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22 Jun 99 - 06:33 AM (#88634) Subject: The Water is Wide From: murray@mpce.mq.edu.au I was trying to convince a friend of mine who is not particularly into folk music that he does know the tune "Waly Waly" because it was a popular folk song in the 60s. I would like to say, "You know xxx sand it." where xxx is one of the 60s folk "biggies" (Joan Baez, Peter Paul and Mary, etc.) Does anyone know which of them sang it. Thanks Murray Messages from multiple threads combined. Threads on this song:
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22 Jun 99 - 06:44 AM (#88636) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: Joe Offer Well, Murray, Folk Music: An Index to Recorded Sources isn't working this morning, so we're a bit crippled. Seems to me that Baez must have recorded it under one name or another. Peter, Paul and Mary called it There Is a Ship on their "In Concert" album. I wonder how many others we can come up with. I'd bet there are lots. -Joe Offer- |
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22 Jun 99 - 07:01 AM (#88641) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: Folksie Lady This happens to be one of my favorite folksongs. I sang it in a high school chorale and never forgot it. Does Karla Bonoff count? Or are we only searching for recordings by more "mainstream" artists? Karla has the loveliest version I've yet heard on her Restless Nights album. She's backed by none other than James Taylor. Folksie |
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22 Jun 99 - 07:28 AM (#88644) Subject: Lyr Add: THE RIVER IS WIDE (Kingston Trio) From: Joe Offer On their Make Way! album, the Kingston Trio say it was written by Nick Reynolds. They call it "The River Is Wide."
THE RIVER IS WIDE
CHORUS: The river is wide. I cannot see.
My love is like the lofty tree.
When love is young, then love is fine. |
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22 Jun 99 - 07:31 AM (#88645) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: Folksie Lady Ok, Joan Baez did sing it. It's on her "Very Early Joan" album. Pete Seeger discovered the song's charms many years after he began his singing career. It's on his recent album, "Pete." (and probably on others, too) |
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22 Jun 99 - 08:36 AM (#88653) Subject: Lyr Add: O WALY, WALY UP THE BANK From: Alan of Australia G'day, Professor Child, writing in 1890 (or earlier) says that "Waly, Waly" was known from the first quarter of the eighteenth century. This in his notes on "Jamie Douglas" (Child #204), where he points out the common ground between the former and several versions of the latter. Bronson says that Allan Ramsay was the first to publish it in Tea-Table Miscellany, c. 1724.
O waly, waly up the bank!
I leand my back unto an aik, |
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22 Jun 99 - 08:47 AM (#88657) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: Easy Rider Didn't the older brother, from the Ponderosa TV family also record this song? What was his name, not Hoss, the handsome one? What was the name of the show, starring Lorn Green? Mark hanson has a fingerstyle guitar arrangement of this song in his new book and on his Web site, EZR |
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22 Jun 99 - 09:05 AM (#88664) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: Art Thieme Burl Ives did "Waly Waly" throughout his career. But what does this mean? Is this where THE BLUES' sly references and double entendres come from? ;-)
I thrust my hand into some sweet bush, Art |
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22 Jun 99 - 09:21 AM (#88667) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: Roger in Baltimore Art, You know what they say, "Sometimes a telephone pole is just a telephone pole." Big RiB |
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22 Jun 99 - 10:00 AM (#88674) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: Jeri EZR, it was Bonanza and the older bro's name was Adam, played by Parnell Roberts(sp?) who later did the "Trapper John" TV show. I didn't know he recorded, but he sure has a nice speaking voice. |
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22 Jun 99 - 02:36 PM (#88744) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: emily rain thanks for mentioning james taylor, who does the loveliest version of this song that i've ever heard. it's on his "new moon shine". |
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22 Jun 99 - 02:56 PM (#88754) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: Night Owl Easy Rider...THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! for posting the link to Mark Hanson's web site...great place and I found the tab for "Water Is Wide". Another great song that I'd forgotten about for sharing at work. Wondering if I'll ever be able to sing it again without thinking about "telephone poles"!!! (giggle) |
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22 Jun 99 - 04:08 PM (#88790) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: Legal Eagle Ian Bruce does a song with a line - and - a - half "God bless my soul/I took that man for a telegraph pole". It's about a very tall Scotsman. |
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22 Jun 99 - 04:52 PM (#88807) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: katlaughing Parnell Roberts/Adam went on to sing opera...he's got a beautiful singing voice. Bet & I just sang "Early One Morning" at our debut gig. The first time either of us heard it was on Bonanza, when "Adam" sang it. kat |
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22 Jun 99 - 05:07 PM (#88810) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: Art Thieme And a telephone pole used to be a tree. An old tale from the N.W. section of California says that Paul Bunyan carved his own wife from a single Redwood Tree. And Paul died of a rare venereal disease---Terminal Slivers!!! When he fell, it was the FIRST California earthquake ever recorded. Art |
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22 Jun 99 - 05:34 PM (#88821) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: Penny S. I first heard this in a recording by Kathleen Ferrier, under the title "O Waly Waly", but without those words in it. Penny |
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22 Jun 99 - 05:42 PM (#88824) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: Joe Offer The song was recorded in the U.S. many times in the 1960's, but I don't recall hearing the "Waly Waly" verse until recently. I think maybe the verse wasn't considered 'marketable' in the '60's. Too foreign-sounding for the time, and it would have been mispronounced "Wally, Wally" in my home in the Midwest. -Joe Offer- |
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22 Jun 99 - 05:54 PM (#88829) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: Penny S. Ferrier was even earlier than that. And, I suppose, cross-over rather than folk. Penny |
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22 Jun 99 - 07:30 PM (#88869) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: I put my finger to the bush, thinking the sweetest Rose to find, I prickt my finger to the bone, and yet I left the rose behind ---by Martin Parker, The Distressed Virgin, 1629.
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22 Jun 99 - 09:23 PM (#88886) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: John Hindsill I have nine versions of this song from an instrumental in old English manner by Charlie Byrd to Carolyn Hester to Buffy Sainte-Marie with great jaws harp intro and exit, but not the same song as I can detect, but you in the biz might get the similarities. Also, the song probably will be on the CD of a local (LA-area) group called Five Wheel Drive who do a beautiful version in person. If they come to your town see them. FWD is country flavored, does a lot of original songs, and is fronted by three of the most gorgeous girl singers...being gorgeous doesn't make them good, but it couldn't hoit either.---John |
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22 Jun 99 - 10:30 PM (#88903) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: murray@mpce.mq.edu.au Thanks for the replies. I remember a lot of good versions; but my rules of the game were that the performance would be one even a non-folkie would have heard. You have given me a good list. Joe, thanks for that site, which I didn't know about. I was able to make contact with it, and have bookmarked it. Roger, sometimes a telephone pole is Alexander Graham Belsky. Murray |
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23 Jun 99 - 02:32 PM (#89074) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: Piepskopf@aol.com The song "Oh Waly Waly" was published by Esther and Abi Ofarim on their album "Ofarim Konzert live 1969" Philips Records. They name a certain "M. Okun" as author. The album was published in Germany. |
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23 Jun 99 - 02:58 PM (#89082) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - Waly, Waly From: Joe Offer Ah, Milt Okun wrote the song, eh? Milt was musical director for Peter, Paul and Mary and other 60's folk acts. I wonder how many centuries-old songs he copyrighted. This one and quite a few others, I'd reckon. Folk Music: An Index to Recorded Sources is up today, and has a long list of recordings of this song. -Joe Offer- |
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23 Jun 99 - 09:29 PM (#89210) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide From: dick greenhaus There's a very pretty Scots version that Burl Ives sangm and was popular in the late 40s hat began "When cockle shells turn silver bells...: One problem with folk recordings is that every version except the "righr one" tends to disappear. |
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22 May 02 - 06:42 PM (#715731) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: GUEST,Van Lingle The late Fred Neil did a great version of it. |
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22 May 02 - 11:34 PM (#715852) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: GUEST,crazy little woman Murray, if your friend is a Catholic, tell him the tune is used for "As the Deer Longs." He may know it. |
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06 Jan 03 - 10:06 PM (#860337) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Joe, in 1999, you say Nick Reynolds wrote The River is Wide, but I was looking for something else, and found this http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/newbonham/6/riveriswide.htm |
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06 Jan 03 - 10:42 PM (#860355) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: GUEST,Q Adding to George Seto's post: The Kingston Trio repeated the first verse at the end of the song. Leo's Lyrics also credits Ovid Young for the graceful lyrics. Lyr. Add: The River is Wide Lyrics: Ovid Young The river is wide, I cannot see Nor do I have light wings to fly There'll be a boat that can carry two And both shall row, my love and I. My love is like the lofty tree It shudders fears and then sways free If it should fade when the summer's through She'll bloom again when spring shines through. When love is young, then love is fine Just like a gem when first it's new But love grows old and waxes cold And fades away like the morning dew. The river is wide, I cannot see Nor do I have light wings to fly There'll be a boat that can carry two And both shall row, my love and I. www.leo's lyrics.com: River is Wide Ovid Young is a pianist and organist, better known for religious themes. Haven't found a date for this song yet. |
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06 Jan 03 - 10:46 PM (#860361) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: Malcolm Douglas One or other of those fellows changed a few words, I guess; but I'll bet they stuck to the Somerset tune. For some really detailed discussion and analysis of the Water is Wide branch of this song-family, though, see Water Is Wide - First American Version |
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06 Jan 03 - 10:47 PM (#860362) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: GUEST,Q Probably mistook an L for an I or a 1. But use the search and it will come up. |
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07 Jan 03 - 08:43 AM (#860592) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: John Minear Malcolm, The Nick Reynolds/Ovid Young (Kingston Trio) version does indeed use the Somerset tune. This happens to be the version that I heard first, a long time ago, and the one that I learned. I had forgotten where it came from until recently. Not surprizingly, it flows a bit more smoothly than some of the other folk revival versions. I would say that it is still the tune that makes all of this unique. T.O.M. |
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07 Jan 03 - 11:20 AM (#860712) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Malcolm, I spent all of Sunday afternoon going through ALL of the Mudcat's Water is Wide threads. It's been a complicated group of threads, since the same information is contained in most of them. Mostly thanks to yourself. Malcolm, we don't say this often enough, but THANKS! From the bottom of my heart, many many thanks for the informed posts you provide us with to learn from. It's always great to see a new posting from yourself in a thread I am interested in. Thanks Turtle Old Man for keeping this discussion going. Hope you get your answers as well. You seem to complement Malcolm's information well. Keep it up. |
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30 Oct 03 - 06:14 PM (#1044845) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: GUEST these are the lyrics (i sung the song in choir so i know the lyrics and the song is very good) The water is wide i can cross oer and neither have thuy wings to fly give me a boat that cn carry two and both shall row my love and i there is a ship and it sails the sea its loaded deep but not as deep as in love and i i care not if i live or die the water is wide (oh shenandoah) i cannot cross oer |
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31 Oct 03 - 07:09 AM (#1045173) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: GUEST,Tunesmith This has, I'm sure, been mentioned before, but "The Water is Wide" was used as the main - and reoccuring theme - in a relatively recent movie " The River Wild" ( I think that's the correct title. Also, there is a nice - if different - version of the song by Linda Ronstadt on saxophonist David Sandborn's album " Love Songs". |
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17 Feb 07 - 07:16 PM (#1971101) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: GUEST,Mary Does anyone have lyrics to the tune of Water is Wide that could be sung in church? |
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17 Feb 07 - 11:28 PM (#1971256) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: frogprince Mary, if you find this of interest, you're welcome to use it. Just let me know if you do, and whereabouts you are, just 'cause I'd like to know :) Dean |
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09 Feb 08 - 09:53 PM (#2258178) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: GUEST,Dave The Church lyric for this tune is titled the Gift of Love, by Hal Hobson Though I may speak with bravest fire, And have the gift to all inspire, And have not love, my words are vain, As sounding brass, and hopeless gain. Though I may give all I possess, And striving so my love profess, But not be given by love within, The profit soon turns strangely thin. Come, Spirit, come, our hearts control, Our spirits long to be made whole. Let inward love guide every deed; By this we worship, and are freed. I was looking for the Tune name. Is it Waly Waly? |
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10 Feb 08 - 04:15 PM (#2258783) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: Stringsinger What Pete didn't say about the song is that he developed his arrangement based on the accompaniment that was done for John Charles Thomas, a populr classical baritone in the 20's and 30's. This was the basis for my arrangement of the song which I taught to Karla Bonoff but was actually recorded by James Taylor who might have done something else with it. But Karla learned her arrangement from me and I learned it from Pete but changed it. This is the folk process they keep talking about. Frank Hamilton |
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11 Feb 08 - 02:00 PM (#2259619) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: GUEST,highlandman Church lyrics? Anything with an appropriately pensive mood that is listed as 8.8.8.8 in the hymnal index will fit. My wife and I sing "When I Survey The Wondrous Cross" to this tune, and it's always a grabber. -G |
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11 Feb 08 - 02:16 PM (#2259635) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: GUEST,Tom Bliss I just did a search for them and no-one seems to have answered Murray's initial question from 1999 (apologies if I've missed it). I'm fairly sure that the band who had the big hit with this song in the 60s was The Seekers - with Judith NOT taking the lead for once. I think that's Keith singing but I may be wrong. here And here is a version (eventually) with new lyrics by Anne Wooby relating to The Napoli |
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11 Feb 08 - 03:30 PM (#2259700) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: open mike or perhaps (as inspired by a recent boat thread) the water is narrow.... |
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11 Feb 08 - 04:14 PM (#2259749) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego I first learned this song circa 1958 and performed a version of it many times into the early 1960's. I wish I could still recall all of it, but here are two: "The water is wide, I cannot cross over, And neither have I wings to fly. Give me a boat, That can carry two, And both shall row, My love and I. I leaned my back, Up against a young oak, Thinking he was a trusty tree. But first he bent, And then he broke, Just as did my False love to me." I'd be willing to bet that Deckman or one of his fellow northwesterners can provide more. |
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22 Feb 08 - 03:55 PM (#2269802) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: Tootler From Allan of Australia, writing in 1999 Professor Child, writing in 1890 (or earlier) says that "Waly, Waly" was known from the first quarter of the eighteenth century. This in his notes on "Jamie Douglas" (Child #204), where he points out the common ground between the former and several versions of the latter. Bronson says that Allan Ramsay was the first to publish it in Tea-Table Miscellany, c. 1724. While searching for something else in the Bodleian Library Broadside collection, I came across a broadside from 1813 which contains "Waly, Waly" and attributes it to Allan Ramsay in the "Tea-Table Miscellany" the Bodleian catalogue details are as follows Sheet Title: The thistle Printer: Catnach, J. (London) Date: between 1813 and 1838 Imprint: Printed by J. Catnach, 2, Monmouth-court, 7 Dials Illus. Ballads on sheet: 17 Copies: Johnson Ballads fol. 28 The Broadside may be found here Not conclusive evidence, but indicative. |
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28 Apr 25 - 11:45 AM (#4221737) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: GUEST,keberoxu Thread Creep: I am just now reading the late Pat Conroy, whose nonfiction book The Water Is Wide is about teaching Gullah children on a barrier island off of South Carolina. Conroy got many letters about the book, especially after it was made into a Hollywood film. He got used to seeing the title turned into a mondegreen. He writes that his favorite was, The Water Is Wet. |
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28 Apr 25 - 01:17 PM (#4221744) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: GUEST,Ballyholme I’ve seen Roger McGuinn doing it. He says he “Beatleized” it. I’d say he crucified it. And wasn’t that Nick Reynolds a clever guy? Imagine him writing that great song. |
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28 Apr 25 - 04:23 PM (#4221753) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: The Sandman Joan Baez |
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28 Apr 25 - 04:31 PM (#4221756) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: leeneia A long time ago, I heard Martin Wyndham Reid (Reed?) O Waly Waly at a house concert. I'm not going to put quotes around song titles here. Makes the typing too picky. Here are the lyrics: When cockleshells turn silver bells, And mussels grow on ev’ry tree; When blooms a rose ’mid frost and snows Then will my false love prove true to me. Chorus (repeated after each verse): O waly, waly, ah, love it is bonnie A little while when first it’s new. But love grows old and waxes cold And fades away like the morning dew. Ah, had I wist, before I kissed That love could be so ill to win; I’d locked my heart in a box of oak And pinned it shut with a silver pin. O waly, waly... =============== All well and good. It's called Waly, Waly and it has the words 'Waly, waly' in it. Enter the old ballad collectors. They didn't seem to be interested in songs and singing; they were interested in language - lyrics, plots, symbols, rhymes. For them, though two songs had completely different tunes but the same topics, they were the same thing. When they encountered 'The Water is Wide' and heard many of the same words, they dubbed it Waly,Waly too. Never mind that the words 'waly, waly' never occurred and the tune was completely different. Also Waly Waly seems older and more highbrow. Few have ever heard of it, while thousands have sung the Water is Wide. As far as I'm concerned, the song that starts 'The water is wide' is The Water is Wide. Martin's song is Waly, Waly. |
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28 Apr 25 - 04:55 PM (#4221757) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: leeneia Here are some more verses I've heard for The Water is Wide. from Steve Goodman There is a ship, and she sails the sea; she's loaded deep as deep can be But not as deep as this love I'm in; I know not if I sink or swim. from Elly Ameling Down in the meadow the other day, a-gathring flowers both fine and gay, A-gathring flowers both red and blue, I little thought what love can do. ========================================== In an era where we want to save time and resources, why don't we all stop putting the apostrophe in ev'ry? Nobody pronounces the middle e in 'every'. Ditto the e in the middle of 'gathering.' |
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28 Apr 25 - 11:05 PM (#4221765) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: GerryM leeneia, there's a recording on Youtube of Martyn Wyndham-Read singing that song, it's at https://youtu.be/rqMEa_ueCnk?si=x8w3aGlqb5RJ8biu He calls it Cockleshells. |
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28 Apr 25 - 11:07 PM (#4221766) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: GerryM When Murray started this thread in 1999, he and I were colleagues in the Math Department at Macquarie University. He's gone, and I'm retired. |
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30 Apr 25 - 02:33 PM (#4221870) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: Georgiansilver By far my favourite version was made in 1964 by The Seekers..... I used to sing this in clubs in NW England in the 1970s. https://youtu.be/QOOjbKmSV1o?si=PWos4_NR0UIybC5U |
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30 Apr 25 - 03:31 PM (#4221877) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: Steve Gardham It may be stated on other threads, but not here, apparently. The song has long been a collection of commonplaces, 'floaters' in common parlance. Most of them can be traced back to at least the 17th century, which is why some confusion occurs between 'Water is Wide' and 'Waly Waly'. Laments, such as the many members of the Died for Love family, often accrue a large selection of these commonplaces. They sometimes get crystallised for a while such as the printing of Ramsay, but usually varied oral versions continue at the same time. |
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09 May 25 - 06:54 AM (#4222314) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: MaJoC the Filk > why don't we all stop putting the apostrophe in ev'ry? *Complain*: I use the apostrophe to remind myself when to sing "every" with two syllables, lest I inadvertently channel those who sing 'Enery The Eighth I Am in the original Venacular. |
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10 May 25 - 08:03 PM (#4222366) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: leeneia Gerogiansilver, thanks for the link to the Seekers' version. It's very fine. MaJoC: Okayeeeee |
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12 May 25 - 10:52 AM (#4222422) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: The Sandman The ballad "Waly, Waly" (also known as "The Water Is Wide" or "Jamie Douglas") is a folk song that is believed to be inspired by the unhappy marriage of James Douglas, 2nd Marquess of Douglas, and Lady Barbara Erskine. The song's lyrics recount the story of Douglas abruptly ending his marriage to Erskine after being told a rumor that she had been unfaithfu |
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12 May 25 - 11:21 AM (#4222428) Subject: RE: The Water is Wide - one more time! From: gillymor I play and sing Grey Funnel Line on guitar with my chums on fiddle and concertina, and we slip into an instrumental of Water is Wide for one verse and back into GFL. It works beautifully, all in D. |