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11 Dec 08 - 12:11 PM (#2512695) Subject: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Alice Am I the only one very annoyed by the label "Czar" being tacked onto positions in the US government? Ever since the "drug Czar" term, this keeps cropping up whenever there is a crisis to deal with an issue. I don't know why it bugs me, but I'd wish the news reporters would stop doing it. Here's the first recorded report of it according to Wiki: The title was first published in a 1982 news story by United Press International which reported that "Senators... voted 62-34 to establish a 'drug czar' who would have overall responsibility for U.S. drug policy." Since then, several ad hoc executive positions in both the United States and United Kingdom have been established which have been subsequently referred to in this manner. |
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11 Dec 08 - 12:16 PM (#2512707) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Bill D It takes less ink and typing than "kingpin" or "Chief Oversight Executive" |
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11 Dec 08 - 12:27 PM (#2512722) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Alice Director would be more appropriate. |
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11 Dec 08 - 12:28 PM (#2512724) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Rapparee I've wondered from the beginning if the "czar" could knout those who deserved it. "Car czar" rhymes, which makes it good, if simpleminded, journalism. |
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11 Dec 08 - 12:29 PM (#2512726) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Wesley S So Alice - can we appoint you as the "Official Mudcat Anti-Czar Czar"? |
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11 Dec 08 - 12:30 PM (#2512727) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Amos Better than the Hoss Boss, or the Chief Flivver Quiver, I suppose. |
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11 Dec 08 - 12:33 PM (#2512728) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Genie I'm not that crazy about the "kingpin" concept, either. We, supposedly, do not elect "leaders" in this country - at least in our Legislature, and arguably in our Executive branch either - we elect "representatives." We are a constitutionally limited democratic republic. The whole concept of kings, czars, or other real rulers is basically antithetical to the concept of government of the people, for the people, and by the people. I'm bothered enough by the creeping in of more and more Federal Executive Branch power -- things like "executive orders," "signing statements," etc. Then we have things like the Federal Reserve Director changing monetary policy by fiat, too. Not only do we need to curtail the tendency to give individual bureaucrats and executives too much power, but I thin we also need to rein in the use of terms that seem to endorse our acceptance of some sort of ruler. "Chief Oversight Executive" may take more ink, but let's hope that it's more apt description of what powers Congress and the President want these bureau heads to have, and I think we'd do well to call them something that reflects that. |
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11 Dec 08 - 12:37 PM (#2512732) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Alice If we want a policy to go in a certain direction, we put a director in charge. I HATE that czar is being used the way it is, and don't know why, but it is physically like hearing fingernails on a chalk board when I hear it used in the context other than its original Russian meaning. No, don't call me czar or czarina Anything. The positions should be called Director, I believe. Director of Drug Policy or Drug Policy Director. Energy Policy Director. Terrorism Policy Director. Sheesh, this really peeves me. |
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11 Dec 08 - 12:39 PM (#2512736) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Rapparee Terrorism Policy Director? TP Director? |
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11 Dec 08 - 12:41 PM (#2512741) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Paul Burke I'm in revolt against all these czars. I'm the drugs Lenin. |
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11 Dec 08 - 12:42 PM (#2512743) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Art Thieme Carczar is the name of one of those new Iraqi head guys, right?? Art |
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11 Dec 08 - 12:43 PM (#2512746) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Genie The labels we put on things do affect how we think and feel about them. The danger in using terms like "Car Czar" and "War On Drugs" is that accepting those labels means - or at least leads to - accepting attitudes and concepts that are counter-productive. |
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11 Dec 08 - 03:10 PM (#2512847) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Bee-dubya-ell I agree. The idea of using antiquated aristocratic titles as tags for people in powerful positions is an affront to our society. We should use the names of SUPERHEROES! No more "Drug Czar"! He should be the DRUG TERMINATOR! And the not yet appointed overseer of all things automotive should be OPTIMUS PRIME! |
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11 Dec 08 - 03:22 PM (#2512862) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: GUEST,beardedbruce Present reference to "car czar" - Autocrat |
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11 Dec 08 - 04:45 PM (#2512938) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: McGrath of Harlow They never spell it Tsar do they? And when the person in question is a woman they never say Czarina (or Tsarina). Funny how "Drug Czar" sounds so different from "Drug Baron"... I wonder, have they imported this rather daft American terminology into Russia these days? |
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11 Dec 08 - 05:26 PM (#2512985) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Genie Good one, Bruce! How about "Drug Idol" instead? Maybe the public would really pay attention to him/her then? |
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11 Dec 08 - 06:06 PM (#2513028) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Arkie If only there were someone smart enough and honest enough to actually oversee any industry, country, or action, I would not care what they were called. |
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11 Dec 08 - 06:54 PM (#2513077) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: McGrath of Harlow The real Czars weren't exactly a roaring success... If they've got to use a term which normally refers to disastrous dictators, why not delve into British history and revive the title "Lord Protector"? |
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11 Dec 08 - 07:17 PM (#2513094) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Genie Arkie: "If only there were someone smart enough and honest enough to actually oversee any industry, country, or action, I would not care what they were called." Good point. We could use some real competence and integrity like that. But I'd still object to the label. The way we label things affects (and reflects) how we conceptualize them, and I think in a democracy it's dangerous to encourage the citizens to think of themselves as peons being dictated to by some sort of ruler instead of seeing themselves as active participants in their government. |
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11 Dec 08 - 08:20 PM (#2513141) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Bobert Well, if not czar then what??? Holy Moly, we need new words... There are millions of CEO's, Directors, coorinators, chiefs, etc.... Seein' as my bud, Genie, started this thread I move to let her come up with a new word... Can I get a second??? B~ |
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11 Dec 08 - 08:21 PM (#2513143) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: John O'L Looks like you've opened a can of worms here, Alice. Are you ready for this? Czargate. |
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11 Dec 08 - 08:34 PM (#2513149) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Alice yup, I thought of the "...gate" think, too, but that does not bug me as much as "... Czar"!!! LOL |
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11 Dec 08 - 08:36 PM (#2513151) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Alice No, we don't need a new word. That's the point. "Director" is good enough. ... and Bobert, Genie didn't start the thread, I did. Alice |
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11 Dec 08 - 08:39 PM (#2513153) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: pdq ...I envision a new post for someone who oversees honey production: Bee Czar |
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11 Dec 08 - 08:49 PM (#2513157) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Bobert Okay, Alice, then you get to come up with the....drumbeat... ...new word 'cause director is old, old, old and worn slam out... B~ |
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11 Dec 08 - 08:51 PM (#2513158) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Alice Bobert, "Czar" is not a new word, either. |
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11 Dec 08 - 09:05 PM (#2513163) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Bobert No, Alice, but it's got more kick to it than "Director, CEO, Chief, etc"... I mean, we have run outta words that truely represent the seriousness of the job at hand... Even "President" is lame... So we need a whole bunch of new words... "Czar" still has a little--- okay, vey little--- sharpness to it... There are 1,312,672 "Directors" in American today... We need a change... B~ |
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11 Dec 08 - 09:35 PM (#2513174) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Alice But Czar is not the appropriate word to describe a public servant position in the USA. And why would you say we need to change the word just because there are other people called directors. That doesn't make sense. |
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11 Dec 08 - 09:38 PM (#2513177) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Alice here are a few ideas from the Thesaurus Drug Governor Drug Boss Drug Chief ... and Drug Skipper (which just makes me think of Gilligan) |
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11 Dec 08 - 09:41 PM (#2513180) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Alice It sounds like you expect the title to have to be "jazzed up". I don't think it does. It's a job. We just need someone to do it. The so called Drug Czars and Energy Czars so far have been failures. The Czar title did nothing productive. |
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11 Dec 08 - 10:41 PM (#2513193) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Bill D I don't think "Czar" is the official title of any job.....it's just media shorthand. You really want to take on the **MEDIA** about altering one of their prized phrases? |
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11 Dec 08 - 10:48 PM (#2513197) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: catspaw49 I want to oversee and test all the premium quality beef and be called the "Steak Czar-Czar".............................okay, I'm going.....Stop throwing things.............. Spaw |
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11 Dec 08 - 11:48 PM (#2513229) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: MarkS "Commissar" might be more appropriate. |
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11 Dec 08 - 11:54 PM (#2513232) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: John on the Sunset Coast Czar is appropriate, because once the government gives them power they can do nearly any damn thing they want to with impunity (and later, immunity?). |
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12 Dec 08 - 12:20 AM (#2513246) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Gurney Czar, Tsar, Tzar. They could ring the changes. |
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12 Dec 08 - 12:34 AM (#2513254) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Genie Maybe we could appoint someone to be in charge of that Indian clarified butter. Someone old enough to have decades of experience. He'd be our "Ghee Czar." Genie |
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12 Dec 08 - 12:40 AM (#2513256) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Genie Bobert, "There are 1,312,672 "Directors" in American today... We need a change..." I'll bet we have that many with the title of "Chairman." Same for "President." OK, how about: Drug Head Honcho Big Druk Muki Muk Main Drug Dude Drug Overseer Drug Emir Chief Drug Drudge |
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12 Dec 08 - 03:33 AM (#2513298) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: GUEST Chez Czar |
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12 Dec 08 - 03:54 AM (#2513309) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Darowyn You won't find many terms older than Czar. It's derived from Caius Julius, known as "Haircut" or Caesar. (probably pronounced Kaisar) He did pretty well in miltiary politics and his heirs and sucessors adopted his name with the result that it came to mean Emperor. The dominance of the Roman Empires passed the term to many other cultures, Via Greece to Russia, as 'Czar'. Via the Holy Roman Empire to Germany as 'Kaiser'. The Islamic ruler of what is now Turkey and the Balkans called himself 'Kaizar y Rhum"-Emperor of Rome. "Emperor", by the way comes from 'Imperator'- General, a title bestowed on a victorious commander by his surviving troops (happy at having survived). The traditional title for a ruler of many lands would be 'King of Kings' or 'High King'. Given all of this, it is clear that many of these titles would be unconstitutional in the USA, or treasonable in the UK. But the title of "The High King of Cars" or the "King of Drugs Kings" would look pretty impressive on your CV. Cheers Dave |
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12 Dec 08 - 06:40 AM (#2513365) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: McGrath of Harlow Fuhrer... |
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12 Dec 08 - 08:24 AM (#2513423) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Bobert Genie, I like "Dude"... Okay, it has some mileage on it but "Car Dude" has a nice ring to it... "Drug Dude" needs some work, however... But then again, "Health Dude" sounds cool and does "Energy Dude"""... Hey, how 'bout this one... "Defense Dude"??? "Fuhrer" ain't gonna work, McGee... Ain't ccol at all... B~ |
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13 Dec 08 - 02:20 AM (#2514094) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Genie Yeah, Bobert, "Führer" prolly wouldn't go over well with many people, but I'm not sure its connotations are way worse than "czar." I mean, if we're going for rhymes or alliteration, not to mention elevating our bureaucrats to kingly status, why stop with "Car Czar? Why not add some of these? Finance Führer Truk Muki Muk (I tried to post Big Drug Muki Muk above but I misspelled Drug.) Energy Emperor Kindergarten Khan Bomb Bastard Health Honcho Gun Shogun Interior Inquisitor Transportation Highway Rail Rajah Il Duce Of Defense (or Defense Dictator) Airline Autocrat Education Earl Poverty Poobah |
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13 Dec 08 - 09:12 AM (#2514240) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: McGrath of Harlow I assume it comes from newspapers wanting a nice short word. "Boss" would allowed that, but I suppose it's got associations with private criminal activities as well as big business, whereas "Czar" just has historical with analogous activities carried out by the State. "Chief" seems a pretty obvious substitute which has pretty neutral associations. |
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13 Dec 08 - 10:22 AM (#2514261) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Alice Well, we could be like Bush with his "decider" and call it the Car Fixer Drug Fixer Energy Fixer I still think "Director" is best, but Chief is not as bad as czar. |
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15 Dec 08 - 02:52 PM (#2516086) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Genie or just the "Drug Decider" -- except that we don't, or at least aren't supposed to, have any one "decider" in our country. Decisions are supposed to involve the legislature, the executive, and when necessary the judicial branches of government (with, supposedly, the 'press' watching all those folks to keep them honest). In reality, positions like "drug czar" or "car czar" in other democracies would probably just be called "drug Minister" or "Automotive Minister" (though I think it's important that our "Secretary Of Transportation" oversees more than just car and truck transportation). By looking for "czars" are we basically asking for more autocrats whose decisions can supersede those of Congress and the President and cabinet "Secretaries?" |
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15 Dec 08 - 04:21 PM (#2516167) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: McGrath of Harlow "Commissar" is really the most historically appropriate term. Or I suppose its American English version, "Commissioner". But they are both too long to be convenient for headlines. Perhaps Roma titles could be brought in - "Prefect" or "Tribune" come to mind. Or maybe "Monitor"... |
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15 Dec 08 - 04:42 PM (#2516183) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Ebbie "Perhaps Roma titles could be brought in - "Prefect" or "Tribune" come to mind." McGrath Good grief- for an instant I read that as 'Teribus'. As bb said above, I have heard it as 'AUTO-Crat' (Pronounced in the German way). |
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15 Dec 08 - 05:47 PM (#2516241) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: McGrath of Harlow "Fixer" would be quite good. |
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15 Dec 08 - 05:47 PM (#2516243) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Genie McGrath: ""Commissar" is really the most historically appropriate term. Or I suppose its American English version, "Commissioner". But they are both too long to be convenient for headlines." So now we're letting the media's convenience dictate how we characterize and think about the people's representatives in our democracy? |
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15 Dec 08 - 06:16 PM (#2516285) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Seamus Kennedy Il capo di tutti capi di cari. If this goes on much longer we'll have a 'czargate' scandal on our hands. |
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15 Dec 08 - 08:26 PM (#2516407) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Genie Rap, a catchy phrase does not "good" journalism make. |
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15 Dec 08 - 08:36 PM (#2516413) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Bobert I also like "fixer"... Says what 'sposed to happen... BTW, pot is like $75 a quarter... That's way too much and it needs a fixin'... B;~) |
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15 Dec 08 - 08:55 PM (#2516425) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Alice If it needs to be short, let's just use "Chief". The definition fits the job, and we already have it in common use in America.... Chief of Police, Commander in Chief, Chief of Staff, Chief Executive Officer, Editor in Chief, etc. Alice |
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15 Dec 08 - 09:10 PM (#2516435) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Genie "Chief" wouldn't be too bad. I mean they play "Hail to The Chief" for the President. But why is it that nobody seems to find the word "President" or the term "Secretary Of State" too long and cumbersome, yet somehow "Automotive Minister" is? |
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15 Dec 08 - 10:36 PM (#2516460) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: Rowan I do like Bruce's "CarCsar = Autocrat" and, while McGrath's "Monitor" has promise, to those of us in Oz it's really just a bloody great lizard; usually a goanna. But it has occurred to me that the credit crisis meltdown, with all those businesses knocked for sixes and sevens, that the wally in charge of regulating all that failed bizz should, properly, be called Bizzarre. Cheers, Rowan |
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16 Dec 08 - 01:08 AM (#2516523) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Czar is appropriate, given where we are going. It comes from the word 'Caesar', which of course is from the Roman empire...BTW..did you know the words 'Third Reich' literally means 'Third Roman Empire'?..Bet a lot of you astute scholars of history didn't know that, did you? Look it up. I hope it help explains where we are headed....Kumbayah! |
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16 Dec 08 - 01:43 PM (#2517010) Subject: RE: BS: enough with the 'Czar' label From: McGrath of Harlow "Monitor" has promise, to those of us in Oz it's really just a bloody great lizard; usually a goanna. Just the job, in other words. |