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23 Oct 08 - 11:53 PM (#2474431) Subject: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Ron Davies WSJ column by Mr. Rove: 23 Oct 2008: "...Evidence from early voting in Florida, North Carolina, New Mexico, and Nevada shows that Democrats are flocking to cast ballots. We don't know yet whether they're cannibalizing their Election Day turnout by getting reliable voters to cast ballots, or creating an electoral tsunami, by targeting people who wouldn't otherwise bother to turn out. If it's the former, Mr. McCain still has a (long) shot. If it's the latter, he and other Republican candidates are about to be dealt a punishing electoral blow." Comments? Specifically, what do you think is the answer to his question? I would think it's new voters, to a large extent, but also reliable voters--the idea is to make voting as easy as possible and to avoid the complications of a huge turnout on Election Day. |
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24 Oct 08 - 12:02 AM (#2474441) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Stilly River Sage They're not making voting early easy in Florida. Far from it, with that law that says they must take ID to the polls and it must match federal lists. It's going very slowly. There is a tsunami of early voters, but the polls are slowing the long lines to a trickle. SRS |
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24 Oct 08 - 12:11 AM (#2474448) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Ron Davies Do you have any word on whether any are giving up? I'm not there, of course, but I would think people are aware of the stunning historical nature of this election--as well as its seriousness--and would stay in those lines as long as it took. |
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24 Oct 08 - 12:15 AM (#2474450) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Stilly River Sage Yes, some are. I'll see if I can find the article I just read. |
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24 Oct 08 - 12:18 AM (#2474452) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Stilly River Sage Here it is--a Salon article. SRS |
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24 Oct 08 - 12:19 AM (#2474453) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: katlaughing According to this snippet from the Miami Herald, people seem to be hanging in there, plus they've added more voting booths: Florida adds voting booths to cope with long lines Breanne Gilpatrick, Adam H. Beasley and Larry Lebowitz Record throngs of voters continue to wait with uncharacteristic South Florida patience, as more than 47,000 people cast ballots in Miami-Dade and Broward counties in the first two days of early voting. On Wednesday, the lines continued, often in predominantely black communities. ''As we know, we have experienced tremendous lines at all our voting sites,'' said Broward Supervisor of Elections Brenda C. Snipes. ``I don't expect our lines will diminish over the next 11 days.'' Snipes' office added 229 voting booths and 42 optical scanners at the 17 early voting sites in the hopes of quickening the pace -- in a county where voters waited from 2 ½ to 3 ½ hours or more to cast their ballots at the West Regional Library in Plantation, where people started lining up at 8 a.m., and at Miramar City Hall. At the North Dade Regional Library in Miami Gardens, some voters started lining up, with lawn chairs in tow, at 5:30 a.m. The line was 200 deep by the time the polls opened at 7 a.m. at the library in the heart of North Miami-Dade's black community. ''The early bird always gets the worm,'' said Clem Hamilton of Miami Gardens, who brought his own stool to make the wait more manageable. "It's less stressful to come early in the day.'' Miami-Dade Supervisor of Elections Lester Sola ordered 30 additional machines to read voter identification cards to be distributed at the 20 early voting sites. ''Our issue has been the sign-in areas, and that's what we're trying to address,'' said elections spokeswoman Marie Bertot. ''We have five of the ID readers out now, and the other 25, we're hoping will get here'' on Thursday. There's more HERE Here's more: ichelle Thomas, a 43-year-old registered nurse, was among the 150 people waiting to vote when the polls opened at 10 a.m. Wednesday at the African American Research Library in Fort Lauderdale. ''Three hours is nothing compared to eight years,'' Thomas said of the wait. Part of the problem is the sheer size of the ballot. The presidential election is clearly the top attraction, but the ballot is chock-a-block with congressional races, judicial retention questions and many statewide and local referendums. ''I've never seen anything like this in my life,'' said Miami Gardens Councilman Oliver Gilbert III. ``I've never seen people so accepting of the lines, so accepting of waiting. You don't hear them complain, you don't see them leave.'' To answer Rove's question, I think it is both. |
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24 Oct 08 - 12:23 AM (#2474456) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Ron Davies It's also interesting that Gov. Crist is not blowing the "Voter Fraud" horn. |
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24 Oct 08 - 12:42 AM (#2474466) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: artbrooks Very busy here in New Mexico, but I haven't seen any real sign of any "get out and vote early" push...much more that people want to avoid the real lines on Nov. 4th. The County Clerks have just been authorized to expand hours, and open at 9am over the weekend. We voted on the 2nd day of early voting, and waited for about 20 minutes, but it has been building up all week. We have paper and fill-in-the-oval-with-a-pen ballots. |
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24 Oct 08 - 12:49 AM (#2474469) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Ron Davies From Politico: 23 Oct 2008: Blame Game: GOP forms circular firing squad "...At his northern Virginia headquarters, some McCain aides are already speaking of the campaign in the past tense. Morale, even among some of the heartiest and most loyal staffers, has plummeted. And many past and current McCain advisors are warring with each other over who led the candidate astray..." |
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24 Oct 08 - 01:04 AM (#2474479) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: DougR Right, Ron, I heard on the grapevine (Fox News Network) that Rove is worried that Palin won't be able to pay for all those clothes the GOP bought her. Todd told Chris Matthews that he and Karl shouldn't worry about it too much, he was sure that the Obama campaign would take pity on her and pay the tab. After all, they are the guys with the money. DougR |
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24 Oct 08 - 01:08 AM (#2474482) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Bee-dubya-ell I'm not at all surprised that early voting would be "Democrat heavy". I think it would be the case even if Republicans were slightly ahead in the opinion polls. There are many more incentives for urban voters to vote early than there are for their suburban and rural counterparts. It's the urban precincts that are most likely to have long lines and other SNAFUs on election day, and urban voters tend to be Democrats. Early voting is not as attractive for many suburban and rural voters, who tend to be Republicans. Why would anyone want to drive 25 miles to vote early when the local polling place is just around the corner and isn't really all that crowded on election day? |
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24 Oct 08 - 04:00 AM (#2474546) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Well, in Ohio, where registration is high, there shouldn't be large lines at the voting polls. From what I hear, one voter can cast 2000 votes...thanks to Acorn! |
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24 Oct 08 - 05:32 AM (#2474591) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Teribus Karl Rove? Wasn't he the chap who was supposed to have been arrested all those months ago? |
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24 Oct 08 - 07:09 AM (#2474659) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: George Papavgeris All together now: "I'll go no more Karl-Rove-ing, Karl-Rove-ing for the Right...."" |
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24 Oct 08 - 07:33 AM (#2474669) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Bobert Yeah, T-Bird... That's the same Karl Rove... Problem is that until we get a new sheriff there won't be any arrests... |
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24 Oct 08 - 07:44 AM (#2474676) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Ron Davies WSJ 24 Oct 2008: Front page: "Obama has started to aid down-ticket Democrats. With his lead in the polls holding steady, the Illinois senator is helping fellow Democrats with staff, funds, and appearances, as his party seeks to widen its control of Congress."...."Bush's former press secretary said he is backing Obama." |
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24 Oct 08 - 07:57 AM (#2474689) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Ron Davies Obama supporters still have to guard against the twin dangers found in this situation--and both in evidence on Mudcat 1) Overconfidence--it'll be easy--I don't need to vote. 2) Defeatist cynicism--my vote will be "stolen" so there's no point. All Obama supporters need to vote--nobody really knows at this point how it will turn out, but to maximize chances of a good outcome, vote. And leave the defeatist cynicism to the GWB/McCain supporters. |
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24 Oct 08 - 09:18 AM (#2474784) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Amos HEar, hear. A |
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24 Oct 08 - 09:30 AM (#2474800) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Alice I think it is a mix of voters, not just new or reliable or previously apathetic, and a major motivation to go now is the worry that there may be a problem like people saw with the hanging chads fiasco. If they go to the polls before election day and they do encounter a problem, they will hopefully have time to resolve it and make their vote count. |
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24 Oct 08 - 09:56 AM (#2474835) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Donuel To make voting MORE difficult the Govenor of Florida asked the AG of Florida to cut back the hours in which early voting will be available. The AG and voting assitence commissioner have now cut the hours one can vote. They cut the weekend hours from 8 hours down to four with the option of trading hours between Sat and Sun to not exceed 8 hours total for the 2 days. Weekdays are cut from 12 hours to 6 hours. The polls will now open at 10AM (the hour in which most people will already be at work. The longest waiting time in line in Florida early voting is reported as 5 hours on a weekday. Mostly old people were pleading in the Florida heat for chairs or stools to help their wiat in line to no avail. How would the Florida officials comment on early voting... "The Florida early voting convienience is moving along with great deliberate expediency and employing fresh new time schedules to assure all those who wish to vote , can." AND WHY DOES IT SEEM THE VOTING OFFICIALS AND VOLUNTEERS OVERWHELINGLY REPUBLICAN? the DNC needs to get on top of the "volunteer poll workds" and officials. |
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24 Oct 08 - 10:33 AM (#2474873) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: SINSULL I don't know where you get your info, Donuel, but here are the hours from the official site: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-earlyvoting-list,0,5515856.htmlstory They vary by county. |
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24 Oct 08 - 10:45 AM (#2474879) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: PoppaGator Amen to Ron Davies: "All Obama supporters need to vote--nobody really knows at this point how it will turn out, but to maximize chances of a good outcome, vote." If you need more encouragement than that, please refer to the "It's My Fault" thread, click the link, and watch the video. Your name won't be mentioned, but pretend that it is. Then, vote. |
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24 Oct 08 - 10:45 AM (#2474880) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: SINSULL Note too that the governor of Florida has been quoted as saying that the accusations of voter fraud coming from his fellow Republicans are grossly exaggerated. There have been very few cases found and they have been handled. Maybe, he really does want a clean election this time. |
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24 Oct 08 - 11:25 AM (#2474906) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Donuel correction Weekdays are cut from 12 hours to 6 hours. should be Weekdays are cut from 12 hours to 8 hours. |
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24 Oct 08 - 12:00 PM (#2474947) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: M.Ted Karl Rove shouldn't be worried, he should be proud. All the strategies that he developed and used have been applied in this election, for good or for ill. The McCain folks, sadly, have been the ones inclined to use the dirty tricks, but when it's all over, I am sure we'll find out how the Obama folks used Rove's number crunching strategies to leverage red states into blue ones. Even at that, I am not really sure about which side Rove has been playing for--I can't help but remember that only a few weeks back he began affably reminding everyone about McCain's mean streak, his impulsiveness, his stubbornness and his "character" issues. Then there was the domino-like way that a number of prominent conservative columnists flipped over to endorsing Obama. And of course, if there was an endorsement that could deflate McCain's perceived strength on defense and Iraq, it would be Colin Powell. And when Scott McClellan, who was, after all, Bush's spokesman, endorses Obama. Is this mere coincidence, or is it the hand of a master at work? |
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24 Oct 08 - 12:17 PM (#2474965) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: SINSULL Then why does the official site show different hours from what you are posting? Where are you getting your info? |
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24 Oct 08 - 12:24 PM (#2474971) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Bill D I never heard of polling places being closed at 3PM before, but it happened in Miami-Dade county. They did allow those in line to vote, but some didn't finish until 8PM. The interesting thing is that folks were sticking it out! There is little doubt that much of the heavy turnout is Democrats anxious to avoid another debacle like 2000, and not much doubt that Republican election officials are trying to limit damage as best they can....but long line will also discourage some Republican voters - and maybe those who are already discouraged at the projections. Karl Rove is right to be worried.... the attempt he helped design to ensure Republican control in perpetuity is foundering on the detritus of its own false premises....namely, that "you can fool enough of the folks all the time to keep power no matter how much greed & corruption shows around the edges." I hope Rove appreciates while he is still alive what a sad place in history he will occupy. |
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24 Oct 08 - 12:44 PM (#2474994) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: SINSULL So they closed the line because they couldn't accomodate any more people. Wonder what happens on Election Day if this is the turn out. I can see where they can shut down the line at whatever time is set for the polling place but they can't turn away voters BEFORE closing time. It will be a very interesting 24 hours. "They're not making voting early easy in Florida. Far from it, with that law that says they must take ID to the polls and it must match federal lists." In NYC I always had to show ID and sign the federal list which had a copy of my signature. Standard procedure. |
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24 Oct 08 - 02:10 PM (#2475071) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Donuel The national federal database is RNC generated. |
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24 Oct 08 - 02:12 PM (#2475073) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: SINSULL And???? |
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24 Oct 08 - 03:26 PM (#2475154) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Uncle_DaveO Sinsull, you said, In NYC I always had to show ID and sign the federal list which had a copy of my signature. Standard procedure. I doubt very much that it was a "federal list". I don't think there is such a thing as a federal voter list, any more than there is a federal list of United States citizens. Even more doubtful than that, a "federal list" of citizens or voters with the address and specimen signatures. What you signed would be a list generated under state law, by precinct or ward or whatever, under the state's voter registration procedures. Dave Oesterreich |
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24 Oct 08 - 04:12 PM (#2475190) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: PoppaGator In Louisiana, each voter: 1. Presents a photo ID or other acceptable ID (there is a fairly extensive list of permissible substitutes, but virtually everyone has a drivers license or a state-ID for non-drivers), and 2. Signs next to their name in "the book," which is maintained and provided by the local Board of Elections, listing all eligible voters in a given precinct. If your name is not in the book, you can't use the voting machine in the booth, but you may cast a paper provisional ballot. This book is NOT "federal" here and the situation is probably the same everywhere in the US. The fact that it is maintained locally should mean that it's pretty reliable. Newly registered voters are always in there, and those who have already voted absentee or early are clearly crossed out. In New Orleans, there are more names than probaly should be on the rolls, rather than fewer. There have been efforts to eliminate the names of those who left with Katrina and have never gotten back, based on mailings returned as "not at this address," but the voters in question have not been deleted. They just have a notation at their names in the Book, requiring address verification and a signature on a form asserting that the informatin is true, etc. ********************************* Several people have voiced complaints that provisional ballots do not get counted. That's usually true, but only in cases where they don't matter anyway. Counting provisional ballots would be a huge pain in the ass. If the number of provision ballots is less than the margin of victory in every race on the ballot, they are (quite correctly) discarded. If the number of provisional ballots is equal to or greater than the number of votes separating the first-place and second-place condidiates, then they WILL be counted. Even in cases where every single provisional ballot would have to be for the same candidate ~ statistically unlikely ~ in order to affect the result. |
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24 Oct 08 - 04:16 PM (#2475191) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: SINSULL Could be Dave - it was a computer generated list with a facsimile of my signature. I assumed it was federal but you're probably right. My point is that I was required to prove who I was by ID and signature before I could vote. I can't remember what goes on here in Maine. For sure, I don't have to produce an ID but I believe I sign something. HMMMM But that proves your point. Were it a federal list, it would be the same everywhere. The whole discussion here seems to assume voter fraud. I may be naive but I don't believe either party wants a repeat of recent fiascos. |
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24 Oct 08 - 07:50 PM (#2475406) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Bill D It's interesting...here in Maryland, they don't require me to show an ID...they ask my name, ask for me to recite the correct address & birthday, check it off on the list, and allow me to vote. If anyone else claimed to be me, they'd need to know stuff that few would know. I suppose if anyone got that far, my vote 'might' be compromised...and I have never been told "No, you already voted". |
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24 Oct 08 - 08:00 PM (#2475422) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: GUEST,hg I don't know what is happening around the state but early voting in Tallahassee has been well organized and efficient. I voted today at the courthouse rotunda across from the old capitol. I had my "Hippies for Obama" button on and I had researched my sample ballot. Several people in line asked to see my choices based on my button! |
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25 Oct 08 - 08:23 AM (#2475746) Subject: RE: BS: Karl Rove Is Worried From: Ron Davies This is directed at "Insanity"--and you could leave the s out--the handle of that poster would be just as apt-- If you don't care to respond on the other thread to my challenge on the basis of your "stone-faced liar" comment, perhaps you'd like to do so here. |