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30 Jan 09 - 05:39 AM (#2552686) Subject: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: GUEST,Terry See - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/4389736/What-Shall-We-Do-With-A-Drunken-Sailor-lyrics-changed-to-remove-alcohol-references.html - For the new PC version of that well known shanty 'What shall we do with a GRUMPY PIRATE' Beware it will soon be illegal to hold folk clubs in pubs and singers will be prosecuted for performing under the influence of drink. The Copper Song Book will be the next victim with all reference to Ale struck out to be replaced with Orange Juice - try and make that scan. Terry |
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30 Jan 09 - 05:58 AM (#2552701) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: Flash Company Same story in The Mail. I will see if I can work up a few verses on 'What shall we do with the PC Council' FC |
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30 Jan 09 - 06:37 AM (#2552726) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: Marje I'm surprised they've left the chorus untouched. Has no one told them that "Hooray and up she rises" is a reference to effect of alcohol on the male physiology ("Brewer's Droop")? As it stands (so to speak) the song can be seen as a warning about the dangers of the demon drink, and doesn't glorify drinking in the way that many songs do. It may have escaped the attention of the censors that parents do already adapt this song - "What shall we do with the grumpy baby?" is a popular variant, to which members of the family like to improvise verses. Marje |
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30 Jan 09 - 06:51 AM (#2552733) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: Sleepy Rosie What's daft about this, is that Piracy involving such fun kids stuff as robbery and murder, was a bloody nasty violent business (despite Johnny Dep). And murdering people by drowning them off the end of a plank, ain't so sweet and light either... Kinda puts 'drunken sailors' in a less socially disturbing light when compared to the "safe for children" PC version. What a bunch of numbnuts! |
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30 Jan 09 - 06:52 AM (#2552734) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: Musket Luckily, the story runs in The Daily Mail. Therefore, it is physically impossible for it to be true... I suppose folk songs go the same way as cigarette advertising. If it can be shown to be heritage rather than commercial, it is ok. Hence Edwardian cigarette adverts on metal sheets can still be put up as decorations in pubs Presumably, traditional songs fall into the same category, if the PC brigade have a go? (When I look at some of the comedy songs I used to sing over the years, such as The Vicar & the Frog, you wonder what you could be accused of promoting!!) |
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30 Jan 09 - 08:52 AM (#2552817) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: Nigel Parsons But the write-up gives the excuse that it was changed to tie in with a 'pirate theme'. Replacing 'drunken' with 'grumpy' should have been unnecessary, the scansion and emphasis remains the same. Sounds to me like someone who's been caught out trying to invent a plausible excuse for their political correctness! |
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30 Jan 09 - 09:27 AM (#2552845) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: TheSnail I've heard that there is a song taught in primary schools that goes - Do your ears hang low? Can you swing 'em to and fro? I'd love to be there when, as teenagers, those children find out the real words. |
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30 Jan 09 - 09:43 AM (#2552860) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: curmudgeon "Hooray and up she rises" is a reference to effect of alcohol on the male physiology..." Sorry Marje, just isn't true; just another bit of urban folklore conjured up by an idiot. Surely no sailor, or any other self respecting male would refer to his "John Thomas" by way of a feminine pronoun. This thread puts me in mind of a piece Pete Seeger wrote many years ago in Sing Out! concerning another shanty in a school book whose title and theme had been emasculated to "Smiling Johnny." A curse on all bowdlerisers - Tom |
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30 Jan 09 - 09:57 AM (#2552871) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: greg stephens The most interesting thing in the original article was the statement that "What shall we do with the drunken sailor" was written in 1891. When you consider the endless arguments on the origins of folksongs that occur here and elsewhere, how reassuring to have an incontrovertible fact. It must be true, it was in the Telegraph. |
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30 Jan 09 - 10:32 AM (#2552903) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: Midchuck I've heard that there is a song taught in primary schools that goes - Do your ears hang low? Can you swing 'em to and fro? I'd love to be there when, as teenagers, those children find out the real words. About 45 years ago, I, following my second year at college, had a job as a counselor at a boys' camp. The camp leader started the kids singing that song with those words, and I lost it and broke up - almost got fired. Peter |
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30 Jan 09 - 11:05 AM (#2552935) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine I take all these stories with a big pinch of salt. Someone's written some new words for an old song. Big deal, it happens all the time. Kids do it, nurseries and playgroups throughout the land sing countless variations of well-known songs. One of the few examples of a genuinely popular living tradition in our society, I'd say. The article in question sounds more like a piece of opportunism from the "Campaign For Real Education" whose agenda no doubt appeals to the kind of papers that thrive on headlines such as "Hospital Bans Hot Cross Buns Because They Offend Muslims", "Loony Council Bans Christmas" and "School Bans The Word 'School'" I totally agree by the way, that there's nothing PC about pirates. |
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30 Jan 09 - 11:18 AM (#2552953) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: Bryn Pugh Orange juice, orange juice, glorious orange juice ! Served in small glasses. it's no fucking use. Some folks like radishes, some curly kale But give I boiled parsnips and a gurt dish of taters And a lump of kosher bacon and the excuse For a pint of orange juice ! Hamish Imlach will spin in his grave. We will be allowed to leave in the bit about Cod Liver Oil - good for the brain, innit. |
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30 Jan 09 - 11:24 AM (#2552957) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: SINSULL Hey Jig-a-jig Kiss a little pig nearly brought Micca and John Roberts to their knees with laughter. A Getaway moment. |
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30 Jan 09 - 11:24 AM (#2552958) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: Musket When Jones ginger beer was new, me boys! Rhyme and meter didn't have a clue.. |
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30 Jan 09 - 09:06 PM (#2553347) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: Charley Noble Oh dear! Well. sometimes we used to sing alternative words to "Frigging in the Rigging" in mixed company, but we found them just as hilarious. We knew what the real words were and we waited patiently for one of our group to blurt out the real words. Cheerily, Charley Noble, with fuck'll else to do |
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30 Jan 09 - 09:52 PM (#2553377) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: Gurney Bryn and Ian, I've half a mind to develop your 'suggestions' and sing them at the next festival! Mind you, some say half a mind is an exaggeration. |
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31 Jan 09 - 02:07 AM (#2553461) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: VirginiaTam Oh god the Daily Tail and the Meleegraph AGAIN! Le sigh. Don't pay them any mind. |
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31 Jan 09 - 03:42 AM (#2553477) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: Weasel Daily Mail - more fun than the Dandy! |
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31 Jan 09 - 05:22 AM (#2553519) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: rich-joy My first thought, when I saw this thread title about yet more Poxy PC Pontifications, was the Rolf Harris gem, the chorus of which runs : "Well, I never gargled. I never gambled. I never smoked at all. Until I met my two good amigos, Nick Teen and Al K. Hall." The lyrics are in this thread : http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=435&messages=12 LOL! Cheers! R-J |
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31 Jan 09 - 07:19 AM (#2553558) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: Cllr i saw this on the bbc and started a thread hopefully someone will combine the two. As previously mentioned Captain Jack Sparrow would have said "But why is the rum gone?" Cllr |
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31 Jan 09 - 07:24 AM (#2553562) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: Cllr can we expect a song such about Be3Al2(SiO3) "Bring us a Beryll" maybe not... Cllr |
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03 Feb 09 - 06:07 AM (#2555970) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: Bryn Pugh And they called for their pints of milk and cordial (blackberry) To help them over the hills, not merry (bis) When Adam's ale was new, me boys - (Omnes, pianissimo) When Adam's ale was new. Let back and sides go clothed, go clothed, Let hands and feet go warm. But belly, God send thee lemonade enough That'll do the body no harm. |
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03 Feb 09 - 06:20 AM (#2555975) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: GUEST,Mr Red call me "one track mind" but shanties are all about double triple and if you can find it quadruple entendre. "Hooray and up she rises" Hmmmmmmmm - is it a halyard raising reference? Apparently doubtful, but good enough for the PC Police. Is it a brewers droop? Not that obvious to me. Is it a phallic reference? Well strap me barnicles, I would never have thought that sailors devoid of female company for long periods would turn their minds to sex. So it must be all about financial investments - they can go up or down though. I've said it many times - more than one meaning is not only intended, it is almost universal in shanties. The only question is do we, in the 21st century, have the references to tease out all the implications? Cetainly in my songs double entendre can be intended and accidental, but a quadruple entendre in one rolling line, is carefully crafted. |
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03 Feb 09 - 08:55 AM (#2556088) Subject: RE: Alcohol - PC correct songs From: Fidjit Hmmm. Reminds me of Pat Boone and his, "Hiding French Letters in the Sand" Chas |