world, and they are just jealous. HORSE SHIT!! Study some real history. It's true that there are many people who want to come here, but there are many more who DON'T! You see? that's an example of why even our friends don't like us; arrogance. We have shat on so many countries over the past 100 years, I'm surprised they haven't rebelled long ago. They have had enough, and they are fighting back any way they can. Teribus is not wrong, just clueless. |
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21 Sep 08 - 05:12 AM (#2446370) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: CarolC Maybe the people in this thread who are saying that nobody wants to destroy America are right, though. Maybe nobody does want to destroy America, and our government and corporate media have been lying to us all this time when they have been going on and on about people wanting to destroy this country. |
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21 Sep 08 - 05:48 AM (#2446383) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: kendall Armies need enemies to justify their existence. President Eisenhower warned us about the Military Industrial Complex. Did we listen? From all I've gathered, it is my belief that we could defuse this whole problem by simply getting our infidel asses out of Muslim countries.If they are telling us the truth about their hatred for us, that would remove that reason to hit us. What we have been doing for the last 8 years hasn't worked, so why not try it? |
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21 Sep 08 - 07:14 AM (#2446413) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Stu " Maybe nobody does want to destroy America, and our government and corporate media have been lying to us all this time when they have been going on and on about people wanting to destroy this country." Well, it's worked for Bush and by selecting PanzerMom as his running mate the old warhorse McCain is making sure the tried and trusted formula of 'scare the living shit out of the population' approach to foreign policy and Homeland Security is staying current. A doubtful, cowed and reticent population is easy to control (and sell stuff to). |
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21 Sep 08 - 08:01 AM (#2446420) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: The Fooles Troupe Pity that Mr T - the self alleged military expert says "If OBL, "...knows he can never beat us on the battle field.", why the hell is he trying to do it and why is he encouraging others to sacrifice themselves in this cause that he knows is lost, while he sits back fat dumb and happy in his cave somewhere along the Afghan/Pakistan border??". It seems that he does not understand one of the basic principles of war - attrition. |
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21 Sep 08 - 11:14 AM (#2446506) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Teribus Attrition? With a loss ratio of 20:1 OBL and Mullah Omar would appear not to understand it either, eh? Foolestroupe. |
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21 Sep 08 - 11:52 AM (#2446532) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: GUEST,heric Fire up the equity lines means get your home mortgages and lines of credit up as much s possible, so that the taxpayers can eat it for you with that reduction (especially get it off the credit cards). But the rumour was probably wrong: "Democrats may want to revisit their proposal of earlier this year to give bankruptcy judges power to lower the principal and interest rate of a home mortgage. At the moment, bankruptcy judges only have this power over vacation homes. The mortgage industry is firmly opposed to this measure." Now THOSE are some choosey beggars!! |
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21 Sep 08 - 12:23 PM (#2446548) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: GUEST,heric "The only limitation would be that purchases couldn't exceed $700 billion *outstanding at any one time.*" http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122191819568460053.html Their task is to buy the worst of the worst, and negotiate with bankers on the price. The worst of the worst would be worth approximately zero, right? But we'll pay anyway. I can only assume that we don't get to mark them down further or write them off, then rush in for more. |
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21 Sep 08 - 12:30 PM (#2446551) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Greg F. Destroy America? No problem! Vote Republican- works a treat! |
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21 Sep 08 - 01:26 PM (#2446578) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: kendall Teribus, the answer to your question is so obvious, If you listen, and read) they believe that if you die in defense of Islam, you are a martyr and you go directly to paradise.That's why they continue this unwinable fight. |
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21 Sep 08 - 01:53 PM (#2446594) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Teribus Well as George S Patton once said: "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." |
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21 Sep 08 - 01:59 PM (#2446597) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Little Hawk Actually, anyone will continue an unwinnable fight as long as they are angry or bitter or proud enough not to want to stop fighting...or if their honour code demands "no surrender"...or if they feel morally justified in doing so...or for a variety of other reasons, depending on the situation. (And some do so simply because they have no other choice.) Some examples of various of the above: Jewish zealots at Masada. Spartan Hoplites at Thermopylae. The Apaches fighting the US Army. Most Japanese troops during WWII. The defenders of the Alamo. The North Vietnamese troops who fought to the death in Hue and other locations during the Tet offensive. To continue an unwinnable fight is seen as "noble" in some cases, it's seen as futile or foolish in others. This all depends on whether YOU identify with the people engaging in the unwinnable fight or not. If you do, then they're seen as heroes. If you don't, then they're more likely seen as fools or even "villains"...although there are times when even a sworn foe is seen as noble for fighting an unwinnable fight against overwhelming odds. Those who perished fighting unwinnable battles are celebrated in virtually every culture, and they are awarded the highest approbation by their people. Thus, it is NOT necessary to be seen as "a martyr who is going directly to paradise" if you want sufficient motivation to engage in an unwinnable fight. No. It is only necessary to feel that your cause is just, and the Muslim fighters clearly believe that their cause is just, don't they? This constant reiteration in the media of their religious motivations is a form of western propaganda that seeks to sidestep and discount other and much larger issues...since there are real, practical issues entirely aside from religious matters which are behind their grim resolve to fight. Religion plays a key part in motivating them, yes...but if they were all atheists they would still have plenty of reason to be angry at America, and plenty of motivation to fight. People have always been willing to die for whatever they believed in. It doesn't have to be something religious. Their "paradise" is merely this: the absolute assurance, in their own minds, that they are right and that those they are fighting against are wrong. That is what people really die for. (It's what keeps the people here eternally arguing with each other too.) |
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21 Sep 08 - 02:02 PM (#2446600) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor >>>Well as George S Patton once said: "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."<< Lots of such sacrifices have contributed more to wars than clearer victories. The Viet Nam war being the best example. But if you want one where your side won... What about the Alamo? |
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21 Sep 08 - 02:45 PM (#2446644) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Stringsinger first, do like Bush,....trash the Constitution. |
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21 Sep 08 - 03:10 PM (#2446660) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Little Hawk A great many "bastards" have won wars by dying for their country. Patton was just saying the kind of thing he enjoyed saying to people to show what a rugged, no-nonsense, "hands-on" type of guy he was. ;-) A lot of Patton's men died winning that war. Here's another interesting example of a hero who died fighting a hopeless battle against absolutely unbeatable odds, and who refused to surrender: Lord Grenville, commander of the English galleon "Revenge". He has been celebrated for centuries for fighting an incredible but hopeless battle against a much larger number of Spanish galleons. It ended, inevitably, with the death of Lord Grenville and most of his men, and the loss of the Revenge and several Spanish vessels...but it has given generations of British schoolboys something to be inspired by. And rightly so, I would say. He helped win a lengthy naval campaign by dying for his country. |
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21 Sep 08 - 04:22 PM (#2446705) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: kendall Our own revolution is a good example of fighting the good fight. The colonials under Washington lost almost every battle except Trenton and Yorktown, yet, they continued for 7 long years against the most powerful country in the world. If not for the help of Baron Stuben and LaFayette they would not have won at all. We would have ended up speaking English. Oh, wait... what happened there? |
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21 Sep 08 - 04:24 PM (#2446706) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: kendall Old Irish saying, "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees." You don't have to be Irish to think like that. |
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21 Sep 08 - 04:30 PM (#2446710) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: GUEST,lox "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees." How did the old man in Catch 22 counter that one? |
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21 Sep 08 - 04:42 PM (#2446728) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: DougR Carol C: I don't know to whom you are referring when you express surprise that someone on this forum might question who would want to destroy America. In my post I opined that no RATIONAL person would want to. I don't consider the terrorists rational. I wouldn't think anyone on this forum would. DougR |
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21 Sep 08 - 04:57 PM (#2446748) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Greg F. The "Tay-Rists" are about as rational as the lunatic religious fundagelicals the Republicans are pandering to with Palin- ANOTHER good way to destroy the United States. |
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21 Sep 08 - 04:57 PM (#2446750) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Little Hawk No rational person wants to destroy any nation, Doug, but rational people often want to destroy various ruling political regimes...for a great variety of quite rational reasons. The USA itself is fond of engineering "regime change" where and when it wants to, for example. Why should it be surprising that others might want to engineer regime change in the USA if they could figure out a way to do it? |
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21 Sep 08 - 06:03 PM (#2446806) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Teribus "Sink me the ship, Master Gunner - sink her, split her in twain! Fall into the hands of God, not into the hands of Spain!" By the bye it was Sir Richard Grenville, not Lord Grenville, the decision to fight was forced upon him because the number of crew he had ashore when the Spaniards were sighted. As for, "He helped win a lengthy naval campaign by dying for his country." Sir Richard Grenville's actions didn't affect the outcome one jot by dying for his country, what he did do was lose one of Elizabeths best warships. Lord Thomas Howard of Effingham did more to ensure English naval supremacy over the Spanish by fleeing, thus saving his ships which enabled them to fight another day. While allied soldiers died LH, more Germans died perfectly illustrating and lending weight to what General George S Patton said. |
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21 Sep 08 - 06:52 PM (#2446830) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: The Fooles Troupe "Attrition? With a loss ratio of 20:1 OBL and Mullah Omar would appear not to understand it either, eh? Foolestroupe." I never said the guy was playing with a full deck, T.... :-) But then the 'attrition rate' was pretty high in Vietnam too - if you have no 'advanced military technology', the only way to 'even things up' is with huge numbers of human lives. The Afghans did that against Russia too... The North Koreans tried that too... was a damn close thing at times, according to those who were there.... "there are times when even a sworn foe is seen as noble for fighting an unwinnable fight against overwhelming odds." Turkey & Australia have a long lasting closeness after Gallipoli a resounding win for the Turks, and a nasty defeat for the British/Aussies - the Aussies still consider Gallipoli one of out most 'glorious combats'. |
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21 Sep 08 - 06:58 PM (#2446833) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: CarolC I was mostly responding to the points made by the original person in this thread who has asserted that nobody wants to destroy America. That person is not the one who is asking me if I was referring to them. |
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21 Sep 08 - 07:20 PM (#2446846) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Little Hawk He has been termed "Lord Grenville" in some accounts I've read, Teribus, and we are clearly talking about the same man, Sir Richard Grenville, so spare me your tendentious nitpicking. He helped the English win that war by: 1. doing the Spanish considerable material damage in the battle and damaging their morale as well. and much more than that by: 2. giving the English a gloriously heroic and tragic incident to inspire their fighting men on to further efforts and sacrifices. You know as well as I do that the English nation loves an account of a valorous fight against overwhelming odds as well as any nation does, thrills to it, and has used such accounts to inspire further generations of young men to go out and fight for England. That is just stating the painfully obvious. It's normal for nations to be inspired by such incidents. You, sir, would probably argue all day with a dog if it barked at you or a tree that you drove into while admiring yourself in your rearview mirror, just because your overweaning bloody ego can't resist the impulse to do so. You're a fecking bore with a really bad attitude. Since you so clearly detest the politics and the beliefs of most of the people who inhabit this forum, why don't you go to some other forum that suits you better? Or are you just here for the aggravation? **** By the way, the Germans in the overall course of WWII succeeded in killing considerably more Allied soldiers than their own losses suffered in personnel. They did not lose the war because of a poor differential in the inflicted body count, they lost the war because they were very heavily outnumbered in men, munitions, and industrial capacity, and because they were being led by an extremely unstable man and a criminal administration which had a talent for making enemies of most of the other nations in the world, and because their overall objectives were unrealistic. Given those liabilities, anyone else would have lost too. Their chances of winning after 1942 were absolutely nil, because they had bitten off way more than they could chew. Germany does not and never had the industrial capacity to simultaneously fight Britain, Russia, and the USA. It could only end in a German defeat. |
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21 Sep 08 - 08:17 PM (#2446877) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: dick greenhaus Estimated A; Qaeda in Afghanistan: 9000 Estimated US troops: 19000 "if you have no 'advanced military technology', the only way to 'even things up' is with huge numbers of human lives. The Afghans did that against Russia too.." |
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21 Sep 08 - 08:47 PM (#2446891) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: meself Quarrel? Why, you, sir, would quarrel with a man for cracking nuts, simply because your eyes are hazel! If we had two such jacks, there would soon be none, for each would slay the other! And yet you would tutor me for quarrelling! (Or words to that effect). |
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21 Sep 08 - 10:31 PM (#2446946) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Joe_F We sure don't need any damn foreigners to make our currency worthless. The process was started by the economic geniuses who moved into Washington with that superannuated movie star in 1981. Their discovery -- that you can combine low inflation with low unemployment by borrowing money from foreigners -- has been exploited by administrations of both parties ever since. It has made Ponzi schemers of us all. With a little luck, in a couple of years we'll have a superannuated *beauty queen* for president. Perhaps her economic advisers will get us all hooked on chain letters. |
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21 Sep 08 - 11:33 PM (#2446969) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Donuel How has America been destroyed? First you use the courts. The Supreme Court is best. The Constitution and judicial decisions were always found on the presumption of liberty. Liberty was the guiding light for court decisions. For the last 30 years the concept of liberty as the foundation of decisions has given way to a foundation of the fight of government to complete and total authority!! (read the book (the dirty dozen) about 12 cases that subverted the Constituion toward Government power and away from Liberty. Then you rig the economy and get rid of anti trust laws , unions, and banking regulations. Establish new police powers and new police agencies. Make Congress acessable only to big money lobbyists. Let the Lobbyists right the laws. AND POOOOF here we are. PS owning the media and think tanks to dream up new rip off schemes speeds things up |
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22 Sep 08 - 01:51 AM (#2447018) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Teribus Nonsense LH, during the reign of Elizabeth I, "naval" operations against the Spanish amounted to little more than licensed piracy. What damaged the Spanish more than any vain glorious action on the part of Sir Richard Grenville or the English, was the contribution of the Dutch who both on land (They won their independence and kicked the Spanish out of the Netherlands) and at sea completely mastered their enemy. While the English tried to capture one of the Spanish convoys from the New World and always failed, the Dutch actually succeeded. Your statement about allied losses only holds true if you take into account the Russian front, where Russian losses were attributable to their tactics and Stalin's disregard for human life. In the west Allied losses were a fraction of those suffered by the Germans. |
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22 Sep 08 - 03:14 AM (#2447039) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: GUEST,petr well Drake captured Cacafuego - wasnt a convoy but carried enough gold to enrich the treasury and his investors many times over (along with the spices/tea etc) he brought from his spectacularly successful round the world voyage. So I wouldnt say thay always failed. as far as the comment about attrition: even with a 20:1 loss ratio the ratio doesnt matter so much as how willing a nation is to take that loss.. 20to1 sounds a bit like vietnam? A million or so vietnamese, 56,000 Americans. who won that one. I actually think this 'empire' term that is tossed about is an overestimation, considering they cant really win in small third world countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan .. never mind Vietnam and Korea. |
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22 Sep 08 - 03:18 AM (#2447041) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: akenaton My grandfather fought in WW1. Occasionally he would tell of comrades being hounded over the top by their officers......in most cases to certain death. War has no regard for human life. Those who make war have no regard for either the "humans" or the "sub humans" Those who defend war and the political systems which produce "global war", have no regard for those who are forced to prosecute their wars, or the innocents who will fall victim....Ake |
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22 Sep 08 - 03:14 PM (#2447509) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Teribus "as far as the comment about attrition: even with a 20:1 loss ratio the ratio doesnt matter so much as how willing a nation is to take that loss.." Now that I sort of like, I also liked the reference to Vietnam. Things depend on "how willing a nation is to take that loss.." - The US were comprehensively defeated in Vietnam because of the following: - The folks back home did not have the will - The war was being fought with completely disinterested conscripts, who were being poorly led. - No appreciation of culture and people or application of "Hearts and Minds". Now as far as Afghanistan goes: - Within the current Administration and in either prospective administration come January 2009 I believe that the will is there. In the case of Obama if he follows his plans for a precipitate withdrawal from Iraq he'd better concentrate on Afghanistan because whoever finds themselves there after the US quits Iraq "a-la-Obama" plan is going to face a storm. - The war is being fought by highly trained thoroughly motivated professionals who are inflicting serious losses on their enemies and have been doing so for the last seven years. This is unlike the Russian incursion, they like the US in Vietnam used a conscript army that was poorly equipped, lacked any motivation at all and who were appallingly poorly led - It completely exploded the myth of the invincibility of the "Red Army". - Massive aid and reconstruction will improve the lot of the Afghan people, right now they are a damn sight better off than they have been at any time in the last 30 years and things are only going to improve for them. |
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22 Sep 08 - 03:16 PM (#2447515) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Donuel NASCAR for professionals http://usera.imagecave.com/donuel/raceday.jpg |
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22 Sep 08 - 04:15 PM (#2447569) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: kendall O'Bama said he would send more troops to Afghanistan. |
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22 Sep 08 - 05:15 PM (#2447617) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Stringsinger " The US were comprehensively defeated in Vietnam because of the following: - The folks back home did not have the will They knew the war was immoral and wrong. - The war was being fought with completely disinterested conscripts, who were being poorly led. - No appreciation of culture and people or application of "Hearts and Minds". If they had any appreciation of culture at all there would have been no invasion. |
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22 Sep 08 - 05:18 PM (#2447621) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Stringsinger "- Within the current Administration and in either prospective administration come January 2009 I believe that the will is there. In the case of Obama if he follows his plans for a precipitate withdrawal from Iraq he'd better concentrate on Afghanistan because whoever finds themselves there after the US quits Iraq "a-la-Obama" plan is going to face a storm." The storm has already occurred as innocent people have been bombed. Regardless, the poppies are still being grown for a large percentage of the world's narcotics. |
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22 Sep 08 - 05:37 PM (#2447631) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: dick greenhaus The war in Vietnam was lost the day it started. Inasmusch as there was no defined event or point that could be ccalled "winning", it started as a commitment to a non-existent ruling power and wentdownhill from there. |
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22 Sep 08 - 07:35 PM (#2447714) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: GUEST,petr in the later part of the Afghan war the Soviet conscript army in Afghanistan was gradually replaced by the Spetznaz - not that it made any difference. The use of US stinger missiles helped too. but the attrition is having its desired effect on the wills of the western nations. see the french are talking about pulling out after the recent loss of about 9 or 10 soldiers, germany is likewise having a difficult time convincing the public - and in Canada which has had about a hundred killed prime minister Stephen Harper publicly admitted that by 2011 Canada will not be in a combat role in Afghanistan. (the Taliban know theres an election coming up in Canada and have stepped up their attacks) I actually agree with you here Teribus that the West should stabilize and rebuild Afghanistan, however Im doubtful that there really is the will for the long term.. In a recent frontline documentary about the Canadians in some distant Kandahar outpost.. it struck me just how inept the whole thing was. To build good will the Canadians promised to repair the local villagers generators - but turns out they didnt have the parts. So they went out to purchase some needed parts - but hey theres no Canadian Tire anywhere in sight and the local towns didnt have anything - and on their excursion they ended up shooting up some locals who got to close to them. Later they convinced the nearby villages to come to the base for free medical care and when many of them did (at great risk of Taliban reprisal) hundreds were turned away when the Canadian Doctors ran out of supplies. ?! (Geez why not just buy new generators and plan a bit better with the supplies).. Later that base was shut down.. You can imagine how the Taliban dealt with those who had been friendly with the Canadians.. |
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22 Sep 08 - 07:55 PM (#2447726) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: CarolC The goal isn't to stabilize and rebuild Afghanistan (if it was, it would have been done already). The goal is to create a pretext for the US and some other Western countries to build and maintain permanent bases in Afghanistan (and Iraq). That's why they haven't made a credible effort to win hearts and minds, and they've done everything they possibly could to piss off the local populace. |
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22 Sep 08 - 08:32 PM (#2447743) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Donuel The Opium trade my dear is a gift that keeps on giving. |
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22 Sep 08 - 09:21 PM (#2447774) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Riginslinger "How to destroy America" Elect Obama! |
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22 Sep 08 - 09:53 PM (#2447785) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Donuel Here is another way to look at it... Henry the bank teller looks at his pocket watch, a talisman of his that reminds him of his great grandfather who supposedly worked at a bank in Nebraska during the Wild West. "11:11 AM" he mutters and checks the time against the big Congressional Bank lobby clock. Just then two men staunchly swagger straight for his window without stopping at the receipt counter. One was average height and walked loosely the other one was stout and menacing. The gangly guy spoke in a near Texan accent that mimicked an authoritarian tone but sounded just palin silly. "Gimme all yer cash, I gotta start a war and I'm ina hurry". "We're all dead if you don't" grumbled the little fat guy. Henry pressed the silent alarm with his right big toe, sending a signal to the media and the bank manager. "How much do you need sir?" "Quit yer stallin and give me the cash!" Henry could see Mr. Rockefeller, the manager, approach. "Hiya George, I'm Mr. R, we were expecting you, but these things are usually done in the board room…Henry? its OK Mr. G and Mr. D are with big oil and what ever they need is fully approved. how much to start George" "Gimme all ya got". Mr. R chuckles and motions for Henry to go to the vault for the large parcel. Henry gets Ken and Rudy to get the forklift loaded with wrapped money on the way to the loading dock. "What was that all about Henry? said Ken, "I don't know, I've never seen anything like it, and Mr. R said not to put it on the books!" This goes on for years while Henry's boss brags about buying super sub prime machine gunned loans with a front end loader and bundled security package. With all the mondy going out the back door without any records of it Henry thinks about what his Grandfather would do. This had all the ear marks of a heist. Its September and sure enough Henry sees George furtively heading for his teller window. This time his partner is tall thin and bald. "Gimme everthin an this time I really mean everything , make it quick, I got Dick waitin in the car.!" Henry braces himself and for only the second time in 7 years he presses the alarm. This time the alarm is also connected to police agencies. Henry timidly asks "What is it for?" "I don't have time to tell you what for, the world will end if ya don't hurry up, now git goin". 'BLAM' Everyone turns toward the sound and sees Dick with a rifle standing over a man in his nineties laying on the sidewalk . "SHeeit, not agin" snarled George. Two police were now headed into the bank, one tall and black with a Sheriff badge and the other a white haired detective. "Whats going on here?" asked the Sheriff. George chimes in impatiently but without confidence, "I need $700 Billion dollars in a hurry and that's just fer starters!" The Sheriff asks both Henry and George "Is this a planned withdrawal? "YES" "NO" said George and Henry. The Detective waves his hand in dismissal and says, "There are no laws being broken here, this here is a deregulated bank, let him carry out his plan." George barks "Comon already I'm inna huury I got Dick out there and he jus might shoot someone else if this takes any longer!" The Black Sheriff asks quietly "What is your plan, man to man?" "We don't have time for plans, we gotta take this money right now before we close the banks" Henry springs into action, "You're nothing but a filthy lying crook you..#@#*#: Detective McCain breaks up the scuffle with just one powerful forearm . "He's right we don't have time to discuss this money what its for where it s going and who we are going to give it to" The Black Sheriff looks at the Detective and raises one eyebrow like Spock "..and who WE are going to give it too? ..You are in on this too?" "No well I mean uh the plan is fundamentally sound I mean the people are fundamentalists and they need…aw shit''' RUN FOR IT BOYS" The Detective races for the door in his walker while George and the bald guy head for Dick's getaway car…. |
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22 Sep 08 - 10:03 PM (#2447793) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Riginslinger Did all of this come about because the people elected a black sheriff? |
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23 Sep 08 - 02:00 AM (#2447883) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Teribus Guest petr - the French Parliament actually voted to INCREASE the number of troops serving in Afghanistan. The UK will also increase troop levels as will the US. CarolC I can remeber those on this forum banging on without one shred of justification about: - CPA is here to stay: Not true was it? - US wants permanent bases in Iraq: UN Mandate ends December this year and all foreign troops out by 2011? The permanent bases are where CarolC? - US only in Iraq to "steal" Iraq's Oil: Not one barrel has been stolen has it CarolC? And the Iraqi Government is completely free to deal with whoever they want - True? Internationally, Frank, in "Cold War" terms Vietnam was a success if the "domino theory" was ever to be believed. Because although the US lost militarily because of lack of political will at home, it showed "communist" Russia that "capitalist" America could afford to pay for the war, while they plainly could not. In short the game was not worth the candle, so the Russians gave up - The Chinese backed attempt at the same game had already been defeated in Malaya and in Borneo. |
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23 Sep 08 - 07:32 AM (#2447999) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: CarolC Time will tell on all of those points. None of them have been resolved yet. |
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23 Sep 08 - 07:36 AM (#2448001) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: CarolC ...and none of them will be resolved while the current administration is in office (nor even during a McCain administration if he gets elected), which tends to support what I said about the Bush administration's goals. |
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23 Sep 08 - 07:58 AM (#2448014) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Lox Reminds me of blazing saddles. |
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23 Sep 08 - 08:07 AM (#2448022) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Greg F. if the "domino theory" was ever to be believed Oh, yeah- the Domino Theory. Along with the tooth fairy & intelligent design. |
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23 Sep 08 - 08:22 AM (#2448034) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Mr Red Teribus misunderstands the unspeakable greed that is merely the extreme representation of that that is present in all human nature. The majority can exhibit restraint, given the mores to follow. But put a few grabbers in the pack and the trickle down effect is swift. If there is little reward in being used as fodder - you might as well be holding the cannon. And society then assumes a new norm. Look at litter (ignore the disease laden vermin), look at borrowing (ref Credit crunch), look at the standard of driving (in the UK anyway) and "community" is no longer based on geography - where it exists now. Until it hits their pockets, little will change. And water is a far more serious commodity in short supply. How full is Lake Mead? |
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23 Sep 08 - 08:22 AM (#2448035) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Donuel The domino effects works very well in markets but when it was propogandized that South East Asia was going to "fall to Communism it is a failed propoganda tool. The Tooth fairy and intelligent design are at least a manmade constructs that comfort children. Its when adults belive it too that things get dicey |
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23 Sep 08 - 08:29 AM (#2448039) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Donuel "We don't have time to wait!" says John McCant We have to pass the Bush Paulson Plan NOW Have you seen the Bush Paulson plan? It is 2 pages long. "give us the money - and no one gets hurt!" |
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23 Sep 08 - 08:29 AM (#2448040) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Teribus On those points that according to CarolC that haven't been resolved yet: 1. Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) "Citing UN Security Council Resolution 1483 (2003), and the laws of war, the CPA vested itself with executive, legislative, and judicial authority over the Iraqi government from the period of the CPA's inception on April 21, 2003, until its dissolution on June 28, 2004." I'd say that for something that was predicted by the chattering left as never going to be disbanded and was going to be used by the "evil US Administration of George W. Bush" to make Iraq into some sort of US colony it's pretty much resolved CarolC. It ceased to exist four and a quarter years ago!!!! 2. US - Permanent Bases in Iraq Current and final UN Security Council Mandate for MNF troops expires on 31st December, 2008 - That's about 100 days away CarolC - I ask again where are these permanent US bases in Iraq?? The Governments of the USA and Iraq (Note CarolC Government of Iraq not the CPA) are negotiating conditions for continued presence of US troops in Iraq until 2011 at the latest by which time ALL foreign troops must be out of Iraq (Express wish of the Iraqi Government) - There are no permanent US bases in Iraq are there CarolC?? So I'd count that as being pretty much resolved as well. 3. All about Oil - US in Iraq to "steal" Iraq's Oil This used to be quite a popular notion here on mudcat. No-ones so vocal about it know as the first deals appear to have been struck with people the Iraqi's did business with before, namely French, Russians and Chinese. Oh dear not so much as a single barrel of oil "stolen" by those "big-bad-Americans", Dianavan must be mortified. Until such time as someone can prove that this has happened I'd say that this particular issue, always in practical terms a non-starter, is resolved as well. |
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23 Sep 08 - 08:33 AM (#2448043) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Riginslinger Maybe the most disturbing thing is, when Paulson and those other guys get up there to talk, they all act like this is breaking news to them. Where have they been the last several years? |
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23 Sep 08 - 03:49 PM (#2448413) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: CarolC US troops are still in Iraq. The US government thinks it has a right to dictate policy to the Iraqi government. The US government is working very hard to try to persuade the Iraqi government to sign an agreement to let US forces remain in that country indefinitely. The US is still trying to persuade the Iraqi legislature to sign away Iraq's rights to its oil, and to agree that US forces and private contractors will not be accountable to Iraqi law. There are US bases in Iraq now, and they were built as permanent bases, not as temporary bases. The goal was not to stabilize and rebuild Iraq. The goal was to create a pretext for maintaining permanent bases in Iraq. |
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23 Sep 08 - 10:26 PM (#2448632) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Riginslinger And why not? We have to station unemployed Americans somewhere. |
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23 Sep 08 - 11:03 PM (#2448648) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Donuel We like a good government but all governments are corrupt in some way. Just like the Mafia we enjoy a good mafia to do the protection work and find stuff that falls off trucks around the world. When our mafia has a stupid godfather and every caper gets screwed up we get upset. When someone in the Mafia does business that ends up costing the whole family, you know what they do. |
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24 Sep 08 - 03:03 PM (#2449132) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: GUEST,mg My recipe. 1. Fail to discourage teenagers especially, but any single women from having children out of wedlock. 2. Teach only academic subjects in high school, with a sink or swim attitude. Do not under any circumstances teach classes that would actually teach them work skills and get them jobs. 3. Encourage teenagers to really express themselves, in as public a manner and as foul a language as they want. 4. Build crummy buildings and strip malls on your best agricultural lands. 5. Discharge sewage into your drinking water. 6. Build out of very flimsy materials in the path of floods, hurricanes, fires etc. When something happens, rebuild with the same materials. 7. Subsidize "art" that is obscene and profane simultaneously if possible. 8. Pay farmers to grow tobacco and too much corn. 9. Overprescribe medication to too many people and spend no more than 15 minutes with any one patient. 10. Expect that teens will make good choices if merely exposed to them. 11. well, more later. mg |
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24 Sep 08 - 04:11 PM (#2449194) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: Donuel Sounds normal to me. but #7 put me out of business. |
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24 Sep 08 - 05:09 PM (#2449241) Subject: RE: BS: How to destroy America From: kendall Put more republicans in Washington. They have done a great job of it so far, let them finish us off. |
