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15 Oct 08 - 10:18 PM (#2466871) Subject: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad A good friend's daughter is doing her phd thesis on the counterculture scene of the 60's in Montreal and is picking my brain for information. One question she asked has me stumped so I thought I'd pass it by the Mudcat people who were there then. This is the question: "So here's the question of the hour: where were the beautiful people of Montreal hanging out? Where was your Haight-Ashbury, your Yorkville, your Greenwhich(sic) village? Or was there even a village? Maybe it was spread out more, or had a few centres scattered about...I don't know. I guess what I'm trying to do is get a sense of the 'countercultural geography' of the city at this time. What are the hot hangouts, cozy book-nooks, cafés, headshops, meditation centres or green patches? Were anglo and franco mingling in these places? So many questions, so little time..." I can think of a few venues like the Swiss Hut, Phantasmagoria Records, coffee shops and music venues but can't really remember if there was a specific geographic area equivalent to Haight-Ashbury or Yorkville. Anyone? |
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15 Oct 08 - 11:46 PM (#2466912) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Bobad, The early part of the 60's I was far away from Montreal. But come 67 I was where it was happening and that was anywhere in the downtown core. I'm speaking about "Expo" as you can relate I'm sure. My brother (whom you have met several times)and I would scrape up enough money to take Bus 112 to the Atwater park (I think that's what it was called)across from the Form, then pick a good spot on St. Catherine's Street and watch all the girls go by with the many different styles that were in fashion. And the 60's there sure were some fashions. But to make a long story short, the Hub for me was the expo grounds and the area near The Bay. There was a park I think across from The Bay located at the corner of St. Catherine and Union Street. Here the Hariachristina's(Spelling for Sure.) would hang out and attract an audience while other's would have their painting displayed. But I think that most times all we did was bar hop to see what was happening in the different locations. Good luck to your friend and hope I helped in a very small way. Beer (adrien) |
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16 Oct 08 - 12:07 AM (#2466916) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Here is where Bob Ryszkiewicz could help. Where are you Bob??? |
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16 Oct 08 - 03:03 AM (#2466976) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon The McGill "Student Ghetto". McGill on the West, St Lawrence on the East, Sherbrooke on the South; Pine on the North. The Fifth Dimension - Fifth Amendment Coffeehouse was a major hangout, along with the aforementioned Swiss Hut (a disgusting dive). The Hare Krishna temple was in middle.... Ah, the tales I could tell. I should be a tour guide. |
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16 Oct 08 - 03:05 AM (#2466978) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Oh, and the Birmingham, an apartment building corner of de Maisoneuve and Bleury. They tore it down in the 70's. For many yrs, it was a parking lot, and now they're building there again. But all the really cool people lived there at some point, like me. |
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16 Oct 08 - 08:56 AM (#2467175) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Bee Keep talkin' fellas - this is interesting history that i wasn't really part of. Expo 67! What a wake up that was for a lot of rural teenagers who'd never seen much past the end of their own dirt road! A group of local churches fund-raised to send 67 of us to Montreal for a week; hired a train car, put us up on the floor of a great big Montreal church...living in the balmy October of Cape Breton, we none of us had winter gear with us, and the Montreal church people had to loan us sweaters and coats, it got so cold. We had glimpses of the local scene as we wandered through the pavilions and the fair. I remember talking with young men who seemed as exotic to me as any of the foriegn exhibits, a couple of them invited me to come away with them. I was sixteen and couldn't imagine being so bold and bad. |
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16 Oct 08 - 09:46 AM (#2467212) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Oh, this has jogged a million memories. I started McGill in 62, graduated 66. 66-67, partially living on Lorne Crescent. 68-69, the Birmingham. In 70, I moved to NDG. It was a real "neighbourhood"; you could stroll around with no real plan and meet folks and do stuff, or do nothing. I guess I didn't have too many responsibilities. Here's a mini-vignette: Mid-60's. I was sitting around with a bunch of hippies on Ste Famille when the doorbell rang. To everyone's surprise, the caller was an "elderly" gentleman, who turned out to be the now-retired high school principal of several of them! He was just stopping by for a visit... ...I found this a little disconcerting, since most of my experiences with principals involved a short piece of leather. But things loosened up when the old guy asked: "Uh, do you kids have any dope?" And a few minutes later, the former principal and his former students were happily puffing away. Does anyone remember the short-lived coffee-house in the basement of St John's Anglican church? I believe I once saw Peace perform there, but he may well wish to correct me. A week later it got raided by the fuzz. |
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16 Oct 08 - 10:16 AM (#2467247) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace Just saw this thread. John, where was that church located? St Catherine St? There was the Yellow Door which housed (I think) an office for Americans to get help regarding getting settled in Canada until the Vietnam War was over. In the early 1960s jazz clubs were hubs for people disenchanted with some things. The Aylmer Street area was a focus. The drugs of choice were grass and oil. I don't know that through personal experience; some friends told me about it. The Penelope was mostly a bar, but there were other establishments very near-by that attracted some 'heavier' folks. Old Montreal housed some art galleries and lofts that were party areas, but the discussions were very anti-establishment. Too, that was a time when there was very much ethnic movement around the city. When there is unrest, it crosses cultures and languages. In the late 1960s there was a club called Johnny's Hideaway. Second and third floors of a building near the corner of Aylmer and Sherbrooke. Many of the clients spoke as though they were involved in efforts to 'free Quebec'. I know that some folks there carried friends, and possession of a knife didn't disqualify a person from having a beer or wine to enjoy in the ambiance of the rooms. Bob will have lots to add, and I'll get in touch with a few folks from back in the day and see what they recall. |
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16 Oct 08 - 10:33 AM (#2467265) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon St John the Evangelist, currently with a red roof, used to be green, right behind Place des Arts on de Maissoneuve. Had ghosts in the basement. They were trying to "reach out" to young people. Moose Hall, yes. Bob? Things started getting nastier in the later part of the sixties. A friend almost got his eye poked out in the Swiss Hut. I hated that place, it was dangerous, but it was where my friends hung out. I liked the Penelope. |
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16 Oct 08 - 11:59 AM (#2467335) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Hi Kids: 1967 was the year a much younger version of myself( I was 22) landed in Montreal via my first trip in an airplane to "scout out" Montreal. The family on my mother's side had lived here for 100 years. Montgomery St. was Grandma's place where the gas stove was always on. My first words in French were "patates frites" that could be obtained in a paper bag for $.15 on the corner of Ontario & Montgomery. Hogan, Bercy, Hochalaga were the streets of familiarity back in 1952. We came up every few years to visit. Way before that first plane ride. My uncles owned a hardware store in the area, and another on St. Denis. I used to help them prepare paint, cut keys, etc. I met John Foley in 1967, he had just opened the Yellow Door. Guys from the U.S. were there as it was a haven for people who weren't interested in going to Vietnam. Drug counseling, aid for the old Folks were under way under the guidance of Roger Balk, a Pastor/Reverend, I think, with long sideburns and connected to McGill. A hang loose, nice guy who was always smiling. For me, the core was "The Door" and the McGill Ghetto, La Bodega, and the Spanish bars along Park. You could slip in to the McGill Cafeteria and blend in nicely with the Canadians...HA This was a concern because I knew the F.B.I. had been looking for me back in Rhode Island. Not showing up for the draft was, uh, "not good" from their perspective. So, I spent the early years wondering if somebody would show up in a car and take me back across the border. For me, at that time, Old Montreal was "a bit tense" with the "Quiet Revelolution" perculating in that area. I found peace in Chinatown, with Lee Siu Pak and my Martial Arts friends. '67 was when I met Penny Lang, at a Hoot. She told John, "you should give this guy a gig, he's good." So, I was "in". The Door had food. You could create a sandwich for $.15. A slice of cheese was 5 cents, slice of bread 5 cents, ham 5 cents...That, and the never ending coffee. Blessings... There was this protest singer I admired. He sang songs that made sense..."Che Guevara", "Can I Come Across to You", etc. Always in a green fatigue jacket, or woodsman's coat. His name was Bruce Murdoch. So to return to the era...Park Avenue was for souvlaki, a new thing for me. We would go up there after a show to "The Meracles", Bougatsa, Galaktobouriko(if I spelled those right, witness a minor miracle.) We walked in with guitars, which the owners perceived as "trouble". It was a bit of a "closed society" up there, back then. I spoke to the owner and explained to him we were musicians there for the food, and not "hippies" wanting to disturb the tranquility. We got accepted... So, The Yellow Door was the core, you could get gigs in the outlying areas, Chateauguay, "up North", Sherbrooke, etc. The contacts were great and a lot of us "bonded" in more ways than one. Hangouts? "Phantas" for records. You could sit on the couches. One day I was in there, checking out stuff on the back wall. I hear a loud bang at the cash, and the sound of a record player arm scratching 'cross a disc. I turn around and see that everybody is on the floor except me...HOLDUP. The guy is waving what looks to me like a 1911 '45. The banging is coming from him hitting the cash register with it. He disappears into the street... Flashback to some Sgt. Det. in Montreal who used to carry an Uzi on a sling under his trenchcoat. Investigating the mob will not get you many friends. He goes to a Dep for some cigs where a robbery starts to take place in back of him as he's at the cash. He waits 'til they grab some money and head for the door. Then he opens up with the Uzi...Bye Bye bad guys. Bullet holes in the walls across the street. Ah yes, the 60's(and early 70's), Peace & Love... Skipping around here. Yeah the Krishnas, Hare, Hare. Those "Feasts" on Sundays helped with food on a few occasions. Respect & Thanks...Swiss Hut(10 cents a draft) New Penelope, Coffeehouse in a dark church basement near The Bay... But it was the people, the incredible people...Penny Lang, Wayne & Penny Rose(Rose's Cantina), John Foley, Bruce Murdoch, Chuck & Jenny Baker, Gary Davis, Bruce Cockburn, Dennis Brown, Bill Garrett, Roger Balk, Tex Koenig, Tammy Bayliss, Liz Tansey, Rick Whitelaw, Ron Bankley, Frank Quinn, Fred Torak, Murray McLaughlin, Gordon Lightfoot, Leonard Cohen, "Tippy" Trudeau(Pierre's brother) & wife, Lindsay Cameron, George Gruenfeld, Peter Chalmers, Jesse Winchester, Sue Ellen Lothrop, Allan Fraser, Daisy DeBolt, Roger the Clown, Ellen Shizgal, Kay Johnson, Noah Zacharin, David Young, Mike Regenstrief, Bill Staines, Paul Geremia, Roy Book Binder(U.S.), Mark Nerenberg, Josh Onderisin, Linda Pressman(Phantasmagoria), hundreds more... Thanks for the memories, Much Love & Light to you all... bob |
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16 Oct 08 - 12:19 PM (#2467367) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon At one point I got involved with some theatrical types who were doing "street theater" to protest such things as crummy housing, etc. For some reason, I was dressed as Charlie Chaplin, and we had various skits that we would perform as we paraded from Dominion Square to LaFontaine Park. There were about 40 of us in all. We had barely started off, when we discovered that, same day, same route, was a huge Separatiste parade, coming up behind us. Tens of thousands, outnumbering us 100's or 1000's to one! They loved us! We ended up seeming like an advance party for the FLQ, helping to clear the streets for them with a bit of light entertainment. Good grief! |
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16 Oct 08 - 12:28 PM (#2467374) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer I was going across the Champlain bridge one evening after dark and notice that the bonnet of the car was not closed (My first car Envoy Epic Station wagon.)so I pull over as there was little or no traffic to close it. Man in seconds I was surrounded by the army. Never forgot it. Bob R., you still in touch with with Fred Torak? Just wondering. Adrien |
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16 Oct 08 - 12:33 PM (#2467380) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Moose Hall...Yo...I'm with "Linda"...."Kelly" comes in and says he wants to have sex. She says, "Oh, O.K." takes him to some girls who have the same mindset. They go into the night...Is this where the expression..."Loose as a Moose" comes from? No, that's from Rhode Island and the Hornets of RIC... Quotes from The Yellow Door...Girl says,"what do I have to do to get laid around here?" Well, you just.... Nude women, wearing just painted bodies at the bar at Tatou years later on Halloween having a drink. I walk up and just say "Thank YOU"... Later...Same place, woman at the bar, I ask, "What's your sign?" She replies, "Clitoris rising..." Note: Real names confidential to protect, the young, innocent, and horny... Free Love...My My, The 60's... |
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16 Oct 08 - 12:36 PM (#2467383) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Beer: Just saw the Fred Torak question, Ron Bankley and I talked about getting together a while back. I'd love to see him. It's been 33 years... |
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16 Oct 08 - 12:39 PM (#2467385) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon With a group of guys who were all struck dumb by a passing transparent blouse, when one finally said: "...and.. ..it's all for free!" |
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16 Oct 08 - 12:43 PM (#2467391) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley yeah, all of the above for sure.... there was also a jazz coffee house on Mountain St. called Le Baril or the Barrel, just up the hill from Rockhead's Paradise... a dark, downstairs joint, cost a couple of bucks to get in... I played there a lot.. they'd have a prog. rock blues band start at 8 pm until midnite, then they'd feature the heavy cats... free-jazz, black NY players... who would often go until 6 am. Friggin wild stuff... Frank Wright, Albert Ayler, Ornette Coleman.... monsters all.... I also met and heard Walter Rossi there for the first time after he just got off a 2 yr. stint with Wilson Pickett... hooked up with a band called 'The Influence'.. just scorchin'.. Hendrix was set to produce them (Buddy Miles and Walter were good buddies) but Jimi died before that happened.... anyhow, just to say there was a lot of exciting music happening all over town and I was lucky enough to be a part of some of it... |
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16 Oct 08 - 12:45 PM (#2467394) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon One nice thing about the McGill cafeteria was the free food. Not served by the cafeteria; I'm talking about the stuff the students threw away. They'd come in, chuck their untouched lunches in the garbage and go buy some fries. Some other bums & I would fish them out & eat some Mom's neatly wrapped sandwiches! Got us through many a lean time. |
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16 Oct 08 - 12:58 PM (#2467412) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Peace and Love. Yeah, one day they had a Peace & Love day on McGill campus. Invited every cultural, political, and religious group to commingle, etc. Each got a turn at the stage, and everyone was having a good time. Then the Student Christian Fellowship got up and sang "folky" hyms. Their leader had just started to preach a bit about certain evil things, when... ...around the corner came the Hare Krishnas, dancing and jingling and passing out some kind of wholesome glop from a big pot. The Christian immediately cried out! There they are. What I was warning you about! The Satan Worshippers!!! So much for Peace and Love. |
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16 Oct 08 - 01:02 PM (#2467417) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: meself John: When do we get the animated version? (I don't mean you're not putting enough feeling into it, but the, um, cartoony stuff). |
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16 Oct 08 - 01:12 PM (#2467431) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Fred and a buddy of his (I think)Phil Arber were running a Bluegrass festival in Vankleek Hill for a couple of years. I think it has come to an end but not sure. Bob R.! Do you remember a gal who would fill in for Penny Lang some nights when she couldn't make it by the name of Joan Spence(I think that is her maiden name)? Just wondered. |
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16 Oct 08 - 01:13 PM (#2467433) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Well, this stuff is the raw material. Memories are like peanuts, when you get going it's hard to stop. Protest. So many went wrong. One guy (who briefly claimed to be Bob Dylan's brother) told me his plan for a coming protest. He knew where to get pig's blood, and would fill waterpistols with it, to squirt on the other "pigs". I decided to sit that one out. Shades of Carrie! |
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16 Oct 08 - 01:19 PM (#2467442) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Beer: Joan Spence...Not sure. If I saw her face, most likely...BR |
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16 Oct 08 - 01:29 PM (#2467460) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Azizi Keep talkin' fellas - this is interesting history that i wasn't really part of -Bee What Bee said. Although this discussion deserves to be above the line, I like that its in the BS section. This sections seems more informal, but that does not mean that the topic isn't as important as other subjects that are discussed in the above the line music/culture threads. This history needs to be gathered and preserved. I'm glad that bobad's friend's daughter is doing her phd thesis on the this subject. I hope that she or other people write a book about this subject. And I hope the book is as interesting to read as this thread is. |
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16 Oct 08 - 01:33 PM (#2467466) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad Thanks guys, for all your input. I'm sure my friend's daughter, Stephanie, will mine some useful information from all your reminiscences. I sent her a link to the thread so maybe she'll pop in to ask some questions. Your postings are dredging up some memories for me too. Bob, you mentioned Roger Balk, I hadn't thought of him for a while but remembered that I was married (the first time, you know - the practice run) by him. John, you asked about the church with the coffee house in the basement - it came up in discussion on the "Little Known '60s Folk Singers Thread" here: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=75122&messages=806&page=14#2200222 |
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16 Oct 08 - 01:51 PM (#2467494) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Hi Bobad. I don't think it's the same one. This was right by what is now a huge ugly UQAM building, which was a parking lot, and earlier, a residential neighbourhood. The coffeehouse idea only lasted a few weeks, basically ending with the police raid. I went there once, got beaten by a chess hustler (!), and the next week the cops came. They found joints on the floor and hauled everyone in. Happily I wasn't there that week. The church balked at running this experiment afterwards. The basement of the church is in some ways the basis of St Polyglot's in Ashcan Alley. It was very spooky and supposedly haunted. That church is where I received my formal religious education, and thus became a heathen. Between Bleury & St Lawrence, where JFK street, Ontario Street and de Maissoneauve all kinda converge. |
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16 Oct 08 - 01:55 PM (#2467502) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon I'll toss in this, which is a memoir I was writing up for something else. Not much meaning to it, except to admit how much I live in my own universe. A Zen Riot In 68, some students at Sir George Williams University, protesting what they perceived as racism, occupied and subsequently destroyed the Sir George Computer Center. I knew several of the people involved, and recently discovered that another friend had been in the Center at the time, although he was, at the time, unborn; he was there in utero!! This discovery triggered my memory of the event, which had a curious meaning for me. This memoir has nothing to do with race or politics. It may have something to do with Chaos theory, but probably not even that. I was working a dull office job at the time. Students everywhere were occupying buildings, for reasons ranging from the noble to the idiotic. I had other concerns, and took little but a nodding interest in this latest incident. One day, however, I heard that "all hell had broken loose" at the Hall building, so I rushed over to rubberneck. At the time I had a great love of computers, similar to the love one might have for, say, Angelina Jolie. In other words, I was never allowed to get close. They were distant, awesome, mythical creatures, which I longed to some day touch. As I approached the Hall Building, it seemed to be snowing heavily. But not with real snow: the air was filled with computer cards: Hollerith cards as they were known. The students were tossing them out the windows by the thousands! For me, the charging police and, now, smoke from the building, was secondary. I stood, up to my ankles in the Holy Writ! I reached down, picked one up, to see if I could fathom the meaning in these cryptic documents. Only one short line of computerese could fit on a card. The one I read said: X=X+1 I was thunderstruck. The statement seemed patently false, yet packed with arcane wisdom. I was filled with wonderment, as one might be hearing a Zen Koan, or even seeing a burning bush! I wandered off, the violence behind me forgotten. I would ponder the five mystic symbols for days. I can still see the card, the punched holes, the very typeface. I had a achieved a kind of satori. Years later, I found the meaning of X=X+1. In a way banal, and comprehensible, but fundamental! Those symbols turned out to possess vast power; changing my life and everyone's life as much as another five symbols: E=MC(squared). |
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16 Oct 08 - 02:33 PM (#2467539) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz John f. Weldon: "The Pines" on Pine Ave. where a watch was going on to see if the Management would remove a grilled cheese sandwich that was lodged behind the jukebox player at one table...It stayed there for four years. The phone was always answered, "Piiinesssss" for delivery. A hangout after a night at The Door. And Peace, I never inhaled either. The hash was oily, but smoooth...cough, cough...(Jesse's "Twigs and Seeds...")...And who could forget Maui-Wowie? A mint green leaf that could take you "past the outskirts of Infinity" in a heartbeat....And I seem to remember a younger version of someone you know called MudRock (who is even prettier now), crawling across the street on St. Urbain after uh, "sipping" a little brew. I was trying to convince him that "death by beer" was not the way to go, that he'd make it if he just hung in there. Ah, youth... A sequel to a party at Liz Tansey's(still remember that see-through Indian Blouse) where I spoke to Felicity Fanjoy(Ryan Larkin) while she was taking a bath...All that crazy stuff seemed "normal" back then...And if somehow I could return in time to the freedom of that era...Sure, let's go... |
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16 Oct 08 - 02:48 PM (#2467554) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Geez, there was a "feminist commune" across the street, and that was when feminism was a lot more fun than it got to be a few years later. I'm going to stop this story right here. Poor Ryan, I knew him when he was normal, and was able to observe his entire decline. Many folks tried to help him, but he was determined to self-destruct. I hope everyone's seen the animated film, including the documentary part that goes with it. In a way, that's a document about the counter-culture of the 60s. A LOT of people I knew felt that drugs were "good for you" and helped creativity. Some survived, some died, and some are still nuts. |
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16 Oct 08 - 02:55 PM (#2467559) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Is "the Grease" still there? Remember the guy who ran a little "depanneur" (a few doors from the Hare K's) which only opened at night when all the other stores were closed. He payed off the fuzz to let him stay open, but charged twice as much for everything. Those who tended to live by night had no choice as to where to get their cheese slices. I won't mention his nickname. |
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16 Oct 08 - 03:29 PM (#2467588) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Satan's Choice, Devil's Disciples, H/A, The Irish Mob, Mafia, Greek Mafia, Hendrix, Vietnam, Sir George, Ka-boom, Scott McKenzie, "If you're going to SanFrancisco...girl with flowers in her hair", Woodstock...Folk Music, Country Joe & The Fish, "Give Peace a Chance", Agent Orange, John Lennon & Yoko at the hotel, borrowed guitar... "Leather Boys, are moving in the alley... Secretaries with their Sugar Daddys See the punker, hasslin' with the cops... Every night, it never stops... In the city, no-one cares who you are, I blow the Blues on this guitar..."(from "In the City" -BR) And Ryan... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvfgLBMmtVs |
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16 Oct 08 - 03:43 PM (#2467599) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace I'll let Ron know about this thread. |
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16 Oct 08 - 03:55 PM (#2467606) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad He posted earlier, Bruce. |
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16 Oct 08 - 04:00 PM (#2467611) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer The Dubois Brothers selling rancid horse meat at Expo. Best damn hamburgers to be had. Then there was the terrible tragedy where 37 folks lost their lives at the Blue Bird (Wagon Wheel Club Upstairs)located on Union Street when it was torched.. Oops! maybe this was the early 70's not sure. |
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16 Oct 08 - 04:15 PM (#2467628) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Blue Bird. No, it was 68 or 69. I lived right around the corner. Saw the whole mess the next morning. Some guys got kicked out by a bouncer, came back and torched the place. |
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16 Oct 08 - 04:17 PM (#2467633) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace Damn. I missed a few posts there. Sorry, Ron. Thanks Bobad. |
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16 Oct 08 - 04:21 PM (#2467637) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley Rev. Balk did my 1st wedding as well... to a N.J. girl.. think it cost $30. There were a lot of marriages to help get Americans 'landed'... it ended successfully as did my 2nd... Hey Beer, I'll check into the Fred/Phil Arbor Bluegrass event in VKH and let you know... Remember when John and Yoko came to town in '69...and never got out of bed ? Anyway, there lots of stories, but I can't read much more cuz I licked the PC screen and am really starting to feel 'different'...now where did I put the broken kaleidescope ??? |
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16 Oct 08 - 04:26 PM (#2467638) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Around the same time as the Bluebird fire, the big police strike. Again, living in the same place. Total chaos. Lying in bed, I heard the running feet, screams, breaking glass. I pulled the covers over my head. The next day, got up, saw the destruction. Thought, Geez, those cops ARE good for something after all! In those days there were no civil weddings, so Leonard Mason of the (also torched!) Unitarian Church would marry anyone. Including Liz Taylor and Richard Burton! |
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16 Oct 08 - 04:39 PM (#2467646) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace That WAS a day. Cops announced they were on strike as of 8:00 AM and there'd been eleven--I shit you not--bank robberies before noon. Let's you know the trust even the criminal element had for the word of the cops back then. Hell, it coulda been a trap! |
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16 Oct 08 - 04:52 PM (#2467660) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Amos John: Your story of the Hollerith card is absolutely beautiful; the core of fractal beauty and strange attraction emerging from apparent chaos. Thanks for the grin--a true Zen moment which only the 60's could produce. LOL!! A poem from that era, on which I pondered (under some arcane neural stimulat or other) a similar number of hours, concerning anthropos apteros, Man without wings: Anthropos apteros, perplexed, Thanks again, A |
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16 Oct 08 - 04:57 PM (#2467663) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace That is beautiful. |
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16 Oct 08 - 06:09 PM (#2467721) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Amos The lines are an alteration of the original, which were by W.H. AUden, called The Labyrinth: The Labyrinth Anthropos apteros for days Walked whistling round and round the Maze, Relying happily upon His temperament for getting on. The hundredth time he sighted, though, A bush he left an hour ago, He halted where four alleys crossed, And recognised that he was lost. "Where am I? Metaphysics says No question can be asked unless It has an answer, so I can Assume this maze has got a plan. If theologians are correct, A Plan implies an Architect: A God-built maze would be, I'm sure, The Universe in miniature. Are data from the world of Sense, In that case, valid evidence? What in the universe I know Can give directions how to go? All Mathematics would suggest A steady straight line as the best, But left and right alternately Is consonant with History. Aesthetics, though, believes all Art Intends to gratify the Heart: Rejecting disciplines like these, Must I, then, go the way I please? Such reasoning is only true If we accept the classic view, Which we have no right to assert, According to the Introvert. His absolute pre-supposition Is--Man creates his own condition: This maze was not divinely built, But is secreted by my guilt. The centre that I cannot find Is known to my Unconscious Mind; I have no reason to despair Because I am already there. My problem is how not to will; They move most quickly who stand still; I'm only lost until I see I'm lost because I want to be. If this should fail, perhaps I should, As certain educators would, Content myself with the conclusion; In theory there is no solution. All statements about what I feel, Like I-am-lost, are quite unreal: My knowledge ends where it began; A hedge is taller than a man." Anthropos apteros, perplexed To know which turning to take next, Looked up and wished he were a bird To whom such doubts must seem absurd. |
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16 Oct 08 - 06:20 PM (#2467730) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley it's rare now, but if anyone can, try to get a copy of 'Goddamn Gypsy' by Ronald Lee (Yanko).. a book that was published in the early 70's, but written in the 60's... much of it in Montreal... gypsies, Indians, black Muslims, separatists, refugees ,hippies... all woven into a fascinating adventure of self-discovery with many of the Montreal landmarks/backdrops from that era.... Yanko is certainly a character and is now living in Hamilton, did a couple of loose gigs with him in TO a few years ago... that's another story... |
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16 Oct 08 - 11:39 PM (#2467943) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer I checked with three antique stores and the book sells for approximately $50.00 A place I use to rest my head was a restaurant bar called the "Venus Pub Demalo"(sp.)on St. Catherine Street. Lots of good Irish music. The group I was following was called "The Cutty Sark" after that rot gut fucking terrible whiskey. However , it was cheap. |
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17 Oct 08 - 08:36 AM (#2468172) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley thanks Beer.... as I said, they're rare..... but it's a great read, Willie is the main Indian, under a different name, there's one scene where a bar clearing brawl happened at The Sir Winston Churchill Pub between the 'counter-culture' folks and a group of American Jock tourists... what a hoot... anyhow, if you ever get a copy I'll ask Yanko to sign it... he teaches a 'humanities' course at U of Toronto, and still plays sometimes with his group 'E Zhivindi Yag' (The Living Fire).... now that's some folk music you don't often hear, eg bazooki and oud with some Vlach Roma lyrics |
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17 Oct 08 - 09:35 AM (#2468217) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Thanks, Amos. Very appropriate, and nice to see that whole poem. Auden himself ranged from the sublime to the ridiculous. I always loved this bit of his doggerel: As the poets have mournfully sung, Death comes to the innocent young To the rolling in money, The screamingly funny And those that are very well hung. - W.H. Auden The Winston C Pub denizens were counter-culture? Sure, in the sense that they were MODS, effete poseurs who spent hundreds on their fashionable garb. I've always been of the second-hand clothing ilk, and still am! |
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17 Oct 08 - 09:43 AM (#2468223) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley nah John, in this particular incident our rag-tag heroes blew into the bar and were given a hard time by the manager and jocks, which resulted in a lot of broken furniture and some windows... I think the 'effete' had to get some new clothes after the dust-up... brilliant... |
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17 Oct 08 - 09:55 AM (#2468231) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon One of the effete guys, (Bob) was, in fact, a close buddy of the "Choice" and could do 300 pushups without stopping. But he sure could "dandy it up" for the Winnie, with lacey transparent shirts, etc. I used to drop by his place in the alley behind the church beside Musee des Beaux Arts for breakfast & gin on Sunday mornings. But if the alley was filled with bikes, I'd walk on. |
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17 Oct 08 - 10:03 AM (#2468236) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley don't blame you...I bet it wasn't a prayer meeting,,, there was some mean muthafuggas in that crew... |
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18 Oct 08 - 07:11 AM (#2469022) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Above the Swiss Hut lived Montreal's favourite Scottish piper Ken McKenzie. His apartment has once been a lounge or cabaret, it wasn't laid out like a residence. There was a huge terrasse which could have held twenty tables. Ken would stand on the terrasse at midnight and play his pipes. He was totally invisible there, and it was fun to peek over the edge and watch cars stop on Sherbrooke street, people get out and look around wondering where the mighty sound was coming from. The Swiss Hut was usually packed. The wooden booths were intended for 4 or 6 people, but got loaded up with 8 - 10 squashed in. One night I saw a big, bearded lonely guy with a booth all to himself. When I commented on this strange phenom, I was told: "Him? Ha! He's the Narc!" |
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18 Oct 08 - 08:02 AM (#2469043) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace The Swiss Hut was a dive. (Someday I'll pass a story on to you guys.) The Blue Lantern was another club that had its moments. One night about eight of us who had to perform next night got into some St George's (a substance devised by Lucifer himself. It was purple and it came in a bottle that said it was wine). I'm certain now that the gallon we had was from a poisoned batch. One guy woke up with his head in a toilet bowl. Anothyer with a boot print on his chording hand. Another was sleeping in the bathtub, and the fellow who had his head in the bowl may have got his head peed on a few times, because everyone was too sick to move him. All of us learned how England's saint slew the dragon. There weren't all that many weapons in that club. May have been one under the counter, but the folks who went there--other than the musicians--were a quiet peaceful group. |
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18 Oct 08 - 08:13 AM (#2469053) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon The Swiss Hut was, indeed, a dump. But Taverns in those days wouldn't serve women, and many bars wouldn't serve hippies, and it was just around the corner. Gangsters, bikers, hippies, jocks, and students all jammed in together. Not to mention an incredibly rude "tough-guy" waiter-bouncer whose name I forget. He was like a nasty dog; if you faced him down, it was okay, but if he smelled fear on you, you were doomed. He was reputed to punch people for insufficient tips, and swipe wallets from drunks. It's funny, now, bars seem a lot friendlier. I hated the place, but at the time it seemed like the only game in town. |
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18 Oct 08 - 08:48 AM (#2469068) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace Yeah. When were womwn allowed into taverns? Late 1960s? |
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18 Oct 08 - 09:05 AM (#2469086) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon It started in the 70's and was a slow process. There are still a couple of men-only Taverns. The rule was, after a certain date, all new Taverns & ones that changed ownership had to serve women, but ones that stayed in the same family didn't. So it was a slow evolution. There was a Tavern on Monkland that was men-only into the 90s, and a beer cost 75 cents, but it's now a fancy restaurant (still with the same Tavern sign) & a beer costs 6-8 bucks. I remember the rage of some guys when the TP Tav in St Laurent started serving women! "They'll put up frilly curtains and the price of beer will go way up." they cried. And they were right on both counts! Yes I remember the sawdust floors & free peanuts and the drool and spit and vomit and pee with some fondness. But not THAT much fondness. The Peel Pub still only had one washroom with a trough last time I went in some yrs ago, even though it admitted women. They had to take their chances! |
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18 Oct 08 - 12:22 PM (#2469200) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley how about that county bar 'The Blue Angel' on Stanley St., I believe 'we don't smoke marijuana in muskogee'... Ruthie and Bernie Mclean did a steady gig for years.... Mon. nites was open mic with Bob Fuller but you couldn't play anything newer than the late 50's... a waiter threaten to shoot me if I touched one of the carved wooden lamps near the booths... not sure if he was joking...didn't want to find out.... and you couldn't wear blue jeans there... |
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18 Oct 08 - 12:56 PM (#2469223) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon The Blue Angel was very "urban redneck" in those days and not hippie-friendly. I went there with Dane Lanken one night and naturally requested "Okie for Muskokie" . The band laughed and said every time hippies came in, they requested that song, but they played it anyway. A bunch of yokels at a nearby table started razzing us: "Lookit them dirty hippies" "Do you ever wash?", but we just laughed and said "That's us." "What's soap?" I was so nervy in those days, I went and sat down with them so they could see a hippie close up. Pretty soon we joked around enough that the whole thing was de-fused. I drew cartoons of them on a napkin and they even bought me a beer. |
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18 Oct 08 - 01:09 PM (#2469230) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley bobad, you may want to tell your friend's daughter to check out the Culture section of today's Mtl. Gazette.... if she can... "Montreal's Most Influential Recordings " by Juan Rodriguez.. he's been around the scene for awhile, and 'tho I would include other, personal favorites... it gives an interesting look at the evolution of the music scene there from the early 60's to present times.... I'll pass along a few titles from the 20 named... he has a short review of each record as well as the rest of the article.... it might be of interest to some around here... his criteria includes... sales, international reknown, Que. reknown, staying power, historical value, contemporary value, originality/innovation, breakthrough value,and "last and least"-his personal taste.... so here's a sample... Felix Leclerc 'Le p'tit bonheur' 1959 Donald Lautrec 'Manon, viens danser le ska' 1964 Leonard Cohen 'Songs of Leonard Cohen' 1967 Robert Charlebois 'R.C. avec Louise Forestier' 1968 Jean-Pierre Ferland 'Jaune' 1970 Michel Pagliaro 'J'entends Frapper' 1972 Diane Dufresne 'Tiens-toe ben j'arrive' 1972 Contraction 'Contraction' 1972 Ville Emard Blues Band 'VEBB s'en vient-is coming' 1973 Beau Dommage 'B.D. 1974' Harmonium 'L'Heptade' 1978 Kate and Anna McGarrigle 'The French Record' 1980 also mentioned are Rene Lussier, Celine Dion,Jean Leloup, Lhasa de Sela, Daniel Belanger, Les Cowboys Fringants, Arcade Fire.... anyhow, I would have personally included Jesse Winchester, Oscar Peterson, Gino Vanelli, Maynard Ferguson, Paul Bley, Walter Rossi, Mahogony Rush, Murdoch, Dunn and a few others but I'm glad that I 'crossed the Main' way back when and recorded with Contraction and Ville Emard.... not bad for a young Anglais.. |
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19 Oct 08 - 09:23 AM (#2469837) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Bobad. If you haven't already suggest the post "Little known '60s Folk Singers" as an added bonus. Lots of stories there. Adrien |
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19 Oct 08 - 04:40 PM (#2470195) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley good idea Beer, a wealth of info... Today I dug out my copy of Ronald Lee's book, from a box in the attic... so colourful, then again so was that era in Mtl... here's a brief excerpt for any Swiss Hut vets... "We got in the car and drove over to the Swiss Hut. We drank beer, Marie wine. Kolia, normally a sober character, liked to have his periodic drinking bouts and Jilko, like most Hungarian Gypsies, liked his shasto or mulatni. By nine o'clock a large group had assembled around the semi-circular table on the 'beat' side and Jilko's fiddle, along with somebody's mouth organ, provided us with musical accompaniment for the old French Canadian folk songs like "C'est l'Aviron" Then Jilko played Gypsy music while I got up and danced while the assembled painters, sculptors, writers yelled their shouts of encouragement. ... Marie started dancing on top of the table. Her high heel shoes made a staccato on the table top, spilling glasses and crushing the packages of cigarettes. The crowd clapped their hands and her skirt twirled , rose and showed us the stiletto on her thigh.. 'Christ' I thought happily. 'What savages we are' I realized suddenly, that we were outlaws, not because we were not Canadians, but because we were. Here were people of all origins, almost all of them born in Canada, barring the odd immigrant, enjoying themselves in an old frontier style get-together within the sight of the skyscrapers and the synthetic entertainment of commercialized culture." .....'Yes, Canada might bask in its Anglo-Canadian myth, Toronto the good, Ottawa the bureaucratic, Vancouver the isolated, and Halifax the deprived. They were all English speaking cities. But here was Le Vieux Montreal, a wayward child of confederation. She could act like a passionate French whore or a militant fishwife ready to lead the mobs to the barricades of revoluton.' from Goddam Gypsy circa 'late sixties' |
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19 Oct 08 - 04:58 PM (#2470205) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace One of the things worth mentioning is the diversity of songs that made it to the charts in Montreal--independent of NYC and London radio plays. I'm reminded that "Er Es Tu" by Mochedades, "Vien faire un tour chez moi" by Renee Claude and "Io Vagabondo" by (here I'm stumped) were played on darned near all radio stations in the city, regardless of language. Montreal has never ceased to amaze me in that regard. . |
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19 Oct 08 - 08:23 PM (#2470336) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley me too, Peace, me too.. since I pretty well 'cut my musical teeth' in this city.... One week I'd be playing with Renee Claude at Sir George U. protesting the LG2/James Bay project, and within the next week or two, sitting in with some folk-singer by the name of Murdoch at the Karma Coffee House... exciting times... and judging from Rodriguez's article yesterday...there's still a strong originality about this place.. "The Montreal scene is a weirdly wonderful polyglut unique in North America. It is at once comprised of many distinct sounds appreciated by an audience uniquely positioned between American, French and European stlyes. Constantly aware of the differences between two languages and cultures, it's outsider music..... The Montreal music scene is out there in left field- more so than any other city in North America- an eclectic hybrid that thrives in a pop culture that's small enough to attain genuine intimacy with an audience. The local culture celebrates "la difference" between Anglo, European and so-called world-music styles, but with a natural affinity toward all of them....." MTL Gazette Oct.18/08 |
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19 Oct 08 - 09:28 PM (#2470382) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Do any of you guys recall the mandolin player who couldn't talk? I don't recall his name, but he was a Montrealer, had a terrible stutter & a pal who would interpret for him. Frank Wakefield, on one of his many visits, brought him up on stage and played backup guitar for this guy. A gentlemanly gesture, but then Frank (an amiable but unrepentant redneck) would say "Who could believe a Jew-boy could play so good?" The guy was nonetheless thrilled. |
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20 Oct 08 - 03:25 AM (#2470498) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace I miss Dilallo burgers. I have been having dreams about the things. The first burger was when I was 13 in Ville Emard. That may have been Mr Dilallo's first store. He sponsored a football team in a four-team league. We'd go there after games. Sorry for the thread drift. I'm more sorry I can't have a Dilallo burger, extra peppers. |
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20 Oct 08 - 07:45 AM (#2470599) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,bankley and you can finish it off with a 'steamie' from the Montreal Pool Room or a smoked meat from Ben's, a special at Wilensky's, blintzes from the Mazurka, a dozen bagels from the Fairmont Bagel Bakery, and a quart of DOW..... okay, hold the DOW,,,, |
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20 Oct 08 - 08:03 AM (#2470611) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Silver Amusements on the Main! The Special was a steamed hot dog all dressed with huge greasy hand-cut fries lined up (balanced) on top of it, and it cost 15 cents! Two specials and a coke was a huge meal, under fifty cents to get you through a long day! (Called Silver Amusements cuz it had pin-ball machines too, but most people went there for the Specials.) |
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20 Oct 08 - 10:01 AM (#2470697) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Little Hawk Boy, sounds like Montreal was THE place to be! I missed it entirely. (sob!) I was mostly in Toronto. |
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20 Oct 08 - 11:11 AM (#2470762) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon PT and I lived in a basement flat on Towers. The house is still there, the only "house" on that side of the street. Instead of cockroaches, we had exotic black beetle-things that would run up your leg at breakfast. The floor in the cupboards were just the bare earth. There was one small window in four-and-a-half rooms, and no sense of day and night. Lots of folks hung out there, and crashed. To leave your bed unguarded was to find someone else sleeping in it an hour later. Geez, what a buncha bums! One day PT was annoyed at me and flung a pot of week-old leftover spaghetti at my head. It stuck, pasted on the wall, still circular. We decided that it constituted ART, and it stayed there for months! I can't say this lifestyle was entirely 60's. A few years ago, I dropped by my son's place; co-operative housing. There was a three-legged table in the kitchen, upside down, a pile of dirty dishes, cases of beer empties up to the ceiling. On the floor, a mixture of clean and dirty clothing, of four different denizens, that ran down a hallway. I've never been more jealous! |
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20 Oct 08 - 04:58 PM (#2471127) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,bankley ....and we survived and can stil raise a little hell sometimes.... |
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20 Oct 08 - 08:04 PM (#2471294) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Use to play in the Verdun Fastball league in the late 60/70ties at Willibroad Park, Melrose, Burland and Douglas. After the games the team would make their way to the Monk Tavern in Ville Emard. In 67 we were paying 10 cents (maybe 15 but I seem to remember 10) for a 16oz. glass. The tables we would put all together and discuss the results of the game. Upon leaving around 11 p.m it was always a stop at the corner of Monk and Allard for a delicious water melting Dilallo hamburg with the hot peppers. There is a Metro station at that Hamburger spot now, but just down the street they are located and not cheep any more. ad. |
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20 Oct 08 - 10:41 PM (#2471401) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Hi Kids: File this under: "No, you're not being ripped off these days...Hee Hee Hee" The year: 1970. Me and my girlfriend, who I now fondly remember as "The Anti-Wife", (be-atchy! Yoy!) Anyhooch, we're looking around for an apartment on Esplanade. She's tired and wants to go, I say one more to check out. There's a small sign on the door telling us to go to Bagg St. to see a "Mrs. C." We talk. The place is 7 rooms. By rooms I mean the place stretched from Esplanade to St Urbain.(almost) Included is a full finished basement, with bar. I used to ride my bike indoors and rehearse bands down there. The rent? $150/month...HEATED. We had 16 cats. I was making $90/week and we used to have drinks, take cabs to Chinatown, go to a movie, and head off to Dunn's for cheesecake afterward... The girlfriend comes home from a Christmas party. A bit drunk, uh, no... bombed. I hear fumbling of keys near the door. Then I look to the side of the bed to where she crawled. She wakes me, then falls on the floor. I galantly grab her by the ankles and drag her to the porceline...LOVE, I tell you, it was LOVE(tough Love) Bad girl, Bad, Bad girl... I then, even MORE galantly, lift her into the bed. She passes out/sleeps for about 20 minutes, then wakes up screaming..."I'm BLIND! I'm BLIND!" (I had taken off her glasses.) If you got to know me, I'm kind, no really... Then one day, I notice water coming from a light fixture. Now, I'm not a rocket scientist, but I know that's not a good thing. I go upstairs to find the Greeks running around like squirrels with mops. They point ...Upstairs. 3rd floor. Turns out the girlfriend of this guy turned on the bath, then "took a little nap" while the tub was filling up...Messy... The Greeks held their dances on Sundays. I used to watch the ceiling move up and down about an inch and a half... But that was then, and this is now. See yas..BR Names withheld to protect the young, drunk, and hey, it was 1970...God Bless you wildwoman, wherever you are... You gots to have more than one woman in this world... Yeah, you gots to have more than one woman in this world... Cause one just wants to thrill ya, the others might try to kill ya... So you gots to have more than one woman in this world...(song idea, never completed, circa 1970...BR) |
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21 Oct 08 - 10:38 AM (#2471797) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Damn this thread! I keep hoping it'll drop off the bottom, so I won't be tempted to add ONE more memory. Ah well... When I left Towers street, there was 2 months before I could get a place in the Birmingham (corner Bleury & de Mais.), so I stayed in a co-op on Prospect Street. It had been, once, a grand Westmount house, and it is now, again. But in-between it was a dump. $280/month for the whole place, with 7 folks at $40 apiece. But after a few weeks people started dropping out without finding replacements, leaving me and another guy, total 2. It was hopeless finding paying people, so the other guy, out of boredom and loneliness put up a notice: CRASH HERE (address) FREE. Soon the 2 became 22, with 20 freeloaders! There were sleeping bags everywhere, and one gal started living in the bathroom, the only room with a lock! They were a surly, ungrateful lot.. ..."Hey man, you gonna make me some breakfast??" It was like Dylan's lines... "Fistfights in the kitchen, it's enough to make me cry!" The fact that the upstairs toilet started leaking into the downstairs hall didn't help either. After a few days, my room in the Birm became available. I packed up and left. As I went out the door I surveyed the somnolent bodies, and noticed a large rotting bag of potatoes under the kitchen table, left over from its "commune" days. It was the liveliest thing in the place. |
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21 Oct 08 - 08:41 PM (#2472356) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley "comme je vous avez dit, on a passay au traver d'a toot ca, pi est encore dans l'vie okay toolmonde....ensemble pi est encore dans la vie" vive la companie...... |
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21 Oct 08 - 09:57 PM (#2472401) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peter T. If Rick Fielding were still with us, I'm sure he would add spice to this thread. I was in Montreal in 67, and what I most remember as a kid apart from Expo was all the talk about this guy Trudeau..... yours, Peter T. |
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21 Oct 08 - 10:21 PM (#2472411) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer How true Peter, how true. ad. |
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23 Oct 08 - 04:53 PM (#2474092) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: The Lorax Hey Everyone - Allow me to introduce myself: the aforementioned Stephanie, professional student and collector of anything 60s related. I can't begin to tell you all how much I've enjoyed your posts. It's been quite the trip. Thanks Bobad for starting this up. And thanks to all of you who have shared memories. Thanks also to Azizi, who gave me the rare pleasure of acknowledgeing the historical value of my research. Beleive me, us historians don't hear that enough!! Rest assured, if I make it through the whole gruelling process, there will most definitely be a book published about all of this. And if any of you want in on the fame and glory (!) or wwould rather tell your stories under pseudonyms, I'm all ears. Seriously, this stuff is gold and will make all the difference in the world to my project. It's your story. Help me tell it! For the record: I really do beleive that the Sixties were an incredibly important time in the history of our nation, and of the world. There's a reason 'the Sixties' have often been reduced to nostalgic mush or even political liability (think Obama and the Ayers connection) - that reason is because it was an incredibly potent time. To tell the 'real' story of the Sixties is to acknowledge the real revolutionary possibilities of that time - and not only politically, but culturally, socially, personnaly, sexually. Okay, I'll stop talking for now (Bobad knows the dangers of getting me started). Just thought I'd introduce myeslf. Do you all mind if I ask questions? If I ask for details? If i use you all as my personal gurus? John - you mentioned you should be a tour guide - if you were at all serious, I'd love to take you up on that offer. Of course, if any of You want to ask ME questions, please don't hesitate to message me, either. I'm looking forward to getting to know all you Mudcat people, and hearing your fabulous stories! Peace, - The Lorax (aka Stephanie) |
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23 Oct 08 - 05:15 PM (#2474115) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Stephanie, thanks for the feedback and joining this great site. Adrien |
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23 Oct 08 - 07:11 PM (#2474236) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad Hi Steph, welcome to the Mudcat but be careful, it can become addictive. |
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23 Oct 08 - 09:40 PM (#2474347) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace Good by me. Welcome. |
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24 Oct 08 - 07:26 AM (#2474667) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Lorax - Why not? Could be a real nostalgia-fest for me and my own family is a bit bored of my tales. If there's a not-to-cold day before the snows! Send me a PM. |
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24 Oct 08 - 09:34 AM (#2474806) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,bankley have fun Stephanie, amusez vous bien...bonne luck and good chance... "mons pays c'est ne pas un pays, ...sta une aut'affaire " |
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24 Oct 08 - 12:59 PM (#2475008) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon A Thought about the Counterculture. The Counterculture could not have existed without a culture to be counter to. That is, a repressive society that made rebellion inevitable. Nowadays, a wander through downtown Montreal will reveal Stetsons and Berets, long & short hair, beards & bald chins, suits and saris and birkhas and birkenstocks. But in the 50s, there were tightly observed limits. Montreal West, where I spent some of my childhood, had, in the fifties, six (6) barbers!!! Now, despite double the population, there's only one, Rocco, and he only works a few afternoons a week! Yes, back then, folks got their hair cut weekly (!!), and woe to him who missed a week. Obloquy, and possible arrest! Nowadays, I get my hair cut in May, and that's it! In other words, to understand the 60s one must understand the 50s as well. They were both pretty awful, but the 60s had a better quality of awfulness. |
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24 Oct 08 - 01:50 PM (#2475054) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Amos Well said, John. The same is true of the US where the roots of the BEats, Hippies, FLower Children and miscellaneous others can be found in the schmaltz of 1950's radio (For you and I have a guardian angel....) at its zenith, just before the major breakouts of Blue Suede Shoes, ROck-Around The Clock, and Houn' Dawg, and the remarkable social oppression and uniformity which bred such sentimental hallucinations. A |
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24 Oct 08 - 02:37 PM (#2475099) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: C. Ham Do any of you guys recall the mandolin player who couldn't talk? I don't recall his name, but he was a Montrealer, had a terrible stutter & a pal who would interpret for him. David Tinkoff. He died a few years ago after spending several years in hospital after being hit by a car in Ottawa. |
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24 Oct 08 - 02:59 PM (#2475121) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon CHam... I'm sorry to hear that! Yes, the name's familiar now. I hope he had a good musical life! Thanks for the info, even if it is bad news! _john |
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25 Oct 08 - 01:50 AM (#2475606) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: C. Ham Info on David Tinkoff's life and final years |
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25 Oct 08 - 07:48 AM (#2475726) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Thanks for posting this C. Ham Adrien |
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25 Oct 08 - 09:42 AM (#2475786) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Yes, I remember David...Rest in Peace... bob |
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25 Oct 08 - 12:40 PM (#2475905) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,number 6 "They were both pretty awful, but the 60s had a better quality of awfulness. " I luv that line ... thanks john f. biLL |
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07 Nov 08 - 05:47 PM (#2487991) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon Hate to revive this thread but I just found this pic, and , well, ain't it sweet... me&meg |
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07 Nov 08 - 08:59 PM (#2488098) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Great pictures John. Thanks for sharing them. Beer (adrien) |
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08 Nov 08 - 03:39 PM (#2488601) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley Hey John, which one is you ? |
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08 Nov 08 - 06:27 PM (#2488716) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon ...the pretty one, natch!.... |
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08 Nov 08 - 06:41 PM (#2488722) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Fun pix John. Thanks...BR |
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24 Nov 08 - 10:31 PM (#2500896) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: The Lorax Hey all - I just posted some followup questions in a new thread "Montreal Sixties". Hope you can help me out! Best, The Lorax. |
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26 Nov 08 - 05:07 AM (#2501849) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,flo penny re: goddam gypsy I was the "linda" to ron's story, back then in NDG. It made a good read. wonder what ever happened to our friend louis thomas and his family. Reading the previous blogs brought back memories thanks a bunch "the first" |
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26 Nov 08 - 11:10 AM (#2502098) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,bankley cool... R.Lee told me, about 2 weeks ago, that 'Goddam Gypsy' is set to be re-published under it's original title "The Living Fire" by Magoria Books out of Toronto.... there's also a Romani-English dictionary which will follow.... and he got a new bazouki with lots of decorations ! |
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26 Nov 08 - 12:37 PM (#2502172) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad I just put in a request for the book through our local library, I'm looking forward to reading it. |
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26 Nov 08 - 04:38 PM (#2502348) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley I'm sure you'll enjoy it... back in '96 I was doing some odd jobs for a friend out in the country. He had a lot of sheds, workshop buildings and in one of these were piles of books, among other things. I didn't pay much attention, but one day a book on top of one of the piles caught my eye. 'Goddam Gypsy' with a young Ronald Lee staring back from a well-used cover. So I took it with me and really enjoyed it. I had never heard of the author nor did I know if he was still living or what. A couple of months later I ran into Willie Dunn in Ottawa, after not seeing him for decades. One day after a get together at Stormin' Norman's place, he asked me , out of the blue if I knew Ronald Lee.... and proceeded to tell me about how they once dropped a gallon of wine from a 3rd floor landing into the foyer of an apartment building where they had come looking for a party. I guess they got out of there fast, without the wine... So about a month later I was at Willie's and he passes the phone over to me, and it's Ron Lee on the other end. We've been friends ever since and opened a lot of doors in the Roma community for me.. It's kind of interesting how it went from finding the book to talking to the author within the span of 3 months, without consciously trying..... could be some Gypsy/Micmac mojo.... good medicine all around |
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26 Nov 08 - 09:34 PM (#2502562) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Thanks Ron, enjoyed that story. Adrien |
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27 Nov 08 - 05:19 PM (#2503140) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Anyone remember the name of the club that was located on St. Catherine's Street in the basement of the Metropolitan. |
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27 Nov 08 - 07:02 PM (#2503184) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad Do you mean the strip joint which was called the (Café?) Metropole? |
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27 Nov 08 - 11:39 PM (#2503288) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer God No. Although I admit of visiting it once. Is that the one where the gals use to dance in a cage? |
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28 Nov 08 - 09:02 AM (#2503481) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley a cage ? to keep the ladies in or the 'clients' out ? |
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28 Nov 08 - 09:26 AM (#2503497) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer If I could I would up load a picture of Norman and a friend who was visiting in the summer of 67. I took the picture of the two of them saluting each other with beer glasses, and yes there is a cage behind them with a fair young lass. Another picture I have taken on the same day is 3 Hare Krishna's doing their music thing in a small Park located across St. Catherine's Street from "The Bay" store. I forget the name of the Park, but behind the Krishna's is Union Street and a sign indicating where a horrific fire took place and 37 lives were lost. The Bluebird Club downstairs and the Wagon Wheel upstairs. |
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28 Nov 08 - 12:14 PM (#2503612) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST "Phillip's Square" |
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28 Nov 08 - 12:16 PM (#2503614) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,bankley that was me.... I hung out in that place absorbing the show |
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29 Nov 08 - 09:18 PM (#2504131) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer refresh |
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21 Dec 08 - 08:39 AM (#2521290) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST I'm trying to recall the names of two cafe-type restaurants near McGill University that I frequented in the 1960's - one, I think was called the Cafe Suisse (?) and had two floors located on McGill College Ave. served a delicious potage St. Germain with its lunch for about $2. The other was on Stanley Stree - maybe the Continental - we walked down some stairs and could see the passersby through the windows as we ate. any help would be appreciated |
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22 Dec 08 - 09:38 PM (#2522656) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Rick Whitelaw Wow! Bob, you certainly stirred up some (needed and wanted) memories with your post. All those people! I feel honored to be mentioned in their midst. Rick. |
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22 Dec 08 - 10:25 PM (#2522676) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,bankley Hi Rick 'The Flaming Fret' Whitelaw... are you still 'stranger than dangerous'? just did a session with Michel Dion last week... R. |
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23 Dec 08 - 08:25 PM (#2523434) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,biff I was at Expo 67 with my family and we actually stayed a few nights at Habitat (experimental housing units) on the island. This was a cultural height of the mid century. Many art exhibits and people open to cultural exchange. At night the place glittered. I was so young it is hard to remember. We were happier then. At one exhibit we all looked at mirrors and a narrator told us that "the beast is man." I was too young to understand. There was very little fear and it was like a constant explosion of art. |
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23 Dec 08 - 08:27 PM (#2523436) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,biff The American exhibit was to be noted for its emphasis on space achievements and its giganticism, but as a child I found myself disappointed and wanting more from the exhibit or at least something different. |
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23 Dec 08 - 08:47 PM (#2523448) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad biff, there are some fine reminiscences of Expo on this thread: Memories Of Expo 67. |
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23 Dec 08 - 08:53 PM (#2523450) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,biff yeah I've been there, thanks.. wish I could write better..some European nation's art exhibit where every figure was a skeleton..very disturbing to me. I've often thought that Expo 67 was the closest the mainstream ever got to psychedelia back then...better then anything now. |
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23 Dec 08 - 08:57 PM (#2523452) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer biff, I was 20 at the time and what a time it was. Adrien |
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23 Dec 08 - 09:57 PM (#2523478) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,bankley I believe that the US pavilion (Bucky's dome) is the only one left standing. The skeletal frame survived at least.... |
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23 Dec 08 - 10:33 PM (#2523493) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad The former pavilion of France still stands but it has been transmogrified into a casino. |
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09 Jan 09 - 11:13 AM (#2536068) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Thanks to Bobad I think I have accomplished something today. Hare Krishna's in Phillip's Square Montreal 1967/69 http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ad4-fhV4aa_I-D4HYpmmMA?authkey=CdCf1hATqDA&feat=directlink Adrien |
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09 Jan 09 - 11:15 AM (#2536072) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer The second picture was taken on the same day with Ben on the left and brother Norman on the right. More I think about it I do believe it was 1969. |
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09 Jan 09 - 02:24 PM (#2536303) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: gnu Very charitable, supporting struggling young women in the arts. |
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12 Jan 09 - 12:08 AM (#2537832) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer refresh |
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12 Jan 09 - 03:34 PM (#2538210) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley funny, the Krishna drummer in the middle was Mark Buchwald aka Baradraj used to be the grubby singer for Albert Failey Blues Band...before he converted.. a talented artist (brushes) who made it on the 'Give Peace a Chance' recording when John and Yoko were in Montreal in '69....engineered by Andre Perry and Stormin' Norman with hair and sideburns... that's too funny thanks beer |
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12 Jan 09 - 09:29 PM (#2538525) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer That is interesting Ron. How in the hell you can remember all that is great. Yep, brother Norm had hair once. Past his shoulders at one time as well. Like many of us. Adrien |
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13 Jan 09 - 02:09 PM (#2538947) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon This is from my 1970 comic, Pipkin Papers. The whole thing is on line if anyone's interested. http://www.weldonalley.ca/comics/pipkinsmall/pip22.html Bankley- The Krishnas were everywhere in those days, but I never see them now. What happened? Did that guy ever put on a suit and start selling life insurance, or go back to playing, or what? In other words, can you escape? |
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13 Jan 09 - 03:22 PM (#2539037) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,bankley thanks for the link John.. fine entertainment for a winter's day (or 2)...I'd love to work on something with you down the road... The Krishna's are still around, but not as visible... they have a few restaurants in different cities... I don't know what happened to Mark, lost track of him and a few others whom I knew... there was a power struggle when their Master died, also copyright litigation against them for bootlegging Disney characters.... and you don't want to mess with Mickey... that would be plain Goofy... they also had a heavily armed commune in West Va... so I guess Woodstock became Altamont for them too... those US devotees didn't mess around... Can you escape ?.. sure, but it ain't easy...like any tight sect there's a lot of guilt thrown at the 'fallen one'.... nobody's encouraged to think for themselves... but they don't have exclusive rights on that... anyhow, they were colourful, I liked some of the music and culture... the food wasn't too healthy, lots of white rice, white flour, white sugar.... 'white on' I suppose.... |
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11 Mar 09 - 04:51 PM (#2586637) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Dave Gallant Probably to early for some of you folks but in 65, I used to hang out at the Blue Lantern on Stanley St. It was owned by a fellow named Manny who was, I believe, managing Penny Lang at the time. It was a great spot; a tiny little basement joint. It became the first New Penelope when Gary Eisenkraft took it over. I was a scruffy 17 year old with a cheap harmony guitar. I got to sing once in a while on nights when they had people like Richie Havens, Buckley and David Blue as headliners. That's when I first encountered Bruce "Peace" Murdoch, Willie Dunn and Sean Gagnieer. Put together a little blues band there with John Cousineau and his brother. It only lasted a few months. I worked for a few months at Montreal Engineering in the mail room with a young Juan Rodrigez. He was just starting to put out the first issues of his POPSICLE mag there. All in all, it was a very formative time for me, particlularly musically. Hope this stirs up some memories. Dave Gallant |
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11 Mar 09 - 05:07 PM (#2586646) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Hi Dave. Glad you made it to Mudcat. I am sure you are going to get some worthy responses. Adrien (friend of Ken's) |
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11 Mar 09 - 05:59 PM (#2586690) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley Hey Dave, I used to knock around with Juan in the 70's... he's a fine writer still doing occasional entertainment spreads for the Gazette. He did an article about a band I formed in the 70's called Koma.. it ended up on page 3 of the Mtl. Star in the political section... something about the 1st Anglo to play at the Hotel Iroquois, a hotbed for separatist artists and characters...' I also used to hang around and played some at The Totem Pole... it's where I 1st saw Murdoch, Gagnier and the usual suspects of the time..there was also a band there called 'Sidetrack' who worked a lot in NYC.at 'Whiskey a go-go' I believe... Alan Brown played guitar with them... we became friends later on... I might have seen you playing as well, but it was over 40 yrs. ago.... a great time indeed.. |
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11 Mar 09 - 06:07 PM (#2586694) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Dave Gallant Don't know the Totem Pole. Remember Sidetrack playing the Penelope on Stanley once....small stag....hot music. Peace is coming to my place on Vancouver Island for a visit and a couple of gigs in April. It will be good to see him after 40 or so years....a lot of catching up to do.....Adrien I was born in Sackville NB and most of my family originated in PEI as you probably know. My wife has traced us Gallants back to the 1600's Ron, just great what you've done for Bruce....great CD Take care. Dave |
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11 Mar 09 - 06:57 PM (#2586725) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley thanks Dave... full circle...labour of love....I knew that kid had talent! The Totem Pole was the same bldg as The Blue Lantern and Penelope.. I did a walkabout around the area about 3 yrs. ago.. downstairs is now a 'Subway' restaurant... I didn't go in.. nobody was playing.. oh well, you can tune a guitar but you can't tuna fish.. Have fun with BM on the Island... I usually get out there every two years to hang with music friends in Nanaimo. Langstaff, Tibo et al |
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11 Mar 09 - 09:55 PM (#2586834) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Dave Gallant I know the Dirty Flannel Dawg, but have never net Langstaff Hope we can connect if you get out this way. Dave |
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11 Mar 09 - 10:03 PM (#2586840) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer With a name like Gallant,I knew you had to be from the Maritimes. And an acadian as well. Adrien |
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11 Mar 09 - 10:45 PM (#2586869) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley Dave, I'll make a point to do that... and it's when... not if did some recording for Laura at Lester's studio last time, I've never seen anyone with more Guild guitars... 'Trinitude' is a nice trio as well.. |
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12 Mar 09 - 01:13 PM (#2587279) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Dave Gallant Yeah Ron....I guess when I was there, the Totem Pole was a Disco complete with a dancer in the bay window. There were rooms on the top floor where we used to hang out. I also remember there was a place across the street called Pepe's. and a small restaurant next door to the Penelope, the name of which I can't remember. During the winter months, the owner used to take pity on me every now and then and bring me in for a plate of pasta and a bottle of Brio.....way cool. |
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12 Mar 09 - 03:34 PM (#2587384) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace I got fed there a few times, too. |
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12 Mar 09 - 03:46 PM (#2587394) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Dave Gallant Yeah....I just loved that Brio..an Italian (I believe) softdrink. Gotta say how amazing it is to me how via this website we discover how really interconnected our lives are....just freaking amazing It's so great to "meet" you all..what a small world |
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12 Mar 09 - 04:06 PM (#2587406) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Dave Gallant Getting back to the purpose of this thread, does anyone remember the "Black Bottom" and Nelson Simons? |
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12 Mar 09 - 08:57 PM (#2587653) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley of course.... Nelson was probably the most un-famous jazz guitar giants on the planet... I saw Nelson last in the mid-90's.. He had just recorded a cd for Justin Time Records.... and was playing a nice resto-bar on Place Jacques Carter at the same time as the Jazz Fest.. Whenever some of the guitar 'names' were in town, like Benson, they'd want to go see Nelson after their gig...leave the limo waiting nearby while they got down.... anyway, Nelson was nervous about going back home to play in Halifax after being away for 30 yrs.. he didn't like the attention and would have just as soon slipped in unannounced.. that's Nelson..... with his weird-ass custom Gretsch and chords that I could never name...never got the wide spread recognition that I feel he deserved... hell, he couldn't get a gig at the Jazzfest for years and years.....and he lived there all year long, doin' his thing.. he had a stroke a few years ago and stopped playing ..his brother Ivan died in the early 90's, I believe.... here's to Mr. Nelson Symonds |
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12 Mar 09 - 09:00 PM (#2587654) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace Brio IS Italian. It was available at The Italian Store in Edmonton last I looked. |
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12 Mar 09 - 09:01 PM (#2587656) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley just found out that he died this past Oct... RIP.. |
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12 Mar 09 - 09:03 PM (#2587657) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace Went to the Black Bottom a few times when I was 15 or 16, back in 1963. Saw the man thereand he was great (NS). |
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12 Mar 09 - 09:33 PM (#2587674) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: C. Ham Ron, Nelson and Ivan Symonds were cousins, not brothers. |
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12 Mar 09 - 10:05 PM (#2587685) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad Nelson Symonds held court at Cafe La Boheme on Guy street in the late 60s early 70s. I had the pleasure of hearing him play there on many an occasion. |
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12 Mar 09 - 11:49 PM (#2587734) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Dave Gallant Sorry to hear that he's past. Was the CD for justintime his only recording? What was it called and is it available in any way? Your right, he never did get the recognition he deserved. |
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13 Mar 09 - 12:51 AM (#2587755) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Dave Gallant I mentioned John Cousineau a few posts up. Anyone got any info on him? Believe it or not John Pimm and Rick metcalfe from the Rabble ended up here in Sooke where I live. Pimm is still here but I think Metcalfe is back in Ottawa. First saw those guys at the Bonnaventure curling rink when I was still in highschool. (Marymount - I lived in NDG) |
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13 Mar 09 - 09:20 AM (#2587922) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley Thanks C.Ham... NS has a myspace page... I'll check around for other recordings... The Rabble ! a great band.. really innovative, I knew Brian Robillard, the 1st drummer I saw without the front skin on his bass drum... The Influence with Walter Rossi were cookers.. |
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13 Mar 09 - 10:23 AM (#2587961) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad I too used to see the Rabble at the Bonaventure Curling Club on Cote de Liesse, those Saturday summer concerts were a major venue for local bands in the 60's. Some other groups I recall are JB and The Playboys, Bartholomew plus 3, MG and The Escorts, the Monks (complete with robes), and the MCs, local DJs Dave Boxer and Dean Hagopian. The Rabble stood out from the others with their original and creative song writing and playing. I have recently obtained the two albums they released which were recently re-released on a local Quebec label, Disques Merite. Their music still stands up, for the most part. They are talking about putting out some new stuff, another 60s resurrection. They have a MySpace page the Rabble where one can sample a few songs. |
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13 Mar 09 - 10:38 AM (#2587970) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Dave Gallant Mike Gauthier was in my class in my final year of highschool. Don't forget the Haunted. John Pimm and I are friends here in Sooke BC and have had the opportunity of doing a number of gigs together. Boy is this thread bring back some memories. |
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13 Mar 09 - 10:58 AM (#2587980) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: meself John Pimm - I somehow know that name - he must have lived in Toronto at some point in the '70s? |
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13 Mar 09 - 11:03 AM (#2587987) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad Yes of course, The Haunted, remembered them just after posting, they too have had their work re-released. They were the "Stones" to JB and The Playboys' "Beatles". |
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13 Mar 09 - 11:25 AM (#2588014) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon The last bunch of posts are filled with names and places I don't know. But wayyy back someone mentioned Alan Brown. Did he have an older brother Chris? And for a while have a short-lived band with Dane Lanken and Bob Pressner? Did he work for Johnny Jellybean? And, most importantly, did the sounds of their band once come out of Johnny Jellybean's Squawk Box? |
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13 Mar 09 - 11:28 AM (#2588017) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Dave Gallant For meself....John Pimm was in the Rabble. I don't know if he lived in Toronto and I can't ask him as he is wintering in Costa Rica at present. I know he's always done music as a career full time so he has been around. |
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13 Mar 09 - 11:40 AM (#2588035) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley I know Alan had an older brother..not sure of his name or the possible Ted Ziegler connection.. "When the Lads come a-marching" schalllp ! Alan Nichols was the lead singer for JB and the Playboys.. he went on to do Hair on Broadway, then got into screenwriting and acting in several Robert Altman films...parts in Slapshot, Nashville, The Wedding etc.... also directed the excellent out of Hell' by Meatloaf.. ran into him in Westmount in the 80's... he was thinking of moving to Vermont.. a very talented and nice man... |
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13 Mar 09 - 11:45 AM (#2588041) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley yeah Pimm moved to Toronto after The Rabble broke up.... he wanted to see if he could make it as a guitar player, since most of the Rabble guitar work was done by Harris and Metcalfe.... he did really well for himself in that city... glad he's still at it... |
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13 Mar 09 - 11:47 AM (#2588044) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: KenM I'm late to this thread.....Adrien told me about it on the phone last night. It sure brings back alot of memories. Like Dave Gallant, I remember the Blue Lantern and the New Penelope back in the mid-sixties. Right next door to the Stanley Tavern as I recall. We used to eat at an Italian restaurant on St. Catherine after the last set at the Blue Lantern....can't remember the name but it was on the south side of the street between Stanley and Peel. I remember that God-awful Swiss Hut, as well. Some of us posting on this thread are lucky we got out of that place alive. Stephanie.....there was a pretty active counter-culture scene on Alymer Street, as I recall.....part of the McGill ghetto. I was a student at Sir George during the computer center riot and can still recall standing on Bishop St. watching the computer cards cascading down......then the fire started and the firemen started breaking windows and glass started falling......what a time!! I think I still have a tattered copy of the book that was written about that incident, it was called "The Computer Center Party"......I'll have to check when I get home tonight. Keep the memories flowing..... |
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13 Mar 09 - 11:57 AM (#2588057) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: KenM I was still living in Verdun for part of that time. Used to catch the last Wellington Street bus (sometime around 3 a.m.) at the corner of Peel and St. Catherine. Later I moved to a place on a little street that ran west off Guy, between de Maisoneuve and Sherbrooke, can't remember the name......all I remember is that a young woman who lived in the same apertment building got murdered one night in late 1969 or early 1970.......scared the shit out of me. Anybody on here remember Marshall Hopkins? He was a champion swimmer and went to Verdun High the same time Murdoch and I were there. He went out to Simon Fraser on a swim scholarship but dropped out after a year and then went to Sir George. Spent most of his time smoking dope, though. He would periodically show up on my doorstep of that place near Guy Street looking for a place to crash. |
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13 Mar 09 - 12:13 PM (#2588071) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley Wasn't Marshall the singer for Cannabali ? He was a character...spaced-out, childlike... very open... I knew the keyboard player well, David Fowler...who showed up in Montreal with a Vancouver band called 'The Family Dog'... he stayed in Mtl many years before moving to Toronto and playing with reggae co-op band The Satallites.... David and I worked together during the Mtl. period... |
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13 Mar 09 - 12:18 PM (#2588076) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: meself Yeah, I remember vaguely - everything's a little fuzzy from back then - this guitarist John Pimm being around a communal house I was living in for awhile. He was a friend of friends of my older brother (I was just a Hippie-In-Training). I remember being struck by his name, which is the only reason I remembered it at all: sounded like a character from Treasure Island ... |
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13 Mar 09 - 01:48 PM (#2588140) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: KenM Yup, that's the same guy, Ron......you nailed it....spaced-out and childlike. I woonder whatever happened to him? |
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13 Mar 09 - 02:10 PM (#2588150) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad Ken, I was perhaps standing next to you on the day of the computer massacre, that's where I also watched it from. In one of those strange convergences that often happen, I ended up knowing quite well one the female participants and also working with another fellow who was one of the arrested, we had both been hired by the father of the female's roommate. I also, much later, got to know Perry Anderson, the central figure against whom the charges of racism sparked the riot. |
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13 Mar 09 - 04:29 PM (#2588256) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace "I mentioned John Cousineau a few posts up. Anyone got any info on him?" John was the guy who taught me the basics of guitar. We had a trio called "The Triads" and we played rock a la Ventures. Did some gigs back then. John was the lead guitarist, Yves (John's brother) was the drummer and I was rhythm guitar. John was 15 and Yves and I were 12 ansd 13 respectively. We did some gigs and had lots of fun. I think John was about two years older than me and he later wrote a song that was recorded by Richie Havens entitled "Sandy" which was written for a dear friend of mine who is still living in Montreal. John is around but he looks lots younger than 63. Great guy and a wonderful friend. Haven't seen him since about 1970(?). If you can access Facebook he's on it. Bruce |
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13 Mar 09 - 06:42 PM (#2588383) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Sookite Just to let some folks know, I joined the Mudcat. Thought I'd use the handle Sookite as I'm living in Sooke BC and it's not likely anyone else will be using the name Dave Gallant |
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13 Mar 09 - 06:46 PM (#2588384) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: meself Welcome aboard! (We need all the Canuckians we can get!). |
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13 Mar 09 - 06:46 PM (#2588385) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad Welcome Dave, we're generally a harmless bunch. |
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13 Mar 09 - 07:02 PM (#2588394) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley Sookite ? aw hell, I was gonna use that one.... bienvenue mon vieux |
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13 Mar 09 - 11:26 PM (#2588513) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: KenM Welcome, bienvenue, Dave....aka sookite. bobad is correct.....this is generally a harmless bunch though the word-play can leave you scratching your head some time. What are the dates Bruce is playing out in your neck of the woods, Dave? I need to make a business trip to the University of Washington in Seattle and I was waiting until I could have some probablity that it wouldn't rain every f*^k#*g day I was there. I think there's a fast hydrafoil boat from Seattle to Victoria, isn't there? I might try and schedule this trip around the time Murdoch is there and hop over to the island from Seattle. |
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13 Mar 09 - 11:45 PM (#2588518) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: KenM bobad........re: the Sir George computer riot. That is too much that we may have been standing shoulder-to-shoulder watching the computer cards and running like hell from the falling glass. Coincidently, I also had a female friend (two actually) who were arrested on that day...off-line and in a pm, we need to share names...it would also be a riot (pardon the pun) if they were the same people as well. I also knew some of the initial protesters because they were majors (as I was) in the Applied Social Sciences program at SGWU. As Adrien knows, all our bookcases are in our guest bedroom and we have new occupiers in there since Adrien returned to The Great White North (March seems to be a VERY popular month for northerners to flee to southwest Florida). Once I get a chance, I'll get in there and look for that book about the computer center event at Sir George that I referenced in an earlier posting. |
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14 Mar 09 - 07:18 AM (#2588618) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad Right Ken, and the street you mentioned that you lived on sounds like Lincoln to me, I was a neighbour, living on St. Marc at the time. |
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14 Mar 09 - 10:05 AM (#2588710) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Welcome on board Sookite. May your stay be an enjoyable one. Adrien |
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14 Mar 09 - 10:20 AM (#2588716) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Sookite, Maybe you would be interested in having a look at this web site and checking the thread on it that I just refreshed. Adrien http://www.applehollowmusicfest.org/ |
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14 Mar 09 - 12:24 PM (#2588783) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,sookite Ken....Bruce is here from April 18 to 25 inclusive DG |
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14 Mar 09 - 06:22 PM (#2588970) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Sookite If any of you are curious about ne, you can check out my website davegallant.com |
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14 Mar 09 - 09:39 PM (#2589032) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Sookite yes Ken, there is a vessel that goes daily between Seattle and Victoria called the Victoria Clipper. If you google that name you'll get their website DG |
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14 Mar 09 - 10:10 PM (#2589041) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: KenM Damn.....that book about the computer center riot at SGWU seems to have fallen victim to too many moves and too many years. Bob.....you are absolutely right....Lincoln was the name of the street. Dave.... yes, the Victoria Clipper.....I was sure there was a high speed boat. What night(s) is(are) Bruce performing? This might work. I need two days in Seattle (work days....during the week). Is the Sooke Harbor House Restaurant still in business? My wife (Pat) and I had a memorable meal there many moons agao. |
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14 Mar 09 - 10:28 PM (#2589054) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: KenM Dorothey Eber....that was the name of the author of The Computer Centre Party. Rosie Douglas was the leader of the Caribbean students who took over the computer centre on the ninth floor of the Hall Building and later the Faculty Club on the seventh floor. He was deported and eventually became briefly the Prime Minister of Dominica....I think he died in office at a relatively young age. |
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14 Mar 09 - 10:47 PM (#2589058) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad This past February 11 was the 40th. anniversary of the event (can you believe that Ken?). Concordia's newspaper, The Link, had this article on it. |
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14 Mar 09 - 10:54 PM (#2589061) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: KenM Bob: This thread prompted me to do a little background review and I couldn't believe it was that long ago. |
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14 Mar 09 - 11:42 PM (#2589069) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer That was a great read Bobad. Thanks for the link. Adrien |
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15 Mar 09 - 01:24 AM (#2589106) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Sookite Ken, Bruce plays Saturday, April 18 at our monthly coffee house in Sooke (sookefolkmusicsociety.com) and Saturday, April 25 at O'Beans Cafe in Victoria. I/m stll trying to secure one or more gigs inbetween. Yes Sooke Harbour House is still very much in business. As you probably already know, it's a world class high end establishment and has catored to the likes of Richard Gere and Tom Cruise. My wife and I ate there once earlier on when it wasn't so fancy smancy. DG |
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15 Mar 09 - 09:36 AM (#2589287) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon As I mentioned before, I too was outside watching. University was several years in my past. I did know one person inside, a cute blond-haired Maoist, and crazy as a loon. Everyone seemed over-the-top in rhetoric and action. The worst thing you could be was small-"l"-liberal. Any moderation was considered wishy-washy, sappy, contemptible. Another good friend was inside, though I didn't know it at the time. Emru was in the womb of one of the demonstrators. He died this fall of leukemia, at age 38. |
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15 Mar 09 - 10:45 AM (#2589319) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley Sookite, maybe a house concert in Nanaimo, talk to Dawg.. Merissa is good at organizing things... they've heard the last CD and are fans.. who knows ? |
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15 Mar 09 - 04:30 PM (#2589558) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Sookite I'll give the Dawg a fry DG |
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15 Mar 09 - 04:42 PM (#2589564) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace Now we're talking. Haven't eaten dog in many years. Stir fry if you'd be so kind . . . . |
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15 Mar 09 - 05:48 PM (#2589611) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley wha sup dawg ? he's a good man, tell him I said 'woof' |
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15 Mar 09 - 07:04 PM (#2589662) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Sookite ooops......Im working on a mac face book.....small keyboard |
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16 Mar 09 - 12:06 AM (#2589797) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: KenM Dave: Don't forget to let Linda and Cobb know that Bruce is coming out. I think I gave you their contact information but can send it again if you need it. Ken |
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16 Mar 09 - 01:23 AM (#2589820) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Sookite Got it.....will do. Hope you decide to come out. DG |
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05 Apr 09 - 10:50 AM (#2605046) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,wateredown don't forget the muzmuz |
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06 Apr 09 - 01:41 PM (#2605745) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: mike gouthro I'm posting this in the "Montreal 60's Counterculture Question" and "Montreal Sixties" threads. Adrien (Beer) suggested I use this thread to make another attempt to collect info on early Montreal folk venues and notable folk music history. I first assembled the list below in 2007 in the "Little Known 60's Folksingers" thread. I particularly want info on the early Montreal folk scene before 1964 when I first got involved. I'd like more info on The Fifth Amendment, The Finjan, The Pot Pourri/Seven Steps - and especially – on any earlier venues whose names and locations have been lost. For example, I've heard that Bob Gibson performed in Montreal circa 1960 but I don't know when or where. While 1950's and early 1960's info is what I hoping for, I'll gladly update the list below with any additions and corrections. I'm looking for proprietors, locations, years of operation, memorable performances and any other noteworthy info. The Seven Steps renamed The Potpourri. Proprietor - Morris Fineberg (Stanley St between Sir George/Concordia and the Stanley Tavern) 196? – 1962 The Finjan (Victoria St). Proprietor - Shimon Ash 1961? – 1962? The Fifth Amendment (Clarke St). Proprietor - Gary Eisenkraft 1963? - early 1965 The Penelope (Bishop St below Café Prague). Proprietor - Gary Eisenkraft mid 1965 – mid 1966 Café Andre (upstairs on Burnside?) 196? – 197? La Femme Foetal (Mountain St in the William Tell restaurant) mid65 – early 66 Venus De Milo Lounge (St Catherine) <1950? - ?? 1966 Folk Rock The Blue Lantern renamed The Totem Pole by Willie Dunn then managed briefly by Gary Eisenkraft. (below the old Pot Pourri) late 1965 -1968? The Montreal Folk Workshop (Park Ave Moose Hall until 1969 then various locations) Proprietors – Norm/Liz Doyle till late 66 then McKinley/Buchanan/Gouthro then McKinley/Evans then Evans. December 1965 – 1973 The Yellow Door (Aylmer) 1967 – present The New Penelope (Sherbrooke at Park beside the Swiss Hut) Proprietor Gary Eisenkraft.1967 – 1968? The Back Door (McTavish at Sherbrooke) Apr1969 - 1981 The Karma (Crescent and De Maisonneuve) ? The Golem (3460 Stanley north of Sherbrooke) 1973 – 1991 |
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06 Apr 09 - 02:28 PM (#2605794) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon I saw Bob Gibson perform at the Finjan, early sixties. More info as i search the musty corridors of memory. I just digitized his LP, which I bought either there or just after. His repertoire at the Finjan was pretty much the same as on the LP. Saw Shimon Ash & spouse(?) play too at their own club a few times. For years my route to work took me up Victoria (in Snowden area) and I could remember that you had to go down a back alley and up some stairs to find the place, but exactly where...??? |
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06 Apr 09 - 02:36 PM (#2605796) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon I attended the Fifth Amendment (later renamed Fifth Dimension) almost weekly, probably in 63 & 64. As I remember, it didn't cost much to get in & was somewhat negotiable. Whining, wheedling and bringing a group sometimes helped. I was totally broke in those days, and, let's face it, kind of a bum. The list of performers I saw there would be very long. Gary Eisencraft always insisted on singing a few songs before bringing on the main talent, and the crowd were openly whiney and impatient. He tell them, tough, you have to listen to me first. But really, it was all in good fun. |
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06 Apr 09 - 02:40 PM (#2605798) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: john f weldon The (not new) Penelope, yup, saw the Greenbriar boys with Richard Greene. Also Bruce, I think. Back Door - Doc & Merle Watson, Frank Wakefield and others. |
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06 Apr 09 - 02:48 PM (#2605803) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: C. Ham The Yellow Door (Aylmer) 1967 – present The Back Door (McTavish at Sherbrooke) Apr1969 - 1981 The Karma (Crescent and De Maisonneuve) ? The Golem (3460 Stanley north of Sherbrooke) 1973 – 1991 I think the Yellow Door was started by John Foley and soon taken over by Chuck Baker who ran it until someime in the 1980s. Since then there have been a bunch of people who have come and gone. The woman now in charge is Holly Fleming. Among the people running the Back Door were Rick Austin and Dennis Brown. The Karma was open for about two three years in the early-1970s. I'm thinking 1972-1974. It was run by Arnie Naiditch who was murdered, some years later, in Atlanta, Georgia. The Golem was started in 1973 by Saul Markowicz. Mike Regenstreif soon took it over and ran it through 1976. Mark Nerenberg took it over from Mike until the Hillel Society, which owned the building, closed it down less than a year later. Mike reopened the Golem and ran it through the end of 1987 when it was taken over by a commitee headed by Dave Clarke. The committee managed to keep it going until 1991. |
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06 Apr 09 - 02:51 PM (#2605808) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: C. Ham Mike reopened the Golem and ran it through the end of 1987 when it was taken over by a commitee headed by Dave Clarke. The committee managed to keep it going until 1991. It was 1981 when Mike reopened the Golem. |
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06 Apr 09 - 03:01 PM (#2605823) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer C.Ham, You mean Dave Clarke who backs up David Francey at times on guitar? Didn't know that. Dave is a wonderful person. Adrien |
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06 Apr 09 - 03:07 PM (#2605830) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: C. Ham The first coffee house I went to was the Back Door. I saw Doc & Merle Watson, David Bromberg, Ramblin' Jack Elliott, Paul Siebel, Sonny Terry & Brownie McGhee, and Jerry Jeff Walker there. At the Yellow Door, I saw Bill Staines, Paul Geremia, Keith Sykes, Doug McArthur and a lot of the local Montreal folks. At the Karma, I saw Fraser & DeBolt, Steve Goodman and Dave Van Ronk. The Golem was my main stomping grounds. I was there a lot in the 1970s and often in the 1980s on my frequent visits to Montreal. The first person I saw there was Bruce (Peace) Murdoch. Many others come quickly to mind. Jesse Winchester, Kate & Anna McGarrigle, Murray McLauchlan, Valdy, Utah Phillips, Rosalie Sorrels, Kate Wolf, Priscilla Herdman, Bill Staines, Stan Rogers, Garnet Rogers, Mimi Farina, Tom Paxton, Odetta, Erik Frandsen, Jack Hardy, Dave Essug, Friends of Fiddler's Green, Connie Kaldor, John Hartford, Roger McGuinn, Peter Tork, Allan Nichols, Nanci Griffith, Bill Staines, Humphrey & His Dumptrucks, Willie P. Bennett, Ronney Abramson, Christopher Kearney, David Rea, Nancy White... |
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06 Apr 09 - 03:10 PM (#2605839) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: C. Ham You mean Dave Clarke who backs up David Francey at times on guitar? Yes, that's him. He also has a band in Montreal called Steel Rail and one in Victoria called Shearwater. |
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06 Apr 09 - 03:20 PM (#2605854) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: C. Ham One more thing, and that has to do with the present. There's been a big upswing in the live Montreal folk scene in the past five years and a lot of the credit has to go to Matt and Rebecca Large from Hello Darlin' Productions who put on shows at a bunch of different clubs and halls. And to Mike Regenstreif's Folk Roots/Folk Branches radio show on CKUT. It was a big blow to the Montreal folk scene when Mike stopped doing the weekly show. His short features during the replacement show Folk Directions are great but are not on often enough |
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06 Apr 09 - 03:28 PM (#2605867) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity This thread sponsored by The Montreal Chamber of Commerce, for late blooming hippies! |
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06 Apr 09 - 03:41 PM (#2605882) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Thanks Ham. Matt and Rebecca definitely keep it alive and couldn't agree with you more on Mike's leaving. Adrien |
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06 Apr 09 - 03:43 PM (#2605884) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: mike gouthro Fantastic! Please keep the reminiscences coming. I'll incorporate everything into a more readable form in the next week or two. Offline, I received an email from Gerry Goodfriend with details from the early 60's which I'll also incorporate. This is working better than my first attempt in 2007. Thanks to Adrien for the push |
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06 Apr 09 - 04:20 PM (#2605910) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad You probably know about Dylan's appearance at the Finjan in 1962 but... in case you don't. A bootleg of that show is readily available. |
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06 Apr 09 - 04:27 PM (#2605916) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: C. Ham Getting back to the question of the 1950s and early-60s, I think the importance of concert and record producer Sam Gesser in that era cannot be underestimated. There were several articles about him in the Canadian media and a nice remembrance by Mike Regenstreif in Sing Out after he died last year. |
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06 Apr 09 - 05:00 PM (#2605943) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace I don't remember much about it all. I'd be happy to answer questions, Mike. Via message. Bruce |
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06 Apr 09 - 11:48 PM (#2606193) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: meself (That would be, "cannot be OVERestimated"). (Or, "should not be underestimated"). |
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07 Apr 09 - 12:19 AM (#2606204) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace So then what about 'misunderestimated', huh? Huh? |
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07 Apr 09 - 12:26 AM (#2606208) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: mike gouthro C Ham - Thanks for mentioning Sam Gesser. It reminded me that I have a Penguin Eggs magazine with an extensive interview with him before he passed away. I was surprised to learn that he was a co-founder of The Record Centre on De Maisoneuve – an important asset to me when I first jumped into the world of folk music. Bruce - thanks, I'll certainly take you up on your offer. As I accumulate pieces of information, I'm trying to figure out a simple approach to present it in a concise and useful way. Any ideas are most welcome. |
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07 Apr 09 - 10:20 PM (#2607044) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer Refresh |
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08 Apr 09 - 03:25 PM (#2607511) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: mike gouthro Bruce I also have an indirect connection to John Cousineau. In 1961, I too was in a Ventures/Johnny and The Hurricanes instrumental band called the Bristols. One of our memorable gigs was Kike Stevens' Point St Charles dance hop. Another was at the Verdun High variety show in our red corduroy jackets. Our lead guitarist was Len Hurst (later Kulik) who was friends and neighbours with John Cousioneau. Our band also had Doug Mearns on sax and Bob Dickson on drums. Mike |
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08 Apr 09 - 03:59 PM (#2607538) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: mike gouthro """Kike Stevens'"""" ooops - that should be Mike Stevens'. |
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08 Apr 09 - 04:34 PM (#2607559) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Sookite I hung at the Blue Lanturn on Stanley with people like Bruce Murdoch and Sean Gagnier in the winter of 64 until I left Montreal in the fall of 65. An increible list of "names" went through that basement door, like Richie Havens, Tom Paxton, Tim Buckley and Eric Anderson (to name a few. The Lanturn was owned?/run by a fellow named Manny. He was also Penny Lang's manager at the time I believe. Sometime during that period (summer of 65 if I'm not mistaken) Gary Eisenkraft took it over and renamed it the New Penelope. He later moved it to the Sherbrooke St. location, which I visited when I came back for Expo in 67. DG |
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08 Apr 09 - 04:41 PM (#2607562) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Sookite Mike, I was in a band, briefly with John Cousineau. (a month or so) which we threw together at the New Penelope on Stanley. His brother played drums. It was fun. among others, we did some Butterfield covers. Does anyone have any info on John? DG |
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09 Apr 09 - 03:24 AM (#2607833) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace You can find John on Facebook. |
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19 Aug 09 - 12:59 AM (#2703569) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace To the Guest poster: There is NO apostrophe required in Guy's. Nor is it necessary to capitalize the word. And it's all downhill after that. |
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07 Oct 09 - 08:26 PM (#2740863) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Josh The Image coffee house on Park Avenue(Park the east side of Price Arthur near the Church) was a popular hangout in the late 60's. ie 67 and 68 Josh Matapedia, Quebec jshearing@gmail.com |
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08 Oct 09 - 07:20 PM (#2741575) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley I think that's where the Satan's Choice bikers hung out.... no booze but drug central... |
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12 Oct 09 - 10:16 PM (#2744595) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Josh You're correct, Bankley. People like Mike French of the Satn's Choice, often stopped by... buy! Josh |
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14 Oct 09 - 12:38 AM (#2745484) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Max God, am I late on this one. My re-entry to Montreal was via 'Old Montreal' and then up to Park Ave via The Door. Bob Riskybusiness got it right; David the Candlemaker, Jerrylynn, Penny Lang & Rose, Chuck & Jenny, Heather Evans, Pete Chalmers, Jesse, Bruce Murdoch, Willie Dunn, Bob Robb, Scott Lang, Peter Weldon, Steve Cole, Tex Koenig, Michael Brown, Russ Kelly,Dutch Mills, Liz Tansy, Artie Gold, John Carson, La Bodega, Sancho Panza's, Rufus' Guitar Shop, L'atellier 515, Stash's Flea Market, Hobo the Leatherworker, Marie Lynn Hammond, Danny Greenspoon, Rick Whitelaw, Bill Garrett, The Esquire Show Bar, The Seven Steps, The Rainbow, The Black Bottom, The Swiss Hut,Andre Farkas, David Young, Steve Barry, Jorn Reissner and so many others I'm getting tired listing them. Thank you all, you touched and informed my young life. Max |
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14 Oct 09 - 03:40 PM (#2745846) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace Bob Robb I haven't heard that name in years. Max, do you know what's become of him? Bruce M |
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14 Oct 09 - 03:55 PM (#2745868) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bobad This sounds like the man, Bruce: Bob Robb |
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14 Oct 09 - 04:24 PM (#2745888) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer I think you nailed it Bobad. Beer (adrien) |
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14 Oct 09 - 04:28 PM (#2745890) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley I last saw Bob about 3 yrs ago. He came to a benefit that Dunn was playing at Six Nations near Brantford.(to raise money for legal costs over the land claim dispute) He ended up on stage with Willie, myself, and Raven Paulson... his 3 main guitar pickers... Bob played mandolin.. Willie was so into listening to us he forgot to sing a lot of the time or else was singing about 4 feet from the mic... pretty funny.... at the time Bob was living in the Bruce peninsula near Lake Huron and complaining about some young girl trying to get him to settle down !! He's a great guy... multi-talented and funny as hell.... |
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14 Oct 09 - 04:32 PM (#2745893) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: bankley ps... if you ever want to reach him, Peace, talk to Willie... |
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14 Oct 09 - 06:12 PM (#2745976) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: meself "at the time Bob was living in the Bruce peninsula" You're sure that wasn't Bruce living in the Bob peninsula? |
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14 Oct 09 - 10:54 PM (#2746186) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Peace I e-mailed him. Hope to hear back. |
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15 Oct 09 - 12:20 AM (#2746216) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: KenM Nice to see this thread is still alive. Bruce, this is a Verdun High School question from when we were both there. Do you remember a group who called themselves "The Golden Tones?" I think they were all from Crawford Park but I can't remember. Ken |
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15 Oct 09 - 08:52 PM (#2747092) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer And thanks to Bobad for starting it. Adrien |
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24 Oct 09 - 12:44 PM (#2751728) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Three Sheets. I thought I'd mention that "Sim" passed away 2003. |
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27 Oct 09 - 05:37 PM (#2753916) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Max So, the subject is locations. I'll start in 1962 when I was 12. I met Russ Kelly (Rings and Things, Russ and Sue} at the Westmount YMCA playing bridge. I was really hoping to get his kid sister to notice me. I grew up in NDG and the dances were in; the NDG and Westmount Y's, various churches, and 'Le Manoir', a French scool gym on Decarie a few blocks north of Sherbrooke. The Bands were the Haunted, The Monks, Bartholomew plus 5, Rabble and bunch of others. Rabble were 'counterculture'. Most of these bands did covers and a few originals. Rabble had a 45 on the radio, a first for us. The title was 'alabounty bam' and it had a reference to marajuana. It was about 1966 and these were 'heavy cats', living downtown and dressing funny. Out of 'Bartholomew plus 5' came Corky Laing who recorded 'Mississippi Queen' a few years later as the drummer of Mountain. On the French side of town were the 'suit bands' Caesar et les Romaines (roman soldier suits), Les Jaguars (spotted yellow & black suits), Les Classelles ( White suits & hair) and Les Eccentriques (same, but in pink). Now if that ain't counterculture, what is?? More later, I do get out of Rock & Roll later, but rock was part of it. Max |
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27 Oct 09 - 10:49 PM (#2754089) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,AW Logos newspaper getting busted for their headlines "Mayor shot with LSD by drug crazed hippie.Gary Eisencraft and the great New Penolope where i saw Richie Havens ,Joni Mitchel Goorden Lightfoot,the mothers,Willie Dunn,Penny Lang,Jesse Winchester etc.etc. etc..The waitresses in their mini skirt sweaters. The dep magazine store on park,where people left messages for their friends.Black rooms with UV lights.Pines Pizza where the owner was their 24 hours a day.once ordered breakfast delivered from their.opened the box and out crawled a coakroach.Phantazmagoria with their great record store on park and sherbrooke.Duchies record cave on St. laurent.La Paloma on Clark who had the best choclate in montreal.Rosie Douglass who was the ring leader of the Sir George sit in.Later became Prime minister of Dominica.At 20 yrs old he was a friend of Trudeau's, CASTRO.visited Gadafi.GREAT MEMORIES.the getto was like a little town with all these crazies running around. |
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18 Nov 09 - 02:40 PM (#2768603) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,BIGONE Hi there, Josh, where the heck is Mike FRENCH of the Satan's choice? I partyed with him pretty hard at the Alice COOPER show back in 1975 (by the way an awesome show!)and I lost track of him since then!!! |
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07 Dec 09 - 01:35 PM (#2783053) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,A Frequent Denizen of the 60's Montreal Scen Which basically means, I want preserved for the ages, The FratHouse (my first destination), and 27 Cote St Catherine (technically Outramont), my home back in 1970. Had a sign on the door welcoming all peace loving people, no bikers. We had the color room where we used to drop acid. And the perhaps greatest claim to fame, the undressed girls. Possibly why it was also known as the naked hippie house. |
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13 Jan 10 - 11:46 AM (#2810988) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST Wow, I can't beleive this thread is still going!! Just to go back in time a little - I'm the friend of Bobad's who is working on the dissertation project about 1960s Montreal. I'm sorry I havn't been too active on here lately: long story short, there a long, annoying process of government paperwork that I have to go through to be 'officially' granted permission to talk to people for my project. (Anyone who wants to know more is welcome to PM me). Anyways, thanks again for keeping it up - I'll probably be back here with some more questions for y'all soon, but I wanted to ask one right now: were any of you involved in street performances or street theatre, or knew someone who was? |
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13 Jan 10 - 11:49 AM (#2810991) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: The Lorax Oops sorry I should have logged in before sending that last message. If you want to PM me, I'm The Lorax, not guest. Again, you guys have been so helpful. Thanks!! |
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13 Dec 12 - 10:39 AM (#3451374) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST Montreal now is so very different than it was back in the 60's or 70's. Is there anybody mentioned in this thread that even still lives there? |
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13 Dec 12 - 10:45 AM (#3451376) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Beer One hour from Montreal. Adrien- |
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13 Dec 12 - 10:50 AM (#3451380) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST Is there anybody mentioned in this thread that even still lives there? Who wants to know? |
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13 Dec 12 - 11:34 AM (#3451390) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST Me. |
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13 Dec 12 - 12:31 PM (#3451413) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Jeri I believe there are a few folks still living there, or living close. In the spirit of this thread, we should refer to them all as "me". Hoping this isn't an inelegant way of putting it (I mean no harm), but people get what they give. |
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13 Dec 12 - 08:16 PM (#3451573) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz "If you can remember the 60's, you weren't really there..." Tex Konig Then there's The Yellow Door, not the same now, but what is EVER the same now?...http://www.yellowdoor.org/#!history And yep, those folkies you knew are STILL there, but they are disguised as "Senior Citizens..." or as Spirits that walk among us... Peace & Love...bob |
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04 May 13 - 04:29 PM (#3511658) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz refresh...in case anybody wants to add something...BR |
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04 May 13 - 05:11 PM (#3511664) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: Dorothy Parshall I am NOT a "senior citizen"! Speak for yourself Bob. |
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05 May 13 - 04:11 PM (#3511894) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Dearest Dorothy: NOBODY thinks of themselves as a senior citizen, it's those DURN OTHER GUYS that do. As the birthdays click by, I too still feel young and vibrant. For me, those $.15 sandwiches are still there, and all those good times, just a memory away. Hugz from over here to over there...bob |
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05 May 13 - 06:17 PM (#3511922) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST The fifteen cent sandwiches are still here. But now we pay $4.00 for them. If your income hasn't gone up proportionally with the fuckin' sandwich, you are eating less or you're deep in debt. |
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06 May 13 - 12:22 PM (#3512146) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: ollaimh I was there in the very late sixties, but if you wanted to see leonard cohen at four in the morning than ben;s deli or the main deli. that's were all the drunks went to sober up. the working class and immigrant types were on "the main" now lower st Laurent. and over to st denis. rents were dirt cheap, especially over towards st denis and down below st Catherine's. me and a couple of buddies had a scummy two bedroom apartment on rue colonial for $40 a month. hard to believe. we had so many crashers that sometimes I had to go out and beg a couch from friends if I got home late. the top of the weird hangouts, where French met English alternative types was the café theleme between st denis and st Laurent. it was a café devoted to the works of Alistair Crowley the founder of the oro. bill breeze was one of the guys on the main back then, now he's the caliph of the oto. who knew we should have brownnosed him more? there was a big occultist scene around st Laurent and st denis ands thereabouts. it was fun until speed replaced pot. then things got crazy. of course as mentioned the yellow door was folk central and McGill was a counterculture area, and George Williams had the great riot. I was too poor for that scene. between working at the docks loading and unloading as a day labourer and then busking I was either beat from work or out an prince Arthur at night trying to sing for a few bucks. the beauty of montreal back then was it was sooooo cheap to live. we nova scotians did a lot of mouching off the rich kids. we called it "living off the fat of the land". they had so much money they didn't know what to do with it anyway. sometimes we could live for weeks without working, but then that horrible day, up a four am and off to the docks for twenty bucks and a sore back. you couldn't walk across the park between st denis and st Laurent without being offered hash for sale. |
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13 May 13 - 12:21 PM (#3514602) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Rick Austin What a wonderful stroll down memory lane. Miss those days at the Yellow and Back Door(s). I re-visited the Yellow Door a couple of years ago. Aside for the missing yellow door - the place feels the same. Had a nice chat with the people there. |
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13 May 13 - 01:50 PM (#3514641) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST Anybody know whatever happened to Christopher Kearney? We used to be good friends but it's like he dropped off the face of the earth around 1980 or so. |
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13 May 13 - 05:13 PM (#3514725) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz This is the latest as far as I know...http://www.myspace.com/christopherjkearney BR |
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14 May 13 - 12:38 PM (#3515024) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST Thanks Bob. |
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14 Dec 13 - 11:27 PM (#3584212) Subject: RE: BS: Montreal 60's Counterculture Question From: GUEST,KB I remember Pine's. Living on Jeanne-Mance around 76. |