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07 Oct 08 - 07:33 AM (#2459120) Subject: Chord Req: Hard times of old England From: GUEST,Jiggers Hi, Anyone got any suggested guitar chords for Hard Times of old England (Billy Bragg version preferably) ? I managed to fit C, G and D chords into 'All the hard times of old England, in old England very hard times' but am having trouble with the rest of the lines. Jiggers |
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07 Oct 08 - 12:11 PM (#2459347) Subject: RE: Chord Req: Hard times of old England From: Tradsinger I haven't listened closely to the Bragg version, but try these: G Bm Em D C Bm Am D G Am Bm D Chorus Am D G / Am D G These are the ones that my band uses. Tradsinger |
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08 Oct 08 - 10:07 AM (#2460172) Subject: RE: Chord Req: Hard times of old England From: GUEST,Jiggers Thanks, some of it seem to work but I am struggling a bit. Can you add some words so I can see where the changes are ? Jiggers |
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08 Oct 08 - 05:37 PM (#2460571) Subject: RE: Chord Req: Hard times of old England From: Tradsinger Try this: G Bm Em D Come all brother tradesmen who travel along C Bm Am D And pray come and tell me where the trade is all gone G Am Bm D Long time I have travelled and cannot find none Am D G (Em) And it's oh the hard times of old England Am D G In old England very hard times Of course, that's just one way to chord it. There will be various other ways. Good luck. Tradsinger |
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08 Oct 08 - 05:42 PM (#2460576) Subject: RE: Chord Req: Hard times of old England From: Tradsinger Sorry, having problems with spacing. I'll try again. G Bm Em D Come all brother tradesmen who travel along C Bm Am D And pray come and tell me where the trade is all gone G Am Bm D Long time I have travelled and cannot find none Am D G (Em) And it's oh the hard times of old England Am D G In old England very hard times That's better - try that. It's basically one chord change per bar. Tradsinger |
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08 Oct 08 - 05:53 PM (#2460589) Subject: RE: Chord Req: Hard times of old England From: The Sandman http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu8CybKCbss |
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11 Oct 08 - 07:41 AM (#2462869) Subject: RE: Chord Req: Hard times of old England From: GUEST,Jiggers Thanks I am working on it. Jiggers |
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11 Oct 08 - 09:12 AM (#2462899) Subject: RE: Chord Req: Hard times of old England From: GUEST,Jiggers Tradsinger, I have worked on your suggestion and come up with something that I am happy with. Its based on the chords you sent and the ones my friend showed me from the Coppers songbook. Come all (G) brother tradesmen that travel a-(D)lone O (C) pray come and (D) tell me where the (C) trade is all (D) gone Long (G) time I have (C) travelled and (D) cannot find (D7) none And its (Am)all the hard (D) times of old (G) England In old (C) England (D) very hard (G)times For me this is easy to play and fits in with the way I sing it. Easy chords and no fast changes means I can focus more on singing it well. Now I can go and learn the words to the Billy Bragg version. Thanks for all you help Jiggers |
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11 Oct 08 - 09:43 AM (#2462919) Subject: RE: Chord Req: Hard times of old England From: Tradsinger That sounds good. As I said before, there are various ways to chord many songs, and the one I use is a little arty-farty with all those minor chords. But yours works perfectly well, so go for it. Great song and enjoy it. Did you know that it's a sort of parody, as it's based on the song 'The Roast Beef of Old England', at least tune-wise, so in the old days people would have spotted that and realised the irony of singing a song about poverty to a tune associated with feasting. Not a lot of people know that! Regards Tradsinger |
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26 Jul 10 - 11:10 AM (#2952477) Subject: RE: Chord Req: Hard times of old England From: GUEST,Ian Hi Anyone know how old the song is roughly, for example which war are they coming home from? Thanks to any helpers Ian |
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26 Jul 10 - 11:24 AM (#2952489) Subject: RE: Chord Req: Hard times of old England From: JeffB Thought to date to the few years after the Napoleonic War Ian. There was a series of bad harvests from 1816 which ruined a lot of farmers, and wide-spread unemployment and economic depression. The ruling and middle classes were still in the grip of anti-Jacobin hysteria which was most apparent in the Peterloo Massacre of 1819. I never sing the song without thinking of an ancestor of mine of the 1820s who was a tradesman who travelled alone, in his case a shoemaker who knocked together cheap shoes in an attic with his young family and then wandered the streets trying to flog them. |
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27 Jul 10 - 11:19 AM (#2953197) Subject: RE: Chord Req: Hard times of old England From: The Sandman is it a parody of The Roast Beef of old England?) composer Richard Leveridge. The Roast Beef of Old England "The Roast Beef of Old England" is an English patriotic ballad. It was written by Henry Fielding for his play The Grub-Street Opera, which was first performed in 1731. The lyrics were added to over the next twenty years. The song increased in popularity when given a new setting by the composer Richard Leveridge, and it became customary for theatre audiences to sing it before, after, and occasionally during, any new play. The Royal Navy always goes in to dine at Mess Dinners to the tune, which is also played at United States Marine Corps formal mess dinners during the presentation of the beef. The song provided the popular title for a 1748 painting by William Hogarth: O the Roast Beef of Old England (The Gate of Calais). [edit] Lyrics When mighty Roast Beef was the Englishman's food, It ennobled our brains and enriched our blood. Our soldiers were brave and our courtiers were good Oh! the Roast Beef of old England, And old English Roast Beef! But since we have learnt from all-vapouring France To eat their ragouts as well as to dance, We're fed up with nothing but vain complaisance Oh! the Roast Beef of Old England, And old English Roast Beef! Our fathers of old were robust, stout, and strong, And kept open house, with good cheer all day long, Which made their plump tenants rejoice in this song-- Oh! The Roast Beef of old England, And old English Roast Beef! But now we are dwindled to, what shall I name? A sneaking poor race, half-begotten and tame, Who sully the honours that once shone in fame. Oh! the Roast Beef of Old England, And old English Roast Beef! When good Queen Elizabeth sat on the throne, Ere coffee, or tea, or such slip-slops were known, The world was in terror if e'er she did frown. Oh! The Roast Beef of old England, And old English Roast Beef! In those days, if Fleets did presume on the Main, They seldom, or never, return'd back again, As witness, the Vaunting Armada of Spain. Oh! The Roast Beef of Old England, And old English Roast Beef! Oh then we had stomachs to eat and to fight And when wrongs were cooking to do ourselves right. But now we're a . . . I could, but goodnight! Oh! the Roast Beef of Old England, And old English Roast Beef! |
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27 Jul 10 - 11:32 AM (#2953205) Subject: RE: Chord Req: Hard times of old England From: G-Force I seem to remember Shirley Collins saying the last verse's reference to "just come from war" was about the Boer War. The rest of the song could be older of course. |
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27 Jul 10 - 12:11 PM (#2953227) Subject: RE: Chord Req: Hard times of old England From: Bernard Then, o'course, there's Les Barker's 'Hard Cheese of Old England'...! |
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05 Jul 15 - 05:25 PM (#3721202) Subject: Lyr Add: THE TRADESMAN'S COMPLAINT (from Bodleian) From: Jim Dixon It appears that these lyrics from a broadside have never been posted at Mudcat. Note they are a bit different from the ones made famous by the Copper family, which can be seen in our DT. From the Bodleian collection, Harding B 17(321a): THE TRADESMAN'S COMPLAINT Printed and Sold by J. Pitts, 14, Great St. Andrew Street, Seven Dials. Draw near, brother tradesmen; listen to my song. Tell me if you can where our trade is all gone, For long I have travelled but I can get none. [CHORUS:] Oh! The dead time in old England! In England, what very bad times! If you go to a shop and ask for a job, The answer is no with a shake of the nob. 'Tis enough to make a man turn to and rob. There's many a tradesman you'll see in the street Walks from morning to evening employment to seek Till he has scarcely any shoes to his feet. There are sailors and soldiers returned from the wars Who bravely have fought in their country's cause To come home to be starved; better stayed where they was. Provision it is pretty cheap, it is true, But if you have no money, there's none for you. What is a poor man with a family to do? So now to conclude and finish my song, Let's hope these dead times they will not last long, That we may have reason to alter our song, [CHORUS:] And sing: O the good times in old England! In England, what very good times! |
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06 Jul 15 - 03:56 AM (#3721266) Subject: RE: Chord Req: Hard Times of Old England From: GUEST "The answer is no with a shake of the nob." I'd be interested in the response if you sang that line as-is these days... |
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14 Jan 19 - 12:46 PM (#3971459) Subject: RE: Chord Req: Hard Times of Old England From: Mick Pearce (MCP) Since the song appeared on broadsides from the early 19th century - see The Tradesman's Complaint - Pitts, dated as 1802-1819, G-Force's remembered comment of Shirley Collins, that the "just come from the war" referred to the Boer War can't be true as the verse is in the broadside. Napoleonic war perhaps. The Roud index is mostly entries for the Copper family version or 19C broadsides. I don't know if there's anything earlier. Steve? There is a song in Roxburgh VII p4, "The Tradesman's Complaint Upon the Hardness of the Times, Deadness of Trade, and Scarcity of Money", which deals with a similar theme and may have been an inspiration, if not an ancestor of this one. Mick |
