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17 Jan 09 - 01:04 PM (#2541456) Subject: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Sleepy Rosie I found these notes online, taken from a workshop at the Folk South West Easter School (which has been recommended to me by another poster). I thought they might be of interest to other beginners like myself: Floor Singer Notes |
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17 Jan 09 - 01:13 PM (#2541464) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: GUEST There is also this advice from Hamish Currie's website. Floor singing for beginers regards Jake |
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17 Jan 09 - 02:35 PM (#2541530) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: open mike what's this mean? " Shandy is good for maximizing fluid intake " |
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17 Jan 09 - 02:40 PM (#2541536) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Sleepy Rosie Sounds like complicated sense to me. A way to have a 'drink' while not dehydrating yourself with too much alcohol?? |
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17 Jan 09 - 03:40 PM (#2541590) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: VirginiaTam what zactly is a floorsinger? amateur or paid? standing up or sitting down? |
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17 Jan 09 - 03:46 PM (#2541598) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Sleepy Rosie Heh, heh, you beat me to it! ;-) The notes are most sound... ...but what is a floorsinger? |
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17 Jan 09 - 03:49 PM (#2541604) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: John Routledge The two sets of notes contain great advice. Went to Folk SW Easter School last year. The atmosphere was wonderful. Already booked for 2009!! |
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17 Jan 09 - 04:07 PM (#2541625) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Sleepy Rosie It seems to me, further to comments about 'what a floorsinger is', that despite the title, these notes are pertinant to *anyone* wishing to sing, in however an informal a setting? Whether that be as a performer on stage, or within a less formal group situation. |
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17 Jan 09 - 04:29 PM (#2541640) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Richard Bridge A "Floorsinger" is explained in some of the notes linked to above. Those notes are mostly helpful. I would emphasise I think three things. 1. There will be others worse than you. Don't panic. That doesn't mean you don't need always to improve, but don't panic. 2. Pitch. If you play guitar find out exactly where you need the capo. Do NOT play it in G 'cos that's what the music said. If you are an unaccompanied singer, make sure you know the start note (and the next one) and get them off an instrument immediately before you start the song. It may help to be able to tell potential accompanists the key, too - but if you really really don't want accompaniment, say so. 3. Songs. These days you do not have to stick solely to folk songs (helps to have some idea about the 1954 definition and the US concept of contemporary folk eg Pete Seeger and the Weavers etc) but I think it is polite to demonstrate that you have some idea of what "folk" is and where it comes from even if you are going otherwise to do Dylan or acoustic Metallica. Sort of "paid my dues" type of ethos. So it may be good to make a point of doing at least one folk song. The joke about the bloke (see notes, links above) who said he didn't know any folk songs and then did "House of the Rising Sun" is that it (probably) is an American tradiional song, and so folk, even if he learned it off the Animals with Eric Burdon. |
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17 Jan 09 - 06:23 PM (#2541733) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Suegorgeous hey John, me too! and I do believe we may have been in the same small group... :) Fantastic course. |
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17 Jan 09 - 06:37 PM (#2541746) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Gurney Try to get to a Vin Garbutt gig, buy one of his CDs that have the intro's on, or look him up on the web. He is a professional, but I think he would be a perfect floorsinger, and probably once was. |
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17 Jan 09 - 07:27 PM (#2541769) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: GUEST,Richard Bridge elsewhere on his network No, I woeuld doubt whether VIn would have been a perfect floorsinger - not from the way his gigs are now laid out. He spends a huge amount of time talking. A floorsinger is expected to get on with it. |
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17 Jan 09 - 07:37 PM (#2541774) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: peregrina Like all art and performance, I don't think there's an 'ideal' floorsinger. People's tastes are so diverse--some people do not like the style or material of some technically excellent singers; some people are very moved by singers of a lower technical level who bring something unique to the song. You choose to go and pay based on whether the main act appeals and hope the floor singers will too. If you don't like one--well, it's only a few minutes and it's part of the inclusive, participatory culture of a club venue. |
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18 Jan 09 - 03:47 AM (#2541959) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: VirginiaTam "House of the Rising Sun" is that it (probably) is an American tradiional song I thought I read somewhere... probably here that it was first recorded in the 1940s, performed by a 16 year old girl, daughter of coalminer (would be cliche if she didn't predate Loretta Lynn) in Kentucky. Rising Sun being a brothel in Nawlinz to which the female subject of song would have to contract herself to pay for her husband's sin of gambling in same establishment. I have read also UK catters trying to give credit to English origins because Rising Sun is typical English pub name and that story dates back to England. Where's the proof? anyway back on topic... Floor singer - the key is practice practice practice. It helps to find ways to engage your audience. Like eye contact, providing some interesting info to song, cracking jokes about self or other known to group. For example Richard Bridge is a bit notorious for singing songs with high death count (the subject not the audience). All I have to say is nobody dies in this song and everyone knows what I am talking about, everyone giggles or sniggers, Richard gives me a pointed glare and rumbles something about "a" song he did in which no one died. Sorry Richard just borrowing scenario as an example of how to relax yourself and engage the audience. Anyway, the idea is that first impressions stick with people, so if you have them laughing or intersted before you stsrt to perform, then mistakes tend not to be remembered. Oh hell. Just have fun. |
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18 Jan 09 - 06:16 AM (#2542015) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Spleen Cringe Do NOT play it in G 'cos that's what the music said What's this "G" thing? Is it something to do with those books full of drawings of tadpoles? |
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18 Jan 09 - 06:19 AM (#2542018) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Sleepy Rosie I have a friend who always tunes his guitar to "the Key of Me", his timing is completely non-existant, but it's quite simply the best show in the world for unadulterated laughs. |
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18 Jan 09 - 07:50 AM (#2542060) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: G-Force My advice to the inexperienced is "get the key right". Practising quietly at home will mean you find yourself singing in far too low a key when you take your song out in public. Your audience may not be able to join in that chorus you've practised so hard. Practise in the highest key comfortable for your voice and remember it so you can ask for a note if you need it! Also, pitch the song so you can manage both the top and bottom notes comfortably. Some songs start low and then shoot up, leaving you with nowhere to go. Just think about the key before you start. New, unaccompanied singers can make a real hash of this. And then - just enjoy yourself and the audience will as well. |
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18 Jan 09 - 08:15 AM (#2542082) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Surreysinger Gosh ... looking back to Jake's posting of the Floorsinging for Beginners item, that takes me back a bit... all of that was composed of postings to uk.musicfolk in a thread started by Neil Corbett, who then ran the club at Bracknell,about ten or more years ago, when I first started lurking on here, and posting on ukmf ! And some very good, and sometimes quite witty advice there was too! As to Folk South West's Easter school ... yup! I've been to three - the first one in 2001, the second in 2002 and another in 2004 ... and I can't recommend them strongly enough, whether you be experienced or just starting out. The atmosphere is really friendly, supportive and helpful ... and they now even have them set up on full residential basis .. much better and more user friendly!!! In fact I think you could say I have them to thank for giving me the impetus to start research into a certain lady folksong collector, standing up and giving talks on her, and now launching into giving a full show with supporting music about her life and work !! If you have the chance to go to the Easter school, you really should ... |
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18 Jan 09 - 08:16 AM (#2542085) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Surreysinger By the way, I can't believe there is such a thing as an"ideal" floorsinger!!! Unless it's someone who can actually sing ? |
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18 Jan 09 - 09:03 AM (#2542115) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: breezy become a duplicate Pete Coe |
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18 Jan 09 - 09:13 AM (#2542125) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: evansakes Three important things to remember before you unleash yourself on an unsuspecting public. 1. Practice 2. Practice more 3. Practice again....till you can't get it wrong. |
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18 Jan 09 - 11:16 AM (#2542226) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Surreysinger hey Twickfolk ... you've discovered the secret of never going wrong then?? Care to pass it on ... I've been in need of that one for some years!!! :-) |
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18 Jan 09 - 04:22 PM (#2542505) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Artful Codger Have you tried virgin birth? |
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18 Jan 09 - 04:27 PM (#2542511) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Hamish Aw, Surreysinger, that's unfair. Twickfolk just meant, well, you already know what he meant. |
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18 Jan 09 - 06:23 PM (#2542614) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Surreysinger Errmmm ... keep practising? I was just hoping that somebody had discovered the secret to getting it right every time ... hey ho!! |
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18 Jan 09 - 10:16 PM (#2542743) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: GUEST,Jon I found willingness to help out, eg. an extra song if needed, not to get put out if floor spotswere few on a particular night, etc. were morethan ability or getting everything right. |
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19 Jan 09 - 03:59 AM (#2542827) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Sooz An amateur practices until he can get it right. A professional practices until he can't get it wrong. Most floor singers are amateurs! |
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19 Jan 09 - 04:14 AM (#2542833) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: GUEST,Jon I like the sentiment sooz but I don't agree with it in practice. I'm sure I can't be alone in witnessing a respected professional blanking completely on a song, or in hearing the odd questionable note in a tune, etc. I've tended to think that although they might make far fewer mistakes than some of us amateurs, the ability to recover quickly and easily from getting something wrong rather than to never ever get it wrong is one of their strengths. |
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19 Jan 09 - 04:15 AM (#2542834) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Marje I think Jon, above, has a good point about flexiblity. A good floorsinger will have spare songs in mind in case the singer before (or the paid guest!) does one of their songs or something too similar. It's also helpful to have a few very short songs in your repertoire so that if you sense that they're running behind time, you can keep your spot short and to the point. In any case, if you're doing two songs, it's only polite to follow a long song with a short one, so as not to hog the floor for too long. Best to leave 'em wanting more! I'm trying very hard to keep this positive and not whinge about bad floorsinging habits - I think we've done very well so far in this thread in that respect. Marje |
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19 Jan 09 - 05:09 AM (#2542864) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: GUEST,Jon Agreed,Marje. I think I could take it this far. You as the floorsinger may not have one of the posh titles such as "resident", "organiser", "mc", etc. but (as well as providing material for others to enjoy) can help (well I have mc'd on rare occasions in the past) in the juggling act that can be going on (eg. there were two floor singers at 8:30 when the club started, 45 minutes ran on the strength of that before a dozen turned up after 9:15) to try to give a balanced evening and give everyone a chance. You can be an important part of a team. |
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19 Jan 09 - 06:09 AM (#2542899) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Jack Blandiver First find yourself the ideal floor... |
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19 Jan 09 - 06:26 AM (#2542915) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Myrtle's cook and if you can, sing the songs you love and believe in, or which at least interest you. Only one thing worse than hearing a singer who sounds bored with their song and that's getting that feeling of boredham singing a song you felt you ought to sing... |
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19 Jan 09 - 06:45 AM (#2542926) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: The Vulgar Boatman Of course professionals get it wrong - that's just part of the risk of live performance, and nobody's immune. The game is to find out what makes you blank (mine is making eye contact with a member of the audience during a song), and make sure, as far as possible, that you don't do it. But...the risk factor is also part of what makes live music worth doing - the buzz, if you will. |
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19 Jan 09 - 06:52 AM (#2542929) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Will Fly But...the risk factor is also part of what makes live music worth doing - the buzz, if you will. Even more so so if part or all of your act contains some element of genuine improvisation. The joy and horror of playing jazz and some blues is always the anticipation of the solo to be played and the efforts to play something meaningful, interesting, musical - even, God help us - original! In any musical endeavour there's no substitute for constructive practice, practice and more practice. |
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19 Jan 09 - 07:08 AM (#2542943) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Phil Edwards Only one thing worse than hearing a singer who sounds bored with their song and that's getting that feeling of boredham singing a song you felt you ought to sing... My favourite song's entitled 'Boredom'... But anyway - when I was starting out as a regular floorsinger I had a very small list of songs that I was comfortable with. Most of them were traditional, some of them weren't, and one of them was "Between the wars". I never felt entirely comfortable with BTW - particularly the bit about moderation - and always had it as my backup song, number 3 on a list of two. I wasn't particularly pleased about the invasion of Iraq, but I have to admit I was glad to have an excuse to cross that song off the list. |
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19 Jan 09 - 07:17 AM (#2542948) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: GUEST,Jon Interesting angle, thanks for your approach. --- I seem to get involved in the pro vs am debates and seem to things differently to the way some others do. The big thing to me if I was booking (something I've never done)is not one of raw ability (I've seen frightening skills at all pro/am levels) nor some form of faultless human perfection but a reliability that is going to carry off maybe 2x45 minutes for me, solidly, knows different audiences, has some stage craft etc. It's a reliability that even if say I can have moments of inspiration can not carry. |
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19 Jan 09 - 08:55 AM (#2542999) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: breezy What Twick folk forgot to say was Please Practice etc I do like Sooz contribution So if you cant get it right, leave it. Its taken me years to learn some songs so I learn to be patient and I know the pro who refuses to sing a certain song in case they 'Hit a hurdle' so to speak. I have had a top pro go dry at our club and it was remarked upon, you see there are audience members who have higher expectations of performers than the performer themselves and critics can be unforgiving. Please rehearse it until you can go onto automatic pilot, then think about expression. but what do I know anyway? shurrup |
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19 Jan 09 - 09:30 AM (#2543021) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: the lemonade lady In my opinion it really helps if you don't put your finger in your ear, or close your eyes. Sal |
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19 Jan 09 - 09:42 AM (#2543031) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: GUEST,Richard Bridge It's really hard to play guitar with a finger in your ear. |
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19 Jan 09 - 10:27 AM (#2543061) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Sooz Actually, play within your limits so the audience doesn't know what they are is probably better advice. |
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19 Jan 09 - 10:49 AM (#2543077) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: Jack Blandiver Oh, I see now - the Ideal floorsinger... Time was I couldn't take folk music entirely straight, an approach to such matters which served as a suitable enrichment to the proceedings, though might have increased the general bafflement invariably attending my own contributions from the invariable more conservative-than-I audience. Long time since now though; last time I smoked anything stronger than tobacco was maybe 1991, and I managed to kick that on my 40th birthday (August 22nd 2001). But yes, it was Ideal for a time - communion with the inner demons that still might surface, depending on the choice of song of course, or beer. Maybe this links back to death of Folk Clubs thread because, try as I might, I still can't take folk music entirely sober; there is a particular portal that might open through which we pass to glimpse other levels of actuality, for such is the potency of Traditional Song, which is, of course, such a large part of its appeal. |
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20 Jan 09 - 02:41 AM (#2543707) Subject: RE: How to Become the 'Ideal' Floorsinger From: evansakes OK...I'll rephrase that. "Practice until you have at least a fair chance of getting it right" :-) |