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12 Feb 09 - 01:33 PM (#2565110) Subject: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: kendall On this date in 1809 a legend was born. Abraham Lincoln, the most popular president in our history. He is credited with freeing the slaves, but like many urban legends, it is not true. After the battle of Antietam, which ended in a stalemate, he decided to make life more difficult for the Confederacy by issuing the Emancipation Proclamation which "freed the slaves" that were under the control of the Confederacy. It did not apply to the border states, and it did not have the desired effect either. He hoped it would encourage the slaves to rise up and create another front for the confederacy to deal with. What freed the slaves was the 13th amendment which congress passed after Lincoln's death.He was not a racist, and his reason for going to war was to preserve the union. That battle convinced England to not enter the war on the side of the south Old beliefs die hard. |
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12 Feb 09 - 01:54 PM (#2565136) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: John on the Sunset Coast While it's true the 13th Amendment, passed after Lincoln's death, freed all slaves, the thrust of your comment, IMO, unfairly diminishes his role in the abolution of our the 'national shame'. This from Wikipedia: "President Lincoln took an active role to ensure its [the 13th Amend.] passage through the House by ensuring the amendment was added to the Republican Party platform for the upcoming Presidential elections. His efforts came to fruition when the House passed the bill in January 1865, by a vote of 119 to 56. The Thirteenth Amendment's archival copy bears an apparent Presidential signature, under the usual ones of the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate." |
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12 Feb 09 - 02:37 PM (#2565187) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: Rapparee Kendall, it was 1809. It's Abe's 200th birthday, just like mine yesterday. He violated the Constitution by suspending Habeas Corpus and taking property (freeing slaves) without due process. A decent chap, though, and good President -- one with moral and physical courage. |
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12 Feb 09 - 02:40 PM (#2565191) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: Rapparee And I must say, as they sang in "Hair": Happy birthday, Abie Baby, Happy birthday to you...YEAH. |
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12 Feb 09 - 02:44 PM (#2565194) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: Big Mick The fact is, Lincoln was not anti-slavery as much as he was pro preserving the Union. He said early on that if keeping slavery kept the Union intact he would keep slavery. To understand his greatness, one must understand his journey from that time to the Emancipation Proclamation and then on to the 13th Amendment. When one looks at that journey and how he came to that point, then we understand why he was perhaps our greatest President. All the best, Mick |
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12 Feb 09 - 02:53 PM (#2565202) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: gnu I recall a discussion about slavery while at uni 30 years ago. I remarked that Canada had none. The next day, I was given a photocopy of an advert in the Fredericton, New Brunswick newspaper (cannot recall the date - early 1800s) for the sale of a "negroe buck". I was taken aback. I know little of the history. Just grateful somebody got it straightened out. |
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12 Feb 09 - 02:58 PM (#2565209) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: GUEST,Jts Actually you were correct gnu. Canada did not exist until 1867. Long after slavery was abolished in the British Empire. |
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12 Feb 09 - 03:33 PM (#2565242) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: kendall 1809 is correct. |
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12 Feb 09 - 03:42 PM (#2565249) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: kendall The 13th amendment was ratified in December of 1865, 8 months after Lincoln died. |
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12 Feb 09 - 03:44 PM (#2565251) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: gnu Technical point, Jack.... yes, I know Canada's birth date. |
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12 Feb 09 - 05:27 PM (#2565329) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: Genie It's also Charles Darwin's 200th birthday - and the 100th birthday of the N A A C P. Happy birthday to all 3! |
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12 Feb 09 - 05:33 PM (#2565333) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: robomatic Kendall you can't win for losin'. It's the 200th anniversary of Abe Lincoln's birth (within a couple of hours of St. Chuck)and you now only foul that up, you call him the most popular presidents, which is rather less than the truth. While he was alive he went through periods of being least popular, and there are still many alive today who term him a war criminal, as did his assassin. For my money, Lincoln looms as large as any human can. He brought courage together with temperateness, humility with stridency, great intelligence with plain-spokeness. There would be no United States without him. He is one of the all time great human beings irrespective of nationality. If the United States has ever to justify its purpose through its people, Abe would suffice. |
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12 Feb 09 - 06:10 PM (#2565365) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: John on the Sunset Coast Kendall, you seem fixated on the fact that the 13th Amendment was passed after Lincoln's death. I have shown you that he was actively working on the 13th at the time he was murdered. It is not his fault he was killed too soon, nor does the postmortem passage diminish his work in freeing the slaves. --------------------------------- BigMick, re your comment: Lincoln was a politican and had to work, towards total abolition as he could through the war. Lincoln was very anti-slavery, whose election was the proximate cause of the secession of South Carolina, and the South. As it happens, while driving this p.m., I heard an interview with Michael Burlingame, who wrote a new (I think) biography, "A. Lincoln: A Live". Two points struck me: the Lincoln family moved from Indiana to Illinois so as to not be in a slave area; in an 1859 letter to a politician, he noted the next president would have to be an anti-slavery leader. Those, of course are not MB's exact words, but I was driving. I believe that both in the context of his period, hispresidency and the backward look of history, President Lincoln is the greatest president we've ever had, warts and all...and second place isn't even close. |
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12 Feb 09 - 06:32 PM (#2565396) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: Rapparee I quite agree on his greatness. But I'm not sure I agree with the reason for his family moving from Indiana (a free state) to Illinois (a free state). Perhaps moving from Kentucky (a slave state) to Indiana.... |
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12 Feb 09 - 08:17 PM (#2565489) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: John on the Sunset Coast Rapaire, I only pass on what the guy said...and as best as I can tell, there must have been some little pro-slave sentiment in southern Indana during the ante-bellum period. I plan to get the book at the library as soon as I finish taxes, and three books I'm workin' on now. I'll report back if I do |
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12 Feb 09 - 09:25 PM (#2565531) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: kendall I know he was about as popular as a wet dog at a wedding in his day! I'm talking about NOW. He is consistently voted the greatest president in our history. Stop reading between the lines. The 13th amendment was ratified AFTER his death. Thats all I said. It did not become law until it was ratified. In my opinion he was or is the greatest president of all. Now, find fault with that. |
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12 Feb 09 - 09:29 PM (#2565537) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: kendall Also, I knew I hit the wrong keys when I posted 1803 instead of 1809. Let me up willya? Typing is an unnatural act for me. Maybe some clone will fix it so you can sleep tonight. Jeez. |
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12 Feb 09 - 09:56 PM (#2565553) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: katlaughing It's not online, yet, but President Obama made a terrific speech, tonight, at the Lincoln Association in Springfield, IL. It was outstanding. |
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12 Feb 09 - 10:09 PM (#2565565) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: John on the Sunset Coast Kendall, sorry if I read too much into your posts. It's one of the hazards of short writings, as compared with face to face dialogue, where one can hear vocal inflection and see body language. |
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13 Feb 09 - 09:19 AM (#2565855) Subject: RE: BS: Happy birthday Abe From: kendall Sorry accepted. This is a very limited way to communicate and much gets lost in the translation. It's natural to read between the lines, but I like to think that whatever I post is is exactly what I mean, no more, no less. I'm a bit touchy these past few days, I have 4 right wing friends who are all on my case for one thing or another and it is hard to keep ahead of all of them. |